"DAVE JONES CAME BACK FROM MALAYSIA"

No he wasn't the custodian of the club, he was the owner of the club, they were his players, well at least 82% of them were, look it up under business law section marked ownership (oh I had a TLG moment then)

In all the year that Sam owned football clubs, he never once got relegated, when he was at Wimbledon for the 12 years or so they were there over that period thay had the eighth best record out of all the clubs dring that period, and that was with 2,000 fans and no stadium, not to bad a record.

Gwyn every word youve just said is a FACT and No one can argue it one bit.

IT WAS SAM's ACADEMY.

No he wasn't the custodian of the club, he was the owner of the club, they were his players, well at least 82% of them were, look it up under business law section marked ownership (oh I had a TLG moment then)

well thats even more of a case of him taking complete responsibility for the debts run up then !

you cant blame the council for ever

In all the year that Sam owned football clubs, he never once got relegated, when he was at Wimbledon for the 12 years or so they were there over that period thay had the eighth best record out of all the clubs dring that period, and that was with 2,000 fans and no stadium, not to bad a record.

with respect your view of sam hammam differs from wimbledon fans

after all he said he tried to get the club a new ground but merton council said he failed to come up with a viable plan

which sounds familar

we were one or two games from being relegated under sam hammam and had massive debts

I think the bloke did a lot of good for cardiff city but seriously I think sometimes people are not prepared to see him critisised

Gwyn every word youve just said is a FACT and No one can argue it one bit.

IT WAS SAM's ACADEMY.

I am doing my best annis

Gwyn every word youve just said is a FACT and No one can argue it one bit.

IT WAS SAM's ACADEMY.

I am doing my best annis

I know sludge .

My house is worth £120,000 pounds and I have £20,000 left on my mortgage, if its own up time, then I to must take responsibility coz I to have a debt, my assets may be greater than my debt, but I have a debt, isn't that how business's work as well.

Are there any clubs in the highest level who are debt free?

indeed

but in the same way ridsdale was given the bird for running up debts..and thank god hes gone .. then its only fair that sam hammam must alos be subject to his role in things

the blame can be laid on bad signings , injuries etc but all clubs have to deal with that

at the end of the day sam failed to come up with a viable plan for the stadium

the line that it was the council who let cardiff city down has been used many times

when sam was at wimbledon he was given outline planning permission for a stadium

the planing required him to make improvements to the area

merton council say he just never came up with how he was going to do it

its sounds very familiar to what happened here

sam was let down by the fans in south wales , they never turned up in the numbers we all thought they would do

but after the council and he were unable to work together , he told the wimbledon fans they had to move to selhurst park

but the football league had actually given wimbledon 5 years to improve the ground

My house is worth £120,000 pounds and I have £20,000 left on my mortgage, if its own up time, then I to must take responsibility coz I to have a debt, my assets may be greater than my debt, but I have a debt, isn't that how business's work as well.

Are there any clubs in the highest level who are debt free?

Very good point Gwyn

I think Sam had a viable plan, because it was his plans that got the stadium built, they were concerned that there would be a shortfall of the funds needed, yet allowed PR to go thru with it and then suprise suprise there was a massive multi million pound over spend. I think it was more a case of anti rugby and calling the Major a short Scottish poof, also Sam din't kiss as much Council Arse has PR or possibly have as many fellow friends or Masons on Board as did PMG.

The debt Sam ran up wasn't blown on extravagences, but on over paid players trying to rush us thru the Leagues.

The Wimbledon fiasco if you look thru history was similar to Cardiff in as much as Merton Council had agreed original plans and before things could get started the local Council was voted out and replaced by a Tory council who put more obstacles in the way than a pac man machine.

cardiff city council knew what happened at wimbledon and sams clear failure to deliver there

lets not deny that

and of course calling mr berman a poof wasnt going to help

I think Sam had a viable plan, because it was his plans that got the stadium built, they were concerned that there would be a shortfall of the funds needed, yet allowed PR to go thru with it and then suprise suprise there was a massive multi million pound over spend. I think it was more a case of anti rugby and calling the Major a short Scottish poof, also Sam din't kiss as much Council Arse has PR or possibly have as many fellow friends or Masons on Board as did PMG.

The debt Sam ran up wasn't blown on extravagences, but on over paid players trying to rush us thru the Leagues.

The Wimbledon fiasco if you look thru history was similar to Cardiff in as much as Merton Council had agreed original plans and before things could get started the local Council was voted out and replaced by a Tory council who put more obstacles in the way than a pac man machine.

Gwyn

At no time did Sam come up with a viable business plan for the stadium.Despite several requests over a long period of time from the Council for him to show how he was going to raise the money for the basic build project (let alone the fitting out bits) he refused/was unable to do so.He was given every opportunity to do so , but didn`t. All this is clearly shown in the published Council papers.

It was this that was the overriding factor in Sam failing to get the stadium build actually approved for starting construction although I agree that it didn`t help calling the leader of the Council a short Scottish poof (people who were there tell me that the actual words he used were nowhere near that polite ).

The Merton decision re Wimbledon was also not as you describe it. Again Sam failed to meet many of the conditions that he promised to despite being given time (and money) to do so - and it took the council years to recover the money from him after the scheme collapsed (again the facts are a matter of public record.

Ridsdale was no better than Sam (in many ways I would say he was far worse in terms of his over extravagance) , but was just lucky that he COULD eventually produce the evidence of funding thanks to the PMG money which sealed the deal. He did get an easy ride from Berman (no pun intended) it would seem as many others involved in the deal at the time had far less belief in Ridsdale`s abilities than Berman (who might have been desperate by that point to get the new stadium built to save face and be able to boast another facility for the city of Cardiff).

Ridsdale was a disaster for our club (very nearly a total one) but I don`t think Sam was quite as unfortunate in his dealings with authority that your post suggests.

Keith

While I do agree we lack a leader on the pitch DJ did try to rectify this last season by bringing in 3 players who had all captains there clubs. Hudson his last 3 clubs and Quinn and Gerrard had been captains. Sadly none of them have stood up to the plate in that role.

I think Sam had a viable plan, because it was his plans that got the stadium built, they were concerned that there would be a shortfall of the funds needed, yet allowed PR to go thru with it and then suprise suprise there was a massive multi million pound over spend. I think it was more a case of anti rugby and calling the Major a short Scottish poof, also Sam din't kiss as much Council Arse has PR or possibly have as many fellow friends or Masons on Board as did PMG.

The debt Sam ran up wasn't blown on extravagences, but on over paid players trying to rush us thru the Leagues.

The Wimbledon fiasco if you look thru history was similar to Cardiff in as much as Merton Council had agreed original plans and before things could get started the local Council was voted out and replaced by a Tory council who put more obstacles in the way than a pac man machine.

Gwyn

At no time did Sam come up with a viable business plan for the stadium.Despite several requests over a long period of time from the Council for him to show how he was going to raise the money for the basic build project (let alone the fitting out bits) he refused/was unable to do so.He was given every opportunity to do so , but didn`t. All this is clearly shown in the published Council papers.

agreed

It was this that was the overriding factor in Sam failing to get the stadium build actually approved for starting construction although I agree that it didn`t help calling the leader of the Council a short Scottish poof (people who were there tell me that the actual words he used were nowhere near that polite ).

probably not the best approach

The Merton decision re Wimbledon was also not as you describe it. Again Sam failed to meet many of the conditions that he promised to despite being given time (and money) to do so - and it took the council years to recover the money from him after the scheme collapsed (again the facts are a matter of public record.

thats basically whats said in the wimbledon supporter book of the whole saga and the daily mirror fella who reported on wimbledon for the paper

he also told the fans that they ahd to move when in fact they had 5 years to do something about the ground !!

Ridsdale was no better than Sam (in many ways I would say he was far worse in terms of his over extravagance) , but was just lucky that he COULD eventually produce the evidence of funding thanks to the PMG money which sealed the deal. He did get an easy ride from Berman (no pun intended) it would seem as many others involved in the deal at the time had far less belief in Ridsdale`s abilities than Berman (who might have been desperate by that point to get the new stadium built to save face and be able to boast another facility for the city of Cardiff).

Ridsdale was a disaster for our club (very nearly a total one) but I don`t think Sam was quite as unfortunate in his dealings with authority that your post suggests.

I agree


ridsdale overspent on silly players ..he was rightly slagged off for that

sam did the same ....people just wont accept it !!

Keith

DJ could still walk.

Not a happy bunny, as he has been told he has to be patient regarding funds being made available.
But surely he knew that there was over £30 million worth of Debts to be paid left behind from his partner in crime Peter Ridsdale(Just a bit of Sarcasm ).
The Malaysians have already cleared £6 Million of Debt, are standing strong on Our Star players, unless we receive a mad bid.
They still now have a £30 million debt to clear, which is why This Forum Campaigned so much against The Riddler and Co as we knew behind scenes that these Debts were there and the longer he stayed the more they would rise.

There is a £3 Million debt which has to be cleared immediately and wages to be found from September onwards, The loan bid for Bellamy was sanctioned as there was no upfront fees, but Dave Jones does not have the war chest that he expected that he would of had.

Dave Jones, in my opinion should perform miracles when your wage including National insurance is over an incredible £900,000 a year, which includes some shares.
But rem he has got one of the BEST First eleven in this division in my opinion.

My personally view is there is no football leader at our club and I STRONGLY BELIEVE WE NEED ONE NOW.

DJ is good at finding players, we need to pick up the future premiership players before the premier clubs, like the New Cameron Jerome and the new Roger Johnson, DJ has done this before and can do it again!!!!

While I do agree we lack a leader on the pitch DJ did try to rectify this last season by bringing in 3 players who had all captains there clubs. Hudson his last 3 clubs and Quinn and Gerrard had been captains. Sadly none of them have stood up to the plate in that role.

Don't you think you are being a little unfair as the sid eimproved last season after the heartbreak of the year before - and finished in the highest position for 40 years !

All this with the players not knowing if they were going to get paid on time (and often not), a transfer embargo and a sometimes crippling injury list, with kids having to play key roles in major games. Smashing the Worzels home and away and beating the Jacks for the first time in many years as a bonus.

Surely even if you don't rate Hudson as a player he deserves a bit of credit for keeping the players pulling together and getting us SO close to going up despite all that was going on. In fairness the players seemed to pull together even when the going got tough. Gerard and even quinn showed real balls when they were called on especially toward the end of the season.

I'm glad i don't work for some of you guys !!

ridsdale overspent on silly players ..he was rightly slagged off for that

sam did the same ....people just wont accept it !!

Keith[/quote][/quote]


You're right.

Look at the money and wages for Thorne and Kav, great players but we paid miles over the odds.

Then there was Gavin Gordon, Alan Lee, Rhys Weston, Spencer Prior, Andy Campbell and many many more.

As for not 'ass-licking' the council, then thats was his mistake. Sometimes in business you have to do the unpalatable thing to succeed. If he wasn't prepared to do that, then he wasn't doing his best for us.


It's time to move on from both of them.

I think eveyone accepts day to day running costs, some players will increase in value some decrease, some get injured and don't play or make it, same everywhere and all part of the game, but at the end of the day, if you leave a business with 24 million pounds debt yet there are 36 million pounds worth of players your aquired players there, it seems good business to me, that,s without looking at how much was spent on the improvements and the planning for the news stadium etc as stated earlier.

And as for pay off's to sacked managers, I can gaurantee you, all added up together it is still less thgan we had to pay Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank.

The Jimmy Floyd debacle still narks me to this day. PR should have been investigated there & then, he should have been busted out of our club two years ago!

ridsdale overspent on silly players ..he was rightly slagged off for that

sam did the same ....people just wont accept it !!

Keith

[/quote]


You're right.

Look at the money and wages for Thorne and Kav, great players but we paid miles over the odds.

Then there was Gavin Gordon, Alan Lee, Rhys Weston, Spencer Prior, Andy Campbell and many many more.

As for not 'ass-licking' the council, then thats was his mistake. Sometimes in business you have to do the unpalatable thing to succeed. If he wasn't prepared to do that, then he wasn't doing his best for us.


It's time to move on from both of them.[/quote]


too right

I am sorry guys but hes part of history now

and both he and ridsdale mades tupid and reckless mistakes whilst running the club

sorry if you dont like that , but its true

The Jimmy Floyd debacle still narks me to this day. PR should have been investigated there & then, he should have been busted out of our club two years ago!

I agree

but after this we had plenty of fans telling us to stick with him

we also had the same when suspisions were first being raised about sams spending

Sorry Sludge,

The Riddler is part of our History and Good Riddance to him.
But Sam is Owed £10 Million and at some point it will have to be paid, he is Our Biggest Creditor whether you like it or not.

It always puzzeled me why JFH was not given the option of playing a second season with us, even after his "gentlemans agreement" with PR. Could it be that PR had already sanctioned the Eddie Johnson season long loan even before pre season training commenced on the 1st July 2008?

Sorry Sludge,

The Riddler is part of our History and Good Riddance to him.
But Sam is Owed £10 Million and at some point it will have to be paid, he is Our Biggest Creditor whether you like it or not.

That is true. But thats it now.

Sooner its paid off the better.

Sam had the vision, but he blew it. I will look back at the early years he was here and say I really enjoyed them, but he nearly destroyed us, and lets not forget that HE was the man ho brought Ridsdale to the club in the first place.

Right now I'm pleased with our owners and am intrigued as to what THEY plan to do rather than what ent on before - and yes, you are right 100% dealing with the debt owed to Sam is one of the major issues they face. I'll be suprised if they don't take a new loan out and cover Sam's money with that.

Question for all - ho would you feel if we sold Chopra, Whittingham and Matthews and se the money to pay Sam off ?

I wouldnt like it as we'd weaken our squad, but I think I'd accept it to get the debt off our back once and for all.

Sorry Sludge,

The Riddler is part of our History and Good Riddance to him.
But Sam is Owed £10 Million and at some point it will have to be paid, he is Our Biggest Creditor whether you like it or not.

and once sam is paid off, good riddance to him too !!

It always puzzeled me why JFH was not given the option of playing a second season with us, even after his "gentlemans agreement" with PR. Could it be that PR had already sanctioned the Eddie Johnson season long loan even before pre season training commenced on the 1st July 2008?

I am glad he wasnt

he was a bust flush

useless in the cup final

money for old rope

Sorry Sludge,

The Riddler is part of our History and Good Riddance to him.
But Sam is Owed £10 Million and at some point it will have to be paid, he is Our Biggest Creditor whether you like it or not.

That is true. But thats it now.

Sooner its paid off the better.

Sam had the vision, but he blew it. I will look back at the early years he was here and say I really enjoyed them, but he nearly destroyed us, and lets not forget that HE was the man ho brought Ridsdale to the club in the first place.

sam did indeed have the vision ..but blew it

I enjoyed the early years but he should have put brake on things and told us as soon as we got to the championhsip that players needed to be sold

he was let down by the local business, he was let down by city " fans " who failed to pack out ninian park

but thats by the by



Right now I'm pleased with our owners and am intrigued as to what THEY plan to do rather than what ent on before - and yes, you are right 100% dealing with the debt owed to Sam is one of the major issues they face. I'll be suprised if they don't take a new loan out and cover Sam's money with that.

Question for all - ho would you feel if we sold Chopra, Whittingham and Matthews and se the money to pay Sam off ?


they wouldnt blame sam , it would all be ridsdales fault

when the truth is they both steered the ship into the minefields

I wouldnt like it as we'd weaken our squad, but I think I'd accept it to get the debt off our back once and for all.

It always puzzeled me why JFH was not given the option of playing a second season with us, even after his "gentlemans agreement" with PR. Could it be that PR had already sanctioned the Eddie Johnson season long loan even before pre season training commenced on the 1st July 2008?

I am glad he wasnt

he was a bust flush

useless in the cup final

money for old rope

Maybe Sludge, but had he played as a squad player, instead of Eddie, i am convinced we would have made the play offs end of that season.