Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:01 am
YDdraigGwyn wrote:oohahhPaulMillar wrote:
Yes he was and no he wasn’t..get your facts right
I missed your first part that stated ''yes he was''.
Well, No he wasn't. I will explain.
Nantes gave a mandate to Mercato, to acquire a Premier League club to buy Sala. In return they would get 10% of the transfer fee. Willie McKay was not an employee of Mercato.
On the 19th, the deal between the two clubs was agreed and Nantes and Sala terminated their employment contract. From that moment Mercato and Nantes had completed their arrangement.
Sala who had returned home to say goodbye to family and friends after signing with Cardiff was stuck for a convenient option to travel. He spoke with Willie McKay who said there was an option to book a chartered flight (the same one used for Warnock at Cardiff), Sala agreed and told the Player Liaison Officer at Cardiff who responded with ''Ok that works''.
McKay was not representing anyone other than Sala when the flight was booked. He had no employment with Mercato or Nantes at the time. That is documented fact.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:56 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
So if Sala had refused to sign the amended contract then your implying he would have been a free agent as he had terminated his contract with Nantes FC? This would mean Nantes FC would have released the player and he could have signed for us (or anyone) for nothing.
It is more probable that the termination of his playing contract with Nantes FC was subject to him signing an acceptable contract with CCFC. Until that was done he was both a Nantes FC player and Mercato were still involved in his transfer as it hadn't been completed.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:59 am
jimmy_rat wrote:Listening to the podcast with Dalman he spoke a lot of sense and was very honest.
None of the agents involved in the deal have spoken about not taking their fees (in the instance of a transfer fee being paid). This in my opinion is bad taste.
He suggested to all parties a deal that to me, probably through blue tinted specs, seemed extremely fair way of ending the whole saga...
Agents take nothing.
Clubs take a hit of half the fee each.
Out of this they each pay 2m to Sala's family.
Left about 4.5m euros per club to pay.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:45 am
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:47 am
YDdraigGwyn wrote:jimmy_rat wrote:Listening to the podcast with Dalman he spoke a lot of sense and was very honest.
None of the agents involved in the deal have spoken about not taking their fees (in the instance of a transfer fee being paid). This in my opinion is bad taste.
He suggested to all parties a deal that to me, probably through blue tinted specs, seemed extremely fair way of ending the whole saga...
Agents take nothing.
Clubs take a hit of half the fee each.
Out of this they each pay 2m to Sala's family.
Left about 4.5m euros per club to pay.
How is that fair to Nantes?
They sold their best player for 17m euros and only get 4.5m euros of it?
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:02 am
jimmy_rat wrote:
I did say it's through blue tinted specs, I get your point. But this is a human being we're talking about.
I think it's all agreed, even by you, that there is no single party that can take complete blame for the tragedy.
To show empathy the 'cost' could be shared.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:04 am
Pembroke bluebird wrote:Roathy why are you obsessed with Cardiff city I am really interested as to why you have this unhealthy obsession
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:45 am
YDdraigGwyn wrote:
No, this has been explained to you before.
If he did not sign an amendment to the contract, he would be a Cardiff City player that was ineligible to play in the Premier League. Mercato's involvement ended after both contracts were signed (club to club and player to club). There were both done by the 19th of Jan.
The contract he signed with Cardiff was done prior to the termination of the Nantes employment.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:51 am
jimmy_rat wrote:Listening to the podcast with Dalman he spoke a lot of sense and was very honest.
None of the agents involved in the deal have spoken about not taking their fees (in the instance of a transfer fee being paid). This in my opinion is bad taste.
He suggested to all parties a deal that to me, probably through blue tinted specs, seemed extremely fair way of ending the whole saga...
Agents take nothing.
Clubs take a hit of half the fee each.
Out of this they each pay 2m to Sala's family.
Left about 4.5m euros per club to pay.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:56 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:jimmy_rat wrote:Listening to the podcast with Dalman he spoke a lot of sense and was very honest.
None of the agents involved in the deal have spoken about not taking their fees (in the instance of a transfer fee being paid). This in my opinion is bad taste.
He suggested to all parties a deal that to me, probably through blue tinted specs, seemed extremely fair way of ending the whole saga...
Agents take nothing.
Clubs take a hit of half the fee each.
Out of this they each pay 2m to Sala's family.
Left about 4.5m euros per club to pay.
TBH This would be the honourable way to resolve the matter as the whole issue was a sad set of circumstances
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:56 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:YDdraigGwyn wrote:
No, this has been explained to you before.
If he did not sign an amendment to the contract, he would be a Cardiff City player that was ineligible to play in the Premier League. Mercato's involvement ended after both contracts were signed (club to club and player to club). There were both done by the 19th of Jan.
The contract he signed with Cardiff was done prior to the termination of the Nantes employment.
Now your showing your ignorance of contract/employment law.
The fundamental part of the transfer was Sala being given the opportunity to play Premiership football. If we signed him on a contract which then prohibited him from doing so, then CCFC would have been in breach of contract and Sala would have had every right to have that contract torn up and return to Nantes FC. There is also the issue of how the signing on fee was to be paid. Sala might also have been unhappy with the amended terms and again CCFC would have been in breach of contract and the transfer would be null and void. The contract (and hence the transfer) was only valid once Sala signed the amended contract.
Mercato's involvement only ended when the amended contract was fully accepted by Sala's signature. The clue is in the way they arranged his return flight. Why would CCFC allow a third party who represented the selling club arrange a flight for a player they apparently owned?
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:59 am
jimmy_rat wrote:
Any normal person can see as much Tony.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:04 pm
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:04 pm
YDdraigGwyn wrote:Pembroke bluebird wrote:Roathy why are you obsessed with Cardiff city I am really interested as to why you have this unhealthy obsession
If you can use the PM function for questions about me that would be much appreciated by the thread. Will be happy to discuss.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:10 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:YDdraigGwyn wrote:
No, this has been explained to you before.
If he did not sign an amendment to the contract, he would be a Cardiff City player that was ineligible to play in the Premier League. Mercato's involvement ended after both contracts were signed (club to club and player to club). There were both done by the 19th of Jan.
The contract he signed with Cardiff was done prior to the termination of the Nantes employment.
Now your showing your ignorance of contract/employment law.
The fundamental part of the transfer was Sala being given the opportunity to play Premiership football. If we signed him on a contract which then prohibited him from doing so, then CCFC would have been in breach of contract and Sala would have had every right to have that contract torn up and return to Nantes FC. There is also the issue of how the signing on fee was to be paid. Sala might also have been unhappy with the amended terms and again CCFC would have been in breach of contract and the transfer would be null and void. The contract (and hence the transfer) was only valid once Sala signed the amended contract.
Mercato's involvement only ended when the amended contract was fully accepted by Sala's signature. The clue is in the way they arranged his return flight. Why would CCFC allow a third party who represented the selling club arrange a flight for a player they apparently owned?
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:22 pm
Pembroke bluebird wrote:Start a conversation with a weirdo on private messaging let me think for one tenth of a second umm No thanks
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:25 pm
Bluebina wrote:
He hasn't got a fecking clue, he's just one of those annoying twats you sometimes meet in a pub that will think they know about everything.
All he is trying to do is keep the thread going forever saying, your club is terrible and they have to pay, no matter what the facts are or what you reply, he will keep just trying to justify the stance he has taken, which is always anti-Cardiff, pro-Swansea.
I haven't wasted any time reading his shit, or the thread, I'm just trying to stop you wasting yours, it's always the same
Everyone just ignore him, no one knows what will happen, it will go on for years and be appealed time and time again.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:38 pm
YDdraigGwyn wrote:Bluebina wrote:
He hasn't got a fecking clue, he's just one of those annoying twats you sometimes meet in a pub that will think they know about everything.
All he is trying to do is keep the thread going forever saying, your club is terrible and they have to pay, no matter what the facts are or what you reply, he will keep just trying to justify the stance he has taken, which is always anti-Cardiff, pro-Swansea.
I haven't wasted any time reading his shit, or the thread, I'm just trying to stop you wasting yours, it's always the same
Everyone just ignore him, no one knows what will happen, it will go on for years and be appealed time and time again.
So what you are trying to say is that it’s too complicated for you to understand and because it seems like the club will lose its appeal and you cannot defend it against the sheer weight of evidence presented - you want everyone to ignore it and hope it goes away?
Makes sense I guess.
As has been said many times. There is a 21 page document to solve your assertion of “nobody having a clue” in order to form an opinion and reach a conclusion and have a discussion. II have also broken it down into manageable chunks for you. If you haven’t bothered doing either then I am not sure exactly what you are bringing to the thread.
These are THE facts of the case, they aren’t my facts.
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:40 pm
Bluebina wrote:
bore off you haven't got a clue what will happen
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:57 pm
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:28 pm
YDdraigGwyn wrote:
You have just made that up though. Nowhere in any agreement, verbal or written is that the case. It is also not the case the club are putting forward and this is saying something because they are really scraping the barrel with some of their points.
The fundamental part of the sale was to get as much money for their player as possible. Nantes were not selling Sala to benefit him and give him a nice treat to play in the Premier League. They wanted to “sell to a Premier League club” as due to the TV broadcasting money Premier League clubs have, sales are at a premium to Premier League based clubs.
What Cardiff signed him for is irrelevant, that is neither Sala or Nantes business.
Mercato have no interest in an internal matter between the club and the player, whether he gets to play in the Premier League doesn’t affect Mercato at all, their concern was that they facilitated the deal, which they did as confirmed by the timeline and reaffirmed by FIFA.
If Sala did not sign the amended contract, once again, Sala would be a Cardiff City player that could not play in the Premier League. His employment contract was already valid and would remain so until it expired. However it would be in both the club and players interests to amend that to allow him to play in the league. However once again amendment or not would of course not make the original any more valid than it already was.
I refer you to point 42. Which states:-
Moreover, the members of the Bureau pointed out that the registration of an employment contract with the Premier League not only consists of an internal matter between Cardiff and the Premier League and/or the FAW, but it is also a formal requirement over which Nantes has no influence. As a result, from the Bureau’s point, whether or not Cardiff and the agents representing the player had carried out the required due diligence in drafting an employment contract that was in conformity with the Premier League’s specific rules or not, can in no way affect the validity of the transfer agreement concluded between Nantes and Cardiff.
The four clauses that were to be in place before a deal was finalised were met and also the verbal agreement that Nantes wished to sell to a Premier League club.
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:43 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:YDdraigGwyn wrote:
You have just made that up though. Nowhere in any agreement, verbal or written is that the case. It is also not the case the club are putting forward and this is saying something because they are really scraping the barrel with some of their points.
The fundamental part of the sale was to get as much money for their player as possible. Nantes were not selling Sala to benefit him and give him a nice treat to play in the Premier League. They wanted to “sell to a Premier League club” as due to the TV broadcasting money Premier League clubs have, sales are at a premium to Premier League based clubs.
What Cardiff signed him for is irrelevant, that is neither Sala or Nantes business.
Mercato have no interest in an internal matter between the club and the player, whether he gets to play in the Premier League doesn’t affect Mercato at all, their concern was that they facilitated the deal, which they did as confirmed by the timeline and reaffirmed by FIFA.
If Sala did not sign the amended contract, once again, Sala would be a Cardiff City player that could not play in the Premier League. His employment contract was already valid and would remain so until it expired. However it would be in both the club and players interests to amend that to allow him to play in the league. However once again amendment or not would of course not make the original any more valid than it already was.
I refer you to point 42. Which states:-
Moreover, the members of the Bureau pointed out that the registration of an employment contract with the Premier League not only consists of an internal matter between Cardiff and the Premier League and/or the FAW, but it is also a formal requirement over which Nantes has no influence. As a result, from the Bureau’s point, whether or not Cardiff and the agents representing the player had carried out the required due diligence in drafting an employment contract that was in conformity with the Premier League’s specific rules or not, can in no way affect the validity of the transfer agreement concluded between Nantes and Cardiff.
The four clauses that were to be in place before a deal was finalised were met and also the verbal agreement that Nantes wished to sell to a Premier League club.
Again you are showing your ignorance of contract/employment law and your lateral thinking (and I'm being generous there!).
I am not making things up I am interpreting the law based on precedent. If someone is enticed to sign a contract and one party doesn't deliver then that party is in breach of contract and if it is fundamental then they can withdraw from the contract without penalty. They also must be put back into the position they were in before they entered into the contract which in Sala's case would have been playing for Nantes FC in the French league. CCFC might be liable for some reasonable costs but that's it.
Of course Sala was brought to club to play in the Premier League and that was an expressed clause. It doesn't need to be actually written down only implied on the balance of probabilities.
That fact that a bonus system for PL survival, PL wages, a relegation clause and his public expression of wanting to play in the PL existed would be more than enough Also it would need proof on the balance of probabilities that Sala would have been happy to not play any competitive games for 8 months (we were out of both cups).
You can point to FIFA interpretation all you want UK law overrides any finding they might make. FIFA might think it was an internal matter but a Judge might think it was part of the transfer processes and as the contract had been dismissed by the PL Sala wasn't obliged to honour his side and therefore no legal contract existed and the transfer failed until he signed an amended contract.
A Judge also has discretion & might deem that the transfer was influx and due to exceptional circumstances both sides should bare the losses on a 50/50 basis.
Personally I think this is best outcome with part of this money paid to the family and nothing to the agents involved.
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:54 pm
skidemin wrote:UK contract law only overrides FIFA if its relevant.. as do the Brecon darts league rules override FIFA where relevant...
its not relevant here... if it was relevant our club would be going down that route...
reword it again why don't you...
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:01 am
skidemin wrote:
UK contract law only overrides FIFA if its relevant.. as do the Brecon darts league rules override FIFA where relevant...
its not relevant here... if it was relevant our club would be going down that route...
reword it again why don't you...
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:05 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Again you are showing your ignorance of contract/employment law and your lateral thinking (and I'm being generous there!).
I am not making things up I am interpreting the law based on precedent. If someone is enticed to sign a contract and one party doesn't deliver then that party is in breach of contract and if it is fundamental then they can withdraw from the contract without penalty. They also must be put back into the position they were in before they entered into the contract which in Sala's case would have been playing for Nantes FC in the French league. CCFC might be liable for some reasonable costs but that's it.
Of course Sala was brought to club to play in the Premier League and that was an expressed clause. It doesn't need to be actually written down only implied on the balance of probabilities.
That fact that a bonus system for PL survival, PL wages, a relegation clause and his public expression of wanting to play in the PL existed would be more than enough Also it would need proof on the balance of probabilities that Sala would have been happy to not play any competitive games for 8 months (we were out of both cups).
You can point to FIFA interpretation all you want UK law overrides any finding they might make. FIFA might think it was an internal matter but a Judge might think it was part of the transfer processes and as the contract had been dismissed by the PL Sala wasn't obliged to honour his side and therefore no legal contract existed and the transfer failed until he signed an amended contract.
A Judge also has discretion & might deem that the transfer was influx and due to exceptional circumstances both sides should bare the losses on a 50/50 basis.
Personally I think this is best outcome with part of this money paid to the family and nothing to the agents involved.
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:33 am
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:57 am
Igovernor wrote:roathie as you are contantly repeating the same thing all the time and clogging up the board, I have banned you again, you can't help yourself
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:09 pm
pembroke allan wrote:Igovernor wrote:roathie as you are contantly repeating the same thing all the time and clogging up the board, I have banned you again, you can't help yourself
This thread is extension on the previous one he contributed to about the fifa ruling! so why make a new thread on same subject he is already controlling? Surprised he as time to contribute what with being employed by fifa... ccfc ... tans lawyers.... premier league.... and others who are involved in this case
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:47 pm
skidemin wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Igovernor wrote:roathie as you are contantly repeating the same thing all the time and clogging up the board, I have banned you again, you can't help yourself
This thread is extension on the previous one he contributed to about the fifa ruling! so why make a new thread on same subject he is already controlling? Surprised he as time to contribute what with being employed by fifa... ccfc ... tans lawyers.... premier league.... and others who are involved in this case
well you might not like him....might not like what he is saying.... but nine thousand views across the 2 threads he has got most involved in while half the threads on the first page struggle to get 300 is not clogging the board up...?
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:20 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Again you are showing your ignorance of contract/employment law and your lateral thinking (and I'm being generous there!).
I am not making things up I am interpreting the law based on precedent. If someone is enticed to sign a contract and one party doesn't deliver then that party is in breach of contract and if it is fundamental then they can withdraw from the contract without penalty. They also must be put back into the position they were in before they entered into the contract which in Sala's case would have been playing for Nantes FC in the French league. CCFC might be liable for some reasonable costs but that's it.
Of course Sala was brought to club to play in the Premier League and that was an expressed clause. It doesn't need to be actually written down only implied on the balance of probabilities.
That fact that a bonus system for PL survival, PL wages, a relegation clause and his public expression of wanting to play in the PL existed would be more than enough Also it would need proof on the balance of probabilities that Sala would have been happy to not play any competitive games for 8 months (we were out of both cups).
You can point to FIFA interpretation all you want UK law overrides any finding they might make. FIFA might think it was an internal matter but a Judge might think it was part of the transfer processes and as the contract had been dismissed by the PL Sala wasn't obliged to honour his side and therefore no legal contract existed and the transfer failed until he signed an amended contract.
A Judge also has discretion & might deem that the transfer was influx and due to exceptional circumstances both sides should bare the losses on a 50/50 basis.
Personally I think this is best outcome with part of this money paid to the family and nothing to the agents involved.