"I AM SORRY BUT I THINK ITS WRONG and TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER

Sludge is bang on his responses!

As usual with The Sun it's not the full story. Net immigration actually fell last year. The majority of the 200,000 people given passports have already been U.K. resident for over 5 years.
It's entry via the allocation of student visas that remains the biggest concern and where it seems quite simple to play/con the system. The assorted various public bodies do not work together to nulify these loopholes. There were plans to set up a dedicated border control organisation which would have helped coordinate all information. I'm not sure if this was ever progressed.

quite correct sir

its a typical scare mongering story by the sun and people have fallen for it

lets deal with facts , not bullshit

those that run industry and business in this country KNOW that we need skilled workers and we dont have time ..or the money to train them

we need them NOW

its all very well people wanting the locals trained up to be doctors etc but we are cutting university places due to the recession

so ...where is the money going to come from ?

the answer is simple ..we will have to seek trained workers from abroad ..or the economy will fall behind ..they will just go elsewhere ...peopel mostly go where the work is !!

but the tories have put a cap on non eu immigration ..so shot themselves ..and british industry in the foot

laughable really if it wasnt so stupid

Labour have left behind one huge mess founded on lies, lies, and more lies. How can any one person trust that party ever again is beyond me. From top to bottom the party is one huge mess and I would certainly believe the Sun before Brown or any of them.
Annis is correct on this on sludge.

you cant " close the borders " , we are part of the european community and as such freedom of movement between european countries is part of the way it is

the tories have made a massive boo boo on immigration

in order to get votes they said they would be " tough " on immigration

the problem is is that they cant be " tough " on immigrants from the european community , see point above

so ehat they have said is they will put a " cap " on immigration from the old commonwealth and around the world

but they have got it arse about face ..

we need doctors and skilled engineers in this country as we dont have enough

very few of these come from europe ...they come from the old commonwealth and around the world

so ..the tories are stopping the very sort of people this country needs from coming i9n

and before people say lets train our own people !! , a report from the cbi and the federation of engineers said we need these people NOW ..

its all very well the sun ( which is full od shit ) slagging off the labour government but the tories that it wanted in with a majority ( tough luck mr cameron ) has policies that will do NOTHING about the bad immigrants we have and stop the good ones we need from actually coming in

what a bunch of twerps !!

Skilled engineers? In what field? I've not come across an engineering discipline wher we are
Crying out for foreigners?

all areas according to cbi , unless you know more than them ?

Software? We can train british people.

no money to do so ..skilled workers needed now or the economy will suffer as they will go elsewhere


Architecture/ heavy engineering?


same as above ......no money to train people , skilled workers needed now


I'm yet to hear of Laings haviing to hire an Indian project manager?


so what ?



As for doctors? Well its blatantly obvious we need more doctors. WHY? Because the NHS is sinking
Under a sea of immigration. It is estimated we need 100 new doctors A WEEK just to cope with the
Tide of ILLEGAL immigrants and alleged 'foreign students' flooding the country every day. Stop the
Immigration and the pressure is off the NHS.

where did you get these figures from ?


migration watch is not a reliable source , its run by right wing ex tories

Britain needs also to stand up to europe and say a CAP is needed on european migration. The other
Members are laughing their cocks off at what's happening to Britain. There's no mass migration to any
Other european country and Spain is still the major place Brits emigrate to, but they generallly buy a
Home over there, are retired, and are NO burden to the Spanish welfare system.

there has been immigration to germany , italy , france , belgium , holland

you clearly have not heard of the large scale fraud carried out by british people living in spain yet claiming for benefits over here ,which they were not entitled to

Never mind what europe says, its britain all the immigrants head for, time to say no. What are europe
Going to do, stop our pocket money?? We GIVE europe far more than we get. Time to say no more!

well the CBI and the royal society of civil engineers were on bbc news last night saying that there simply isnt the supply of labour in these skilled areas to cope

every field !!

I will take their word for it !

train our own lot ?......with what ?...we dont have the money and the tories are cutting university places already

skilled workers from outside the eu are 30 percent degree trained , thats why the leaders of british industry want these people , we simply dont have the money or workforce to meet these high demands

Labour have left behind one huge mess founded on lies, lies, and more lies. How can any one person trust that party ever again is beyond me. From top to bottom the party is one huge mess and I would certainly believe the Sun before Brown or any of them.
Annis is correct on this on sludge.

no he isnt , hes completely incorrect , as is the sun

the major cause of our debt is the worldwide recession , leading to a lack of investment and lack of tax income

I hate statistics they can be manipulated how ever you want. Half of crime now goes unrecorded to keep down these crime figures. Even muggins dont get put down, if there is a lot one particular crime then its not recordrd just to keep these statistics down and then the Police tell uss crime is falling. BOLLOX TO STATISTICS we no it is broken Britain.

rubbish

crime is down

Looking at this from another angle isn't it immoral of this country to pinch Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc from third world countries who have their own people who could benefit from their skills, no matter how much we might need them?

Also there is a question to why we haven't trained enough of these people ourselves and are we denying our own people golden oppotunity to advance themselves?

thats capitalism and the world economy for you and the way or the world , right or wrong thats the way it is

sludge aren't you just as guilty as the sun of scare mongering by saying the tories will stop foriegn nationals who are doctors and nurses from coming to this country

I hate statistics they can be manipulated how ever you want. Half of crime now goes unrecorded to keep down these crime figures. Even muggins dont get put down, if there is a lot one particular crime then its not recordrd just to keep these statistics down and then the Police tell uss crime is falling. BOLLOX TO STATISTICS we no it is broken Britain.

rubbish

crime is down

84.3% of statistics are completely made up.

I hate statistics they can be manipulated how ever you want. Half of crime now goes unrecorded to keep down these crime figures. Even muggins dont get put down, if there is a lot one particular crime then its not recordrd just to keep these statistics down and then the Police tell uss crime is falling. BOLLOX TO STATISTICS we no it is broken Britain.

rubbish

crime is down

84.3% of statistics are completely made up.

Free passports eh. Mine cost me over £100.
It's a f/kin joke.

free passport i've just paid £112 for mine!

Follow Australia's lead. Unless you have a skill or something to offer then you aren't allowed in. I know it's harsh on those who are seeking asylum after being convicted against in their own country but we need to save ourselves before we save the world. I am against a total ban on immigration because immigration has always shaped our lives. Annis you have ancestors from abroad, as do I, as do most of our members and compatriots.

However, we need to get our house in order. Saying that, we also need to address the issue of all those lay abouts who do f**k all except take our tax money.

the tories have done exactly the opposite

the clowns are putting caps on immigrants we need ( doctors and engineers and other skilled workers we need from places like india ) and doing nowt about the immigrants that offer nothing

they are full of shit the tories , all talk and no action

There is a view that there is a shortage of highly skilled professionals in the UK. The reality is that in many categories highly skilled unemployed British citizens find themselves competing with non-EU nationals for positions. This would most definitely not be the case in the US where the controls are much stricter. This does not seem to hamper the US economy which is recovering much faster than the UK economy.

Sludge will you not admit that the labour party lied their way both into power and while in power, thus I take the Sun before those Liars.

COULDNT AGREE MORE ANNIS, IT HAS TO STOP ,OR WE WILL BE IN ALL SORTS OF TROUBLE!!

Schools/Hospitals/Housing/Crime, Britain just hasnt got the resources any more.

crime is down annis and it was higher when the tories were in

car cime down

violent crime down

children a lot safer than they were 20 years ago , lowest rates of violence against kids in 25 years

we dont have any housing because the tories sold all the council houses

hospital building UP under labour

will be DOWN under your lot

sorry annis , thats the way it is


all this talk about labour spending all this money is rubbish , the vast majority of the debt is due to the recession which started a few years ago , leading to less income from tax due to unemployment
and from that less private investment

all around the world this has happened

Indeed, it is true to say that the economic crisis affecting the UK is part of a wider international problem. However, it is also true to say that the UK economy is now in one of the worst positions among developed economies for several reasons - most linked to Labour policies.

There is a generally accepted practice in well-managed economies that governments pay back public debt during better times and accept a limited amount of borrowing during tougher times. Labour took the view that their Government would borrow at ALL times. This explains why the new Government are now having to tackle an insane level of public borrowing and a veritable explosion in the budget deficit.

Sludge, the wealth creating part of the economy pays the bills and Labour completely forgot this reality as they expanded the public sector to an absurd scale in an effort to buy votes. The new Government must now roll this back. New Labour was just Old Labour in different clothing and the majority of Britons are glad to see the back of them.

The majority of Britons did not vote Tory, they voted for a left of centre party.

Todays shaky coalition is in its infancy and there's a lot of politiking going on. Sludge can no doubt speak for himself but I'm confident most rational posters would recognise what is happening i.e. the media are being spun in a manner not recognisable since the early Blair years, the difference being both the Libs and Tories are spinning independently of each other whilst maintaining a pretence of harmony.

Opinions are fine, but an unquestioning acceptance of what you read is a slippery slope.

The majority of Britons did not vote Tory, they voted for a left of centre party.

Todays shaky coalition is in its infancy and there's a lot of politiking going on. Sludge can no doubt speak for himself but I'm confident most rational posters would recognise what is happening i.e. the media are being spun in a manner not recognisable since the early Blair years, the difference being both the Libs and Tories are spinning independently of each other whilst maintaining a pretence of harmony.

Opinions are fine, but an unquestioning acceptance of what you read is a slippery slope.

Labour's mismanagement of the economy is a fact. They were rampant spenders with little or no experience of a day's work in the wealth-creating part of of our economy and a penchant for buying votes by expanding the public sector. I and the majority of Britons voted to reject this. I didn't need the media to tell me this.

The majority of Britons did not vote Tory, they voted for a left of centre party.

Todays shaky coalition is in its infancy and there's a lot of politiking going on. Sludge can no doubt speak for himself but I'm confident most rational posters would recognise what is happening i.e. the media are being spun in a manner not recognisable since the early Blair years, the difference being both the Libs and Tories are spinning independently of each other whilst maintaining a pretence of harmony.

Opinions are fine, but an unquestioning acceptance of what you read is a slippery slope.

Labour's mismanagement of the economy is a fact. They were rampant spenders with little or no experience of a day's work in the wealth-creating part of of our economy and a penchant for buying votes by expanding the public sector. I and the majority of Britons voted to reject this. I didn't need the media to tell me this.

The unelected PM was Kicked out by the Majority Fact. and thank god too no spin or lies involved.

sludge aren't you just as guilty as the sun of scare mongering by saying the tories will stop foriegn nationals who are doctors and nurses from coming to this country

no , because thats exactly whats going to happen under the tory plans

Sludge will you not admit that the labour party lied their way both into power and while in power, thus I take the Sun before those Liars.

in what way did labour lie their way into power ?


I can give you shed loads of examples of conservative governments and conservative mps lying through their arses

heres one ...jonathan aitken

The majority of Britons did not vote Tory, they voted for a left of centre party.

Todays shaky coalition is in its infancy and there's a lot of politiking going on. Sludge can no doubt speak for himself but I'm confident most rational posters would recognise what is happening i.e. the media are being spun in a manner not recognisable since the early Blair years, the difference being both the Libs and Tories are spinning independently of each other whilst maintaining a pretence of harmony.

Opinions are fine, but an unquestioning acceptance of what you read is a slippery slope.

Labour's mismanagement of the economy is a fact. They were rampant spenders with little or no experience of a day's work in the wealth-creating part of of our economy and a penchant for buying votes by expanding the public sector. I and the majority of Britons voted to reject this. I didn't need the media to tell me this.

The unelected PM was Kicked out by the Majority Fact. and thank god too no spin or lies involved.

the vast majority of this country DIDNT vote tory

thats a fact

and thats why they didnt get a majority

thank god for that

do you realise that john major was also unelected for a while when he was tory prime minister ?

no ?

Follow Australia's lead. Unless you have a skill or something to offer then you aren't allowed in. I know it's harsh on those who are seeking asylum after being convicted against in their own country but we need to save ourselves before we save the world. I am against a total ban on immigration because immigration has always shaped our lives. Annis you have ancestors from abroad, as do I, as do most of our members and compatriots.

However, we need to get our house in order. Saying that, we also need to address the issue of all those lay abouts who do f**k all except take our tax money.

the tories have done exactly the opposite

the clowns are putting caps on immigrants we need ( doctors and engineers and other skilled workers we need from places like india ) and doing nowt about the immigrants that offer nothing

they are full of shit the tories , all talk and no action

There is a view that there is a shortage of highly skilled professionals in the UK. The reality is that in many categories highly skilled unemployed British citizens find themselves competing with non-EU nationals for positions. This would most definitely not be the case in the US where the controls are much stricter. This does not seem to hamper the US economy which is recovering much faster than the UK economy.

lol

do you know why its recovering ?

I will tell you ..its because congress are pumping public money in to stimulate the economy ..and they are going to keep doing so

over here ?...we are cutting ..despite overwhelming evidence that doing so will do more harm than good

the deficit is not the mian problem..its stagnation caused by austerity

The majority of Britons did not vote Tory, they voted for a left of centre party.

Todays shaky coalition is in its infancy and there's a lot of politiking going on. Sludge can no doubt speak for himself but I'm confident most rational posters would recognise what is happening i.e. the media are being spun in a manner not recognisable since the early Blair years, the difference being both the Libs and Tories are spinning independently of each other whilst maintaining a pretence of harmony.

Opinions are fine, but an unquestioning acceptance of what you read is a slippery slope.

Labour's mismanagement of the economy is a fact. They were rampant spenders with little or no experience of a day's work in the wealth-creating part of of our economy and a penchant for buying votes by expanding the public sector. I and the majority of Britons voted to reject this. I didn't need the media to tell me this.

its a fact you seem to be getting all wrong


I will tell you again ..the vast majority of the deficit is not structural ..its recession based


we needed to pump money in to deal with this


I and the vast majority of britons voted NOT to have a tory majority

and thank god we didnt

you may not have needed the media to tell you something but you certainly seem to be spinning out the same line that the tories and their paymasters fed us before the election


vote for us ....we will cut


but the problem is not one of uncontrolled structural debt ..its caused mostly by the recession

in america they are putting public money into the economy even though its growing

here ..we have signed up to massive cuts that could well lead us into stagnation

I didnt vote for the clowns though , and nor did 60 percent of the country

The majority of Britons did not vote Tory, they voted for a left of centre party.

Todays shaky coalition is in its infancy and there's a lot of politiking going on. Sludge can no doubt speak for himself but I'm confident most rational posters would recognise what is happening i.e. the media are being spun in a manner not recognisable since the early Blair years, the difference being both the Libs and Tories are spinning independently of each other whilst maintaining a pretence of harmony.

Opinions are fine, but an unquestioning acceptance of what you read is a slippery slope.

you tell em sonny


before the election the right were telling us the markets would collapse if we didnt get a tory majority ..what happened ?..we didnt get one ( hurrah ) and things have been nowhere near as bad as they made out

but what is happening now is a return to tory cuts ..far more than we need and far too early

the recession is a WORLD RECESSION ......gordon browns attempts to prevent its worst effects are lauded even by those in the city of the right

he almost single handedly saved the world economy from total meltdown by his early work when it all went tits up ...read the tory led sunday times for its grudging acceptance of what he did !!

as was said a few weeks ago its very easy to critisise brown for the debt ( again its mostly recession caused and not structural ) but much of this was eaten up by his public funding of the recession ....we had no choice !!!

complaining about gordon brown as so many do without any real knowledge of the wider economic situation , worldwide ..is like a patient recovering from a major operation that has saved his life ..but still having a go at the doctor because of the scars from the stiches

Sludge will you not admit that the labour party lied their way both into power and while in power, thus I take the Sun before those Liars.

in what way did labour lie their way into power ?


I can give you shed loads of examples of conservative governments and conservative mps lying through their arses

heres one ...jonathan aitken

"If it falls to me to start a fight to cut out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism in our country with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play, so be it. I am ready for the fight. The fight against falsehood and those who peddle it. My fight begins today. Thank you and good afternoon." Johnathan Aitken April 1995.

He was later jailed for perjury in 1999 and served 7 months of an 18 month sentence. It later transpiered that he intended to make his daughter Victoria lie on oath for him if his libel trial hadn't already collapsed.

Looking at this from another angle isn't it immoral of this country to pinch Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc from third world countries who have their own people who could benefit from their skills, no matter how much we might need them?

Also there is a question to why we haven't trained enough of these people ourselves and are we denying our own people golden oppotunity to advance themselves?

thats capitalism and the world economy for you and the way or the world , right or wrong thats the way it is

I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong but that almost sounds like you defending capitalism Sludge?

actually the price for naturalisation is £750 and that is only to process the application wether successful or not,and you still have to then pay for a passport as normal.as for doing like australia its a damn cheek theyre now stopping people from going there when the state only exists thanks to theft of aboriginal land and their near extermination.also dont forget that this country was built upon exploitationnot only of foreigners but also natives and rebuilt after the war thanks to immigration how many foreign doctors and nurses work for the great british institution of the nhs?.also you dont have to be racist to have a sensible disscussion about immigration but its a funny thing that most immigrants go unnoticed even if they were latvian devil worshipping child molesters but if they had a bit too much of a tan or maybe a scarf on their head people seem to take notice.

Looking at this from another angle isn't it immoral of this country to pinch Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc from third world countries who have their own people who could benefit from their skills, no matter how much we might need them?

Also there is a question to why we haven't trained enough of these people ourselves and are we denying our own people golden oppotunity to advance themselves?

thats capitalism and the world economy for you and the way or the world , right or wrong thats the way it is

I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong but that almost sounds like you defending capitalism Sludge?

I certainly will correct you , the clue is in the wording " right or wrong , thats the way it is "

I believe in the redistribution of wealth and a mixed economy

but I dont rule the world

the money markets and capitalism does

and thats why us lefty liberal puffy go gooders must try to argue for as much money as possible to go into those less fortunate

but the reality is , money rules and if this country needs cheap labour and readily trained labour david camerons stance of being tough on immigration will soon fall on deaf ears and he will be told by the captains of industry to " open the gates " again

all political rubbish by the tories to stop people voting ukip

actually the price for naturalisation is £750 and that is only to process the application wether successful or not,and you still have to then pay for a passport as normal.as for doing like australia its a damn cheek theyre now stopping people from going there when the state only exists thanks to theft of aboriginal land and their near extermination.also dont forget that this country was built upon exploitationnot only of foreigners but also natives and rebuilt after the war thanks to immigration how many foreign doctors and nurses work for the great british institution of the nhs?.also you dont have to be racist to have a sensible disscussion about immigration but its a funny thing that most immigrants go unnoticed even if they were latvian devil worshipping child molesters but if they had a bit too much of a tan or maybe a scarf on their head people seem to take notice.

dont talk facts mate

as far as the sun and those that read it on here , the immigrants are getting free passports

dont argue !!

of course they are not getting free passports , but it gives people something to moan about

Sludge will you not admit that the labour party lied their way both into power and while in power, thus I take the Sun before those Liars.

in what way did labour lie their way into power ?


I can give you shed loads of examples of conservative governments and conservative mps lying through their arses

heres one ...jonathan aitken

"If it falls to me to start a fight to cut out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism in our country with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play, so be it. I am ready for the fight. The fight against falsehood and those who peddle it. My fight begins today. Thank you and good afternoon." Johnathan Aitken April 1995.

He was later jailed for perjury in 1999 and served 7 months of an 18 month sentence. It later transpiered that he intended to make his daughter Victoria lie on oath for him if his libel trial hadn't already collapsed.

them tories never lie , fair play

where did you get those stats Annis?

In The Sun Today when I was having my breakfast, Dont laugh but then I did a search to confirm it.

the sun

Sludge you can laugh about the sun, forget THE SUN, THIS COUNTRY IS FULL, FULL STOP