THE GOVERNMENT SAYS AND THE PREVIOUS GOVT

There is nothing more frustrating than having a debate/discussion with anybody who will not listen to what you are saying. You can agree to disagree but please have the courtesy to acknowledge previous standpoints. Annis, you keep bringing things around to immigration and you keep saying it is 'Labour debt'. Immigration is a misnomer for reasons already expressed on this thread and seemingly endless threads previously. As for the 'Labour debt', I watched the budget speech and Osborne himself admitted the banks caused the crisis, I'm only surprised more wasn't made of it. The exaggerated perilous state of the finances are being used as a smokescreen for the impending ideological changes that are going to take place. The Tories are dishonourable liars who have a completely seperate agenda to what they talk about. The only surprise was/still is the Liberals shameful support, absolutely no principles whatsover, I respect them even less.

very true

annis has brought up this topic as a thread

I have told him that his arguement the tories found an even bigger mess was wrong , as the governments own advice group and the institute of fiscal studies have stated this week that the economy was not in as bad a state as the tories were saying

its all on record

Since 1997 is when ImmIgration started to get out of control and then from the year 2000 it has spired out of control, I AM SORRY IF THE TRUTH HURTS, LABOUR SHOULD OF SAID A SIMPLE NO TO IT.

The banks may have caused the current financial crisis but that doesn't get away from the fact that the Labour government of the past 13 years has done absolutely nothing to prevent the banks getting us into this mess, indeed they encouraged it.

Where the Labour government have failed miserably is that they did not put money away during the boom times for that "rainy day". Instaed they chose to spend, spend, spend on out utterly ridiculously bloated public sector.

That together with their "laissez faire" attitude to immigration during their tenure has helped the impact5 of the failure of the banks to cause the near perfect storm and leave us in the shambolic mess we are in now, a mess that will not be sorted out within this generation.

Shame on Blair and Brown and good on Cameron and Clegg for making the difficult and unpopular decisions that are required to save our economy.

The banks may have caused the current financial crisis but that doesn't get away from the fact that the Labour government of the past 13 years has done absolutely nothing to prevent the banks getting us into this mess, indeed they encouraged it.

Where the Labour government have failed miserably is that they did not put money away during the boom times for that "rainy day". Instaed they chose to spend, spend, spend on out utterly ridiculously bloated public sector.

That together with their "laissez faire" attitude to immigration during their tenure has helped the impact5 of the failure of the banks to cause the near perfect storm and leave us in the shambolic mess we are in now, a mess that will not be sorted out within this generation.

Shame on Blair and Brown and good on Cameron and Clegg for making the difficult and unpopular decisions that are required to save our economy.

I CANT AGREE MORE WITH THAT POST, SPOT ON

I AM and always will be a labour man, but we have got it wrong on this one.......its time to look after our own......we need to start looking after our young people who want to work and we need to start channelling the benefits system towards those who need it such as the old age pensioners who have paid in for years,the old and infirm,and the disabled....and by disabled i dont mean the lazy gits who say they have a bad back and dont want work.

There is nothing more frustrating than having a debate/discussion with anybody who will not listen to what you are saying. You can agree to disagree but please have the courtesy to acknowledge previous standpoints. Annis, you keep bringing things around to immigration and you keep saying it is 'Labour debt'. Immigration is a misnomer for reasons already expressed on this thread and seemingly endless threads previously. As for the 'Labour debt', I watched the budget speech and Osborne himself admitted the banks caused the crisis, I'm only surprised more wasn't made of it. The exaggerated perilous state of the finances are being used as a smokescreen for the impending ideological changes that are going to take place. The Tories are dishonourable liars who have a completely seperate agenda to what they talk about. The only surprise was/still is the Liberals shameful support, absolutely no principles whatsover, I respect them even less.

very true

annis has brought up this topic as a thread

I have told him that his arguement the tories found an even bigger mess was wrong , as the governments own advice group and the institute of fiscal studies have stated this week that the economy was not in as bad a state as the tories were saying

its all on record

Since 1997 is when ImmIgration started to get out of control and then from the year 2000 it has spired out of control, I AM SORRY IF THE TRUTH HURTS, LABOUR SHOULD OF SAID A SIMPLE NO TO IT.

it would hurt if that was the truth annis

but it isnt

answer the questions above

you still aint

The banks may have caused the current financial crisis but that doesn't get away from the fact that the Labour government of the past 13 years has done absolutely nothing to prevent the banks getting us into this mess, indeed they encouraged it.

Where the Labour government have failed miserably is that they did not put money away during the boom times for that "rainy day". Instaed they chose to spend, spend, spend on out utterly ridiculously bloated public sector.

That together with their "laissez faire" attitude to immigration during their tenure has helped the impact5 of the failure of the banks to cause the near perfect storm and leave us in the shambolic mess we are in now, a mess that will not be sorted out within this generation.

Shame on Blair and Brown and good on Cameron and Clegg for making the difficult and unpopular decisions that are required to save our economy.

I CANT AGREE MORE WITH THAT POST, SPOT ON

thats no surprise , as like him you are a tory

I couldnt disagree MORE !!

I keep asking annis ..why do you think the economy is in such a state when your governments own advice body and the institure for fiscal studies say it isnt ?

I AM and always will be a labour man, but we have got it wrong on this one.......its time to look after our own......we need to start looking after our young people who want to work and we need to start channelling the benefits system towards those who need it such as the old age pensioners who have paid in for years,the old and infirm,and the disabled....and by disabled i dont mean the lazy gits who say they have a bad back and dont want work.

we do !!

there will always be cheats

Sludge, The Govt could not keep borrowing money, in the end we would off ended up like Greece, so now The New Govt have decided enough is enough and this country and the tax paying people will now have to save our own country. I am fuming deep down as I am fed up of the Taxs, but at least I know its the Tories/Lib Dems fault, they had no other choice.

one thing that has never been answered is why gordon brown sold all our gold reserves for such a ridiculous price
and to the rothchilds to of all people

one thing that has never been answered is why gordon brown sold all our gold reserves for such a ridiculous price
and to the rothchilds to of all people

Well, there was a welfare state to look after and the Government then were running out of money.

They need to get people back to work as some are taking the piss i believe they shoukd work for there dole and as for immigrants they should not be allowed to live here without a job.
I

We are hearing all sorts of rumours of the cuts we are going to get in the military. Some scary stuff. Definitely not getting pay rises for the next 2 years. Labour said that they wouldn't stop Armed Forces getting pay rises. However the way I look at it if nurses and Police are being denied a pay rise I shouldn't expect one.

We are hearing all sorts of rumours of the cuts we are going to get in the military. Some scary stuff. Definitely not getting pay rises for the next 2 years. Labour said that they wouldn't stop Armed Forces getting pay rises. However the way I look at it if nurses and Police are being denied a pay rise I shouldn't expect one.

I thought Cameron said he would look after the Armed Forces the other day and their pay would rise once they were out on the front line.

tut tut. there is too many people on here that is suffering with "chinese whispers" syndrome...

CUTS
If you all think that the torys are lying to you then you are gravely mistaken. they shouted from the roof tops during the election with regards to IMMEDIATE cuts. you all think "frontline cuts" mean people losing jobs, all they have done is frozen public sector workers pay rises for 2 years and with regards to the police and nhs they are gonna save money by abolishing all the crap paperwork that has bogged down both services during labours tenure, so that these frontline services can actually do their job properly. NHS management will be cut as they are top heavy and ridiculously over paid.

VAT
is going up to 20% ...this i prefer rather than the extra labour were going to take directly out of your pay via national insuarance. at least we get a chance when we purchase things to look for good deals rather than it being screwed out of us.

Army
getting extra wages when they are on tour

ALL OF US
getting personal tax allowance increase to £7,500 a year.

MAGIC NUMBER
is £40,000 anyone earning over that will not get any child credit or other related benefits. fair enough IMO

IMMIGRATION
a full AUSTRALIAN STYLE border force and visa system will be introduced within the next 12-24 months (red tape in brussels)
however the ability to speak english will be required for non EU`s shortly (that alone will get the figure down to tens of thousands not hundreds of thousands as it stands)

UNEMPLOYMENT
AMERICAN STYLE system to be introduced within 12 months... if you are on dole for 6 months you will have to work for your giro or get f**k all

BANK LEVY
the banks are gonna get slammed big style Osbourne said so

Cameron and Clegg have had to make imortant decisions here , how anyone would like to think the tories want to f**k us up on purpose is beyond reason.

TO SUM UP
if you earn less than 40K dont worry mun you will benefit

tut tut. there is too many people on here that is suffering with "chinese whispers" syndrome...

CUTS
If you all think that the torys are lying to you then you are gravely mistaken. they shouted from the roof tops during the election with regards to IMMEDIATE cuts. you all think "frontline cuts" mean people losing jobs, all they have done is frozen public sector workers pay rises for 2 years and with regards to the police and nhs they are gonna save money by abolishing all the crap paperwork that has bogged down both services during labours tenure, so that these frontline services can actually do their job properly. NHS management will be cut as they are top heavy and ridiculously over paid.

VAT
is going up to 20% ...this i prefer rather than the extra labour were going to take directly out of your pay via national insuarance. at least we get a chance when we purchase things to look for good deals rather than it being screwed out of us.

Army
getting extra wages when they are on tour

ALL OF US
getting personal tax allowance increase to £7,500 a year.

MAGIC NUMBER
is £40,000 anyone earning over that will not get any child credit or other related benefits. fair enough IMO

IMMIGRATION
a full AUSTRALIAN STYLE border force and visa system will be introduced within the next 12-24 months (red tape in brussels)
however the ability to speak english will be required for non EU`s shortly (that alone will get the figure down to tens of thousands not hundreds of thousands as it stands)

UNEMPLOYMENT
AMERICAN STYLE system to be introduced within 12 months... if you are on dole for 6 months you will have to work for your giro or get f**k all

BANK LEVY
the banks are gonna get slammed big style Osbourne said so

Cameron and Clegg have had to make imortant decisions here , how anyone would like to think the tories want to f**k us up on purpose is beyond reason.

TO SUM UP
if you earn less than 40K dont worry mun you will benefit

WELL SAID, The only lying Govt were Brown and Blair.

tut tut. there is too many people on here that is suffering with "chinese whispers" syndrome...

CUTS
If you all think that the torys are lying to you then you are gravely mistaken. they shouted from the roof tops during the election with regards to IMMEDIATE cuts. you all think "frontline cuts" mean people losing jobs, all they have done is frozen public sector workers pay rises for 2 years and with regards to the police and nhs they are gonna save money by abolishing all the crap paperwork that has bogged down both services during labours tenure, so that these frontline services can actually do their job properly. NHS management will be cut as they are top heavy and ridiculously over paid.

VAT
is going up to 20% ...this i prefer rather than the extra labour were going to take directly out of your pay via national insuarance. at least we get a chance when we purchase things to look for good deals rather than it being screwed out of us.

Army
getting extra wages when they are on tour

ALL OF US
getting personal tax allowance increase to £7,500 a year.

MAGIC NUMBER
is £40,000 anyone earning over that will not get any child credit or other related benefits. fair enough IMO

IMMIGRATION
a full AUSTRALIAN STYLE border force and visa system will be introduced within the next 12-24 months (red tape in brussels)
however the ability to speak english will be required for non EU`s shortly (that alone will get the figure down to tens of thousands not hundreds of thousands as it stands)

UNEMPLOYMENT
AMERICAN STYLE system to be introduced within 12 months... if you are on dole for 6 months you will have to work for your giro or get f**k all

BANK LEVY
the banks are gonna get slammed big style Osbourne said so

Cameron and Clegg have had to make imortant decisions here , how anyone would like to think the tories want to f**k us up on purpose is beyond reason.

TO SUM UP
if you earn less than 40K dont worry mun you will benefit

Great Post. New Labour and their Posse scaremongering as usual.

Nobody is denying the need for cuts but reading these latest posts proves the point. Nobody has even attempted to respond to Sludge's valid analysis, you're being railroaded but you're too indoctrinated to notice! Que sera!

Nobody is denying the need for cuts but reading these latest posts proves the point. Nobody has even attempted to respond to Sludge's valid analysis, you're being railroaded but you're too indoctrinated to notice! Que sera!

What question is it ?

"I have told him that his arguement the tories found an even bigger mess was wrong , as the governments own advice group and the institute of fiscal studies have stated this week that the economy was not in as bad a state as the tories were saying

its all on record"

Not one member of the coalition has acknowledged the above findings. Osborne and co are charging through regardless. The situation in Greece would never happen here, that is widely accepted but the Tories choose to reference it continuously, even now. The choice in its very simple terms is:-

a) Cut in a steady manner thus safeguarding quality of life/living in many organisations/homes.
b) Cut immediately thus safeguarding quality of life/living in many businesses/banks.

The tories want to make the state smaller, they always have. They see a fearful public and know that in this environment it's the perfect opportunity to push ideological changes. They are only gambling with the futures of those that stand to lose the most i.e. you and I.

The next 18 months will be very interesting, I hope we are all able to, and in reference to the latest CCFC mantra, keep calm and carry on.

"I have told him that his arguement the tories found an even bigger mess was wrong , as the governments own advice group and the institute of fiscal studies have stated this week that the economy was not in as bad a state as the tories were saying

its all on record"

Not one member of the coalition has acknowledged the above findings. Osborne and co are charging through regardless. The situation in Greece would never happen here, that is widely accepted but the Tories choose to reference it continuously, even now. The choice in its very simple terms is:-

a) Cut in a steady manner thus safeguarding quality of life/living in many organisations/homes.
b) Cut immediately thus safeguarding quality of life/living in many businesses/banks.

The tories want to make the state smaller, they always have. They see a fearful public and know that in this environment it's the perfect opportunity to push ideological changes. They are only gambling with the futures of those that stand to lose the most i.e. you and I.

The next 18 months will be very interesting, I hope we are all able to, and in reference to the latest CCFC mantra, keep calm and carry on.

If those are facts I cant argue with them, But I will still stand by this, ANYTHING is BETTER THAN Brown or Blair in my Opinion.

tut tut. there is too many people on here that is suffering with "chinese whispers" syndrome...

CUTS
If you all think that the torys are lying to you then you are gravely mistaken. they shouted from the roof tops during the election with regards to IMMEDIATE cuts. you all think "frontline cuts" mean people losing jobs, all they have done is frozen public sector workers pay rises for 2 years and with regards to the police and nhs they are gonna save money by abolishing all the crap paperwork that has bogged down both services during labours tenure, so that these frontline services can actually do their job properly. NHS management will be cut as they are top heavy and ridiculously over paid.


dont know where to start , lots of incorrect stuff here

this is the first budget , I cant believe some of you are daft enough to think there are not going to be cuts to frontline services

the home secretary has already fallen out with the police over her plans for more beauracracy , not less !!!



VAT
is going up to 20% ...this i prefer rather than the extra labour were going to take directly out of your pay via national insuarance. at least we get a chance when we purchase things to look for good deals rather than it being screwed out of us.

VAT will hit the lowest ten percent of the community harder than it will hit the rest of us

those are the facts

Army
getting extra wages when they are on tour

ALL OF US
getting personal tax allowance increase to £7,500 a year.

MAGIC NUMBER
is £40,000 anyone earning over that will not get any child credit or other related benefits. fair enough IMO

IMMIGRATION
a full AUSTRALIAN STYLE border force and visa system will be introduced within the next 12-24 months (red tape in brussels)
however the ability to speak english will be required for non EU`s shortly (that alone will get the figure down to tens of thousands not hundreds of thousands as it stands)



the government is about to annouce a cap on non EU immigration ..which sounds great ..but business leaders in this country are totally against it



UNEMPLOYMENT
AMERICAN STYLE system to be introduced within 12 months... if you are on dole for 6 months you will have to work for your giro or get f**k all

no it isnt

the main plan for welfare is a changes to sickness benefits , which will take 3 years to get started after trials this october

BANK LEVY
the banks are gonna get slammed big style Osbourne said so

and you believe him ?

again , thats wrong ..what actually happened was the liberals were calling for a 5billion bank levy ..whcih even the experts said was low ..we neded up getting a 2.5 billion one ..half of what was considered fair

its that osbourne " hammering " the banks then god help us

Cameron and Clegg have had to make imortant decisions here , how anyone would like to think the tories want to f**k us up on purpose is beyond reason.

I think you have been reading duff info

TO SUM UP
if you earn less than 40K dont worry mun you will benefit

tut tut. there is too many people on here that is suffering with "chinese whispers" syndrome...

CUTS
If you all think that the torys are lying to you then you are gravely mistaken. they shouted from the roof tops during the election with regards to IMMEDIATE cuts. you all think "frontline cuts" mean people losing jobs, all they have done is frozen public sector workers pay rises for 2 years and with regards to the police and nhs they are gonna save money by abolishing all the crap paperwork that has bogged down both services during labours tenure, so that these frontline services can actually do their job properly. NHS management will be cut as they are top heavy and ridiculously over paid.

VAT
is going up to 20% ...this i prefer rather than the extra labour were going to take directly out of your pay via national insuarance. at least we get a chance when we purchase things to look for good deals rather than it being screwed out of us.

Army
getting extra wages when they are on tour

ALL OF US
getting personal tax allowance increase to £7,500 a year.

MAGIC NUMBER
is £40,000 anyone earning over that will not get any child credit or other related benefits. fair enough IMO

IMMIGRATION
a full AUSTRALIAN STYLE border force and visa system will be introduced within the next 12-24 months (red tape in brussels)
however the ability to speak english will be required for non EU`s shortly (that alone will get the figure down to tens of thousands not hundreds of thousands as it stands)

UNEMPLOYMENT
AMERICAN STYLE system to be introduced within 12 months... if you are on dole for 6 months you will have to work for your giro or get f**k all

BANK LEVY
the banks are gonna get slammed big style Osbourne said so

Cameron and Clegg have had to make imortant decisions here , how anyone would like to think the tories want to f**k us up on purpose is beyond reason.

TO SUM UP
if you earn less than 40K dont worry mun you will benefit

WELL SAID, The only lying Govt were Brown and Blair.

I dont agree its well said at all , hes wrong on a number of points I have highlighted

the tories lie as well annis , thay have lied before when in government , and they will do so again


you are as bad as some of my left wing mates who never accept when they are wrong

Sludge, I always admit when I am in the wrong and have done on many occasions .

MPs claimed more than £10 million in expenses in the final six months of 2009, it was revealed today.

David cutbacks Cameron you know him who says we are all in this together – then Opposition leader – claimed £12,978.88 in the last six months of 2009. That included £8,205.53 in costs for running his constituency home in Witney.

His monthly council tax bill was around £208, and his monthly mortgage interest bill went down from £1,081 to £822.

Mr Cameron’s home insurance cost the taxpayer some £71 a month.

Cheeky or what?

how about using the money wasted in the middle east to spend on the nhs.

would say We all have to make cut backs in our National Health, in our Military,in our Schools, in our local services etc etc etc

ARE THEY MAKING CUT BACKS ON THE AMOUNT WE SPEND ON IMMIGRATION ?

Sludge will prob answer this.

But in MY OPINION THAT IS WHERE THE FIRST CUT BACKS SHOULD BE.

Annis,

I find it odd, given your background, that you are so anti-immigration.

Migrants more than pay their way in our society. Indeed, foreign-born people are a significant economic asset. Without their contribution, the average UK taxpayer would pay an extra penny in every pound in income tax.

A Home Office report estimated that foreign-born people – including refugees and asylum seekers - contribute around 10% more to Government revenues than they receive in Government spending, equivalent to £2.5bn a year – or 1p on the basic rate of income tax .

I do not understand what it is about immigration that you want to cut back, we make money from it!

I think people see the word immigration and just dont really have the facts to hand

there are bad things about immigration , of course ..but many good things too

stop reading the daily mail and the sun , they are full of lies