' POLL ' How would you vote on eu today?

Most 12 year olds know Wales could not be independent and stay in the EU. We would have to have a central bank and currency, and would lose £14 Billion pounds every year, given to us by WestMinster.

BlueGog/Luke - where is the £14BN we lose every year, going to come from?

Also, increasing immigration is a possibility if we left, but the important point is we could control who comes in, what they do, and when they leave. How many foreign Big Issue sellers do we require?

On the other hand, skilled immigrants coming here means that advantages gained by Britain, are lost to the host country, thus maintaining lower growth etc in that place.

There has been a huge cost to Polish GDP as a result of emigration.

And more worryingly, they're able to swing the polls in the Eurovision song contest....

Your too sensible I would love an independent Wales but I know that we couldn't do that at the moment ,the reason we get money from the eu is coz we as Britain pay a lot in if Wales went independent we wouldn't be able to pay anything in so how would we get money if not from the eu or Westminster ?

You want money off the eu now?? This terrible organisation you want leave, I told this would happen in previous posts if we became independent we soon want part of the eu. Let's not rock the boat and put future wales in jeopardy because if England want out of uk. Like some want out of eu because of cost then gues what wales is a cost to England we wod be next on the leave list. Open you eyes and becareful what you wish for.

I don't want money off them read the post if we were independent how would we fund ourselfs? I'm replying to a person who wants independence

We can't fund ourselves to that level. So we need hand outs from eu or Westminster. If we out of eu then there only Westminster. If they ever vote to leave us we have no one. We need to be part of a bigger state fact. Why anyone in wales would risk our countries future is beyond me. We start playing with fire we will get burned. You know what England will survive as a stand alone country, the eu will survive with with out the uk. Wales won't survive in it's current very privileged state with out either of the said two.
Wales depends on being part of a bigger state.

I agree we need to be part of Westminster but we definitely don't need to be part of the eu,the eu has over the last 30 years ruined Wales,manufacturing industry,farming industry steel industry all but gone and that's down to the eu !

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I always thought that it was the Tories under Thatcher who started dismantling our manufacturing industries - coal, steel, auto, etc. Didn't they do this and set up banking as the UK's main 'industry'. What Thatcher started, Labour under Blair continued. That's what I was taught at school. Did they get history wrong? What did the EU have to do with it? You really have been brain washed haven't you. But then that's what happened before the war isn't it - a banking crisis and depression, the rise of the right throughout Europe - a brainwashed public who turned a blind eye, lets just hope the history is not repeating itself

So the Japanese Korean and German companies the likes of Sony Panasonic,Grundig Hitachi etc didn't leave for Poland and other eastern European countries as soon as theyou joined the eu ?the likes of Belgium get bigger fishing quotas than the uk and fish in our waters ,farmers get paid not to farm instead of selling our goods to the rest of the world ,I don't think you live in the real world

Most 12 year olds know Wales could not be independent and stay in the EU. We would have to have a central bank and currency, and would lose £14 Billion pounds every year, given to us by WestMinster.

BlueGog/Luke - where is the £14BN we lose every year, going to come from?

Also, increasing immigration is a possibility if we left, but the important point is we could control who comes in, what they do, and when they leave. How many foreign Big Issue sellers do we require?

On the other hand, skilled immigrants coming here means that advantages gained by Britain, are lost to the host country, thus maintaining lower growth etc in that place.

There has been a huge cost to Polish GDP as a result of emigration.

And more worryingly, they're able to swing the polls in the Eurovision song contest....

Your too sensible I would love an independent Wales but I know that we couldn't do that at the moment ,the reason we get money from the eu is coz we as Britain pay a lot in if Wales went independent we wouldn't be able to pay anything in so how would we get money if not from the eu or Westminster ?

You want money off the eu now?? This terrible organisation you want leave, I told this would happen in previous posts if we became independent we soon want part of the eu. Let's not rock the boat and put future wales in jeopardy because if England want out of uk. Like some want out of eu because of cost then gues what wales is a cost to England we wod be next on the leave list. Open you eyes and becareful what you wish for.

I don't want money off them read the post if we were independent how would we fund ourselfs? I'm replying to a person who wants independence

We can't fund ourselves to that level. So we need hand outs from eu or Westminster. If we out of eu then there only Westminster. If they ever vote to leave us we have no one. We need to be part of a bigger state fact. Why anyone in wales would risk our countries future is beyond me. We start playing with fire we will get burned. You know what England will survive as a stand alone country, the eu will survive with with out the uk. Wales won't survive in it's current very privileged state with out either of the said two.
Wales depends on being part of a bigger state.

I agree we need to be part of Westminster but we definitely don't need to be part of the eu,the eu has over the last 30 years ruined Wales,manufacturing industry,farming industry steel industry all but gone and that's down to the eu !

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I always thought that it was the Tories under Thatcher who started dismantling our manufacturing industries - coal, steel, auto, etc. Didn't they do this and set up banking as the UK's main 'industry'. What Thatcher started, Labour under Blair continued. That's what I was taught at school. Did they get history wrong? What did the EU have to do with it? You really have been brain washed haven't you. But then that's what happened before the war isn't it - a banking crisis and depression, the rise of the right throughout Europe - a brainwashed public who turned a blind eye, lets just hope the history is not repeating itself

So the Japanese Korean and German companies the likes of Sony Panasonic,Grundig Hitachi etc didn't leave for Poland and other eastern European countries as soon as theyou joined the eu ?the likes of Belgium get bigger fishing quotas than the uk and fish in our waters ,farmers get paid not to farm instead of selling our goods to the rest of the world ,I don't think you live in the real world

I think you'll find that the reasons these companies left was to do with a cheaper workforce- less wages to pay and nothing to do with the EU.

Most 12 year olds know Wales could not be independent and stay in the EU. We would have to have a central bank and currency, and would lose £14 Billion pounds every year, given to us by WestMinster.

BlueGog/Luke - where is the £14BN we lose every year, going to come from?

Also, increasing immigration is a possibility if we left, but the important point is we could control who comes in, what they do, and when they leave. How many foreign Big Issue sellers do we require?

On the other hand, skilled immigrants coming here means that advantages gained by Britain, are lost to the host country, thus maintaining lower growth etc in that place.

There has been a huge cost to Polish GDP as a result of emigration.

And more worryingly, they're able to swing the polls in the Eurovision song contest....

Your too sensible I would love an independent Wales but I know that we couldn't do that at the moment ,the reason we get money from the eu is coz we as Britain pay a lot in if Wales went independent we wouldn't be able to pay anything in so how would we get money if not from the eu or Westminster ?

You want money off the eu now?? This terrible organisation you want leave, I told this would happen in previous posts if we became independent we soon want part of the eu. Let's not rock the boat and put future wales in jeopardy because if England want out of uk. Like some want out of eu because of cost then gues what wales is a cost to England we wod be next on the leave list. Open you eyes and becareful what you wish for.

I don't want money off them read the post if we were independent how would we fund ourselfs? I'm replying to a person who wants independence

We can't fund ourselves to that level. So we need hand outs from eu or Westminster. If we out of eu then there only Westminster. If they ever vote to leave us we have no one. We need to be part of a bigger state fact. Why anyone in wales would risk our countries future is beyond me. We start playing with fire we will get burned. You know what England will survive as a stand alone country, the eu will survive with with out the uk. Wales won't survive in it's current very privileged state with out either of the said two.
Wales depends on being part of a bigger state.

I agree we need to be part of Westminster but we definitely don't need to be part of the eu,the eu has over the last 30 years ruined Wales,manufacturing industry,farming industry steel industry all but gone and that's down to the eu !

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I always thought that it was the Tories under Thatcher who started dismantling our manufacturing industries - coal, steel, auto, etc. Didn't they do this and set up banking as the UK's main 'industry'. What Thatcher started, Labour under Blair continued. That's what I was taught at school. Did they get history wrong? What did the EU have to do with it? You really have been brain washed haven't you. But then that's what happened before the war isn't it - a banking crisis and depression, the rise of the right throughout Europe - a brainwashed public who turned a blind eye, lets just hope the history is not repeating itself

So the Japanese Korean and German companies the likes of Sony Panasonic,Grundig Hitachi etc didn't leave for Poland and other eastern European countries as soon as theyou joined the eu ?the likes of Belgium get bigger fishing quotas than the uk and fish in our waters ,farmers get paid not to farm instead of selling our goods to the rest of the world ,I don't think you live in the real world

I think you'll find that the reasons these companies left was to do with a cheaper workforce- less wages to pay and nothing to do with the EU.

If these countries weren't let into the eu then they wouldn't of moved and that's a fact ! The eu has been the death of Wales and people like you are brainwashed into thinking it's good for us ,we have become one of the poorest nations in the eu and that's is down to labour and the eu

Haha. I win. Nothing to offer now my little angel other than personal insults. Sums you up. My little petal.

I'm sure you are completely heterosexual. And I'm sure you sure just confirming it by announcing it I'm sure.

When they resort to insults you know you've won.He's just a closet racist.

Waste of money

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The UK's official EU budget is about £350 million a week. That’s about the same as the cost of building a new NHS hospital every week. We get less than half of this money back, and we have no control over how it’s spent – that’s decided by politicians and officials in Brussels, not the people we elect here.

The current state of the EU has long passed its purpose.

It is heading towards a truly shocking end due to bureaucracy.

Despite this, it does not want to reform itself due to self interest.

There are no objective financial or security arguments for us to remain as a member of the status quo, except those with a narrow self interest.

Whilst being an EU member, Britain specifically chose to stay out of the euro and Schengen passport fee zones which are the EU's two greatest mistakes.

So after all considerations, I believe that Britain leaving will be not only good for Britain bit also for 'Europe', as it will be the catalyst for the current failed bureaucratic 'union' to finally collapse and then be reformed with us taking the lead.

The current state of the EU has long passed its purpose.

It is heading towards a truly shocking end due to bureaucracy.

Despite this, it does not want to reform itself due to self interest.

There are no objective financial or security arguments for us to remain as a member of the status quo, except those with a narrow self interest.

Whilst being an EU member, Britain specifically chose to stay out of the euro and Schengen passport fee zones which are the EU's two greatest mistakes.

So after all considerations, I believe that Britain leaving will be not only good for Britain bit also for 'Europe', as it will be the catalyst for the current failed bureaucratic 'union' to finally collapse and then be reformed with us taking the lead.

BOOM !!

Haha. I win. Nothing to offer now my little angel other than personal insults. Sums you up. My little petal.

I'm sure you are completely heterosexual. And I'm sure you sure just confirming it by announcing it I'm sure.

When they resort to insults you know you've won.He's just a closet racist.

You assumed I'm a racist so it must be right for me to assume you're a communist... Utter nonsense

Haha. I win. Nothing to offer now my little angel other than personal insults. Sums you up. My little petal.

I'm sure you are completely heterosexual. And I'm sure you sure just confirming it by announcing it I'm sure.

When they resort to insults you know you've won.He's just a closet racist.

You assumed I'm a racist so it must be right for me to assume you're a communist... Utter nonsense

Angelis, you know when you have won, when they start calling you a racist. It seems to them that is the worst insult you can make.
But strangely they seem to support the Labour party and socialism, the biggest racist, anti-semitic, bigoted party in the country. With leaders who openly support terrorism and terrorists.

Most 12 year olds know Wales could not be independent and stay in the EU. We would have to have a central bank and currency, and would lose £14 Billion pounds every year, given to us by WestMinster.

BlueGog/Luke - where is the £14BN we lose every year, going to come from?

Also, increasing immigration is a possibility if we left, but the important point is we could control who comes in, what they do, and when they leave. How many foreign Big Issue sellers do we require?

On the other hand, skilled immigrants coming here means that advantages gained by Britain, are lost to the host country, thus maintaining lower growth etc in that place.

There has been a huge cost to Polish GDP as a result of emigration.

And more worryingly, they're able to swing the polls in the Eurovision song contest....

Your too sensible I would love an independent Wales but I know that we couldn't do that at the moment ,the reason we get money from the eu is coz we as Britain pay a lot in if Wales went independent we wouldn't be able to pay anything in so how would we get money if not from the eu or Westminster ?

You want money off the eu now?? This terrible organisation you want leave, I told this would happen in previous posts if we became independent we soon want part of the eu. Let's not rock the boat and put future wales in jeopardy because if England want out of uk. Like some want out of eu because of cost then gues what wales is a cost to England we wod be next on the leave list. Open you eyes and becareful what you wish for.

I don't want money off them read the post if we were independent how would we fund ourselfs? I'm replying to a person who wants independence

We can't fund ourselves to that level. So we need hand outs from eu or Westminster. If we out of eu then there only Westminster. If they ever vote to leave us we have no one. We need to be part of a bigger state fact. Why anyone in wales would risk our countries future is beyond me. We start playing with fire we will get burned. You know what England will survive as a stand alone country, the eu will survive with with out the uk. Wales won't survive in it's current very privileged state with out either of the said two.
Wales depends on being part of a bigger state.

I agree we need to be part of Westminster but we definitely don't need to be part of the eu,the eu has over the last 30 years ruined Wales,manufacturing industry,farming industry steel industry all but gone and that's down to the eu !

Do you work in the agricultural sector then Wez? i.e. Farming? I do. If you did then you would know the industry receives around 2.5 to 3 billion a year from Brussels. How would we fund that then? Just curious as you mentioned that the EU has ruined farming when I can say for one I'm glad we're in the EU as the (BPS) Basic Payment Scheme would be sorley missed if we opted out.

Fairwater, as you are a farmer, could I ask some questions about all these grants that the farming industry receives? Why do they get them (many farmers complain about all the paper work/computer data they have to do)? Why do they need them, as surely a good business should not be based on handouts, to keep it going? Why can't other businesses have the same handouts to sustain what (from the outside) looks like failing businesses?
I suspect it is because the French, their farming industry and the EU CAP, have turned our farmers into handout survivors, not actual producers of sustainable businesses.
I heard the French and German farms are massive compared to the much smaller British farms (especially Welsh hillside farmers).
Not having a go at farmers (I wanted to be one when I was younger, and loved helping out on the farm) but it seems crazy that they survive on handouts and not from what they can produce.

Last edited by abergblue on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Had my postal ballot paperwork this morning and it's already completed on the way back to the returning officer.


I voted to "Leave" and nothing about this debate was EVER going to change my mind and I just hope the majority who do vote have the sense to follow suit.

Anyone still in doubt should ask why the EU has postponed ALL discussion on the midterm review of the budget requirements, at this moment there is a 20B euro blackhole in the EU budget and that will likely cost the UK an extra £2B over and above what we currently pay. Little wonder they don't want this becoming common knowledge in the middle of a referendum.

The same applies to the latest evolution of the EU Labour Mobility Legislation, again shelved until after this referendum. Why? It couldn't be that it includes a package to compensate countries like "Poland" for the loss of workers moving to Germany, France or the UK. Compensation you just couldn't make it up little wonder the whole thing is a bottomless pit which will NEVER have enough money to finance it's nutcase policies.

Not to mention the EU Convention on Human Rights the final nail in the coffin of UK Sovereignty.


Time to say enough is enough.

The current state of the EU has long passed its purpose.

It is heading towards a truly shocking end due to bureaucracy.

Despite this, it does not want to reform itself due to self interest.

There are no objective financial or security arguments for us to remain as a member of the status quo, except those with a narrow self interest.

Whilst being an EU member, Britain specifically chose to stay out of the euro and Schengen passport fee zones which are the EU's two greatest mistakes.

So after all considerations, I believe that Britain leaving will be not only good for Britain bit also for 'Europe', as it will be the catalyst for the current failed bureaucratic 'union' to finally collapse and then be reformed with us taking the lead.

BOOM !!

YEP!...BOOM INDEED!

Not seen many better or realistic statements on this subject!

Self-interest amongst politicians is the key issue for me and it is documented that the people/citizens of other EU nations also want OUT!

The current state of the EU has long passed its purpose.

It is heading towards a truly shocking end due to bureaucracy.

Despite this, it does not want to reform itself due to self interest.

There are no objective financial or security arguments for us to remain as a member of the status quo, except those with a narrow self interest.

Whilst being an EU member, Britain specifically chose to stay out of the euro and Schengen passport fee zones which are the EU's two greatest mistakes.

So after all considerations, I believe that Britain leaving will be not only good for Britain bit also for 'Europe', as it will be the catalyst for the current failed bureaucratic 'union' to finally collapse and then be reformed with us taking the lead.

BOOM !!

YEP!...BOOM INDEED!

Not seen many better or realistic statements on this subject!

Self-interest amongst politicians is the key issue for me and it is documented that the people/citizens of other EU nations also want OUT!

You are right Sven, the Dutch are waiting for the outcome of our vote, Denmark and Ireland (again) are looking at a get out.

Haha. I win. Nothing to offer now my little angel other than personal insults. Sums you up. My little petal.

I'm sure you are completely heterosexual. And I'm sure you sure just confirming it by announcing it I'm sure.

When they resort to insults you know you've won.He's just a closet racist.

You assumed I'm a racist so it must be right for me to assume you're a communist... Utter nonsense

Angelis, you know when you have won, when they start calling you a racist. It seems to them that is the worst insult you can make.
But strangely they seem to support the Labour party and socialism, the biggest racist, anti-semitic, bigoted party in the country. With leaders who openly support terrorism and terrorists.

Your absolutely correct of course,the British left will always revert to name calling and attach labels to people whose point of view they disagree with,they find that easier to do than argue there side of the argument intelligently

The same economists who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same economists who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The same organisations (like the CBI - Confederation of British Industry) who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same organisations who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The CBI does not represent British businesses as a whole. It only represents the very large companies (who can afford the bureaucracy, red tape and deals within the EU). Smaller companies are being crippled.

Only 6-8% of our companies deal with the EU, so how can that possibly affect our long term trade? The big companies will be able to afford any threatened tariffs added if we leave (which will not happen anyway), just as they can afford the extra bureaucracy, red tape and other EU regualtions now.

Lots of people shop on the internet (Ebay, Amazon etc) look where they come from, so being in the EU will not really affect the basic consumer, as a lot of goods are purchased this way, and prices are kept down and will remain so.

The same economists who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same economists who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The same organisations (like the CBI - Confederation of British Industry) who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same organisations who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The CBI does not represent British businesses as a whole. It only represents the very large companies (who can afford the bureaucracy, red tape and deals within the EU). Smaller companies are being crippled.

Only 6-8% of our companies deal with the EU, so how can that possibly affect our long term trade? The big companies will be able to afford any threatened tariffs added if we leave (which will not happen anyway), just as they can afford the extra bureaucracy, red tape and other EU regualtions now.

Lots of people shop on the internet (Ebay, Amazon etc) look where they come from, so being in the EU will not really affect the basic consumer, as a lot of goods are purchased this way, and prices are kept down and will remain so.

Totally agree with you

Haha. I win. Nothing to offer now my little angel other than personal insults. Sums you up. My little petal.

I'm sure you are completely heterosexual. And I'm sure you sure just confirming it by announcing it I'm sure.

When they resort to insults you know you've won.He's just a closet racist.

You assumed I'm a racist so it must be right for me to assume you're a communist... Utter nonsense

Angelis, you know when you have won, when they start calling you a racist. It seems to them that is the worst insult you can make.
But strangely they seem to support the Labour party and socialism, the biggest racist, anti-semitic, bigoted party in the country. With leaders who openly support terrorism and terrorists.

Your absolutely correct of course,the British left will always revert to name calling and attach labels to people whose point of view they disagree with,they find that easier to do than argue there side of the argument intelligently

Most normal people have seen through the lefties shouting racist all the time

The same economists who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same economists who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The same organisations (like the CBI - Confederation of British Industry) who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same organisations who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The CBI does not represent British businesses as a whole. It only represents the very large companies (who can afford the bureaucracy, red tape and deals within the EU). Smaller companies are being crippled.

Only 6-8% of our companies deal with the EU, so how can that possibly affect our long term trade? The big companies will be able to afford any threatened tariffs added if we leave (which will not happen anyway), just as they can afford the extra bureaucracy, red tape and other EU regualtions now.

Lots of people shop on the internet (Ebay, Amazon etc) look where they come from, so being in the EU will not really affect the basic consumer, as a lot of goods are purchased this way, and prices are kept down and will remain so.

I was a business banking manager for many years, and saw many small businesses struggling with the red tape imposed on them by the EU. Many of these businesses felt that when competing with German and French businnesses in particular, the odds were stacked against them, and that there was never a level playing field when it came to competing against businesses from those countries. A large number of these small businesses failed, although there were other factors in addition to the problems they faced from the EU. Although I have no experience of the fishing industry, I believe that they are facing similar problems themselves.

The same economists who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same economists who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The same organisations (like the CBI - Confederation of British Industry) who are saying we should stay in the EU or face financial disaster, are the same organisations who said we should scrap the £ (and adopt the euro) or face financial disaster. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

The CBI does not represent British businesses as a whole. It only represents the very large companies (who can afford the bureaucracy, red tape and deals within the EU). Smaller companies are being crippled.

Only 6-8% of our companies deal with the EU, so how can that possibly affect our long term trade? The big companies will be able to afford any threatened tariffs added if we leave (which will not happen anyway), just as they can afford the extra bureaucracy, red tape and other EU regualtions now.

Lots of people shop on the internet (Ebay, Amazon etc) look where they come from, so being in the EU will not really affect the basic consumer, as a lot of goods are purchased this way, and prices are kept down and will remain so.

I was a business banking manager for many years, and saw many small businesses struggling with the red tape imposed on them by the EU. Many of these businesses felt that when competing with German and French businnesses in particular, the odds were stacked against them, and that there was never a level playing field when it came to competing against businesses from those countries. A large number of these small businesses failed, although there were other factors in addition to the problems they faced from the EU. Although I have no experience of the fishing industry, I believe that they are facing similar problems themselves.

When you got land locked countries getting quota s in our fishing waters something is bloody wrong eu have killed our industry

Let's stay in the EU and get Welsh independence as soon as possible. Result

Best post I've seen on here in a long time

The irony is that if Wales were an independent country we would be kicked out of the EU and have to reapply to join. Spain and other nations would not allow us to join as it would embolden separatists in their own country.

Look at the bigger picture you pair of fruits, stop kissing the EUs arse and saying how wonderful it is and then tell us we should all leave it, you come across as mongos.

Haha. I win. Nothing to offer now my little angel other than personal insults. Sums you up. My little petal.

I'm sure you are completely heterosexual. And I'm sure you sure just confirming it by announcing it I'm sure.

When they resort to insults you know you've won.He's just a closet racist.

You assumed I'm a racist so it must be right for me to assume you're a communistI ASSUMED NOTHING i MADE THE COMMENTS AFTER READING YOUR POST NOT BEFORE... Utter nonsense

Angelis, you know when you have won, when they start calling you a racist. It seems to them that is the worst insult you can make.
But strangely they seem to support the Labour party and socialism, the biggest racist, anti-semitic, bigoted party in the country. With leaders who openly support terrorism and terrorists.

He's not only a racist but a coward too.Have you even read the particular piece of this thread the argument is over Abergblue?He could not make those particular comments outside of a football forum and they are by definition homophobic and racist.I call him a coward because he hides behind anonymity-you could not say that and not be branded thus in public.In the same post he states his support for our soldiers like that is some badge to hold up as proof of his Britishness.I must admit I felf a slight pang of anger there as I have more that a few loved ones buried and remembered in places all over this country including in our own council buildings.They died defending this country against people with racist views as did many sheikhs,muslims and people with many other faiths.

ABERGBLUE-at least I read something first before commenting,you ought to try it.

Let's stay in the EU and get Welsh independence as soon as possible. Result

Best post I've seen on here in a long time

The irony is that if Wales were an independent country we would be kicked out of the EU and have to reapply to join. Spain and other nations would not allow us to join as it would embolden separatists in their own country.

Look at the bigger picture you pair of fruits, stop kissing the EUs arse and saying how wonderful it is and then tell us we should all leave it, you come across as mongos.

Have to laught at those don't knows. It's not as if the UK has been in the EU forever. There are plenty of people around who will remember what it was like before we joined.

You have to laugh at them. But that is the reality of brexit going in to the unknown because of immigration that won't change anyway. Probably be worse. Ironic most will vote out to lower immigration but it wil only increase. Now that irony you have to laugh at.

I have studied your posts on this topic and your defence of immigration,would you be willing to share with the forum whether you're an immigrant yourself or possibly the same ethnicity as the migrants concerned,of course I would be fully respectful of your decision if you choose not to answer my question

At aberblue. This is his statement he needs to know if I'm an immigrant or not and the. He's says if I'm not what is my skin colour. What's my skin colour to do with whether I'm british or not.

You support this aberblue??

Have to laught at those don't knows. It's not as if the UK has been in the EU forever. There are plenty of people around who will remember what it was like before we joined.

You have to laugh at them. But that is the reality of brexit going in to the unknown because of immigration that won't change anyway. Probably be worse. Ironic most will vote out to lower immigration but it wil only increase. Now that irony you have to laugh at.

I have studied your posts on this topic and your defence of immigration,would you be willing to share with the forum whether you're an immigrant yourself or possibly the same ethnicity as the migrants concerned,of course I would be fully respectful of your decision if you choose not to answer my question

No problem answering that for you angel.
I'm not an an immigrant and not sure what you mean by if I'm the same ethnicity as them as that would be a yes as I'm Caucasian. Like a lot of of immigrants are but strange to move on to race of people (dangerous thinking ) but ok.

Not once have I defended immigration and said there's no problem with it. I actually agree with a lot of the country that's it's out of hand. I believe voting out will see an even bigger influx of immigrants coming here. The in increase in power the eu will have over when we out will be shocking . But like I said before the only chance they have of victory is low turn out because the people who stay at home are brexit supporters. I believe if there's less than 90% turnout and it's a close run race and brexit win it should be voided as the 10% who did vote would have voted to stay in if the polling card was put in front of them.
Hope this helps angels. I want less immigration hence why I would never vote out.

Very well answered Sir,indeed,better that the person who asked the question deserved.Perhaps angelis would now justify why he needed to ask such a rude question in the first place.

I had no intention of being rude I was just being curious,as for me my background is an open book I'm white British retired with grand children I'm a right wing Conservative who is against same sex marriage and find homosexuality abnormal but unlike your Muslim friends I would not chop your head off or throw you off a three storey building for being a homosexual,I'm extremely proud of being British,a concept I suspect you struggle with I'm also very proud of our arm service men and women and I'm extremely patriotic,another concept that a leftie like you may struggle with,maybe you would like to give a brief description of yourself,if you decline to do so I would completely understand and respect your decision,after all we are not living in a communist country just yet

@aberblue and then he can out with this. Homosexuals are abnormal. ?? What is normal??
He then singled out Muslims who attack gays and says at least I don't do that as if he needs to be given a medal for not doing something. Are Muslims the only people that attack gays? I don't think so. as the sweet little keyboard warrior angel has described himself. White british right wing conservative have people who call into this group ever carried out a homophobic attack that he says he despises so much that Muslims do??

Haha. I win. Nothing to offer now my little angel other than personal insults. Sums you up. My little petal.

I'm sure you are completely heterosexual. And I'm sure you sure just confirming it by announcing it I'm sure.

When they resort to insults you know you've won.He's just a closet racist.

You assumed I'm a racist so it must be right for me to assume you're a communist... Utter nonsense

Angelis, you know when you have won, when they start calling you a racist. It seems to them that is the worst insult you can make.
But strangely they seem to support the Labour party and socialism, the biggest racist, anti-semitic, bigoted party in the country. With leaders who openly support terrorism and terrorists.

Do you even know what bigoted even means ? I suggest you don't other wise you wouldn't have included it in you last statement.

Also you really need to read posts you going to comment on. As I said I don't vote in any set wAy my views and opinions change as does life I would never cement myself in one direction and never change. I said I think immigration is out of hand, and believe leaving the eu would make matters on that one single front a lot worse.

Look aber I've even made it easy for you rather than trolling back through

Have to laught at those don't knows. It's not as if the UK has been in the EU forever. There are plenty of people around who will remember what it was like before we joined.

You have to laugh at them. But that is the reality of brexit going in to the unknown because of immigration that won't change anyway. Probably be worse. Ironic most will vote out to lower immigration but it wil only increase. Now that irony you have to laugh at.

I have studied your posts on this topic and your defence of immigration,would you be willing to share with the forum whether you're an immigrant yourself or possibly the same ethnicity as the migrants concerned,of course I would be fully respectful of your decision if you choose not to answer my question

No problem answering that for you angel.
I'm not an an immigrant and not sure what you mean by if I'm the same ethnicity as them as that would be a yes as I'm Caucasian. Like a lot of of immigrants are but strange to move on to race of people (dangerous thinking ) but ok.

Not once have I defended immigration and said there's no problem with it. I actually agree with a lot of the country that's it's out of hand. I believe voting out will see an even bigger influx of immigrants coming here. The in increase in power the eu will have over when we out will be shocking . But like I said before the only chance they have of victory is low turn out because the people who stay at home are brexit supporters. I believe if there's less than 90% turnout and it's a close run race and brexit win it should be voided as the 10% who did vote would have voted to stay in if the polling card was put in front of them.
Hope this helps angels. I want less immigration hence why I would never vote out.

Very well answered Sir,indeed,better that the person who asked the question deserved.Perhaps angelis would now justify why he needed to ask such a rude question in the first place.

I had no intention of being rude I was just being curious,as for me my background is an open book I'm white British retired with grand children I'm a right wing Conservative who is against same sex marriage and find homosexuality abnormal but unlike your Muslim friends I would not chop your head off or throw you off a three storey building for being a homosexual,I'm extremely proud of being British,a concept I suspect you struggle with I'm also very proud of our arm service men and women and I'm extremely patriotic,another concept that a leftie like you may struggle with,maybe you would like to give a brief description of yourself,if you decline to do so I would completely understand and respect your decision,after all we are not living in a communist country just yet

What else do you find abnormal angel??
Are you bigoted about every thing or is it just gender, race, sexuality and religious beliefs?
As you such an open book like you said even though you hidden safely behind a computer thought I'd ask.

Have to laught at those don't knows. It's not as if the UK has been in the EU forever. There are plenty of people around who will remember what it was like before we joined.

You have to laugh at them. But that is the reality of brexit going in to the unknown because of immigration that won't change anyway. Probably be worse. Ironic most will vote out to lower immigration but it wil only increase. Now that irony you have to laugh at.

I have studied your posts on this topic and your defence of immigration,would you be willing to share with the forum whether you're an immigrant yourself or possibly the same ethnicity as the migrants concerned,of course I would be fully respectful of your decision if you choose not to answer my question

No problem answering that for you angel.
I'm not an an immigrant and not sure what you mean by if I'm the same ethnicity as them as that would be a yes as I'm Caucasian. Like a lot of of immigrants are but strange to move on to race of people (dangerous thinking ) but ok.

Not once have I defended immigration and said there's no problem with it. I actually agree with a lot of the country that's it's out of hand. I believe voting out will see an even bigger influx of immigrants coming here. The in increase in power the eu will have over when we out will be shocking . But like I said before the only chance they have of victory is low turn out because the people who stay at home are brexit supporters. I believe if there's less than 90% turnout and it's a close run race and brexit win it should be voided as the 10% who did vote would have voted to stay in if the polling card was put in front of them.
Hope this helps angels. I want less immigration hence why I would never vote out.

Very well answered Sir,indeed,better that the person who asked the question deserved.Perhaps angelis would now justify why he needed to ask such a rude question in the first place.

I had no intention of being rude I was just being curious,as for me my background is an open book I'm white British retired with grand children I'm a right wing Conservative who is against same sex marriage and find homosexuality abnormal but unlike your Muslim friends I would not chop your head off or throw you off a three storey building for being a homosexual,I'm extremely proud of being British,a concept I suspect you struggle with I'm also very proud of our arm service men and women and I'm extremely patriotic,another concept that a leftie like you may struggle with,maybe you would like to give a brief description of yourself,if you decline to do so I would completely understand and respect your decision,after all we are not living in a communist country just yet

What else do you find abnormal angel??
Are you bigoted about every thing or is it just gender, race, sexuality and religious beliefs?
As you such an open book like you said even though you hidden safely behind a computer thought I'd ask.

The British left will always want the last word on any given subject even knitting patterns so I intend to make this my last comment on this subject.... Vote Leave you know it makes sense

Have to laught at those don't knows. It's not as if the UK has been in the EU forever. There are plenty of people around who will remember what it was like before we joined.

You have to laugh at them. But that is the reality of brexit going in to the unknown because of immigration that won't change anyway. Probably be worse. Ironic most will vote out to lower immigration but it wil only increase. Now that irony you have to laugh at.

I have studied your posts on this topic and your defence of immigration,would you be willing to share with the forum whether you're an immigrant yourself or possibly the same ethnicity as the migrants concerned,of course I would be fully respectful of your decision if you choose not to answer my question

No problem answering that for you angel.
I'm not an an immigrant and not sure what you mean by if I'm the same ethnicity as them as that would be a yes as I'm Caucasian. Like a lot of of immigrants are but strange to move on to race of people (dangerous thinking ) but ok.

Not once have I defended immigration and said there's no problem with it. I actually agree with a lot of the country that's it's out of hand. I believe voting out will see an even bigger influx of immigrants coming here. The in increase in power the eu will have over when we out will be shocking . But like I said before the only chance they have of victory is low turn out because the people who stay at home are brexit supporters. I believe if there's less than 90% turnout and it's a close run race and brexit win it should be voided as the 10% who did vote would have voted to stay in if the polling card was put in front of them.
Hope this helps angels. I want less immigration hence why I would never vote out.

Very well answered Sir,indeed,better that the person who asked the question deserved.Perhaps angelis would now justify why he needed to ask such a rude question in the first place.

I had no intention of being rude I was just being curious,as for me my background is an open book I'm white British retired with grand children I'm a right wing Conservative who is against same sex marriage and find homosexuality abnormal but unlike your Muslim friends I would not chop your head off or throw you off a three storey building for being a homosexual,I'm extremely proud of being British,a concept I suspect you struggle with I'm also very proud of our arm service men and women and I'm extremely patriotic,another concept that a leftie like you may struggle with,maybe you would like to give a brief description of yourself,if you decline to do so I would completely understand and respect your decision,after all we are not living in a communist country just yet

What else do you find abnormal angel??
Are you bigoted about every thing or is it just gender, race, sexuality and religious beliefs?
As you such an open book like you said even though you hidden safely behind a computer thought I'd ask.

The British left will always want the last word on any given subject even knitting patterns so I intend to make this my last comment on this subject.... Vote Leave you know it makes sense

That may well be true
As is cowards will run when it gets to heated even ones hidden behind a screen. Not so open as you first suggested are you angel?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I always thought that it was the Tories under Thatcher who started dismantling our manufacturing industries - coal, steel, auto, etc. Didn't they do this and set up banking as the UK's main 'industry'. What Thatcher started, Labour under Blair continued. That's what I was taught at school. Did they get history wrong? What did the EU have to do with it? You really have been brain washed haven't you. But then that's what happened before the war isn't it - a banking crisis and depression, the rise of the right throughout Europe - a brainwashed public who turned a blind eye, lets just hope the history is not repeating itself...

Yes, they did get the history wrong, and, unfortunately, you are the brainwashed public.

The dismantling of British Industry began under the Labour in the 1960's, and closed far more collieries than the Tories ever did. You'll never hear the Left admit that, mainly because its true.

Why don't you check your facts before posting - you might get someplace.


If you're brainwashed, how