THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE IS GOING TO HAPPEN

The winding up order was proposed not made. Once agreed by the courts it is then 'made'

Thank you for that but it states there on c) have a winding-up order made in respect of that Club; would suggest that we should have already had a points deduction.

No an 'order' is put down by a Judge at the end of a hearing if he finds the club insolvent.

What we have is a 'winding up petition' which could lead to a 'winding up order'

Leeds were docked their 15 points for NOT going into a CVA from administration, which would suggest no deduction for going into one

No an 'order' is put down by a Judge at the end of a hearing if he finds the club insolvent.

What we have is a 'winding up petition' which could lead to a 'winding up order'

Thats what i was trying to say, you put it betteer than me

So................forget the play offs then

as CCFClover says in his copy and paste bit from the football league rules if we go down the CVA route it would be no different to administration with regard to a 10 point deuction. So yes we will have a 10 point deduction.

Well the FL rules are crystal - any CVA put in place with creditors will result in a 10 points deduction.

As for the winding up order Carl - HMRC have petitioned the court to impose one but until the petition is granted by the court, there is no winding up order in place hence no 10 points deducted.

So in short a CVA for the football part of the club will have the same effect as going into administration in that it loses 10 points.

The weasel words of PR strike again - as he said we are not going into admin but it looks as though the route they have chosen has the same effect on the football side.

Of course the long and short of it is that we still have a football club at the end of this - let's hope they have taken good advice and this runs smoothly and gets us to a better place.

Its strange because it was a route that Notts County were supposedly looking into before they paid their tax:

from the Telegraph

Notts County owner wants to take club into CVA to avoid administration
New Notts County owner, Ray Trew, is hoping to avoid administration and the 10-point penalty that comes with it by taking his club into a Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA), Telegraph Sport has learnt.

These are advertising links but explains what a CVA is and means pretty comprehensively.

http://www.wilsonfield.co.uk/corporate/cva.htm

http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company- ... ement.html

No an 'order' is put down by a Judge at the end of a hearing if he finds the club insolvent.

What we have is a 'winding up petition' which could lead to a 'winding up order'

Thats what i was trying to say, you put it betteer than me

So................forget the play offs then

That's what I was trying to say, just you put it better than me

Thank you for that but it states there on c) have a winding-up order made in respect of that Club; would suggest that we should have already had a points deduction.

Carl. All we've had so far are winding up petitions. A winding-up order is what the Court could grant on Wednesday.

I think I'm just gonna stay away from the politics side of things now.

It's all getting a bit too heavy for me and, although I'll be straight on here on Wednesday to find out what's going on, I'm not gonna beat myself up about it all too much.

I'll be at Leicester on Saturday no matter what!

Well the FL rules are crystal - any CVA put in place with creditors will result in a 10 points deduction.

Correct but there is a little bit extra to that. 75% of all creditors must agree to the repayment schedule or there can be an extra 15 point deduction.

Recently the HMRC have been the biggest problem with clubs failing to enter into a CVA and therefore have had extra point deductions.

Probably explains why the £1m+ has already been repaid.

HMRC are gagging for the blood of a football club, (any football club) - we would need to agree to pay them in full and deliver of that I have no doubt.

I believe Sam Hammam will hhave massive influence at any CVa meeting as the largest unsecured creditor.

A couple of months ago I would have had no doubt he would hold the whip hand as he surely had over 75% of the value of the unsecured debt.

Given the mess we are now in things may have changed and while Hammam will have a massive influence, he may no longer hold 75% of the unsecured debt on his own.

Still let's hope the club have secured Hammam's agreement to this - that would be a massive obstacle to getting the CVA approved out of the way.

Interestingly I belive under a CVA it is easy to terminate employees contracts without recompense as the company restructures.

It's not an easy route but it's better than liquidation if it works and comes off.

what a shocking state of affairs for our board to get us into.
everyone of them will be tainted if we go into admin, cva or whatever you wish to call it.
why is borley leaving it so late to go to malaysia, out of the country when the shite hits the fan, i guess.
how anyone can defend the riddler or anyone on the board is beyond belief, probably the saddest week in the history of this great club is about to unfold over the next seven days,
the board should hold their heads in shame.
sorry but if this happens, time to start the protests in the ground.
they should ALL be banned from ever holding a position in a football club ever again.
guess they all wouldnt care with the money they have paid themselves over the last 3 years or so.
surely there should be an inquiry into the directors ability to run or be part of a business ever again.

The following are tests of 'wrongful trading' by Directors. Commonly known as trading while insolvent.

The tests for wrongful trading actions include:

1. Not filing Annual Returns for the company at Companies House.

2. Not filing annual or audited accounts at Companies House.

3. Not operating the PAYE scheme correctly, failing to pay PAYE and NIC when due, building up arrears.

4. Not operating the VAT scheme correctly, building up arrears.

5. Taking excessive salaries when the company cannot afford them.

6. Taking credit from suppliers where there was no "reasonable prospect" of paying the creditor on time.

7. Willfully piling up debt.

How many of these boxes do our board tick?

Another advantage of a CVA rather than administration for our Directors is that it is not a formal insolvency event unlike admin. If there is a formal insolvency event, ie admin, liquidation, creditors voluntary liquidation or administrative receivership the board of directors can be investigated for wrongful trading and action taken against them.

Wonder if that was in their minds when opting for this route?

is there anybox our directors do not tick?

Thank you to all who have responded with replies to my question

Taking all the above into consideration, some very good points but didn't Luton try a similar stunt?

From what I can remember, very little as I have about as much interest in Luton as, erm someone who isn't from Luton, but didn't they try a CVA with some sort of "Golden Share" from the football league? I think Portsmouth have used a similar technique but with the Prem League. One step towards the franchise system used in the good ole US of A where the leagues hold the clout not the clubs.

There was some talk a few years back involving MK Dons as a sort of bait for the yanks to come with loads of money to buy up small clubs then super charge them into the Premier. At the same time, this is a fact, the top Prem clubs were looking to bail out into a pan european league taking the TV and advert money with them. This I'm led to believe is on the "back burner" for the time being.

Be interesting if anyone knows how/why luton ended up with, what 30 points or something like that

Here is your answer

Football League Rules

The Football League Rules covering insolvency procedures state the following :

12.3.1 With effect from 10th May 2004, if any Club shall :-

a) have a manager, administrator, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of that Club or any part of its undertaking or assets;

b) have an administration order made in respect of that Club;

c) have a winding-up order made in respect of that Club;

d) pass a resolution for the winding-up of that Club;

e) enter into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in respect of the payment of its debts or part of them as a company voluntary arrangement under the Insolvency Act 1986 ort Scheme of Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985; or

f) have an proceeding or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing;

that Club shall be deducted 10 points.

Thank you for that but it states there on c) have a winding-up order made in respect of that Club; would suggest that we should have already had a points deduction.

No, there has been no winding-up order made. HMRC have merely filed a winding-up petition that is vastly different to a winding-up order actually being made by a judge.