" CALM DOWN EVERYBODY "

i do find it strange, that a person, or persons, would invest into cardiff city, to steady the ship? why, whats in it for them,,,,,, ? how are they going to make money out of cardiff city?? the only way i can see them making money is to invest,, with a squad that can finish in the top 2 , is it still not the case, the more you put in , the more you get out of it? i just dont think that the malaysians are here to help us,?

I agree in a way, the Malaysians have gained a lot of respect for saving us from going bust, but i do feel in a way they did take a gamble and hoped for promotion and then possibly wanted out, at the end of the day they are BUSINESS men and not football men. I may be totally wrong but thats my opinion, also at present we have not seen ANY signings where money has been spent but lets be patient and wait and see what happens over the coming weeks.

To repeat what has been said the Malaysians HAVE steadied the ship and are getting the finances back on track, but they also stated that they wanted a top 2 finish so the next few weeks will be interesting.

To be fair, I think some fans have only got carried away because:
1. TG making the "top 2 " comment.
2. Info that the club have been trying to bring in one of the top players on the Premier League.
3. Reported supposed quote from SB that we are aiming for better than Howard.
I certainly have allowed myself to dream as a result, in contrast to that awful play off final day when all I wanted was confirmation that the Malaysians were still interested.
Bosco

Had no idea Ray was involved interesting really.
Is that the "surprise" debt the echo said?

Have to say great post by carlccfc I'm new to posting on here have been keeping an eye on the threads, ya totally agree think people need to take a step back and realise that we were close to being nonexistant. Great site Annis and all the lads for the info keeps me aware of whats going on well im living away

Surely what we all want is a club that is sustainable in the long run? Ridsdale took us to the very brink of extinction by gambling everything on promotion and his legacy is piles of debt and few income streams that haven't already been spent or sold off. The phrase "shit or bust" might have been made for him. I'm all for the Malaysians being prudent and if we have to recover slowly but steadily, that's fine by me.

I was never happy with the idea of bringing in Bellamy because paying one player so much when he wouldn't even be our player seemed another gamble a la Ridsdale. Similarly, much as I love Joe, I think we're now offering him more than he's worth to us in wages. I'd be glad to see Joe go and Bellamy not come if it means we can build a stronger overall squad.

We have to trust our new investors to manage the club properly and if that means bringing in 'frees' or loans for the moment while they help the club recover from the disastrous reign of Ridsdale, I'll accept that. If we can keep the current squad minus Joe and DJ can find some cheap gems, we might still make it this season but if not, it won't be the fault of our Malaysian friends but the years of irresponsible managment which preceded them.

Surely they could have pulled out if we didnt get promotion?
If they couldn't and only interested in promotion they didnt need to do any deal until after the play/offs??

It annoys me people trying to turn on the new guys because they aint signing players. The bellamy situation has got peoples hopes up. IMO we should sell sell sell, balance the books as close as possible and then let DJ rebuild which we know he is very very capable at with a minimal budget.

Surely they could have pulled out if we didnt get promotion?
If they couldn't and only interested in promotion they didnt need to do any deal until after the play/offs??

They couldn't have pulled out if promotion wasn't achieved as they were tied in and they couldn't wait until after the play offs as the final HMRC court winding up order date was before then.

The final date winding up order wasnt until after the final.

The previous winding up order was adjourned because of the agreement but im sure they had ways around that

We owe money to ray ranson? The Coventry guy?
Anymore news on this Carl ?

Ray Ranson's company is the firm that loaned the club £4.8million under Ridsdale against the players value.

Ranso was heavily involved with loaning money to Leeds Utd when PR was there and is also the owner of PROZONE which porvides clubs with all the stats on players performances etc City use prozone too.

Thanks again Carl, another great insight on our club, as for Ray Ranson [scheme], i mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, regarding the Cayman Island debt. Its is also refered to in PR's book, United we fall, did PR learn anything from his problems at LUFC???

Have to say great post by carlccfc I'm new to posting on here have been keeping an eye on the threads, ya totally agree think people need to take a step back and realise that we were close to being nonexistant. Great site Annis and all the lads for the info keeps me aware of whats going on well im living away

How you doing my old friend, Hope all is well

Have to say great post by carlccfc I'm new to posting on here have been keeping an eye on the threads, ya totally agree think people need to take a step back and realise that we were close to being nonexistant. Great site Annis and all the lads for the info keeps me aware of whats going on well im living away

How you doing my old friend, Hope all is well

Good annis thanks, fair play great site. Hope your well and good too some great topics and some great info out of this forum keeps me going anyhow!

Have to say great post by carlccfc I'm new to posting on here have been keeping an eye on the threads, ya totally agree think people need to take a step back and realise that we were close to being nonexistant. Great site Annis and all the lads for the info keeps me aware of whats going on well im living away

How you doing my old friend, Hope all is well

Good annis thanks, fair play great site. Hope your well and good too some great topics and some great info out of this forum keeps me going anyhow!

Dont forget to let me know when your over this season ?
Cheers about the Site, I am very lucky I have good members and Superb posters

Yet another good post from yourself,Cheers carl

Great post Carl. Totally agree we need to keep everything in perspective. We have gone from talking about going out of business to bellamy signing. Crazy

annis, carl, just how much debt has the riddler left behind ?

annis, carl, just how much debt has the riddler left behind ?

Approx anything up to £42 Million, £6 million has been paid off already by the Malaysians, another £3 million is due about now, a lot of creditors have backed off and withdrawn their court orders thanks to TG having a meeting with them a couple of months ago, but they still want paying.
The Riddler was a mad man with the way he spent money and it does annoy me that the other Directors let him just get on with it.
Before anyone says about Sam, Sam is owed £10 million of that and has NOT demanded his money once.

annis, carl, just how much debt has the riddler left behind ?

Approx anything up to £42 Million, £6 million has been paid off already by the Malaysians, another £3 million is due about now, a lot of creditors have backed off and withdrawn their court orders thanks to TG having a meeting with them a couple of months ago, but they still want paying.
The Riddler was a mad man with the way he spent money and it does annoy me that the other Directors let him just get on with it.
Before anyone says about Sam, Sam is owed £10 million of that and has NOT demanded his money once.

Annis where you say Sam is owed £10million that is only the case if it is paid before the end of this year. Otherwise it reverts back to the £24million, so therefore Ridsdale really screwed up, he sold £33million of talent and has not paid a penny off debts.

annis, carl, just how much debt has the riddler left behind ?

Approx anything up to £42 Million, £6 million has been paid off already by the Malaysians, another £3 million is due about now, a lot of creditors have backed off and withdrawn their court orders thanks to TG having a meeting with them a couple of months ago, but they still want paying.
The Riddler was a mad man with the way he spent money and it does annoy me that the other Directors let him just get on with it.
Before anyone says about Sam, Sam is owed £10 million of that and has NOT demanded his money once.

Annis where you say Sam is owed £10million that is only the case if it is paid before the end of this year. Otherwise it reverts back to the £24million, so therefore Ridsdale really screwed up, he sold £33million of talent and has not paid a penny off debts.

Correct Carl, I didnt want to look like I was sticking up for Sam again.

All very calm in the Saddles household!!

All very calm in the Saddles household!!

I like it Saddles

epic speach my sentinents in dead .well said ..

Great post Carl....Keep em coming as you're a great source of info for us. We as fans will always get impatient but sometimes need reminding of the fact that we were a club in turmoil and very near to "A club no more".
Nice 1
Jes

Didn't realise the deadline to pay off Sam's £10M was so close in reality. For any sound businessman it must be a number 1 priority to ensure that gets paid off or the balance sheet becomes £14M worse off. I would expect that Sam is taking some comfort from VT's wealth in this being sorted out as the club has no other hope of raising this sort of sum. How exactly does the stadium naming rights fit into this deal again?

When we as fans were all hoping to obtain numerous players, it just goes to show how difficult things are right now. Pressing creditors inc Ray Ranson to be paid off in the short term and no income stream for wages once the £6M runs out. No wonder TG and VT are actively looking at raising funds overseas to compensate for the loss of the premiership riches.

Didn't realise the deadline to pay off Sam's £10M was so close in reality. For any sound businessman it must be a number 1 priority to ensure that gets paid off or the balance sheet becomes £14M worse off. I would expect that Sam is taking some comfort from VT's wealth in this being sorted out as the club has no other hope of raising this sort of sum. How exactly does the stadium naming rights fit into this deal again?

When we as fans were all hoping to obtain numerous players, it just goes to show how difficult things are right now. Pressing creditors inc Ray Ranson to be paid off in the short term and no income stream for wages once the £6M runs out. No wonder TG and VT are actively looking at raising funds overseas to compensate for the loss of the premiership riches.

The agreement with Sam was..

Pay off 10m this year (by 31/12/10) and the debt is gone.

Otherwise pay £1m per year or the next few years and then a lump sum at the end (total around £15m)

Extract from december's Muni meeting below

''The details of the revised loan notes agreement are interesting, to say the very least. Provided the relevant paperwork gets signed, monthly repayments to Langston will commence in January 2010 and I'm reliably informed they will be set at around the £83,000 mark, meaning approximately £1 million will be paid off the debt each year between now and 2016, when an additonal balance of £9 million will be due. However, there are significant incentives for early repayment of the entire liability. For instance, if it is settled by the end of 2010, then the total payable by the club will be just £10 million. If it is paid off by the end of 2011, the total will be £11 million, and so on.

As was the case with the 2007 revision of the original 2004 agreement, all historic interest has been written off, and this time around all future interest has also been written off, which is a massive financial boost for the club. In a further amendment, Langston will receive a sum of £5 million if the stadium naming rights are sold or if the club reaches the Premiership - whichever happens first.

The loan notes debt initially stood at £24 million plus interest. We are now in a position whereby it could be reduced to as little as a flat £10 million. Of course, Langston's hands have been tied to a large degree by the financial situation at the club, but nevertheless the debt has been the subject of some remarkable reductions in recent years, and credit for that should go to those who have been involved in the negotiating process. A £24 million plus interest debt was simply unmanageable for a club of Cardiff City's size, but a debt of £10 million makes the Bluebirds a far more viable proposition for any prospective investors, especially now the new stadium is up and running.''

Reading the article its frightening to see how he spinned the lies out that night. I'm glad i didnt go, I'd already given up on getting an truth out of him.

If nothing is paid the agreement is null and void and the 'old' agreements become valid , there is a dispute then over how much that is. It CAN'T be allowed to happen.

Its interesting that the Malaysians are apparently looking to see what other parties will invest, and i wonder if they are still leaving the door ajar for Sam to convert some of this debt for equity (shares). It would have been interesting to see how this would have panned out if we'd gone up.


As for Ransom, he now has security over some of the clubs assets in return for a reduction in the amount owed, which has been agreed to be paid back over a period of time. This is like other creditors, my worry is we have to pay all these people off, but don't have any EXTRA income coming in to do so. Thats why sponsorship deals from the Far East are going to be important, or we'll fall behind other clubs in this division who don't have to deal with historic debts like us.

Thats my worry aswell.

Thats my worry aswell.

And then we come on to, where else is the club mgoing to rasie money from ?

Not much support locally from businesses, many of whom are egg-chasers or struggling to keep their heads above water.
Other shareholders showed their reluctance to invest when there was a less than 10% take up on the recent share offer. many of the major shareholders aren't really interested as there is no more money to be made form building projects, and don't forget many were given shares in exchange for work/services, and didnt buy them for the love of the club.

So, the only other additional source of income is the Malaysians.

IMHO it can only lead to one thing - a full takeover.

Carl, imo they will wait until january, then make funds for quaility players then. Whether this be outright sales or loan players. We would have gone up automatically if dj could have brought in players last january, as we were all promised by the riddler! That's what i would do in tg & co shoes.

Annis where you say Sam is owed £10million that is only the case if it is paid before the end of this year. Otherwise it reverts back to the £24million.

That's incorrect, Carl.

The latest agreement saw the loan notes debt written down to £15 million, with significant incentives for early repayment.

If it is settled in full by the end of December 2010, the figure will be £10 million.

If it is settled in full by the end of December 2011, the figure will be £11 million.

If it is settled in full by the end of December 2012, the figure will be £12 million.

And so on until the end of December 2016, when the remaining balance of the £15 million will be due, which works out at another £8 million provided the monthly repayments have been honoured.

so what your saying TLG is if the £10 mill is not payed by the end of december it will go up each year in increments of £1mill

so what your saying TLG is if the £10 mill is not payed by the end of december it will go up each year in increments of £1mill

That's exactly the way it works up until the end of December 2016, when an additional £8 million will be due.

The £24 million loan notes debt was originally written down to £15 million in late-2006. Further amendments to the deal were agreed in December 2009. Both agreements included clauses relating to interest, payments for stadium naming rights and payments upon promotion to the Premiership.

The monthly repayments to Langston are £83,333.33 (ie: £1 million a year), but the club has an option to repay the entire debt at any time before the end of December 2016, when whatever remains of the £15 million debt will be duee.