no plans to increase VAT - isn't that what Cameron said?

the torys are bullshitters and liars

cameron said they would deffo NOT increase VAT

already the fucker has done it

strike one

a few days before the budget osbourne said that they would not cut benefits to those in need furtehr than they stated in the manifesto ( that load of bullshit that some of you voted them in on )

and guess what ??

osbourne today on radio 4 said that " further " cuts to benefits " on top of those announced pre budget " would be made to benefits

strike two

f*cking bare faced back tracking and lies , just a few days after both of them said otherwise

well said , cameron did indeed say they wouldnt increase VAT and the fucker is a lying snake

When did he say that Sludge? I grant you he said they had no plans but that is not the same thing. It wasn't said in the manifesto (see below for my comments on Labour) so was of course always a possibility


On the subject of VAT I remember Paxman interviewing Ed Miliband after the Labour Manifesto came out. He pressed him to make the same promise on VAT as they had on Income tax ( remember they said they would not increase income tax for the lifetime of this parliament. Miliband refused saying that they couldn't make promises on all different types of taxes (just the main two would have done Ed!!) When pressed further by Paxman who was hinting that they would put up VAT he didn't say no just that the Tories had put it up before but that Labour hadn't dome so in the past 13 years. Which didn't of course mean that they couldn't put it up in the future.

Both parties knew damn well that it was almost a certainty that they would put VAT up.

Yet once again the conservatives are crippling the poor even more (e.g. family credit, child benefit).

Same old conservatives. They're f*cking snakes.

I dont understand how you can say they hit the porr. Increased child tax credits and a rise in personal alowances!!!

For each child the increase in Child Tax Credit works out at £3 p/w and the taxation personal allowance increase adds about £3 p/w if you benefit from the full £1,000 increase. The gains from both CCT & Taxation PA would be offset by anyone claiming housing or council tax benefit who would immeadately lose 65% of any gain.

Also families lose any inflation increase against Child Benefit for the next 3 years and it is estimated that the 2.5% increase in VAT will cost poorer families at least £500 p/a.

The poor have been hit for six by the backdoor as they always are under Tory Governments. This is just the start and I only hope the Lib Dems find a backbone before the lying evil twats start dismantleing the NHS which has to be the ultimate goal for the Nasty Party which is exactly what the Conservatives are.

£500 per annum extra on VAT. Rubbish.


An extra 2.5% means that you will pay and extra £2.50 on each £1000 you spend. Therefore you would need to spend £20,000 a year on goods that attracted VAT to pay an extra £500

That's a pretty well off poor family!!!!!

Elwood Blues wrote;

£500 per annum extra on VAT. Rubbish.


An extra 2.5% means that you will pay and extra £2.50 on each £1000 you spend. Therefore you would need to spend £20,000 a year on goods that attracted VAT to pay an extra £500

That's a pretty well off poor family!!!!!

You may want to check your maths as a 2.5% increase in VAT will have this effect;

+2.5p on every £1 spent
+25p on every £10 spent
£2.5 on every £100 spent

Mr Osbourne said yesterday that there would be no increase on duty on fuel, fags % booze, not quite true as there will be an increase of for example 3p per litre on petrol or an additional £1.80 every time you fill up a car with a 60Ltr tank.

Any increase in fuel costs will result in an increase in transport costs for most anything you buy, including food, expect ASDA , TESCO or whoever to pass that on straight away.

You will soon be paying that extra £500 - ouch!!!!!

£500 per annum extra on VAT. Rubbish.


An extra 2.5% on VAT means that you will pay and extra £2.50 on each £1000 you spend. Therefore you would need to spend £20,000 a year on goods that attracted VAT to pay an extra £500

That's a pretty well off poor family!!!!!

The £500 was an average of all VAT payers but I wouldn't be surprised if most poorer families do pay between £10-15,000 p/a on VAT rated goods, such as petrol (or transport), white goods, gas/electric, furniture etc.

As pointed out even 0% rated goods such as food and childrens clothes won't escape big price rises because food prices always rise when petrol prices go up due mostly to transport cost, so that again would have an effect.

I think the £500 estimation is about right and the flimsey rises in Child Tax Credits/Tax Personal Allownaces (Which BTW don't come into force until 4 months AFTER the VAT rise) means the poor have again been the whipping boys of the Tories.

When did he say that Sludge? I grant you he said they had no plans but that is not the same thing. It wasn't said in the manifesto (see below for my comments on Labour) so was of course always a possibility


On the subject of VAT I remember Paxman interviewing Ed Miliband after the Labour Manifesto came out. He pressed him to make the same promise on VAT as they had on Income tax ( remember they said they would not increase income tax for the lifetime of this parliament. Miliband refused saying that they couldn't make promises on all different types of taxes (just the main two would have done Ed!!) When pressed further by Paxman who was hinting that they would put up VAT he didn't say no just that the Tories had put it up before but that Labour hadn't dome so in the past 13 years. Which didn't of course mean that they couldn't put it up in the future.

Both parties knew damn well that it was almost a certainty that they would put VAT up.

Labour might or might not have put VAT up at some point over the next Parliament, but what we do know is they were fully committed to not doing so this year (remember they had already set out their plans in the March budget).

Labour's plans were always to allow the economy another year to recover before implementing debt reduction measures which certainly wouldn't have hit the poor in the same way as Osborne’s disgusting stunt did yesterday.

Elwood Blues wrote;

£500 per annum extra on VAT. Rubbish.


An extra 2.5% means that you will pay and extra £2.50 on each £1000 you spend. Therefore you would need to spend £20,000 a year on goods that attracted VAT to pay an extra £500

That's a pretty well off poor family!!!!!

You may want to check your maths as a 2.5% increase in VAT will have this effect;

+2.5p on every £1 spent
+25p on every £10 spent
£2.5 on every £100 spent

Mr Osbourne said yesterday that there would be no increase on duty on fuel, fags % booze, not quite true as there will be an increase of for example 3p per litre on petrol or an additional £1.80 every time you fill up a car with a 60Ltr tank.

Any increase in fuel costs will result in an increase in transport costs for most anything you buy, including food, expect ASDA , TESCO or whoever to pass that on straight away.

You will soon be paying that extra £500 - ouch!!!!!

A typing mistake I meant to put £25.00 on every £1000 spent.

There may be some effect on food prices, but it is such a competitive market out there that I am not sure it will be very much.

When did he say that Sludge? I grant you he said they had no plans but that is not the same thing. It wasn't said in the manifesto (see below for my comments on Labour) so was of course always a possibility


On the subject of VAT I remember Paxman interviewing Ed Miliband after the Labour Manifesto came out. He pressed him to make the same promise on VAT as they had on Income tax ( remember they said they would not increase income tax for the lifetime of this parliament. Miliband refused saying that they couldn't make promises on all different types of taxes (just the main two would have done Ed!!) When pressed further by Paxman who was hinting that they would put up VAT he didn't say no just that the Tories had put it up before but that Labour hadn't dome so in the past 13 years. Which didn't of course mean that they couldn't put it up in the future.

Both parties knew damn well that it was almost a certainty that they would put VAT up.

Labour might or might not have put VAT up at some point over the next Parliament, but what we do know is they were fully committed to not doing so this year (remember they had already set out their plans in the March budget).

Labour's plans were always to allow the economy another year to recover before implementing debt reduction measures which certainly wouldn't have hit the poor in the same way as Osborne’s disgusting stunt did yesterday.

How on earth do you know Labour's measure next year wouldn't have hit the poor. Don't forget that they had started when they were starting to get much stricter on people on Incapacity Benefit. Only a short step from there to those on DLA.

And we don't know that they were fully committed to not putting up VAT this year. What would have stopped them bringing in an emergency budget of their own?

Well the entrance to football matches will now prob have to go up

When did he say that Sludge? I grant you he said they had no plans but that is not the same thing. It wasn't said in the manifesto (see below for my comments on Labour) so was of course always a possibility


On the subject of VAT I remember Paxman interviewing Ed Miliband after the Labour Manifesto came out. He pressed him to make the same promise on VAT as they had on Income tax ( remember they said they would not increase income tax for the lifetime of this parliament. Miliband refused saying that they couldn't make promises on all different types of taxes (just the main two would have done Ed!!) When pressed further by Paxman who was hinting that they would put up VAT he didn't say no just that the Tories had put it up before but that Labour hadn't dome so in the past 13 years. Which didn't of course mean that they couldn't put it up in the future.

Both parties knew damn well that it was almost a certainty that they would put VAT up.

Labour might or might not have put VAT up at some point over the next Parliament, but what we do know is they were fully committed to not doing so this year (remember they had already set out their plans in the March budget).

Labour's plans were always to allow the economy another year to recover before implementing debt reduction measures which certainly wouldn't have hit the poor in the same way as Osborne’s disgusting stunt did yesterday.

How on earth do you know Labour's measure next year wouldn't have hit the poor. Don't forget that they had started when they were starting to get much stricter on people on Incapacity Benefit. Only a short step from there to those on DLA.

And we don't know that they were fully committed to not putting up VAT this year. What would have stopped them bringing in an emergency budget of their own?

the tories are going to being in much much harsher medical tests on incapacity benefit , far harsher than labour.......

for those that say " good !! " just remember it might be that one day you fall ill or have an accident at work

Well the entrance to football matches will now prob have to go up

well you voted for them annis

and this is what they have done

too late to complain now

How on earth do you know Labour's measure next year wouldn't have hit the poor. Don't forget that they had started when they were starting to get much stricter on people on Incapacity Benefit. Only a short step from there to those on DLA.

And we don't know that they were fully committed to not putting up VAT this year. What would have stopped them bringing in an emergency budget of their own?

Speculating what Labour 'might' have done next year had they stayed in power doesn't validate what the Tories are doing to the poor now. Labour were at least delaying austerity measures for 12 months to protect the impact on the less well off and when they were introduced in 12 months time the economy might have been in a far stronger position due to the recovery, meaning less cuts being required.

Labour had no need for another emergency budget because they had already laid out their plans in their own budget in March, unlike the Tories who needed a budget to punish the less well off like they always do.

I don't think anyone disagrees that both IB & DLA need overhauling to ensure that those in receipt of the benefits are entitled instead of hoodwinking the system, but what is driving the Tories is a cost cutting exercise not entitlement which is bound to affect many borderline cases and cause them terrible hardship.

I can remember the Tories doing this before in the early 1990's and the main victims were those who suffered with mental health issues. Make no bones about it these people are as unwell as anyone with a physical disability and were without mercy thrown off IB and told to get jobs, where many just couldn't cope.

I clash with Sludge on many issues but on this one he is absolutely right. None of us know what is around the corner and one day every single one of us might be extremely glad that there are safety nets in place to help us, unless of course the Tories finally get their ultimate way and dismantle the whole frigging lot.

How on earth do you know Labour's measure next year wouldn't have hit the poor. Don't forget that they had started when they were starting to get much stricter on people on Incapacity Benefit. Only a short step from there to those on DLA.

And we don't know that they were fully committed to not putting up VAT this year. What would have stopped them bringing in an emergency budget of their own?

the tories are going to being in much much harsher medical tests on incapacity benefit , far harsher than labour.......

for those that say " good !! " just remember it might be that one day you fall ill or have an accident at work

Where have you seen this about the medical tests that the Tories are going to use then Sludge?

widely available and reported in the times , guardian ..type in Ian Duncan Smith , welfare reform

people on IB are going to be transferred to employment support allowance from october

people who become " ill " are going to be facing far stricter testing under these tests

the labour govt were increasing testing anyway ..I am sure we have got no problem with that ..but the new tests are going to be far more intense and its feared people who are genuinely ill will be either denied benefit or kicked off existing claims

labour were going to be piloting new tests from this october ..the tories are saying they will be bringing in stricter tests and people who miss the boat as it were will be forced onto job seekers allowance ..which will of course save the govt ...£ 65 ..instead of £90 if they are on sickness

but thats a bit of a nightmare for people who are genuinely ill ...less benefit and forced to declare they are looking for work in order to get their money ( less than before )

I am sure we are all for cutting out the cheats but the disabled are an easy target

How on earth do you know Labour's measure next year wouldn't have hit the poor. Don't forget that they had started when they were starting to get much stricter on people on Incapacity Benefit. Only a short step from there to those on DLA.

And we don't know that they were fully committed to not putting up VAT this year. What would have stopped them bringing in an emergency budget of their own?

Speculating what Labour 'might' have done next year had they stayed in power doesn't validate what the Tories are doing to the poor now. Labour were at least delaying austerity measures for 12 months to protect the impact on the less well off and when they were introduced in 12 months time the economy might have been in a far stronger position due to the recovery, meaning less cuts being required.

Labour had no need for another emergency budget because they had already laid out their plans in their own budget in March, unlike the Tories who needed a budget to punish the less well off like they always do.

I don't think anyone disagrees that both IB & DLA need overhauling to ensure that those in receipt of the benefits are entitled instead of hoodwinking the system, but what is driving the Tories is a cost cutting exercise not entitlement which is bound to affect many borderline cases and cause them terrible hardship.

I can remember the Tories doing this before in the early 1990's and the main victims were those who suffered with mental health issues. Make no bones about it these people are as unwell as anyone with a physical disability and were without mercy thrown off IB and told to get jobs, where many just couldn't cope.

I clash with Sludge on many issues but on this one he is absolutely right. None of us know what is around the corner and one day every single one of us might be extremely glad that there are safety nets in place to help us, unless of course the Tories finally get their ultimate way and dismantle the whole frigging lot.

I think thats a pretty fair summary

there is a difference bwteen cutting down on waste and weeding out the work shy and lead swingers..although just because people will say " I know dave bloggs who is always doing odd jobs on the dole " ...doesnt mean they are all at it

and basically just cutting the entitlement of people

more support for part time work ..great

helping disabled people into work ..great

but just slashing people off benefit because last year a doctor , an expert ..says that person shouldnt be working ..but a new test..brought in by civil servants , not doctors ...says you can ..thats bollocks

these new medical tests will see people who might have chronic conditions ..back pain ..diabetes ,,arthritis ..and the of these conditions lessened by drugs ..in front of the testing team and because on the day they are tested they seem " ok " ..they are told they are fit to work

forget the days that they are in agony

its no way to treat people

as I say , kick off the scroungers , thats fair enough

Well the entrance to football matches will now prob have to go up

well you voted for them annis

and this is what they have done

too late to complain now

THE Conservatives are only trying to repair the Damage Labour has done.

thats what they always say

you voted for them , they have increased VAT

if that affects our crowds then its too late to whinge about it now

:lol:

thats what they always say

you voted for them , they have increased VAT

if that affects our crowds then its too late to whinge about it now

Its THANKS TO LABOUR THEY HAVE HAD TOO

you should work for the welsh conservatives annis

you should work for the welsh conservatives annis

No thanks theyve got no chance in Wales .

aye , the twats

only kidding

I get a little fed up with people sasying that labour let us down and its all Grodon Brown's fault.
Personally i dont think Gordon Brown was a great leader of the labour party, but he did a great
job as chancellor and kept the ship afloat from years of f*cking thatcher. All our depts are from
that era of governments over the years and we are now seeing the benefits, or lack of as the case
may be.
All those people who voted lib dems and tory, as sludge said earlier, when they attack you, only then
will you take voting seriously, when we are waiting for hours at a hospital to see a doctor.
The tories look after themselves and their like only, dont be mistaken.
After the 1984/85 miners strike, thatcher put this country into a massive hole that spiralled out of control
and we have yet to recover from it, and for what, people defending their right to work.
This latest group of fruitcakes will demolish this country to the point of no return, but dont worry,
hopefully there will be another election called within 12 months and then we can analyse each MP and vote
the right people in.
By the way I did not vote Labour.

widely available and reported in the times , guardian ..type in Ian Duncan Smith , welfare reform

people on IB are going to be transferred to employment support allowance from october

people who become " ill " are going to be facing far stricter testing under these tests

the labour govt were increasing testing anyway ..I am sure we have got no problem with that ..but the new tests are going to be far more intense and its feared people who are genuinely ill will be either denied benefit or kicked off existing claims

labour were going to be piloting new tests from this october ..the tories are saying they will be bringing in stricter tests and people who miss the boat as it were will be forced onto job seekers allowance ..which will of course save the govt ...£ 65 ..instead of £90 if they are on sickness

but thats a bit of a nightmare for people who are genuinely ill ...less benefit and forced to declare they are looking for work in order to get their money ( less than before )

I am sure we are all for cutting out the cheats but the disabled are an easy target

Sludge

My reading up about these new tests suggest to me that while they are tougher than the existing ones the tories are in fact going to be introducing the new tests that Labour have been trialling for the last couple of years.

See the attached article in the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -work.html


Now I believe that any new tests should be fair and I would hope that before they are introduced the new government looks at them carefully to see that they are not too strict which the article suggests that they are. on the other side of the coin they shouldn't be so lax so that Uncle Tom Cobley and all can pass them.

But I'm sorry Sludge It seems to me that on this issue you can't accuse the tories of being tougher that the last lot because they are using the same new tests!!!


If you can find any evidence to suggest otherwise but the various ones I have looked at lead me to the same conclusions as above.

Regards


Elwood

I get a little fed up with people sasying that labour let us down and its all Grodon Brown's fault.
Personally i dont think Gordon Brown was a great leader of the labour party, but he did a great
job as chancellor and kept the ship afloat from years of f*cking thatcher. All our depts are from
that era of governments over the years and we are now seeing the benefits, or lack of as the case
may be.
All those people who voted lib dems and tory, as sludge said earlier, when they attack you, only then
will you take voting seriously, when we are waiting for hours at a hospital to see a doctor.
The tories look after themselves and their like only, dont be mistaken.
After the 1984/85 miners strike, thatcher put this country into a massive hole that spiralled out of control
and we have yet to recover from it, and for what, people defending their right to work.
This latest group of fruitcakes will demolish this country to the point of no return, but dont worry,
hopefully there will be another election called within 12 months and then we can analyse each MP and vote
the right people in.
By the way I did not vote Labour.

I think it is fairly generally accepted that John Major and Ken Clarke left the economy in a very healthy state when they were kicked out

In his early years Gordon Brown seemed to build on this good work, but things certainly went downhill in his last few years and I don't think you can blame Mrs Thatcher for that!!!

widely available and reported in the times , guardian ..type in Ian Duncan Smith , welfare reform

people on IB are going to be transferred to employment support allowance from october

people who become " ill " are going to be facing far stricter testing under these tests

the labour govt were increasing testing anyway ..I am sure we have got no problem with that ..but the new tests are going to be far more intense and its feared people who are genuinely ill will be either denied benefit or kicked off existing claims

labour were going to be piloting new tests from this october ..the tories are saying they will be bringing in stricter tests and people who miss the boat as it were will be forced onto job seekers allowance ..which will of course save the govt ...£ 65 ..instead of £90 if they are on sickness

but thats a bit of a nightmare for people who are genuinely ill ...less benefit and forced to declare they are looking for work in order to get their money ( less than before )

I am sure we are all for cutting out the cheats but the disabled are an easy target

Sludge

My reading up about these new tests suggest to me that while they are tougher than the existing ones the tories are in fact going to be introducing the new tests that Labour have been trialling for the last couple of years.

See the attached article in the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -work.html


Now I believe that any new tests should be fair and I would hope that before they are introduced the new government looks at them carefully to see that they are not too strict which the article suggests that they are. on the other side of the coin they shouldn't be so lax so that Uncle Tom Cobley and all can pass them.

But I'm sorry Sludge It seems to me that on this issue you can't accuse the tories of being tougher that the last lot because they are using the same new tests!!!


If you can find any evidence to suggest otherwise but the various ones I have looked at lead me to the same conclusions as above.

Regards


Elwood

In fact I was a bit mistaken above. The new tests have already been introduced for new claimants. The tories now plan to roll them out so that all existing claimants have to take them.

Lots of people talking lots of rubbish in this thread. Can't be arsed to get into a political debate at this time of night. However look at this.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&cl ... at&spell=1

Lots of people talking lots of rubbish in this thread. Can't be arsed to get into a political debate at this time of night. However look at this.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&cl ... at&spell=1

Like I said "no plans to increase VAT - isn't that what Cameron said? - turns out a simple google would answer the question, well well well, he said it loadsa times and the Lib Dems were campaigning against a rise in VAT. How can they look their voters in the face?

Lots of people talking lots of rubbish in this thread. Can't be arsed to get into a political debate at this time of night. However look at this.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&cl ... at&spell=1

Like I said "no plans to increase VAT - isn't that what Cameron said? - turns out a simple google would answer the question, well well well, he said it loadsa times and the Lib Dems were campaigning against a rise in VAT. How can they look their voters in the face?

I think you may've missed the point of the link mate.

I was referring to the second result down.

Lots of people talking lots of rubbish in this thread. Can't be arsed to get into a political debate at this time of night. However look at this.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&cl ... at&spell=1

Like I said "no plans to increase VAT - isn't that what Cameron said? - turns out a simple google would answer the question, well well well, he said it loadsa times and the Lib Dems were campaigning against a rise in VAT. How can they look their voters in the face?

I think you may've missed the point of the link mate.

I was referring to the second result down.

f**k me 2nd top from google