YESTERDAY, TODAY AND TOMORROW

Often saying that my posts are inaccurate but now you are asking me questions.

Come on Carl, your posts often are inaccurate, and you know that as well as I do. You've changed your stance on the club's position so dramatically within the last ten days or so it's untrue! We can't possibly be a club on the up and be a club in crisis, can we?

I am simply asking you what you believe is the situation with Langston. If you believe the November 2006 agreement is valid, then no payments of any sort are due to Langston (either principal sum or interest) until 31 December 2016, as those were the terms of that agreement. But you are saying the club will owe £24 million at the end of this year. I don't see how that can be so.

No come on Dave, my posts often are accurate and the up and down of nature of them highlights our club today and the past few weeks. I dont change stance I post what I hear and that is true. A club on the up is a club with backers to the tune of $800 million and the crisis is a management one on the day to day running.

I have not said the 2006 agreement is valid and binding because I believe it is not. As regards to the 2009 agreement then you will have to wait and see and hopefully learn. By the way grab an echo on your break tomorrow.

I have not said the 2006 agreement is valid and binding because I believe it is not.

You must know something Mr Justice Briggs doesn't, because he effectively laughed Langston's summary judgement claim out of court!

Often saying that my posts are inaccurate but now you are asking me questions.

Come on Carl, your posts often are inaccurate, and you know that as well as I do. You've changed your stance on the club's position so dramatically within the last ten days or so it's untrue! .

TLG, I don't think Carl has had any stance. He's simply reported back the news has it happens good or bad. It's quite easy to report on inaccuracies after the fact some time later, but as it happens news is always going to have some errors, that's the nature of it. At least Carl has the guts to report it as it happens without fear of the odd error here and there.

It's quite clear though that if Carl were to post that trees are green then you'd come back with "evidence" that they are sometimes red or even brown on occasion. You'd dig out old statements showing these colour changes backed up by Echo clippings when it suits your "argument" most.

I don't know what your problem is with Carl but it's coming across as very juvenile and very petty.

Yesterday I created a thread about the club being in crisis, it is in crisis a management crisis, nobody has control down there.

Yesterday in the very thread I told how Langston must be paid £10 million by the end of the year or it reverts back to £24 million I will explain how and why.

1. There has been 3 agreements with Langston, the first of which was an unsecured loan of £24 million taken out by Sam but not against the club, when the council were in talks with the club over the land for the new stadium they told the club that it could afford a debt of £24 million an dto work it on it.

2. That is why the 2nd agreement came into place, it was £15 million and then £9 million for stadium naming rights, this was done to satisfy the council but the amount remained at £24 million for Langston, whether the 2nd agreement is legally binding is a matter for the courts because of certain actions.

3. The 3rd agreement is the latest one that we all know has been written down to £10 million but due to the incompetence of our previous chairman this agreement has never been signed off, it was agreed but never signed, so that leaves Langston in the driving seat, they could have at any time called in the £24 million but they have remained patient for the good of the club. So it will be £24 million at the end of the year and not increasing to £11 million, then £12 million and so on, this will become public knowledge.

Yesterday I told how we must pay Sunderland £1.5 million for the remainder of the deal, it was reported differently by our then Chairman Peter Ridsdale but today the press backed up my claims exactly.

Today I received a message from TG after he read my Club in Crisis post and I am pleased at his response, here is Tg's message :

"We came through when the club needed the support most. And now you can imagine that we are wading thru 5years of a previous regime.
It is not an easy task. We are 36per cent and have put in 6m pounds as promised.
All I ask at this stage is rally round to support this club and help us undo 5years of the previous setting. We have to do this together whether as a fan, shareholder, employee and so on.
We have the resolve and I want the fans to have the resolve to. We need all the support we can get."
Best regards,
Tg

So I have asked many times for everyone to be patient and there TG is asking to for the fans support and resolve, these malaysians are in it for the long haul let's support them.

Tomorrow, the solution will become more apparent, in tomorrow's Echo there will be big headlines on Sam Hammam and the possibility of his return to Cardiff City, I would welcome Sam's return because Sam cares for our club, Sam knows football and how to succeed in it.

Carl, just got in and read this, this doesn't add up.

Once again a legal document which would have been seen not only by Ridsdale, but Guy, TG, Tan's accountants, Borley and Whitley - all sharp cookies and businessmen in their own right hasn't been signed.

Again, I'm not having a go, but I really find this hard to believe. Besides the fact that in an EGM there for all to see it was proclaimed to all the shareholders that this was a done deal.

I've no doubt there are skeletons coming out of cupboards, but this one just doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe there will be more details tomorrow. Hopefully not in the Echo as Terry Phillips seems to just repeat what he reads here

I'm also getting worried about the clamour for a Sam return. If we are in the financial crap how is HE going to sort it out ?

My question is how much have Annis and Carl taken as a backhander from the Echo to not print the story on here first?

My question is how much have Annis and Carl taken as a backhander from the Echo to not print the story on here first?

2 bob and a bag of sherbert lemons

Cant you ever admit when your wrong ?

Not fair,Annis - he did apologise for his comments with regards to the march,a tacit admission he was wrong. Might have been a grudging apology, but give him some credit...

I was wondering how much % Annis and Carl are getting from tomorows echo sales. Every post says READ THE ECHO TOMOROW ! When normally they say dont listen to a word of it

TLG, I don't think Carl has had any stance. He's simply reported back the news has it happens good or bad. It's quite easy to report on inaccuracies after the fact some time later, but as it happens news is always going to have some errors, that's the nature of it. At least Carl has the guts to report it as it happens without fear of the odd error here and there.

News? Or rumours?

TLG, I don't think Carl has had any stance. He's simply reported back the news has it happens good or bad. It's quite easy to report on inaccuracies after the fact some time later, but as it happens news is always going to have some errors, that's the nature of it. At least Carl has the guts to report it as it happens without fear of the odd error here and there.

News? Or rumours?

Whats the difference in this day and age?

Yesterday I created a thread about the club being in crisis, it is in crisis a management crisis, nobody has control down there.

Yesterday in the very thread I told how Langston must be paid £10 million by the end of the year or it reverts back to £24 million I will explain how and why.

1. There has been 3 agreements with Langston, the first of which was an unsecured loan of £24 million taken out by Sam but not against the club, when the council were in talks with the club over the land for the new stadium they told the club that it could afford a debt of £24 million an dto work it on it.

2. That is why the 2nd agreement came into place, it was £15 million and then £9 million for stadium naming rights, this was done to satisfy the council but the amount remained at £24 million for Langston, whether the 2nd agreement is legally binding is a matter for the courts because of certain actions.

3. The 3rd agreement is the latest one that we all know has been written down to £10 million but due to the incompetence of our previous chairman this agreement has never been signed off, it was agreed but never signed, so that leaves Langston in the driving seat, they could have at any time called in the £24 million but they have remained patient for the good of the club. So it will be £24 million at the end of the year and not increasing to £11 million, then £12 million and so on, this will become public knowledge.

Yesterday I told how we must pay Sunderland £1.5 million for the remainder of the deal, it was reported differently by our then Chairman Peter Ridsdale but today the press backed up my claims exactly.

Today I received a message from TG after he read my Club in Crisis post and I am pleased at his response, here is Tg's message :

"We came through when the club needed the support most. And now you can imagine that we are wading thru 5years of a previous regime.
It is not an easy task. We are 36per cent and have put in 6m pounds as promised.
All I ask at this stage is rally round to support this club and help us undo 5years of the previous setting. We have to do this together whether as a fan, shareholder, employee and so on.
We have the resolve and I want the fans to have the resolve to. We need all the support we can get."
Best regards,
Tg

So I have asked many times for everyone to be patient and there TG is asking to for the fans support and resolve, these malaysians are in it for the long haul let's support them.

Tomorrow, the solution will become more apparent, in tomorrow's Echo there will be big headlines on Sam Hammam and the possibility of his return to Cardiff City, I would welcome Sam's return because Sam cares for our club, Sam knows football and how to succeed in it.

Carl, just got in and read this, this doesn't add up.

Once again a legal document which would have been seen not only by Ridsdale, but Guy, TG, Tan's accountants, Borley and Whitley - all sharp cookies and businessmen in their own right hasn't been signed.

Again, I'm not having a go, but I really find this hard to believe. Besides the fact that in an EGM there for all to see it was proclaimed to all the shareholders that this was a done deal.

I've no doubt there are skeletons coming out of cupboards, but this one just doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe there will be more details tomorrow. Hopefully not in the Echo as Terry Phillips seems to just repeat what he reads here

I'm also getting worried about the clamour for a Sam return. If we are in the financial crap how is HE going to sort it out ?

Tim it will come out what more can I say.

TLG, I don't think Carl has had any stance. He's simply reported back the news has it happens good or bad. It's quite easy to report on inaccuracies after the fact some time later, but as it happens news is always going to have some errors, that's the nature of it. At least Carl has the guts to report it as it happens without fear of the odd error here and there.

News? Or rumours?

Oh my god.

Dave do yourself a favour. Just take a step back and pretend for a moment that your posts regarding Carl etc were posted by someone esle and not you. Read back through them, that's all I'm saying.

cant see mike hall or paul guy working with sam, what more could we want.
think rodney b will have a hissi fit as well!
what time is the echo out?

roll on tomorrow is all I say .............. Im sute TG has been talking with Sam for a long time because a few months back when TG did a walk about under under the Ninian Stand when asked what was going on he said to " keep the faith and believe in us " ! He sounded just like Sam

Im confused tho about the crisis and the real reason behind the tour being changed , the crisis is managerial BUT the tour is financial . is that correct ?

roll on tomorrow is all I say .............. Im sute TG has been talking with Sam for a long time because a few months back when TG did a walk about under under the Ninian Stand when asked what was going on he said to " keep the faith and believe in us " ! He sounded just like Sam

Im confused tho about the crisis and the real reason behind the tour being changed , the crisis is managerial BUT the tour is financial . is that correct ?

correct Martyn

Yesterday I created a thread about the club being in crisis, it is in crisis a management crisis, nobody has control down there.

Yesterday in the very thread I told how Langston must be paid £10 million by the end of the year or it reverts back to £24 million I will explain how and why.

1. There has been 3 agreements with Langston, the first of which was an unsecured loan of £24 million taken out by Sam but not against the club, when the council were in talks with the club over the land for the new stadium they told the club that it could afford a debt of £24 million an dto work it on it.

2. That is why the 2nd agreement came into place, it was £15 million and then £9 million for stadium naming rights, this was done to satisfy the council but the amount remained at £24 million for Langston, whether the 2nd agreement is legally binding is a matter for the courts because of certain actions.

3. The 3rd agreement is the latest one that we all know has been written down to £10 million but due to the incompetence of our previous chairman this agreement has never been signed off, it was agreed but never signed, so that leaves Langston in the driving seat, they could have at any time called in the £24 million but they have remained patient for the good of the club. So it will be £24 million at the end of the year and not increasing to £11 million, then £12 million and so on, this will become public knowledge.

Yesterday I told how we must pay Sunderland £1.5 million for the remainder of the deal, it was reported differently by our then Chairman Peter Ridsdale but today the press backed up my claims exactly.

Today I received a message from TG after he read my Club in Crisis post and I am pleased at his response, here is Tg's message :

"We came through when the club needed the support most. And now you can imagine that we are wading thru 5years of a previous regime.
It is not an easy task. We are 36per cent and have put in 6m pounds as promised.
All I ask at this stage is rally round to support this club and help us undo 5years of the previous setting. We have to do this together whether as a fan, shareholder, employee and so on.
We have the resolve and I want the fans to have the resolve to. We need all the support we can get."
Best regards,
Tg

So I have asked many times for everyone to be patient and there TG is asking to for the fans support and resolve, these malaysians are in it for the long haul let's support them.

Tomorrow, the solution will become more apparent, in tomorrow's Echo there will be big headlines on Sam Hammam and the possibility of his return to Cardiff City, I would welcome Sam's return because Sam cares for our club, Sam knows football and how to succeed in it.

carl

have you contacted tg with reference to your third point and asked him his opinion.
it seems pretty strange to me that a professional organisation that the malaysians run would not have checked to make sure that the deal was signed off by sam prior to making that commitment to the club.
they were amazingly thorough in their finding out the players real contracts considering they had been fed false ones by our chairman of the time.
i am aware of where this info came from so do you not think the document was in fact a draft copy of what was suppossed to be signed and not the original which could have well been signed.
If you are right then it smacks of rank amateurism on the malaysians part which is somewhat different to how they have come across.
do we really believe they would have trusted ridsdale to oversee such an important piece of documentation bearing in mind his previous record with things like jimmy floyd and his antics with the due diligence.
has everybody forgotten that tg came over one weekend in may and sorted out deals with all major creditors including paul guy.
Can we really believe that he did this without making sure personally that the sam deal was tied up.
To me now the bring back sam campaign is in full flow and clear thoughts are not the order of the day.
As i have said before and to annis in private there was always a reason why the club were able to get sam through the door so easily.
carl please dont take this as criticism of your post but i am trying to give an honest view and look at alternative angles

Oh my god.

Dave do yourself a favour. Just take a step back and pretend for a moment that your posts regarding Carl etc were posted by someone esle and not you. Read back through them, that's all I'm saying.

Oh my god.

Why?

Oh my god.

Dave do yourself a favour. Just take a step back and pretend for a moment that your posts regarding Carl etc were posted by someone esle and not you. Read back through them, that's all I'm saying.

Oh my god.

Why?

Now now Dave, please start writing some good topics for us

Yesterday I created a thread about the club being in crisis, it is in crisis a management crisis, nobody has control down there.

Yesterday in the very thread I told how Langston must be paid £10 million by the end of the year or it reverts back to £24 million I will explain how and why.

1. There has been 3 agreements with Langston, the first of which was an unsecured loan of £24 million taken out by Sam but not against the club, when the council were in talks with the club over the land for the new stadium they told the club that it could afford a debt of £24 million an dto work it on it.

2. That is why the 2nd agreement came into place, it was £15 million and then £9 million for stadium naming rights, this was done to satisfy the council but the amount remained at £24 million for Langston, whether the 2nd agreement is legally binding is a matter for the courts because of certain actions.

3. The 3rd agreement is the latest one that we all know has been written down to £10 million but due to the incompetence of our previous chairman this agreement has never been signed off, it was agreed but never signed, so that leaves Langston in the driving seat, they could have at any time called in the £24 million but they have remained patient for the good of the club. So it will be £24 million at the end of the year and not increasing to £11 million, then £12 million and so on, this will become public knowledge.

Yesterday I told how we must pay Sunderland £1.5 million for the remainder of the deal, it was reported differently by our then Chairman Peter Ridsdale but today the press backed up my claims exactly.

Today I received a message from TG after he read my Club in Crisis post and I am pleased at his response, here is Tg's message :

"We came through when the club needed the support most. And now you can imagine that we are wading thru 5years of a previous regime.
It is not an easy task. We are 36per cent and have put in 6m pounds as promised.
All I ask at this stage is rally round to support this club and help us undo 5years of the previous setting. We have to do this together whether as a fan, shareholder, employee and so on.
We have the resolve and I want the fans to have the resolve to. We need all the support we can get."
Best regards,
Tg

So I have asked many times for everyone to be patient and there TG is asking to for the fans support and resolve, these malaysians are in it for the long haul let's support them.

Tomorrow, the solution will become more apparent, in tomorrow's Echo there will be big headlines on Sam Hammam and the possibility of his return to Cardiff City, I would welcome Sam's return because Sam cares for our club, Sam knows football and how to succeed in it.

carl

have you contacted tg with reference to your third point and asked him his opinion.
it seems pretty strange to me that a professional organisation that the malaysians run would not have checked to make sure that the deal was signed off by sam prior to making that commitment to the club.
they were amazingly thorough in their finding out the players real contracts considering they had been fed false ones by our chairman of the time.
i am aware of where this info came from so do you not think the document was in fact a draft copy of what was suppossed to be signed and not the original which could have well been signed.
If you are right then it smacks of rank amateurism on the malaysians part which is somewhat different to how they have come across.
do we really believe they would have trusted ridsdale to oversee such an important piece of documentation bearing in mind his previous record with things like jimmy floyd and his antics with the due diligence.
has everybody forgotten that tg came over one weekend in may and sorted out deals with all major creditors including paul guy.
Can we really believe that he did this without making sure personally that the sam deal was tied up.
To me now the bring back sam campaign is in full flow and clear thoughts are not the order of the day.
As i have said before and to annis in private there was always a reason why the club were able to get sam through the door so easily.
carl please dont take this as criticism of your post but i am trying to give an honest view and look at alternative angles

Steve I do not take it as a criticism and I did not learn it only from where you believe. It has been confirmed from both sides.

If you are right then it smacks of rank amateurism on the malaysians part which is somewhat different to how they have come across.

Precisely, Steve.

We have been told in the past by Carl and others that the Malaysians were incredibly thorough during the due diligence process and uncovered problems the directors didn't even know about.

Now we are being told by the same people that the amendments to the Langston deal (only worth £20 million or so!) were never signed off and the Malaysians didn't notice! To me, it just doesn't add up. Literally.

Now now Dave, please start writing some good topics for us

Wait until I start prattling on about the grief the Trust and I were given over the PMG press statement!

Oh my god.

Dave do yourself a favour. Just take a step back and pretend for a moment that your posts regarding Carl etc were posted by someone esle and not you. Read back through them, that's all I'm saying.

Oh my god.

Why?

Because Dave it's quite apparent to everyone else that you've got some sort of obsession with Carl's posts or Carl himself. You nit pick for the sake of nit picking. You look to argue just for the sake of arguing with him. Everyone can see it and lots of people have told you about it. You know what they say about being the last to know don't you!

And Steve, who made the mistake on the Haslebank contract ?

Because Dave it's quite apparent to everyone else that you've got some sort of obsession with Carl's posts or Carl himself.

I've only met Carl once. He seemed like a really nice bloke.

Carl's posts drive me crackers though.

"Great news! VT is backing DJ all the way! Bellamy is signing! We don't need to sell players! We're on the up!"

A week later.....

"Bad news. The club's in crisis. We're skint."

Now now Dave, please start writing some good topics for us

Wait until I start prattling on about the grief the Trust and I were given over the PMG press statement!

guilty as charged

Because Dave it's quite apparent to everyone else that you've got some sort of obsession with Carl's posts or Carl himself.

I've only met Carl once. He seemed like a really nice bloke.

Carl's posts drive me crackers though.

"Great news! VT is backing DJ all the way! Bellamy is signing! We don't need to sell players! We're on the up!"

A week later.....

"Bad news. The club's in crisis. We're skint."

Get over it Dave this is our club, it's never been any different.

Here's a scenario.

Malaysians know they are businessmen, not football people.
Malaysians know Hammam is a football person, just shit with the money.
Malaysians know PMG isn't going to invest as wants out.
Malaysians know they've not yet got the leverage to install Hammam.
Malaysians, being thorough, spot a Ridsdale fuckup that could give a reason for Hammam to return.

And Steve, who made the mistake on the Haslebank contract ?

exactly my point annis
after that do you think the malaysians would let him deal with the most important piece of documentation in the clubs history without checking the incompetant halfwit had done it

I have reached the clear conclusion that this is not a case for summary judgment,
because on the assumed facts the Club has a real prospect of a successful defence,
MR JUSTICE BRIGGS
Approved Judgment
Langston v. Cardiff City FC
treating its alternative claim for rectification as part of that defence. It follows that it
is unnecessary for me to address issues (if there any) as to quantum, and that I should
express my reasons for my conclusion in a form which does not pre-judge the
outcome of the relevant issues, once the facts have been fully deployed and tested at a
trial.
not my words the judges.
http://clients.squareeye.com/uploads/oec/CCFCjmnt.pdf

So if Risdale didn't sign the deal off no money due until 2016
so TG and Sam look to be reaching some kind of an argeement.
sleepwalker

Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:30 pm
Private messageE-mail sleepwalker

Exactly, and what the judge was saying is that the club should be allowed to put up a defence and they had a case for a defence.
However it wasn't about Sam asking for immediate payment, i don't know where people get that idea from. The whole case was brought about because the agreement the club had with Langstones was that no other creditors could be brought in and given prefferentail status, which is exactly what it did for PMG. This meant that if the club went into admin, the secured prefferential loan that was set up breaking the agreement meant that PMg would get first dibs and Langstones get nowt.

Now I'd be pissed if I was lanstones or Sam, and i'd want it dealt with legally, Sam was hoping that the case would be won with a summary judgement meaning the club had no defence, the Judge stated that they had a defence and should be given the chance to try it in a court. That don't mean they won the case, it don't mean they were innocent, it meant they were given a chance to defend their actions.

It would have taken yeras to get a full trial and cost eaach party hundreds of thousands to take it on,no one would have gained and part of the agreement the club made after with Sam was they would honour the loan notes etc which they re negotiated if he would hold off with the full trial action.

guilty as charged

You're not the only one, Steve. I'm expecting Annis to send round a crate of lager by way of an apology.