Labour Majority - General Election Live

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

The NHS has been far from right for decades, anyone who’s had any dealings with it n last ten years, knows reform is necessary

Which is what Labour are saying and I fully agree with.

Too many managers, A&E needs a full on triage to stop time wasting, care system needs resolving to stop bed blocking (Boris said he’d do that in his acceptance speech and did zilch). A more joined up approach with more preventative/early detection at either GP surgeries or diagnostic centres (again what Labour are proposing).

I’ve seen the good and bad of the NHS in the last year for one of my kids and can some it up as this;
A&E appalling
Bed waiting awful
Specialist care, treatment and aftercare outstanding.

It’s not all bad but needs to be better.

Mate the NHS saved the life of my daughter and her unborn twin girls (Ronnie n Reggie) 6 years ago, so I’ve got much to thank them for. However it’s struggling and needs to change, it’s massively over managed and procurement is a disaster but Labour tend to over manage everything, look at TFW, first thing Drakeford did was create an additional level of management.

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

A lot of the issues with over management in the NHS were created by labour in the first place and maintained in Wales the WAG as it was and WG now. In England the conservatives have just sat on their backsides not doing much.

Labour for example created the mass of health boards and local area trusts which hugely increased costs and bureaucracy. Not to mention the post code lottery we have. They also ballsed up dentistry more than anyone on this forum will have any concept of how much. They are still ballsing it up here. In England. True to form. The conservatives have sat back and watched it implode.

I personally don’t trust either party as far as I can throw them. None have a joined up plan of fixing healthcare in the uk either by reform on the NHS or giving us a new system that remains free at the point of delivery.

They are both broadly the same now. Very much metropolitan elites with more or less slants to the left.

Labour ideologically can’t help but want to tax tax tax and grow middle management. Conservatives pretend they don’t want to tax but end up doing it because they have zero idea how to reduce the massive tiers of middle management previously created. So - do nothing.

A lot of the issues with over management in the NHS were created by labour in the first place and maintained in Wales the WAG as it was and WG now. In England the conservatives have just sat on their backsides not doing much.

Labour for example created the mass of health boards and local area trusts which hugely increased costs and bureaucracy. Not to mention the post code lottery we have. They also ballsed up dentistry more than anyone on this forum will have any concept of how much. They are still ballsing it up here. In England. True to form. The conservatives have sat back and watched it implode.

I personally don’t trust either party as far as I can throw them. None have a joined up plan of fixing healthcare in the uk either by reform on the NHS or giving us a new system that remains free at the point of delivery.

They are both broadly the same now. Very much metropolitan elites with more or less slants to the left.

Labour ideologically can’t help but want to tax tax tax and grow middle management. Conservatives pretend they don’t want to tax but end up doing it because they have zero idea how to reduce the massive tiers of middle management previously created. So - do nothing.

Labour WG have messed up nhs in Wales but not got a clue on how to fix it..... betsi cadwaladr been a mess for many years and under special measures yet nothing done to fix it... hewel dda is a total disaster of WG making and getting worse! Now they want to take responsibility for law and order plus more, i wouldn't trust them with my piggy bank they only know how to avoid scrutiny and blame anyone but themselves.. ... cons are in total disarray so not going to win a Labour majority is a bad thing judging by statement about using Welsh govmnt as template for running country.

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

Here you go.

Self employed actually pay €1000+, and there are also contributions for all workers towards care costs too.

Average costs are significant and even if you take the lowest capped figure to work to you have to add the additional costs set out in the article.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... 20employee.

A lot of the issues with over management in the NHS were created by labour in the first place and maintained in Wales the WAG as it was and WG now. In England the conservatives have just sat on their backsides not doing much.

Labour for example created the mass of health boards and local area trusts which hugely increased costs and bureaucracy. Not to mention the post code lottery we have. They also ballsed up dentistry more than anyone on this forum will have any concept of how much. They are still ballsing it up here. In England. True to form. The conservatives have sat back and watched it implode.

I personally don’t trust either party as far as I can throw them. None have a joined up plan of fixing healthcare in the uk either by reform on the NHS or giving us a new system that remains free at the point of delivery.

They are both broadly the same now. Very much metropolitan elites with more or less slants to the left.

Labour ideologically can’t help but want to tax tax tax and grow middle management. Conservatives pretend they don’t want to tax but end up doing it because they have zero idea how to reduce the massive tiers of middle management previously created. So - do nothing.

I think I’m right in saying that Labour are the only ones who have specifically committed to reforming the NHS.

I stand to be corrected on that because I haven’t read the detail of the other manifestos. If others have committed to it they certainly aren’t leading their campaigns with it.

The way they reformed it the last time doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. Pfi?
For context. And believe me I’m not defending the tories here.

But labour introduced dental charges

They introduced pfi

They introduced more private services to the NHS

They brought in the dental contract every dentist hates

They brought in the Gp contract that we have now

They brought in the health boards and pct’s which massively increased managerial costs to the tax payer while introducing post code lotteries.

All while blaming the tories.

The tories though do nothing but take it. Nod and carry on.


We have such a shit show for a bunch of political choices.

I won’t vote labour. 25 years of Wales as a test bed should show us what we have to look forward to. I won’t vote green as I like my steak and they want to take it off me.
I find the Lib Dem’s laughable.
The SDP come across well but aren’t in my constituency

The conservatives consider betting on them being kicked out as an endorsement.

The way they reformed it the last time doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. Pfi?
For context. And believe me I’m not defending the tories here.

But labour introduced dental charges

They introduced pfi

They introduced more private services to the NHS

They brought in the dental contract every dentist hates

They brought in the Gp contract that we have now

They brought in the health boards and pct’s which massively increased managerial costs to the tax payer while introducing post code lotteries.

All while blaming the tories.

The tories though do nothing but take it. Nod and carry on.


We have such a shit show for a bunch of political choices.

I won’t vote labour. 25 years of Wales as a test bed should show us what we have to look forward to. I won’t vote green as I like my steak and they want to take it off me.
I find the Lib Dem’s laughable.
The SDP come across well but aren’t in my constituency

The conservatives consider betting on them being kicked out as an endorsement.

Gp contracts failing same as dentists did! Lost 4 in hewel dda over last year expect more and more ... the health boards need abolishing particularly Hewell dda and betsi cadwaladr they've failed to give the people what is expected from NHS ... the scary thing is having more AMs and the change in voting in favour of making themselves invincible ? Expect more ludicrous policies and wasted money.

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

Here you go.

Self employed actually pay €1000+, and there are also contributions for all workers towards care costs too.

Average costs are significant and even if you take the lowest capped figure to work to you have to add the additional costs set out in the article.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... 20employee.

Piledriver, i don't know if you've even read your own link but it proves your figure of £800 a month is scaremongering nonesense
According to that link The German system requires 7.3% of salary as insurance and 7.3% made up by the health care provider. Our national INSURANCE tax is 15% isn't it?

Piledriver the German contributions are capped at €541 per month for somebody earning 60k or more a year approximately. You've been fed a load of LIES. 8.5% of salary on health is very decent for Germans considering our national insurance is higher and they have better outcomes and a better service. I don't want to be confrontational but can you stop spreading misinformation, the truth is important.

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

Here you go.

Self employed actually pay €1000+, and there are also contributions for all workers towards care costs too.

Average costs are significant and even if you take the lowest capped figure to work to you have to add the additional costs set out in the article.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... 20employee.

Piledriver, i don't know if you've even read your own link but it proves your figure of £800 a month is scaremongering nonesense
According to that link The German system requires 7.3% of salary as insurance and 7.3% made up by the health care provider. Our national INSURANCE tax is 15% isn't it?

Piledriver the German contributions are capped at €541 per month for somebody earning 60k or more a year approximately. You've been fed a load of LIES. 8.5% of salary on health is very decent for Germans considering our national insurance is higher and they have better outcomes and a better service. I don't want to be confrontational but can you stop spreading misinformation, the truth is important.

I suggest you read it.

Self employed have to pay all of it.

I said average and also pointed out the additional contributions to care costs, etc., which are all compulsory. Also take into account that employers have to pay half and do you think they do that out of the kindness of their own heart or maybe hold wages down to pay for that !!??

Come on, you have to use some intelligence when assessing this and not just listen to the Reform rhetoric. You and I won’t agree on this but at least I’ve looked into it and you clearly haven’t.

I suggest you have a look at France too. Another warning shot, Farage loves the US …….

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

Here you go.

Self employed actually pay €1000+, and there are also contributions for all workers towards care costs too.

Average costs are significant and even if you take the lowest capped figure to work to you have to add the additional costs set out in the article.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... 20employee.

Piledriver, i don't know if you've even read your own link but it proves your figure of £800 a month is scaremongering nonesense
According to that link The German system requires 7.3% of salary as insurance and 7.3% made up by the health care provider. Our national INSURANCE tax is 15% isn't it?

Piledriver the German contributions are capped at €541 per month for somebody earning 60k or more a year approximately. You've been fed a load of LIES. 8.5% of salary on health is very decent for Germans considering our national insurance is higher and they have better outcomes and a better service. I don't want to be confrontational but can you stop spreading misinformation, the truth is important.

I suggest you read it.

Self employed have to pay all of it.

I said average and also pointed out the additional contributions to care costs, etc., which are all compulsory. Also take into account that employers have to pay half and do you think they do that out of the kindness of their own heart or maybe hold wages down to pay for that !!??

Come on, you have to use some intelligence when assessing this and not just listen to the Reform rhetoric. You and I won’t agree on this but at least I’ve looked into it and you clearly haven’t.

I suggest you have a look at France too. Another warning shot, Farage loves the US …….

I have read it and your figures don't add up at all. Don't take people for fools, or maybe you've been taken for a fool by left wing propagandists. Under the German system, Somebody earning as little as 1k a month is going to pay around £80 per month on health. British national INSURANCE is 15% i think, so a brit pays £150 per month.

I've not read Reform rhetoric i'm using the figures from your link.
Farage may like America, i don't know but he has explicitly stated a German/French model not an American one. The American system is appallingly exspensive in my view and i wouldn't vote for anyone proposing it. Infact i think your figures are based on an American calculation not a German one.We may disagree on farage but facts and figures can't be disputed.

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

Here you go.

Self employed actually pay €1000+, and there are also contributions for all workers towards care costs too.

Average costs are significant and even if you take the lowest capped figure to work to you have to add the additional costs set out in the article.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... 20employee.

Piledriver, i don't know if you've even read your own link but it proves your figure of £800 a month is scaremongering nonesense
According to that link The German system requires 7.3% of salary as insurance and 7.3% made up by the health care provider. Our national INSURANCE tax is 15% isn't it?

Piledriver the German contributions are capped at €541 per month for somebody earning 60k or more a year approximately. You've been fed a load of LIES. 8.5% of salary on health is very decent for Germans considering our national insurance is higher and they have better outcomes and a better service. I don't want to be confrontational but can you stop spreading misinformation, the truth is important.

I suggest you read it.

Self employed have to pay all of it.

I said average and also pointed out the additional contributions to care costs, etc., which are all compulsory. Also take into account that employers have to pay half and do you think they do that out of the kindness of their own heart or maybe hold wages down to pay for that !!??

Come on, you have to use some intelligence when assessing this and not just listen to the Reform rhetoric. You and I won’t agree on this but at least I’ve looked into it and you clearly haven’t.

I suggest you have a look at France too. Another warning shot, Farage loves the US …….

When you say self employed pay it all, it means they don't receive the 7.3% subsidy, so their contribution doubles but it's still only just over 15% when the additional nurse contribution is calculated. Plus, there is a cap. Personally, i don't think Farage would penalise the self employed like that, so therre'd be tweaks for the British mindset. It's all theory for now anyway as Labour have it in the bag

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

Here you go.

Self employed actually pay €1000+, and there are also contributions for all workers towards care costs too.

Average costs are significant and even if you take the lowest capped figure to work to you have to add the additional costs set out in the article.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... 20employee.

Piledriver, i don't know if you've even read your own link but it proves your figure of £800 a month is scaremongering nonesense
According to that link The German system requires 7.3% of salary as insurance and 7.3% made up by the health care provider. Our national INSURANCE tax is 15% isn't it?

Piledriver the German contributions are capped at €541 per month for somebody earning 60k or more a year approximately. You've been fed a load of LIES. 8.5% of salary on health is very decent for Germans considering our national insurance is higher and they have better outcomes and a better service. I don't want to be confrontational but can you stop spreading misinformation, the truth is important.

I suggest you read it.

Self employed have to pay all of it.

I said average and also pointed out the additional contributions to care costs, etc., which are all compulsory. Also take into account that employers have to pay half and do you think they do that out of the kindness of their own heart or maybe hold wages down to pay for that !!??

Come on, you have to use some intelligence when assessing this and not just listen to the Reform rhetoric. You and I won’t agree on this but at least I’ve looked into it and you clearly haven’t.

I suggest you have a look at France too. Another warning shot, Farage loves the US …….

Also, the average wage in Germany is quite a bit hiģher than the UK. So your theory that the German system is surpressing wages doesn't stack up

Farage has explained how he'd fund the health system, i already said in this thread but you ignored it. by scrapping net zero and spending those billions on health. The French and German systems have better health outcomes.
You say Starmer is going to reform the NHS, His right hand man on health, Wes Streeting, is in favour of A lot more privisation in the NHS. That is going to happen because Labour are going to win

No, he said directly that it would be an “insurance based” system, don’t re-write what he said.

That will equate to a minimum of £800 per month per adult for minimum levels of care. The figures fit other countries are there for you to look at. If you have a spare £1600 per month for you and your partner vote Reform. If not, think very carefully, this isn’t just about immigration. Reform are very much a right wing party with little in common with the average family.


But Net Zero is not an option it’s a necessity.

Are you really believing these climate crisis deniers? Surely you’re better than that ?

Farage is taking the approach that “it ain’t going to affect me so we’ll pretend it ain’t happening”.

I’d rather believe the experts/scientists over a failed politician of any party.

Ostrich and sand springs to mind !!

PileDriver, The French and Germans aŕe generally more left wing societies than ours and their health system has better outcomes than ours. Farage wants to copy them and pay for it with the approx. 18 billion saved by dropping net zero, i'm sorry but the figure you're quoting is scaremongering nonesense and probably conflated with the American insurance system that is appallingly exspensive.
I'm actually accepting net zero personally as i'm a bit of an environmentalist, although i'm not entirely convinced that global warming is caused by man, i do think we should be living far more sustainably. For me though, the biggest issue for most people by far is immigration and Farage is the best candidate of a bad bunch.

What is the source of the figure you quoted?

The figures are easily available on line and I have given the lower figures.

Many suggest much higher but by all means look it up and make your own mind up.

My main point is that Farage talks about abandoning Net Zero to pay for this on hand and then on the other hand he talks about an “insurance based” health system. Which is it ?

If it’s Net zero paying for it then the planet and, down the track, our kids will pay for it. Starting the move toward net zero earlier minimises the pain that will have to happen at some point.

If it’s “insurance based” we’d be paying for it out of our pockets, in which case let’s have a discussion about cost.

Farage says he’s the only leader being honest but, on this, he clearly isn’t because any threat to NHS will mean he loses vast swathes of support in one hit. The polls prove that time and time again, get the NHS right and that’s massively popular threaten it and you lose.

Can you link me to the source of your figure of £800 per month for French and German systems please? I can almost guarantee it's absolute scaremongering nonesense from partizans

If Britain ditched net zero the impact on global carbon emissions would be miniscule as we don't emit much in the grand scheme of things. So the idea generations are going to pay is a bit much. I don't know why people let themselves get so wound up by journalists who oppose Farage. He's not going to win the GE. Labour are going to win a landslide

Here you go.

Self employed actually pay €1000+, and there are also contributions for all workers towards care costs too.

Average costs are significant and even if you take the lowest capped figure to work to you have to add the additional costs set out in the article.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... 20employee.

Piledriver, i don't know if you've even read your own link but it proves your figure of £800 a month is scaremongering nonesense
According to that link The German system requires 7.3% of salary as insurance and 7.3% made up by the health care provider. Our national INSURANCE tax is 15% isn't it?

Piledriver the German contributions are capped at €541 per month for somebody earning 60k or more a year approximately. You've been fed a load of LIES. 8.5% of salary on health is very decent for Germans considering our national insurance is higher and they have better outcomes and a better service. I don't want to be confrontational but can you stop spreading misinformation, the truth is important.

I suggest you read it.

Self employed have to pay all of it.

I said average and also pointed out the additional contributions to care costs, etc., which are all compulsory. Also take into account that employers have to pay half and do you think they do that out of the kindness of their own heart or maybe hold wages down to pay for that !!??

Come on, you have to use some intelligence when assessing this and not just listen to the Reform rhetoric. You and I won’t agree on this but at least I’ve looked into it and you clearly haven’t.

I suggest you have a look at France too. Another warning shot, Farage loves the US …….

I have read it and your figures don't add up at all. Don't take people for fools, or maybe you've been taken for a fool by left wing propagandists. Under the German system, Somebody earning as little as 1k a month is going to pay around £80 per month on health. British national INSURANCE is 15% i think, so a brit pays £150 per month.

I've not read Reform rhetoric i'm using the figures from your link.
Farage may like America, i don't know but he has explicitly stated a German/French model not an American one. The American system is appallingly exspensive in my view and i wouldn't vote for anyone proposing it. Infact i think your figures are based on an American calculation not a German one.We may disagree on farage but facts and figures can't be disputed.

As you say, we won’t agree on this.

However, if you want to stick to facts NI does not wholly go toward healthcare, just a proportion.

So to use that as a comparison is wholly, unequivocally, wrong.

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/ ... ic-pay-for

Piledriver, it doesn't matter if Ñational Insurance ìs ring fenced or not. It may actually mean brits pay even more on health INSURANCE
It doesn't strengthen your lie that the Germans pay £800 pound a month on insurance.

The way they reformed it the last time doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. Pfi?
For context. And believe me I’m not defending the tories here.

But labour introduced dental charges

They introduced pfi

They introduced more private services to the NHS

They brought in the dental contract every dentist hates

They brought in the Gp contract that we have now

They brought in the health boards and pct’s which massively increased managerial costs to the tax payer while introducing post code lotteries.

All while blaming the tories.

The tories though do nothing but take it. Nod and carry on.


We have such a shit show for a bunch of political choices.

I won’t vote labour. 25 years of Wales as a test bed should show us what we have to look forward to. I won’t vote green as I like my steak and they want to take it off me.
I find the Lib Dem’s laughable.
The SDP come across well but aren’t in my constituency

The conservatives consider betting on them being kicked out as an endorsement.

I think John Major introduced PFI, But Tony Blair enlarged it.

The way they reformed it the last time doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. Pfi?
For context. And believe me I’m not defending the tories here.

But labour introduced dental charges

They introduced pfi

They introduced more private services to the NHS

They brought in the dental contract every dentist hates

They brought in the Gp contract that we have now

They brought in the health boards and pct’s which massively increased managerial costs to the tax payer while introducing post code lotteries.

All while blaming the tories.

The tories though do nothing but take it. Nod and carry on.


We have such a shit show for a bunch of political choices.

I won’t vote labour. 25 years of Wales as a test bed should show us what we have to look forward to. I won’t vote green as I like my steak and they want to take it off me.
I find the Lib Dem’s laughable.
The SDP come across well but aren’t in my constituency

The conservatives consider betting on them being kicked out as an endorsement.

I think John Major introduced PFI, But Tony Blair enlarged it.

Would be interested to hear if anyone has changed their mind on who they’re voting for?

My fault really, should have let people to change their vote on this poll.

7 days to go.

Reform aren't ideal but they're the best of the bad bunch, a vote for Reform isn't wasted, ìf they get a certain vote share, the government has to plough money and resources into them. The media are then duty bound to cover Reform talking points like, out of control immigration.

Reform aren't ideal but they're the best of the bad bunch, a vote for Reform isn't wasted, ìf they get a certain vote share, the government has to plough money and resources into them. The media are then duty bound to cover Reform talking points like, out of control immigration.

I’ve voted (postal) for Reform, they’re far from ideal but the Globalist parties have got us in a terrible place.

Thing with Reform is they have some rogues and nutters as candidates which hampers their credibility as a serious opposition party.
I mean, you've had one of their guys suggesting this morning that the small boats crossing the channel should be used as target practice for army recruits! WTF!? How can you take that person seriously!?

It concerns me that votes for Reform to shaft the Tories will result in an enormous majority for Labour which will give them carte blanche to push through parliament whatever they like with no credible opposition to hold them to account.

Thing with Reform is they have some rogues and nutters as candidates which hampers their credibility as a serious opposition party.
I mean, you've had one of their guys suggesting this morning that the small boats crossing the channel should be used as target practice for army recruits! WTF!? How can you take that person seriously!?

It concerns me that votes for Reform to shaft the Tories will result in an enormous majority for Labour which will give them carte blanche to push through parliament whatever they like with no credible opposition to hold them to account.

Noboďy is seriously suggesting anyone gets shot. It's just media sensationalism.
We hàve to vote Reform in order to shape any Tory resurgence in the future. Eveñ if reform doesn't win many seats, the overall vote count is going to be noted & determine where the Conservative goes next. Labour hàve won this election, we have to think longer term. A vote for Reform is not just a vote for next week but the election after that.
What we really need to push for is a referendum on immigration and a referendum on the voting system, we need PR, Reform is going to get over a million votes yet probably won't get many seats in Parliament, that can't be right.

Agree that reform of the voting system is required.

As for the Tories,they've turned themselves into a car crash of a party. However marmite he was, they should never have ousted BJ as he would've knocked automaton Starmer into a cocked hat.

Unfortunately Starmer has no cohesive plan for UK based on actual evidence, there's no meat on the bones to the half arsed soundbites in the Labour manifesto.
Really hoping that UK doesn't turn into a socialist, woke, limp wristed, political backwater like Wales with its one party autocracy.

Sad times in UK politics with 2 ineffectual major parties.

I don't trust Labour to improve the economy. Its already improving and I believe the Tories will make a better fist of it (despite the Truss disaster).

I don't like any of them no confidence in any of them at all .worst selection for a general election in years .labour is a joke of a party .The Conservative government is ignorant. There is no clear decisive party that's gonna get my vote this time around .I'm self employed all I pay is tax pensions for other people when I haven't got my own because I can't afford it .There's no clear path for young apprenticeships In my trade and brexit which was supposed to give us are own trade links without being glued to the eu hasnt really worked .A Britain in limbo that needs major reform that no party wants to take a hold of .We buy German cars eat Indian food and are the USA puppets .
A party needs to take major steps to reform are once great country and stop depending on other countries when we are more than capable of depending on ourselves. We could make huge strides forward but we never do .All parties have gone out just to win votes without being bold enough to take Britain forward. We will sink further and watch more countries over take us which makes me fuming so nobody gets my vote

I don't like any of them no confidence in any of them at all .worst selection for a general election in years .labour is a joke of a party .The Conservative government is ignorant. There is no clear decisive party that's gonna get my vote this time around .I'm self employed all I pay is tax pensions for other people when I haven't got my own because I can't afford it .There's no clear path for young apprenticeships In my trade and brexit which was supposed to give us are own trade links without being glued to the eu hasnt really worked .A Britain in limbo that needs major reform that no party wants to take a hold of .We buy German cars eat Indian food and are the USA puppets .
A party needs to take major steps to reform are once great country and stop depending on other countries when we are more than capable of depending on ourselves. We could make huge strides forward but we never do .All parties have gone out just to win votes without being bold enough to take Britain forward. We will sink further and watch more countries over take us which makes me fuming so nobody gets my vote

Labour will get in and expand the already bloated public sector, so when it’s Baltic and you’re laying 9 inch blocks in a trench, a chunk of your hard earned will be paying for some work from home parasite

I don't like any of them no confidence in any of them at all .worst selection for a general election in years .labour is a joke of a party .The Conservative government is ignorant. There is no clear decisive party that's gonna get my vote this time around .I'm self employed all I pay is tax pensions for other people when I haven't got my own because I can't afford it .There's no clear path for young apprenticeships In my trade and brexit which was supposed to give us are own trade links without being glued to the eu hasnt really worked .A Britain in limbo that needs major reform that no party wants to take a hold of .We buy German cars eat Indian food and are the USA puppets .
A party needs to take major steps to reform are once great country and stop depending on other countries when we are more than capable of depending on ourselves. We could make huge strides forward but we never do .All parties have gone out just to win votes without being bold enough to take Britain forward. We will sink further and watch more countries over take us which makes me fuming so nobody gets my vote

Labour will get in and expand the already bloated public sector, so when it’s Baltic and you’re laying 9 inch blocks in a trench, a chunk of your hard earned will be paying for some work from home parasite

I'll be paying for a lot of people to rob the system while I work my self to death .I no people as we all do who claim and there fitter than me .Britain is a soft touch now oh and you ain't allowed any options of your own unless it's politically correct freedom of speech is long gone Britain now tells you what is exceptable your options ain't allowed any more are they .

48 hours until polls close now

Polls today suggest not much has changed since the election was called, with the exception of Reform’s support increasing obviously

48 hours until polls close now

Polls today suggest not much has changed since the election was called, with the exception of Reform’s support increasing obviously

Labour will skoosh it nothing major will change. They’ll push all their trans bollox, they’ll give asylum to every Islamist crackpot who arrives in a dinghy and they’ll over regulate the rental market. Meanwhile the elites will continue to make themselves richer and the rest of us poorer

The day is almost here .....

The day is almost here .....

Its here.