Sky Sports News: Wrexham player Refuses

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

McCLEAN STATEMENT
“I have addressed this matter many times, not that I should have to, but explaining it now on social media out of respect for work colleagues, team mates past and present, fans who have supported me (Wigan, Wrexham especially) for them to have a full understanding.
“The poppy represents for me an entirely different meaning to what it does for others. Am I offended by someone wearing a poppy? No absolutely not, what does offend me though, is having the poppy try be forced upon me.

“The poppy which originally stood for World War 1 and 2 has now been adopted into honouring and remembering British soldiers that have served in all conflicts throughout the world including those who opened fire and murdered 14 innocent civilians on bloody Sunday Jan 1972, in my home city, as well many other brutal crimes throughout Ireland.
“That is why I never have and never will wear a poppy. If the poppy’s sole purpose was to honour world war 1 and 2 then I would have no issue wearing it, but that’s not the case.
“I respect those who do as I am fully aware we have different beliefs and upbringings, I would never force my beliefs on others, I’m not naive or stupid enough to expect the matter to be reciprocated, especially as the poppy is forced now on everyone in the UK and god forbid someone doesn’t wear it, the abuse they have to endure. The irony of all of this is that the poppy originally stood to honour those who fought for the right of freedom in both world wars.
“Some people, no matter what, will not educate themselves or want to educate themselves, so to those who throw abuse about, (matters they know nothing about) with insults like ‘hates our country’ well I don’t, some of my best relationships I’ve made through the years are with people born and raised in England and have completely different beliefs to me.
“‘Happy to work and live in the uk but take the king's shilling, send him back to his home town to work then’. Well, the sad matter of fact is if i did I would still [be] getting paid in the ‘king’s shillings’ unfortunately which part of the whole problem to begin with.
“One thing I never have and never will do, is bend the knee to compromise my convictions.” McClean’s wife Erin tweeted: “I don’t know about the rest of you… but this is just boring now. 12 years on you’d think it’d be old news.”

McCLEAN STATEMENT
“I have addressed this matter many times, not that I should have to, but explaining it now on social media out of respect for work colleagues, team mates past and present, fans who have supported me (Wigan, Wrexham especially) for them to have a full understanding.
“The poppy represents for me an entirely different meaning to what it does for others. Am I offended by someone wearing a poppy? No absolutely not, what does offend me though, is having the poppy try be forced upon me.

“The poppy which originally stood for World War 1 and 2 has now been adopted into honouring and remembering British soldiers that have served in all conflicts throughout the world including those who opened fire and murdered 14 innocent civilians on bloody Sunday Jan 1972, in my home city, as well many other brutal crimes throughout Ireland.
“That is why I never have and never will wear a poppy. If the poppy’s sole purpose was to honour world war 1 and 2 then I would have no issue wearing it, but that’s not the case.
“I respect those who do as I am fully aware we have different beliefs and upbringings, I would never force my beliefs on others, I’m not naive or stupid enough to expect the matter to be reciprocated, especially as the poppy is forced now on everyone in the UK and god forbid someone doesn’t wear it, the abuse they have to endure. The irony of all of this is that the poppy originally stood to honour those who fought for the right of freedom in both world wars.
“Some people, no matter what, will not educate themselves or want to educate themselves, so to those who throw abuse about, (matters they know nothing about) with insults like ‘hates our country’ well I don’t, some of my best relationships I’ve made through the years are with people born and raised in England and have completely different beliefs to me.
“‘Happy to work and live in the uk but take the king's shilling, send him back to his home town to work then’. Well, the sad matter of fact is if i did I would still [be] getting paid in the ‘king’s shillings’ unfortunately which part of the whole problem to begin with.
“One thing I never have and never will do, is bend the knee to compromise my convictions.” McClean’s wife Erin tweeted: “I don’t know about the rest of you… but this is just boring now. 12 years on you’d think it’d be old news.”

Makes complete sense to me.

Disrespectful, every single player on every team he plays for should take it in turns to kick him off the park until he's injured and can't play. Then, if he doesn't like it, he can go to Ireland.

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

Nobody said he did & it has nothing to do with what I said.

McCLEAN STATEMENT
“I have addressed this matter many times, not that I should have to, but explaining it now on social media out of respect for work colleagues, team mates past and present, fans who have supported me (Wigan, Wrexham especially) for them to have a full understanding.
“The poppy represents for me an entirely different meaning to what it does for others. Am I offended by someone wearing a poppy? No absolutely not, what does offend me though, is having the poppy try be forced upon me.

“The poppy which originally stood for World War 1 and 2 has now been adopted into honouring and remembering British soldiers that have served in all conflicts throughout the world including those who opened fire and murdered 14 innocent civilians on bloody Sunday Jan 1972, in my home city, as well many other brutal crimes throughout Ireland.
“That is why I never have and never will wear a poppy. If the poppy’s sole purpose was to honour world war 1 and 2 then I would have no issue wearing it, but that’s not the case.
“I respect those who do as I am fully aware we have different beliefs and upbringings, I would never force my beliefs on others, I’m not naive or stupid enough to expect the matter to be reciprocated, especially as the poppy is forced now on everyone in the UK and god forbid someone doesn’t wear it, the abuse they have to endure. The irony of all of this is that the poppy originally stood to honour those who fought for the right of freedom in both world wars.
“Some people, no matter what, will not educate themselves or want to educate themselves, so to those who throw abuse about, (matters they know nothing about) with insults like ‘hates our country’ well I don’t, some of my best relationships I’ve made through the years are with people born and raised in England and have completely different beliefs to me.
“‘Happy to work and live in the uk but take the king's shilling, send him back to his home town to work then’. Well, the sad matter of fact is if i did I would still [be] getting paid in the ‘king’s shillings’ unfortunately which part of the whole problem to begin with.
“One thing I never have and never will do, is bend the knee to compromise my convictions.” McClean’s wife Erin tweeted: “I don’t know about the rest of you… but this is just boring now. 12 years on you’d think it’d be old news.”

No issue with his actions in this case at all.

Like he alludes to, there's a story about it every year even though everyone knows his beliefs - which he's entitled to. Also entitled to not take part in something he doesn't believe in.

As a Welshman/ Welsh speaker/ someone with Irish citizenship, I support him entirely. If you have any connection to the catholic north, you’d understand why. f**k the British army, up the Bluebirds

I note that the silence at Celtic’s game was drowned out in a few seconds.

The poppy symbolises different things for different people, just like the Union Jack and the Confederate flag in America. For many, the poppy symbolises the sacrifice millions of men made to defend our country; for others it is a symbol of Britain's oppressive imperialism. Both are true. It's a pity the organisers hadn't consulted with the Irish player beforehand. I hate to see politics mixed up with football - and the 'bending of the knee' thing almost put me off football for life. But they stopped it, thank God. I am not sure how this could have been resolved unless the player was not selected for the squad - but that would have been unfair on him.

I read he would wear a poppy if it was just for World wars one and two.
He is a catholic Irishman and some bad things went on out there such as Bloody Sunday.

If he is really that strong in his beliefs don’t take an English wage all these years and don’t live in England

Come on mate you know that’s not going to happen in reality. If we all moved out of countries that we didn’t agree with what was going on we’d have nowhere to live.

Spot on.

Because I don't agree with my local MP, doesn't mean I don't have the right to criticise them because I still live in the area.

McLean has gone too far in the past but have no issues with this, even though I disagree with his point of view.

If anything, fair play to him for sticking to his stance despite all the hate he knew he'd get.

No problem then Ned, then if he believes that seriously about it all, he should not live in England or take his wage from British or English Clubs, Simple.

Replies:

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Replies:

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

McCLEAN STATEMENT
“I have addressed this matter many times, not that I should have to, but explaining it now on social media out of respect for work colleagues, team mates past and present, fans who have supported me (Wigan, Wrexham especially) for them to have a full understanding.
“The poppy represents for me an entirely different meaning to what it does for others. Am I offended by someone wearing a poppy? No absolutely not, what does offend me though, is having the poppy try be forced upon me.

“The poppy which originally stood for World War 1 and 2 has now been adopted into honouring and remembering British soldiers that have served in all conflicts throughout the world including those who opened fire and murdered 14 innocent civilians on bloody Sunday Jan 1972, in my home city, as well many other brutal crimes throughout Ireland.
“That is why I never have and never will wear a poppy. If the poppy’s sole purpose was to honour world war 1 and 2 then I would have no issue wearing it, but that’s not the case.
“I respect those who do as I am fully aware we have different beliefs and upbringings, I would never force my beliefs on others, I’m not naive or stupid enough to expect the matter to be reciprocated, especially as the poppy is forced now on everyone in the UK and god forbid someone doesn’t wear it, the abuse they have to endure. The irony of all of this is that the poppy originally stood to honour those who fought for the right of freedom in both world wars.
“Some people, no matter what, will not educate themselves or want to educate themselves, so to those who throw abuse about, (matters they know nothing about) with insults like ‘hates our country’ well I don’t, some of my best relationships I’ve made through the years are with people born and raised in England and have completely different beliefs to me.
“‘Happy to work and live in the uk but take the king's shilling, send him back to his home town to work then’. Well, the sad matter of fact is if i did I would still [be] getting paid in the ‘king’s shillings’ unfortunately which part of the whole problem to begin with.
“One thing I never have and never will do, is bend the knee to compromise my convictions.” McClean’s wife Erin tweeted: “I don’t know about the rest of you… but this is just boring now. 12 years on you’d think it’d be old news.”

No issue with his actions in this case at all.

Like he alludes to, there's a story about it every year even though everyone knows his beliefs - which he's entitled to. Also entitled to not take part in something he doesn't believe in.

Ned,

He fully backs the IRA

And sings with them and sings anti British death songs that’s why he’s detested



If he is sincere don’t take money of the English Simple.

I read he would wear a poppy if it was just for World wars one and two.
He is a catholic Irishman and some bad things went on out there such as Bloody Sunday.

If he is really that strong in his beliefs don’t take an English wage all these years and don’t live in England

Come on mate you know that’s not going to happen in reality. If we all moved out of countries that we didn’t agree with what was going on we’d have nowhere to live.

Spot on.

Because I don't agree with my local MP, doesn't mean I don't have the right to criticise them because I still live in the area.

McLean has gone too far in the past but have no issues with this, even though I disagree with his point of view.

If anything, fair play to him for sticking to his stance despite all the hate he knew he'd get.

No problem then Ned, then if he believes that seriously about it all, he should not live in England or take his wage from British or English Clubs, Simple.

I disagree. He's a British taxpayer so is as entitled as anyone to give his opinion on the UK.

Just because he doesn't like that part of our history and takes a stand, it doesn't mean he shouldn't be told not to live here.

There are millions of people who don't like the UK Government at any one time but we don't tell them not to get paid in this country so it's no different for him. Same is true for other countries.

I have no problem with his actions this weekend and in a way hope he continues to do this on rememberance weekend because he is fully entitled to.

He's done nothing wrong this weekend.

People may disagree with his opinions (I do) but it doesn't make him wrong and he has the right to continue to do this and earn his money/pay his tax in the UK.

I read he would wear a poppy if it was just for World wars one and two.
He is a catholic Irishman and some bad things went on out there such as Bloody Sunday.

If he is really that strong in his beliefs don’t take an English wage all these years and don’t live in England

Come on mate you know that’s not going to happen in reality. If we all moved out of countries that we didn’t agree with what was going on we’d have nowhere to live.

Spot on.

Because I don't agree with my local MP, doesn't mean I don't have the right to criticise them because I still live in the area.

McLean has gone too far in the past but have no issues with this, even though I disagree with his point of view.

If anything, fair play to him for sticking to his stance despite all the hate he knew he'd get.

No problem then Ned, then if he believes that seriously about it all, he should not live in England or take his wage from British or English Clubs, Simple.

I disagree. He's a British taxpayer so is as entitled as anyone to give his opinion on the UK.

Just because he doesn't like that part of our history and takes a stand, it doesn't mean he shouldn't be told not to live here.

There are millions of people who don't like the UK Government at any one time but we don't tell them not to get paid in this country so it's no different for him. Same is true for other countries.

I have no problem with his actions this weekend and in a way hope he continues to do this on rememberance weekend because he is fully entitled to.

He's done nothing wrong this weekend.

People may disagree with his opinions (I do) but it doesn't make him wrong and he has the right to continue to do this and earn his money/pay his tax in the UK.

If he hates the British and hates the Sovereign so much and his beliefs he would have nothing to do with them like I would never go near Israel.

Replies:

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Replies:

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Replies:

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

90% of the soldiers on the first boats to hit the beach didn't live to see the end of the day. Look at those faces. Some of them never made it to 18.

They paid the ultimate price for your freedom. You live your life the way you do because of them.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

Nobody said he did & it has nothing to do with what I said.

I’m sure JJ was stating that McLean earns his trade in England (now wales) after stating his beliefs while El Ghazi has stood up for Palestine and NOT made his living in Israel. Straightforward enough and it does answer what you seem to be implying

Mr self reightous McLean quotes in his statement,"I would never force my views on anybody else". Yet there is a picture of him in a balaclava teaching his kids anti British views entitled today's history lesson.

I wonder what dear old Tom Farquharson would have done.

There's a comparison between Israel and Gaza and Ireland and Britain.
The British army put down the 1916 uprising in Dublin & Executing its leaders
From 1919 to 1921 the IRA engaged in guerrilla warfare with the Brits.1921 Southern Ireland is formed.
During the second world war Dubliners left the lights on in order to guide Nazi bombers into Northern Ireland.McClean is not the only Irishman who hates the Brits and takes the Kings shilling
The nazi's had many friend's in the second world way Arab countries,Spain and Portugal.

In debates like this I put myself in my advarsary shoes.

Mclean comes from an anti British Republican area and his beliefs are very strongly anti British. So why is he playing his football in England/Wales?

Hipocracy is the onlt word I can think of here.

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

Nobody said he did & it has nothing to do with what I said.

I’m sure JJ was stating that McLean earns his trade in England (now wales) after stating his beliefs while El Ghazi has stood up for Palestine and NOT made his living in Israel. Straightforward enough and it does answer what you seem to be implying

It's more to do with his freedom to say what he believes in rather than where. El Ghazi was stopped from playing football for his belief by his club & shouldn't have been whereas according to some McClean said what he believes & should be banned from playing football according to others. My point is that one shouldn't be right while the other is seen as automatically wrong when they are both stating their point of view. We might not agree with one, or the other or both points of view but my whole point isn't that one is right & one is wrong but that they should be allowed to express their view or neither should.

I'm just asking the question & not taking sides despite the fact that my grandfather lost both of his legs in WW2 I still believe that they should both be allowed to express their view how they like as long as they're not causing physical harm to anyone, because isn't that what those brave soldiers fought for.

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

Nobody said he did & it has nothing to do with what I said.

I’m sure JJ was stating that McLean earns his trade in England (now wales) after stating his beliefs while El Ghazi has stood up for Palestine and NOT made his living in Israel. Straightforward enough and it does answer what you seem to be implying

It's more to do with his freedom to say what he believes in rather than where. El Ghazi was stopped from playing football for his belief by his club & shouldn't have been whereas according to some McClean said what he believes & should be banned from playing football according to others. My point is that one shouldn't be right while the other is seen as automatically wrong when they are both stating their point of view. We might not agree with one, or the other or both points of view but my whole point isn't that one is right & one is wrong but that they should be allowed to express their view or neither should.

I'm just asking the question & not taking sides despite the fact that my grandfather lost both of his legs in WW2 I still believe that they should both be allowed to express their view how they like as long as they're not causing physical harm to anyone, because isn't that what those brave soldiers fought for.

Spot on.

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

Nobody said he did & it has nothing to do with what I said.

I’m sure JJ was stating that McLean earns his trade in England (now wales) after stating his beliefs while El Ghazi has stood up for Palestine and NOT made his living in Israel. Straightforward enough and it does answer what you seem to be implying

It's more to do with his freedom to say what he believes in rather than where. El Ghazi was stopped from playing football for his belief by his club & shouldn't have been whereas according to some McClean said what he believes & should be banned from playing football according to others. My point is that one shouldn't be right while the other is seen as automatically wrong when they are both stating their point of view. We might not agree with one, or the other or both points of view but my whole point isn't that one is right & one is wrong but that they should be allowed to express their view or neither should.

I'm just asking the question & not taking sides despite the fact that my grandfather lost both of his legs in WW2 I still believe that they should both be allowed to express their view how they like as long as they're not causing physical harm to anyone, because isn't that what those brave soldiers fought for.

Agree wholeheartedly. That doesn’t mean I agree with his stance, but with his right to peacefully express it.

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

Nobody said he did & it has nothing to do with what I said.

I’m sure JJ was stating that McLean earns his trade in England (now wales) after stating his beliefs while El Ghazi has stood up for Palestine and NOT made his living in Israel. Straightforward enough and it does answer what you seem to be implying

It's more to do with his freedom to say what he believes in rather than where. El Ghazi was stopped from playing football for his belief by his club & shouldn't have been whereas according to some McClean said what he believes & should be banned from playing football according to others. My point is that one shouldn't be right while the other is seen as automatically wrong when they are both stating their point of view. We might not agree with one, or the other or both points of view but my whole point isn't that one is right & one is wrong but that they should be allowed to express their view or neither should.

I'm just asking the question & not taking sides despite the fact that my grandfather lost both of his legs in WW2 I still believe that they should both be allowed to express their view how they like as long as they're not causing physical harm to anyone, because isn't that what those brave soldiers fought for.

Agree wholeheartedly. That doesn’t mean I agree with his stance, but with his right to peacefully express it.

I want everyone to fight for peace and to stop all Massacres.


He is the opposite, Only 2 yrs ago he dressed up with his Children in Balaclava’s and with a pretend Machine Gun doing the IRA Salute that’s not the type of person who craves peace.

Do I agree with him? Certainly not but this is quite an interesting thread considering the fanfare El Ghazi got on here for sticking up for his beliefs & his right to say it as he sees it.

To the best of my knowledge El Ghazi didn't go and play in Israel

Nobody said he did & it has nothing to do with what I said.

I’m sure JJ was stating that McLean earns his trade in England (now wales) after stating his beliefs while El Ghazi has stood up for Palestine and NOT made his living in Israel. Straightforward enough and it does answer what you seem to be implying

It's more to do with his freedom to say what he believes in rather than where. El Ghazi was stopped from playing football for his belief by his club & shouldn't have been whereas according to some McClean said what he believes & should be banned from playing football according to others. My point is that one shouldn't be right while the other is seen as automatically wrong when they are both stating their point of view. We might not agree with one, or the other or both points of view but my whole point isn't that one is right & one is wrong but that they should be allowed to express their view or neither should.

I'm just asking the question & not taking sides despite the fact that my grandfather lost both of his legs in WW2 I still believe that they should both be allowed to express their view how they like as long as they're not causing physical harm to anyone, because isn't that what those brave soldiers fought for.

Agree wholeheartedly. That doesn’t mean I agree with his stance, but with his right to peacefully express it.

I want everyone to fight for peace and to stop all Massacres.


He is the opposite, Only 2 yrs ago he dressed up with his Children in Balaclava’s and with a pretend Machine Gun doing the IRA Salute that’s not the type of person who craves peace.

Can’t argue with that mate but all he did yesterday was peacefully stand away from his team mates. I get the anger, don’t get me wrong, but he has valid reasons for his opinion.

I read he would wear a poppy if it was just for World wars one and two.
He is a catholic Irishman and some bad things went on out there such as Bloody Sunday.

If he is really that strong in his beliefs don’t take an English wage all these years and don’t live in England

Come on mate you know that’s not going to happen in reality. If we all moved out of countries that we didn’t agree with what was going on we’d have nowhere to live.

Spot on.

Because I don't agree with my local MP, doesn't mean I don't have the right to criticise them because I still live in the area.

McLean has gone too far in the past but have no issues with this, even though I disagree with his point of view.

If anything, fair play to him for sticking to his stance despite all the hate he knew he'd get.

It appears fans are not supporters of rememberence in football either... celtic fans started booing and singing at start of ceremony at Kilmarnock causing it to be stopped 30seconds into it...
They wouldn't be enjoying their freedom if not for the sacrifices of their relatives... "less we forget"