VT gives Cardiff family holiday of a lifetime

I'm a lurker on here and just thought I'd say this is definately NOT an arranged PR stunt (as much as some people seem to want to believe that). The family are friends and it happened the way the Echo reported it.

Another ITK lurker with no post history

Do you honestly think the husband would tell you if it was a publicity stunt? I wouldn't even tell my wife incase she blew it.

I've just seen The photo of VT with the kids in red shirts such abig give away, Infact it's such a bizare act of PR, I'd put it on a par with some of the PR stunts Saddam Hussain Et Al used to pull. And again it's not Tan i'm disapointed with as we all know his ilk. Another piece of my blue heart punctures with the naivity of my fellow city fans. We're becomming a bigger joke as each year goes by.

No, you're right mate. I actually work secretly for Tan to infiltrate internet forums and spread propaganda.

No post history because I haven't been able to bring myself to actually register and contribute to endless threads full of bickering by utter morons. I just want to see a bit of Cardiff City news.

Straight into bickering moron mode, bit strange considering your supposed reasons for abstaining. Another JB incarnation ,come on mods

Don't know who JB is mate. Make of the Echo story what you will but it is definitely genuine.

JB - Push the button mods, book him into whitchurch while you''re at it.

I don't consider myself a sceptical person and try to consider all oppinions and I make my own mind up always on the facts.
If this is a PR stunt what does Tan gain from it?
1. Showing the world or whoever wants to listen that he has a good heart?
2. Showing theworld or whoever wants to listen that he is prepared to take time out to show Cardiff City kids thaT he's impressed with their choice of team?
3. Just getting tabloid inches to boost his frofile and his empire empire?
4. He just can not stay out of the limelight when an opportunity is there?

If any of the above are true......So what? I don't see anything terrible with any of those things.

If this is not a PR stunt?
A lucky family in the right place at the right time were treated to our chairmans hospitality.

If the above is true......So what?....he's a nice guy.

Am I missing something because whether this is a PR stunt or not.....I can't se why people would be upset by this.

If it is a PR stunt then he is using money and influence to manipulate reality in order to legitamise a destruction of our identity. It would be a further abuse of power and quite frankly further insult to our intelligence and dignity as Cardiff Fans. Do some of you have ANY limits to what you'll accept in exchange for a few seasons on match of day? Some of the sychofantic behaviour towards the super rich on here is bewildering. It's like the olden days welsh peasant stock would go hungry for the royal family to eat roast hog off their estate. Absolutely bizare.

As I said, I don't consider myself a sceptical and certainly didn't read into it anything as much as you have done. The rebrand didn't even enter my head on this one but then why would it when it was about a couple of people getting treated to a holiday upgrade?
I don't consider myself naive either but i'm definately not gonna jump on the rebrand bandwagon either everytime I read something about tan in the paper because i'm sure people are going to put their own spin on it anyhow.

Please let the football begin so we can talk more about matters on the pitch rather than off it.

JB - Push the button mods, book him into whitchurch while you''re at it.

So apparently this is me as well. Brilliant. The paranoia from some on this board is bewildering. If I was you I'd stay well clear of the marijuana mate because you're already paranoid enough.

This is my only account. If you wish to discuss something with me then send me a message to this account.

I'm a lurker on here and just thought I'd say this is definately NOT an arranged PR stunt (as much as some people seem to want to believe that). The family are friends and it happened the way the Echo reported it.

Another ITK lurker with no post history

Do you honestly think the husband would tell you if it was a publicity stunt? I wouldn't even tell my wife incase she blew it.

I've just seen The photo of VT with the kids in red shirts such abig give away, Infact it's such a bizare act of PR, I'd put it on a par with some of the PR stunts Saddam Hussain Et Al used to pull. And again it's not Tan i'm disapointed with as we all know his ilk. Another piece of my blue heart punctures with the naivity of my fellow city fans. We're becomming a bigger joke as each year goes by.

No, you're right mate. I actually work secretly for Tan to infiltrate internet forums and spread propaganda.

No post history because I haven't been able to bring myself to actually register and contribute to endless threads full of bickering by utter morons. I just want to see a bit of Cardiff City news.

Straight into bickering moron mode, bit strange considering your supposed reasons for abstaining. Another JB incarnation ,come on mods

Don't know who JB is mate. Make of the Echo story what you will but it is definitely genuine.

JB - Push the button mods, book him into whitchurch while you''re at it.

I was a bit slow there. I thought you were suggesting I was a particular poster.

I think reading the above conspiracy theory you are coming out with, you might be posting from Whitchurch already.

People are just going to hate on Tan for anything he does regardless if it was meant as good intentions

I don't consider myself a sceptical person and try to consider all oppinions and I make my own mind up always on the facts.
If this is a PR stunt what does Tan gain from it?
1. Showing the world or whoever wants to listen that he has a good heart?
2. Showing theworld or whoever wants to listen that he is prepared to take time out to show Cardiff City kids thaT he's impressed with their choice of team?
3. Just getting tabloid inches to boost his frofile and his empire empire?
4. He just can not stay out of the limelight when an opportunity is there?

If any of the above are true......So what? I don't see anything terrible with any of those things.

If this is not a PR stunt?
A lucky family in the right place at the right time were treated to our chairmans hospitality.

If the above is true......So what?....he's a nice guy.

Am I missing something because whether this is a PR stunt or not.....I can't se why people would be upset by this.

If it is a PR stunt then he is using money and influence to manipulate reality in order to legitamise a destruction of our identity. It would be a further abuse of power and quite frankly further insult to our intelligence and dignity as Cardiff Fans. Do some of you have ANY limits to what you'll accept in exchange for a few seasons on match of day? Some of the sychofantic behaviour towards the super rich on here is bewildering. It's like the olden days welsh peasant stock would go hungry for the royal family to eat roast hog off their estate. Absolutely bizare.

As I said, I don't consider myself a sceptical and certainly didn't read into it anything as much as you have done. The rebrand didn't even enter my head on this one but then why would it when it was about a couple of people getting treated to a holiday upgrade?
I don't consider myself naive either but i'm definately not gonna jump on the rebrand bandwagon either everytime I read something about tan in the paper because i'm sure people are going to put their own spin on it anyhow.

Please let the football begin so we can talk more about matters on the pitch rather than off it.

As I said, I don't consider myself a sceptical and certainly didn't read into it anything as much as you have done. The rebrand didn't even enter my head on this one but then why would it when it was about a couple of people getting treated to a holiday upgrade?

Because it ended up in the paper with Tan posing with two kids in red like father christmas. Anyway Each to their own, i respect your view . But don't believe everything you read in the papers.

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

I don't consider myself a sceptical person and try to consider all oppinions and I make my own mind up always on the facts.
If this is a PR stunt what does Tan gain from it?
1. Showing the world or whoever wants to listen that he has a good heart?
2. Showing theworld or whoever wants to listen that he is prepared to take time out to show Cardiff City kids thaT he's impressed with their choice of team?
3. Just getting tabloid inches to boost his frofile and his empire empire?
4. He just can not stay out of the limelight when an opportunity is there?

If any of the above are true......So what? I don't see anything terrible with any of those things.

If this is not a PR stunt?
A lucky family in the right place at the right time were treated to our chairmans hospitality.

If the above is true......So what?....he's a nice guy.

Am I missing something because whether this is a PR stunt or not.....I can't se why people would be upset by this.

If it is a PR stunt then he is using money and influence to manipulate reality in order to legitamise a destruction of our identity. It would be a further abuse of power and quite frankly further insult to our intelligence and dignity as Cardiff Fans. Do some of you have ANY limits to what you'll accept in exchange for a few seasons on match of day? Some of the sychofantic behaviour towards the super rich on here is bewildering. It's like the olden days welsh peasant stock would go hungry for the royal family to eat roast hog off their estate. Absolutely bizare.

As I said, I don't consider myself a sceptical and certainly didn't read into it anything as much as you have done. The rebrand didn't even enter my head on this one but then why would it when it was about a couple of people getting treated to a holiday upgrade?
I don't consider myself naive either but i'm definately not gonna jump on the rebrand bandwagon either everytime I read something about tan in the paper because i'm sure people are going to put their own spin on it anyhow.

Please let the football begin so we can talk more about matters on the pitch rather than off it.

As I said, I don't consider myself a sceptical and certainly didn't read into it anything as much as you have done. The rebrand didn't even enter my head on this one but then why would it when it was about a couple of people getting treated to a holiday upgrade?

Because it ended up in the paper with Tan posing with two kids in red like father christmas. Anyway Each to their own, i respect your view . But don't believe everything you read in the papers.

I don't believe everything i read but i don't regard everything as i lie either.
I like to think for the time being that this was genuine and he would have done the same for a family in Blue. Lucky for him this time it was Red which feeds Tan's red publicity machine and the family took a photo and told their story.
My views on the rebrand are kept very close to my chest as i believe that enough antagonising has been dished out either way without ME joining in. Sometimes it's better to keep quiet and protest/go along with in your own independent way.

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Because maybe the family sent the pic to the echo and thought it was a nice story to share? They also facebooked it so it might have been picked up from there.

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Maybe it was the family that went to the papers about it and not Tan

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Maybe it was the family that went to the papers about it and not Tan

Maybe, but why would you go to the papers? I speak for my mates here, none of them said they'd go to the paers with this story. Would you go to the papers? I can't see why a family man from a middle class suburb would rush home and call the Echo. Smells a bit to me. The photo of VT with two lads in red was really the clincher

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Maybe it was the family that went to the papers about it and not Tan

There's me saying i'm not sceptical and i reply to this lol.
I actually heard and don't know if it's true that many people, especially celebities give donations like this with a long term plan for it to come out (Leak) at a later date. I'm sure if i really didn't want anyone to know i donatede to charity then i could easily do that.

There are always two sides and i'm sure if i was a Schumaker fan i would believe his story but if i detested the guy I would say it was a planeed leak.
I'm actually impaertial but see it a a nice gesture wether it was planned or not.

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Because maybe the family sent the pic to the echo and thought it was a nice story to share? They also facebooked it so it might have been picked up from there.

We need to contact the Echo for confirmation. I know loads of people with nice stories to share and the Echo would probably print them on slow newsday, but the peopel involved couldn't be bothered going to the Echo, it makes no sesne at all to me. Be honest who on here would phone the Echo if this happened?

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Because maybe the family sent the pic to the echo and thought it was a nice story to share? They also facebooked it so it might have been picked up from there.

We need to contact the Echo for confirmation. I know loads of people with nice stories to share and the Echo would probably print them on slow newsday, but the peopel involved couldn't be bothered going to the Echo, it makes no sesne at all to me. Be honest who on here would phone the Echo if this happened?

We need to contact the Echo? I think that is a bit strong.
The fact is, even if they themselves didnt't contact the echo then someone else could have who thought.....and it seems rightly so now that we have all this aftermath that there is a story in this.

I think it's best we leave this story behind and get back to football matters.
C'mon you mighty Bluebirds.

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Maybe it was the family that went to the papers about it and not Tan

There's me saying i'm not sceptical and i reply to this lol.
I actually heard and don't know if it's true that many people, especially celebities give donations like this with a long term plan for it to come out (Leak) at a later date. I'm sure if i really didn't want anyone to know i donatede to charity then i could easily do that.

There are always two sides and i'm sure if i was a Schumaker fan i would believe his story but if i detested the guy I would say it was a planeed leak.
I'm actually impaertial but see it a a nice gesture wether it was planned or not.

But Schuimacher gave money without wanting anything back, perhaps a bit of glory. Tan has alot to gain from this story, you wouldn't think it but some Cardiff fans are obviously swayed by this sort of carry-on. Plenty of peope do good work but the moment Tan upgrades afamily on holiday, they're all in the papers posing in red shirts. what whiff.

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Because maybe the family sent the pic to the echo and thought it was a nice story to share? They also facebooked it so it might have been picked up from there.

We need to contact the Echo for confirmation. I know loads of people with nice stories to share and the Echo would probably print them on slow newsday, but the peopel involved couldn't be bothered going to the Echo, it makes no sesne at all to me. Be honest who on here would phone the Echo if this happened?

We need to contact the Echo? I think that is a bit strong.
The fact is, even if they themselves didnt't contact the echo then someone else could have who thought.....and it seems rightly so now that we have all this aftermath that there is a story in this.

I think it's best we leave this story behind and get back to football matters.
C'mon you mighty Bluebirds.

Why is it a bit strong to contact the Echo for their version?

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Because maybe the family sent the pic to the echo and thought it was a nice story to share? They also facebooked it so it might have been picked up from there.

We need to contact the Echo for confirmation. I know loads of people with nice stories to share and the Echo would probably print them on slow newsday, but the peopel involved couldn't be bothered going to the Echo, it makes no sesne at all to me. Be honest who on here would phone the Echo if this happened?

We need to contact the Echo? I think that is a bit strong.
The fact is, even if they themselves didnt't contact the echo then someone else could have who thought.....and it seems rightly so now that we have all this aftermath that there is a story in this.

I think it's best we leave this story behind and get back to football matters.
C'mon you mighty Bluebirds.

Why is it a bit strong to contact the Echo for their version?

The fact that your desperate enough to want to know that Tan set this all up. Just leave it be its a really nice gesture just see it as that.

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Because maybe the family sent the pic to the echo and thought it was a nice story to share? They also facebooked it so it might have been picked up from there.

We need to contact the Echo for confirmation. I know loads of people with nice stories to share and the Echo would probably print them on slow newsday, but the peopel involved couldn't be bothered going to the Echo, it makes no sesne at all to me. Be honest who on here would phone the Echo if this happened?

We need to contact the Echo? I think that is a bit strong.
The fact is, even if they themselves didnt't contact the echo then someone else could have who thought.....and it seems rightly so now that we have all this aftermath that there is a story in this.

I think it's best we leave this story behind and get back to football matters.
C'mon you mighty Bluebirds.

Why is it a bit strong to contact the Echo for their version?

The fact that your desperate enough to want to know that Tan set this all up. Just leave it be its a really nice gesture just see it as that.

Ok let me rephrase, It would be a bit strong for me personally to go that far.
You go ahead by all means and let us know what the echo say and then we can have another debate about wether or not the echo people lied to you or that you are lying in what you feed back to us.
It can run and run and run.

Ok let me rephrase, It would be a bit strong for me personally to go that far.
You go ahead by all means and let us know what the echo say and then we can have another debate about wether or not the echo people lied to you or that you are lying in what you feed back to us.
It can run and run and run.

Yup agree people will continue to twist anything can to have a go at Tan

if the story is genuine, it is a nice gesture, no doubt... but why does it make the papers? why get photos done and publish them?


remember the Tsunami in South-East Asia? do you know who gave the largest single amount of money (80 million Euros) for the Tsunami Aid?

You dont? Well cos it wasnt published at the time, but it leaked out a year after...

it was Michael Schumacher, and he didnt want it to be leaked and published. But when asked about it in an interview he said: "I did this for charity, to actually help people, not to appear in the media as the good guy..."


I know this for a fact, cos my cousin used to work as the assistant to Schumacher's manager at the time.

Because maybe the family sent the pic to the echo and thought it was a nice story to share? They also facebooked it so it might have been picked up from there.

We need to contact the Echo for confirmation. I know loads of people with nice stories to share and the Echo would probably print them on slow newsday, but the peopel involved couldn't be bothered going to the Echo, it makes no sesne at all to me. Be honest who on here would phone the Echo if this happened?

We need to contact the Echo? I think that is a bit strong.
The fact is, even if they themselves didnt't contact the echo then someone else could have who thought.....and it seems rightly so now that we have all this aftermath that there is a story in this.

I think it's best we leave this story behind and get back to football matters.
C'mon you mighty Bluebirds.

Why is it a bit strong to contact the Echo for their version?

The fact that your desperate enough to want to know that Tan set this all up. Just leave it be its a really nice gesture just see it as that.

If it's a PR stunt, it's not a really nice gesture is it

Ok let me rephrase, It would be a bit strong for me personally to go that far.
You go ahead by all means and let us know what the echo say and then we can have another debate about wether or not the echo people lied to you or that you are lying in what you feed back to us.
It can run and run and run.

Yup agree people will continue to twist anything can to have a go at Tan

Agreed, any story can be twisted and the facts manipulated to suit.
A fair debate though....with the conclusion of......we are all none the wiser haha.

Ok let me rephrase, It would be a bit strong for me personally to go that far.
You go ahead by all means and let us know what the echo say and then we can have another debate about wether or not the echo people lied to you or that you are lying in what you feed back to us.
It can run and run and run.

Yup agree people will continue to twist anything can to have a go at Tan

What have i twisted? I'm checking the validity of a claim made by a group of people. Apparently you can't even question billionaires thesedays. know your place and all that.

If it's a PR stunt, it's not a really nice gesture is it

See this is the point though you so want it to be a PR stunt your desperate to prove it wrong. Who cares?! its just nice to hear about stuff like this without always thinking bad of it.

Ok let me rephrase, It would be a bit strong for me personally to go that far.
You go ahead by all means and let us know what the echo say and then we can have another debate about wether or not the echo people lied to you or that you are lying in what you feed back to us.
It can run and run and run.

Yup agree people will continue to twist anything can to have a go at Tan

What have i twisted? I'm checking the validity of a claim made by a group of people. Apparently you can't even question billionaires thesedays. know your place and all that.

You want to check the validity simply because you want it to be a PR stunt. I never said you can't question billionaires but its just a good will gesture nothing more. As with everything Tan does lots of people just see the negatives because they dislike the man over the rebrand

If it's a PR stunt, it's not a really nice gesture is it

See this is the point though you so want it to be a PR stunt your desperate to prove it wrong. Who cares?! its just nice to hear about stuff like this without always thinking bad of it.

I'd always ask questions it's common sense, i think you're comming from the peculiar angle here. you want people to accept a media story on face valuesimply because it's nice

If it's a PR stunt, it's not a really nice gesture is it

See this is the point though you so want it to be a PR stunt your desperate to prove it wrong. Who cares?! its just nice to hear about stuff like this without always thinking bad of it.

I'd always ask questions it's common sense, i think you're comming from the peculiar angle here. you want people to accept a media story on face valuesimply because it's nice

So do you question every story that the Echo publishes to make sure its valid?

And why not? I would rather see it as a good will gesture than constantly doubting everyone who do nice things intentions and just leave it as that. Why is it so important that we find out whether it was Tan who set it up or not?

If it's a PR stunt, it's not a really nice gesture is it

See this is the point though you so want it to be a PR stunt your desperate to prove it wrong. Who cares?! its just nice to hear about stuff like this without always thinking bad of it.

I'd always ask questions it's common sense, i think you're comming from the peculiar angle here. you want people to accept a media story on face valuesimply because it's nice

So do you question every story that the Echo publishes to make sure its valid?

And why not? I would rather see it as a good will gesture than constantly doubting everyone who do nice things intentions and just leave it as that. Why is it so important that we find out whether it was Tan who set it up or not?

In light of the Leverson enquiry, I apply critical thinking to every media story i haven't whitnessed first hand. Why is that so odd? Personally i find your outlook bonkers, *believe a story because it's nice* f**k me, Do you still believe in father Christmas?

Probably would have got the kids shot if they were wearing blue

:lol:

When you have answered those perinent questions, only then can you attest to having engaged in a sensible piece of critical thinking. Until then you're not doing yourself justice Allan.

Well you asked questions but you don't know answer to your own questions, as its Just speculation on your part and others who have same agenda of slighting tan at earliest opportunity! Equating tan to a tramp is a totally ridiculous equation! You have your agenda regarding tan so debate on subject is closed.
And out of fairness I retract what i called you! Even though I see others have an opinion on you not disimular to myself!

Calling this as a chance to gain some positives news for himself?

He is away and that family was away, I doubt he would of expected to even get any media attention by this.