Everything is in place ' My feelings '

Agree.the only thing I disagree with is that we cant get the Ninian Park atmosphere back. Your wrong, we can. If Tan swaps the canton with the family stand so that all the canton lads are next to the away fans but it is still the grange end it would be bouncing again. Maybe if he did this he who'd redeem himself for the rebrand. Also, this safe standing thing seems quite good if we could get it. Again, if Tan gets it, it would redeem him with most fans.

The family stand is not there by chance mate, the club and the police have sorted that out to avoid the exact atmosphere your trying to create with your suggestion. Our club has a bad rep from years gone by and the club want that gone, there's more chance if us signing Messi on a bosman and sticking him in goals than your suggestion becoming a reality in my opinion.

As for safe standing, totally agree, let's hope that's the future of footie stadiums

Excellent original post Key point for me is the ACCEPTANCE of rebranding, it seems huge majority fall into this bracket. Accept doesn't necessarily mean being happy with it, but supporting the manager and the team regardless, cos we're still Cardiff City Fc, " the greatest team in football, the world has ever seen ".

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

What makes you so sure?

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

We are in £100 million in debt losing £20 million a year. We have nothing of value except the stadium (worth £30 million) and the playing staff (worth bout £10 million). No new investors would come in so honestly if we went down that path of admin I think we would be liquidated even if we wasnt we couldnt afford to run the club as Gwyn has stated

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

We are in £100 million in debt losing £20 million a year. We have nothing of value except the stadium (worth £30 million) and the playing staff (worth bout £10 million). No new investors would come in so honestly if we went down that path of admin I think we would be liquidated even if we wasnt we couldnt afford to run the club as Gwyn has stated

barry how do you know we wouldnt been liquidated? no speculation just facts! something you know that all the rest of us dont know!!! because from where i am sitting if i owed x amount with no way paying like city were, i would be made bankrupt!! so please tell us how you know we would not have been liquidated ?

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

We are in £100 million in debt losing £20 million a year. We have nothing of value except the stadium (worth £30 million) and the playing staff (worth bout £10 million). No new investors would come in so honestly if we went down that path of admin I think we would be liquidated even if we wasnt we couldnt afford to run the club as Gwyn has stated

barry how do you know we wouldnt been liquidated? no speculation just facts! something you know that all the rest of us dont know!!! because from where i am sitting if i owed x amount with no way paying like city were, i would be made bankrupt!! so please tell us how you know we would not have been liquidated ?

and remember cannot sell stadium so only players as assets!

BRILLIANT POST GAV

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

Well tell us what you know that is different to what the CEO and others at the club were concerned about, do you think HMRC would have handled us differently to how they handled Rangers then, are you aware of the Admin procedures and what you have to agree with debtors to come out of admin, we go into admin and very unlikely we come out, hence liquidation, telll us your vision and business plan?

Gwyn I asked same question yesterday no reply, like all people who say wouldn't. Be liquidated they don't have valid reason to say why won't be! When the facts suggest otherwise!

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

We are in £100 million in debt losing £20 million a year. We have nothing of value except the stadium (worth £30 million) and the playing staff (worth bout £10 million). No new investors would come in so honestly if we went down that path of admin I think we would be liquidated even if we wasnt we couldnt afford to run the club as Gwyn has stated

barry how do you know we wouldnt been liquidated? no speculation just facts! something you know that all the rest of us dont know!!! because from where i am sitting if i owed x amount with no way paying like city were, i would be made bankrupt!! so please tell us how you know we would not have been liquidated ?

Please don't speak to me with such poor grammar again, it took an age to read your comment.

I say we wouldn't have been declared bankrupt because the Malaysians were more than happy to withdraw the plans for the rebrand after the fans initial outcry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-18022700

They would revisit their options and look add additional partners.

There is no way we would have "died".

Enjoy your fake Man Utd shirts though

Merlin, it was never red or dead. That was just a threat.

Yes, we would have lost players and would struggle - but we would still be Cardiff City.

I don't feel we are really the true Cardiff City anymore. Just a club with an identity crisis and an even bigger debt than before.

I appreciate that others see it as a positive, however.

I keep hearing this spin, but those that were there will know that when asked what would happen if VT stuck to his proposals that he's sent in his statement, the CEO stated that without finding new investors the club would cease to be able to trade within a few months.

Now if you see that as a positive possibility then good on you, I for one wasn't prepared to risk the coexistence of a club that I loved, colour or no colour.

Do you believe new investors would have stepped in, Admin would have been the best option if available, but the position most likely would have been liquidation and like Rangers a new club reforming, but unlike Rangers we may not have been allowed straight back into the English Pyramid system and if we had at what level do you think.

I'm sure the Welsh FA would have taken us back at a flash. We could not afford the running cost at the new stadium unless we had huge crowds, the TV money would dry up as would sponsorship, we would not afford the training facilities and would have to shelve the academy, now you may consider tha as an option worth taking to play more often in a Blue shirt, but luckilly the huge majority wanted a different outcome and commons sense and people power as won the day.

Nonsense, there is no way we would have been liquidated.

If you honestly believe that, then keep telling yourself it.

We are in £100 million in debt losing £20 million a year. We have nothing of value except the stadium (worth £30 million) and the playing staff (worth bout £10 million). No new investors would come in so honestly if we went down that path of admin I think we would be liquidated even if we wasnt we couldnt afford to run the club as Gwyn has stated

barry how do you know we wouldnt been liquidated? no speculation just facts! something you know that all the rest of us dont know!!! because from where i am sitting if i owed x amount with no way paying like city were, i would be made bankrupt!! so please tell us how you know we would not have been liquidated ?

Please don't speak to me with such poor grammar again, it took an age to read your comment.

I say we wouldn't have been declared bankrupt because the Malaysians were more than happy to withdraw the plans for the rebrand after the fans initial outcry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-18022700

They would revisit their options and look add additional partners.

There is no way we would have "died".

Enjoy your fake Man Utd shirts though

You are correct but do you think additional partners would have been found? After all no one else was interested in investing in us before

Who knows? People may have been interested in Working alongside the Malaysians.

If they let the club die, they would have lost their initial investments anyway, they wouldn't have let that happen.

Who knows? People may have been interested in Working alongside the Malaysians.

If they let the club die, they would have lost their initial investments anyway, they wouldn't have let that happen.

Well if we had known that we wouldn't have had to accept the rebrand, why didn't you let us know at the time, if you had this info, why didn't you share it, really this whole fiasco could have been stopped by you. Shame on you Chuckles.

Who knows? People may have been interested in Working alongside the Malaysians.

If they let the club die, they would have lost their initial investments anyway, they wouldn't have let that happen.

Well if we had known that we wouldn't have had to accept the rebrand, why didn't you let us know at the time, if you had this info, why didn't you share it, really this whole fiasco could have been stopped by you. Shame on you Chuckles.

It just appears that fans are more interested in big budget and top players than keeping our heritage and identity.

Shame really. Don't worry Gwyn, CCFC now have a lot more debt than before and are playing without any sort identity, just like you wanted

being a smart arse about my grammar doesnt alter the fact that you fail to say how you knew we would not have been liquidated before vt came in, which is what the question related to not after he put money in! nobody knows what would have happened in reality, (except you?) but on balance of probability it would have led to liquidation! And do you think vt would have changed his mind about colour with or without protest? well their was enough outcry for him to realise it was wrong descision, but he didnt change mind even then because he wanted it for whatever reason.

no it wasnt red or dead as club would always survive in some form afc cardiff maybe???

Who knows? People may have been interested in Working alongside the Malaysians.

If they let the club die, they would have lost their initial investments anyway, they wouldn't have let that happen.

Well if we had known that we wouldn't have had to accept the rebrand, why didn't you let us know at the time, if you had this info, why didn't you share it, really this whole fiasco could have been stopped by you. Shame on you Chuckles.

It just appears that fans are more interested in big budget and top players than keeping our heritage and identity.

Shame really. Don't worry Gwyn, CCFC now have a lot more debt than before and are playing without any sort identity, just like you wanted

shows you dont understand anything about ccfc, our identity is the name cardiff city not the shirt colour!we play in many colours dont we? the bluebird is more identity than shirt ever was!! and we are always called same name, and we always use same badge! but not same colour shirt! its that simple.

That's your opinion "Pembroke Alan" mine is different - however unlike you, I won't stoop to claim you "don't know anything about" the club.

being a smart arse about my grammar doesnt alter the fact that you fail to say how you knew we would not have been liquidated before vt came in, which is what the question related to not after he put money in! nobody knows what would have happened in reality, (except you?) but on balance of probability it would have led to liquidation! And do you think vt would have changed his mind about colour with or without protest? well their was enough outcry for him to realise it was wrong descision, but he didnt change mind even then because he wanted it for whatever reason.

no it wasnt red or dead as club would always survive in some form afc cardiff maybe???

I think you'll find I DID answer your question, if you read my posts correctly?

Who knows? People may have been interested in Working alongside the Malaysians.

If they let the club die, they would have lost their initial investments anyway, they wouldn't have let that happen.

Well if we had known that we wouldn't have had to accept the rebrand, why didn't you let us know at the time, if you had this info, why didn't you share it, really this whole fiasco could have been stopped by you. Shame on you Chuckles.

It just appears that fans are more interested in big budget and top players than keeping our heritage and identity.

Shame really. Don't worry Gwyn, CCFC now have a lot more debt than before and are playing without any sort identity, just like you wanted

A different view would be that the debt picture is misleading due to the ability of Mr Tan to convert his investment into equity.Furthermore we are still Cardiff City FC and the club's history cannot be taken away by a change of shirt colour. The club also has a measure of investment in the playing squad and infrastructure that has never been seen before and it seems to be paying off. The last bit we all wanted (apart from the jack trolls and other trolls on this board) and the majority seem to have taken the shirt change on board however reluctantly.

Great - somebody on this forum who can debate without resorting to petty insults!

I can see some of your points, but I didn't mention history. I mentioned identity - which very much has been taken away by this.

This conversion was supposed to happen in September - still hasn't happened & whilst it hasn't - it's toting up our interest to Tan.

All it means is that we are getting further and further into debt.

Investment in infrastructure? What investment is this exactly?

Great - somebody on this forum who can debate without resorting to petty insults!

I can see some of your points, but I didn't mention history. I mentioned identity - which very much has been taken away by this.
The club is still known as Cardiff City FC
This conversion was supposed to happen in September - still hasn't happened & whilst it hasn't - it's toting up our interest to Tan.
It can still happen. Interest is no doubt totting up but the loan is from Mr Tan at a low rate and not from an external source like a bank or even someone like Michael Isaac at 15%
All it means is that we are getting further and further into debt. It's Mr Tan's money and that puts a different complexion on the matter.

Investment in infrastructure? What investment is this exactly?

I refer to the infrastructure surrounding the playing squad in terms of back up staff etc. It is also worth noting that the eggers have been paid off and with the pitch lighting there is a first class surface on which the team are playing good football.

Great - somebody on this forum who can debate without resorting to petty insults!

I can see some of your points, but I didn't mention history. I mentioned identity - which very much has been taken away by this.
The club is still known as Cardiff City FC
This conversion was supposed to happen in September - still hasn't happened & whilst it hasn't - it's toting up our interest to Tan.
It can still happen. Interest is no doubt totting up but the loan is from Mr Tan at a low rate and not from an external source like a bank or even someone like Michael Isaac at 15%
All it means is that we are getting further and further into debt. It's Mr Tan's money and that puts a different complexion on the matter.

Investment in infrastructure? What investment is this exactly?

I refer to the infrastructure surrounding the playing squad in terms of back up staff etc. It is also worth noting that the eggers have been paid off and with the pitch lighting there is a first class surface on which the team are playing good football.

That doesn't add up to the totals suggested though.

Great - somebody on this forum who can debate without resorting to petty insults!

I can see some of your points, but I didn't mention history. I mentioned identity - which very much has been taken away by this.
The club is still known as Cardiff City FC
This conversion was supposed to happen in September - still hasn't happened & whilst it hasn't - it's toting up our interest to Tan.
It can still happen. Interest is no doubt totting up but the loan is from Mr Tan at a low rate and not from an external source like a bank or even someone like Michael Isaac at 15%
All it means is that we are getting further and further into debt. It's Mr Tan's money and that puts a different complexion on the matter.

Investment in infrastructure? What investment is this exactly?

I refer to the infrastructure surrounding the playing squad in terms of back up staff etc. It is also worth noting that the eggers have been paid off and with the pitch lighting there is a first class surface on which the team are playing good football.

That doesn't add up to the totals suggested though.

Which totals?

That's your opinion "Pembroke Alan" mine is different - however unlike you, I won't stoop to claim you "don't know anything about" the club.

Its Allan! Actually I no sfa but I admit it, I don know anything because I don't work For vt or city, you act as if you know all the facts! Hence your comments on city's financial affairs. Onlyy opinion of course.!

And what I" said regarding identity Is far More accurate than you'rs, by definition! You lose You're Face How would You be known by family? Youre Name thats your identity simple isn't it?

That's your opinion "Pembroke Alan" mine is different - however unlike you, I won't stoop to claim you "don't know anything about" the club.

Its Allan! Actually I no sfa but I admit it, I don know anything because I don't work For vt or city, you act as if you know all the facts! Hence your comments on city's financial affairs. Onlyy opinion of course.!

And what I" said regarding identity Is far More accurate than you'rs, by definition! You lose You're Face How would You be known by family? Youre Name thats your identity simple isn't it?

I haven't claimed to know it all - just offering my opinion of what I think would have happened if city fans actually had a bit of back bone.

Regarding the identity - in that situation, you'd be correct - but it doesn't fit different circumstances. For me, identity is about the crest, colour, nickname and other things.

That's only my opinion though and respect yours.

Who knows? People may have been interested in Working alongside the Malaysians.

If they let the club die, they would have lost their initial investments anyway, they wouldn't have let that happen.

Well if we had known that we wouldn't have had to accept the rebrand, why didn't you let us know at the time, if you had this info, why didn't you share it, really this whole fiasco could have been stopped by you. Shame on you Chuckles.

It just appears that fans are more interested in big budget and top players than keeping our heritage and identity.

Shame really. Don't worry Gwyn, CCFC now have a lot more debt than before and are playing without any sort identity, just like you wanted

Debt is debt, you can only lose all your assets, so we may as well lose them for the sake of a hundred million rather than ten million, the debt is Vincent Tan's debt, its not mine and its not yours, Vincent Tans debt is to himself, we don't owe anyone else money.

But I blame you, because as you stated ypu knew, you had proof and you never let us know, we could have stopped this, its all down to you.

Who knows? People may have been interested in Working alongside the Malaysians.

If they let the club die, they would have lost their initial investments anyway, they wouldn't have let that happen.

Well if we had known that we wouldn't have had to accept the rebrand, why didn't you let us know at the time, if you had this info, why didn't you share it, really this whole fiasco could have been stopped by you. Shame on you Chuckles.

It just appears that fans are more interested in big budget and top players than keeping our heritage and identity.

Shame really. Don't worry Gwyn, CCFC now have a lot more debt than before and are playing without any sort identity, just like you wanted

Debt is debt, you can only lose all your assets, so we may as well lose them for the sake of a hundred million rather than ten million, the debt is Vincent Tan's debt, its not mine and its not yours, Vincent Tans debt is to himself, we don't owe anyone else money.

But I blame you, because as you stated ypu knew, you had proof and you never let us know, we could have stopped this, its all down to you.

Okay, whatever.

Which totals Barry?

Which totals Barry?

The debt level - it's worryingly high & yet what is in the pipeline (stadium expansion, training ground) still hasn't even started yet.

Worrying.