' Cardiff City Owners '

Stopped reading after I got to the figures quoted for the debt when Sam left and when Ridsdale left. They are shamefully inaccurate.

Why destroy the credibility of an article by putting in figures which are rubbish ? Especially when a quick check for anyone who has the accounts can easily prove otherwise ?

What is the point in this ? everyone knows that Sam and Ridsdale both left the club on the edge of oblivion. Is this article trying to shift all the blame off them and onto Tan.

Total debt as at May 2007 £37m (1st accounts after sam left) - NOT £20m
May 2008 £43m
May 2009 £69m (this was the point where the Malays got involved)
May 2010 £63m

Don't forget that at May 2007 we had no stadium, and the council WOULD NOT release the land for it whilst Sam was in charge, at least after Ridsdale left we had a £60m stadium, however we had sold virtually any player worth a decent fee.

Only differences between the 3 are that Tan has at least bought a significant number of shares and can cover the money he's lending the club. Still not clear who was behind Langston and Ridsdale, well he didn'yt put in a penny, had a load of free shares and £1m+ in fees.

In terms of the club's identity, Ridsdale knew not to touch this, Sam tried and got scared off, and Tan, well he stupidly changed it and is now a leper because of it.

Without checking I wasn't far away then estimated at around £50-60m upon their arrival

So even if the total debt owed to tan is the £150m banded about after the new accounts come out then he has only increased debt by £80m since arriving in 2009

Not the £150m people are quoting etc

I don't even believe it's that high seeing as work on training ground which was part of investment hasn't even happened yet plus we have a squad far more valuable than it was in 2009

Can someone post the accounts for 2013-2014 once they are out please?

11th January 2014

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25696896

Dalman saying they are in the process of changing debt to equity and the club will eventually become debt free.

6 months down the line, debt to equity will only be for 50 million and the club will remain in 100million of debt, approximately.

Total debt as at May 2007 £37m (1st accounts after sam left) - NOT £20m

Where have I said it was £20million at any point in time?

Am I right in thinking that the figure you are giving is including the 9million "debt" of Naming rights of the CCS, which were never taken up anyway?

Which would take it to £28million, which is about where most people have suggested it to be the case on here... (24-28 mil).

Alex/Tim, the debt I believe Langston left the club was between £24mill to £28mill plus naming rights, I cant see where you or I said £20 mill?

THIS IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS/BUT TANS FOLLOWERS ARE IGNORING IT



Vincent Tan 'has put £150m in Cardiff City,' Mehmet Dalman

11th January 2014

Cardiff City FC owner Vincent Tan has put up to £150m of his own money towards clearing the club's debts, says Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman.

He spoke after the club's latest accounting figures showed its debt had risen to £118m, with just over half of that, £66m owed to the club's billionaire owner.

In an interview at Cardiff City Stadium, Mr Dalman told Radio Wales' Rob Philips that fans should not be worried by the scale of the sums involved as they can be explained.

Cardiff City report £30m losses

Total debt as at May 2007 £37m (1st accounts after sam left) - NOT £20m

Where have I said it was £20million at any point in time?

Am I right in thinking that the figure you are giving is including the 9million "debt" of Naming rights of the CCS, which were never taken up anyway?

Which would take it to £28million, which is about where most people have suggested it to be the case on here... (24-28 mil).

Alex/Tim, the debt I believe Langston left the club was between £24mill to £28mill plus naming rights, I cant see where you or I said £20 mill?

He hasn't quoted Langston he said debt total of £37m chuckles put total debt when ridsdale left of £28m that's what he was saying about incorrect figures when ridsdale left accounts showed £69m debt not £28m guys no mention of Langston just toal debt

Total debt as at May 2007 £37m (1st accounts after sam left) - NOT £20m

Where have I said it was £20million at any point in time?

Am I right in thinking that the figure you are giving is including the 9million "debt" of Naming rights of the CCS, which were never taken up anyway?

Which would take it to £28million, which is about where most people have suggested it to be the case on here... (24-28 mil).

Alex/Tim, the debt I believe Langston left the club was between £24mill to £28mill plus naming rights, I cant see where you or I said £20 mill?

He hasn't quoted Langston he said debt total of £37m chuckles put total debt when ridsdale left of £28m that's what he was saying about incorrect figures when ridsdale left accounts showed £69m debt not £28m guys no mention of Langston just toal debt

Like I said Alex OP was excellent just had figures a mile off

When Malaysians joined we were £69m in debt not £28m

Total debt as at May 2007 £37m (1st accounts after sam left) - NOT £20m

So the debt has only doubled with tan ,I wonder how much it will fall next year with player sales and less wages and parachute payment money also the projected profit of this season as the chairman has indicated

Where have I said it was £20million at any point in time?

Am I right in thinking that the figure you are giving is including the 9million "debt" of Naming rights of the CCS, which were never taken up anyway?

Which would take it to £28million, which is about where most people have suggested it to be the case on here... (24-28 mil).

Alex/Tim, the debt I believe Langston left the club was between £24mill to £28mill plus naming rights, I cant see where you or I said £20 mill?

He hasn't quoted Langston he said debt total of £37m chuckles put total debt when ridsdale left of £28m that's what he was saying about incorrect figures when ridsdale left accounts showed £69m debt not £28m guys no mention of Langston just toal debt

Total debt as at May 2007 £37m (1st accounts after sam left) - NOT £20m

So the debt has only doubled with tan ,I wonder how much it will fall next year with player sales and less wages and parachute payment money also the projected profit of this season as the chairman has indicated

Where have I said it was £20million at any point in time?

Am I right in thinking that the figure you are giving is including the 9million "debt" of Naming rights of the CCS, which were never taken up anyway?

Which would take it to £28million, which is about where most people have suggested it to be the case on here... (24-28 mil).

Alex/Tim, the debt I believe Langston left the club was between £24mill to £28mill plus naming rights, I cant see where you or I said £20 mill?

He hasn't quoted Langston he said debt total of £37m chuckles put total debt when ridsdale left of £28m that's what he was saying about incorrect figures when ridsdale left accounts showed £69m debt not £28m guys no mention of Langston just toal debt

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Why is everyone ignoring what really matters?

THE REST IS HISTORY/THIS IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS NOW SURELY?

THIS IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS/BUT TANS FOLLOWERS ARE IGNORING IT



Vincent Tan 'has put £150m in Cardiff City,' Mehmet Dalman

11th January 2014

Cardiff City FC owner Vincent Tan has put up to £150m of his own money towards clearing the club's debts, says Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman.

He spoke after the club's latest accounting figures showed its debt had risen to £118m, with just over half of that, £66m owed to the club's billionaire owner.

In an interview at Cardiff City Stadium, Mr Dalman told Radio Wales' Rob Philips that fans should not be worried by the scale of the sums involved as they can be explained.

Cardiff City report £30m losses

Sam (you could at least list the lies he told as you did in great detail about Tan, just to even it out)

If he hadnt fucked us over then Tan would have been nowhere to be seen.

Craig, during the start of the Hammam era, I was a teenager who didn't care too much for off the field matters, so therefore do not know as much as I do regarding Tan, to be honest.

I am sure no one on earth knows as much as you do about anything Alex.

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

Exactly, we don't know what our actual debt stands at until next season as it doesn't take into account the TV revenue, extra sponsorship, parachute payments, transfers etc.

And as you are correct our debt has actually only doubled under Tan so he's just as bad as the previous owners except now all the debt is owed to one person.

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

Exactly, we don't know what our actual debt stands at until next season as it doesn't take into account the TV revenue, extra sponsorship, parachute payments, transfers etc.

And as you are correct our debt has actually only doubled under Tan so he's just as bad as the previous owners except now all the debt is owed to one person.

Vincent Tan 'has put £150m in Cardiff City,' Mehmet Dalman

11th January 2014

Cardiff City FC owner Vincent Tan has put up to £150m of his own money towards clearing the club's debts, says Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman.

He spoke after the club's latest accounting figures showed its debt had risen to £118m, with just over half of that, £66m owed to the club's billionaire owner.

In an interview at Cardiff City Stadium, Mr Dalman told Radio Wales' Rob Philips that fans should not be worried by the scale of the sums involved as they can be explained.

Cardiff City report £30m losses

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I agree and lets face it one thing VT has done is settle with SH at a cost reported at £22m which was a massive result for SH / Langston and now forms part of the monies owed to VT. At least give the guy some credit for that.

I'm not surprised at all that the debt has rocketed despite our promotion to the PL because no one can seriously doubt that the £35m spent by MM last summer was funded by anyone other than VT, and likewise no one should doubt that VT has been funding the increased wagebill because the club didn't receive it's £62m PL revenue last summer and in reality it's probably only just received the final payment.

If truth be told, the debt wouldnt be an issue if Tan hadnt rebranded us.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I agree and lets face it one thing VT has done is settle with SH at a cost reported at £22m which was a massive result for SH / Langston and now forms part of the monies owed to VT. At least give the guy some credit for that.

I'm not surprised at all that the debt has rocketed despite our promotion to the PL because no one can seriously doubt that the £35m spent by MM last summer was funded by anyone other than VT, and likewise no one should doubt that VT has been funding the increased wagebill because the club didn't receive it's £62m PL revenue last summer and in reality it's probably only just received the final payment.

But Gary, the point is Tan is letting the debt get out of control and no point blaming Malky/Ole/Dalman etc etc, Tan is the one really in control, True?

From the Echo postbag pages

I’m not giving up on Mr Tan just yet
I write in response to “Andrews needs to give Tan a chance” by Clayton Jones (Feedback, May 16).
Mr Jones is absolutely correct about the overreaction by Mr Andrews and some Bluebirds supporters, especially regarding the “debt to equity” issue.
What no-one has taken into consideration are the Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations. It might astonish those who have not considered FFP, but the fact is we as a club cannot “lose” more than £3m a season (or £9m over a monitored period of three seasons in the Football League, £105m in the Premier League). However, losses can go up to £8m a season (or £24m over three seasons) if “an owner injects equity into the club”, which is exactly what VT did when he converted £50m of his loans.
The past three-year monitoring period (2011/13) we have “lost” around £50m (when exempt items are deducted such as promotion bonuses). As Vincent Tan has covered most of those losses we owe him £65m in loans (published accounts May 2013). VT’s “current” loans may be as high as £150m but the FFP works on published accounts, i.e. those published in January covering the period up to May 2013. In those accounts Vincent Tan is apparently owed £65m so he has converted 77% of his loans to equity, not 33% as claimed by Andrews and others.
If supporters are to continue to beat VT with the debt-to-equity stick they should start factoring in the FFP variable.
It is my opinion that VT could convert all his loans now if he wanted, but is being advised not to because equity exchange each season keeps the PL/FL happy with regard to FFP and gives the club maximum flexibility to stay within its guidelines and avoids sanctions such as fines or points deductions.
Of course this doesn’t change us back to our true colours of blue, but as a “reluctant red” on the back of debt to equity, I’m not giving up on VT just yet.
Anthony Williams
Newport

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis your not a dull man

Why on earth would anoyone with a brain convert £120m of debt into equity in a business currently worth not even a 5th of that it would be madness

Whilst he promised it he's not stupid club share value is low if he becomes full owner and converts his debt his share value won't be worth a penny and he will never recoup his money going down was a big blow to the debt to equity swap he had already bought out most other shareholders and increased his total shre holding to around 90% I think was a figure banded on here a while ago and I remember someone mentioning isaacs was playing tough on his shres wanting far more than they were worth, if tan had bought him out he couldn't owe himself money the way it is at present he's still majority shareholder he's under no hurry to convert cos if he sells his majority share in club he's still owed the loans he's in a win win situation
Had we stayed up the club worth would be far greater and he could switch to equity and there wouldn't be a problem switching to equity fully in the championship would be like wiping out £80m of his cash cos he'd never get it back

Going down was bad for this swap I'm confident had we stayed up he'd have converted this summer and possibly sold up

If truth be told, the debt wouldnt be an issue if Tan hadnt rebranded us.

Exactly I remember many on here slating Tan for not giving Malky a big enough budget the first season.

My main issue is the debt was the main reason a lot of us accepted the rebrand so it will obviously play a big issue. Lots of numbers are being chucked about but we won't fully know the debt until next years accounts are out.

Total debt as at May 2007 £37m (1st accounts after sam left) - NOT £20m

Where have I said it was £20million at any point in time?

Am I right in thinking that the figure you are giving is including the 9million "debt" of Naming rights of the CCS, which were never taken up anyway?

Which would take it to £28million, which is about where most people have suggested it to be the case on here... (24-28 mil).

Alex/Tim, the debt I believe Langston left the club was between £24mill to £28mill plus naming rights, I cant see where you or I said £20 mill?

I copied the figures from an old post I'd made where someone was claiming the debt was 20m, Chuckles is slightly closer with 24, but still miles off. The debt was 37m, its there in the accounts. Trade creditors 5m tax creditors 1m, others 4m, sam 24m plus 1m interest, other directors 2m. We can't just take the naming rights off the debt as they were there as part of the deal and would have played their part in the final settlement made to Sam, besides which they weren't renegotiated until AFTER Sam left. This debt figure was May 07, when Sam left the debt would actually have been higher as there had been a 5m share issue in Feb 07, so I've actually underestimated it by about 5m. 1m of this would have been used to pay HMRC debts which were 1.5m in May 06.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I agree and lets face it one thing VT has done is settle with SH at a cost reported at £22m which was a massive result for SH / Langston and now forms part of the monies owed to VT. At least give the guy some credit for that.

I'm not surprised at all that the debt has rocketed despite our promotion to the PL because no one can seriously doubt that the £35m spent by MM last summer was funded by anyone other than VT, and likewise no one should doubt that VT has been funding the increased wagebill because the club didn't receive it's £62m PL revenue last summer and in reality it's probably only just received the final payment.

But Gary, the point is Tan is letting the debt get out of control and no point blaming Malky/Ole/Dalman etc etc, Tan is the one really in control, True?

VT is in control no one can doubt that Annis but last summer he trusted MM with £35m and we now know that he made some pretty bad mistakes. That happens and it shouldn't just be down to VT because what would we all have been saying last summer if he hadn't support MM.

As regards the debt being out of control if SH or Ridsdale were still involved we would have gone bust a long time ago but to VT £100M is less than 10% of his personal wealth so, in my opinion, it's not the same. In respect of the club finances I would trust VT business history of making money.

The same doesn't apply to his re-brand which has been and continues to be a huge mistake. He needs to reverse that and quickly to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet and then concentrate and improving the finances.

Steve Davies
Wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."


SADLY SPOT ON Steve

Yes, and we just want our BLUE, CREST and IDENTITY back.

The red makes me so annoyed.

And has done since day one of the so called Rebrand (more like hostage taking).

I don't know why these CCFC supporters who keep justifying the RED, cannot see our beloved club is suffering big, big time.

I would be prepared to do a "POMPEY" if we could get the Blue back, the bluebird badge and unite the fan's again.

Sadly, I do not think the RED and/or Tan excusers care if we carry on in RED and all the shite that goes with it, which is very, very sad.

I,m glad I never had to serve in the trenches with some of you RED lot.

Sellout's in my opinion, especially the the ones who have been true Blue CCFC supporters for many a year, for not even trying to get our colour , badge, pride back.

Yea, yea I know I'm sorry if my pride offends you.

Blooobirds Forever !!!

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis your not a dull man

Why on earth would anoyone with a brain convert £120m of debt into equity in a business currently worth not even a 5th of that it would be madness

Whilst he promised it he's not stupid club share value is low if he becomes full owner and converts his debt his share value won't be worth a penny and he will never recoup his money going down was a big blow to the debt to equity swap he had already bought out most other shareholders and increased his total shre holding to around 90% I think was a figure banded on here a while ago and I remember someone mentioning isaacs was playing tough on his shres wanting far more than they were worth, if tan had bought him out he couldn't owe himself money the way it is at present he's still majority shareholder he's under no hurry to convert cos if he sells his majority share in club he's still owed the loans he's in a win win situation
Had we stayed up the club worth would be far greater and he could switch to equity and there wouldn't be a problem switching to equity fully in the championship would be like wiping out £80m of his cash cos he'd never get it back

Going down was bad for this swap I'm confident had we stayed up he'd have converted this summer and possibly sold up

Cheers about not being a dull man

On a serious note, I agree with some of your post,but then surely Tan should not have made the statement 2 years running regarding making our club debt free and on the second occasion saying it will " Only be a matter of days" ?

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

Annis, I think the only times I haven't worried about our clubs debts in the last 30-odd years has been the first few years of Rick Wright and Sam's first couple of years. I honestly thought Tan would sort them and for me a 'short term' rebrand (as that's all it will ever be) was a price worth paying to sort our debt problem once and for all.

His not turning debt into equity is definitely a concern and shouldn't be forgotten in the efforts to change the colours back to blue sooner rather than later.

THESE TWO MAIN POINTS ARE WHAT REALLY WORRY ME AND ARE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE YEAR 2014,YET TANS FOLLOWERS TOTALLY IGNORE THESE FACTS AND THEY ARE WHAT REALLY MATTER, AS THEY ARE THE PRESENT & THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB.

Steve Davies wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."

Barry Chuckle wrote
Fast forward 11 months and the club have just been relegated from the Premier League after a season of turmoil off the field, where the media have ridiculed the club from every corner. The debt at Cardiff City now stands at approx. £150million & Tan has now changed his thoughts on debt to equity, saying he will only change £50million, despite saying less than 12 months earlier, he aimed to make it totally debt free.

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I think Chuckles meant £28mill Langston,plus £9mill Stadium rights, which never happened.

Tim, as to the debt being reduced,at the moment its still rising and thats from Tan & Dalman both stating it.
Also, Debt to Equity, a promise made,but so far never kept.

Be honest Tim, as I respect your views, Are you not concerned or worried by Tans actions and debts?

The debt may have been rising as Dalman spoke, but I expect that to be reversed as we sell players and dramatically reduce the wage bill over the next few months. I'd 'expect' a net income of £20-30m on transfers and the parachute money to more than cover the wage bill. We'd also not have received our final Premiership TV money when Dalman spoke.

THIS IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS/BUT TANS FOLLOWERS ARE IGNORING IT

Correct me if I'm wrong,but have you renewed your ST?
If yes then by default that makes you a Tan follower...


Yeah I'm just nit picking but it annoys me to see fans label one another with petty names..

Tan Follower... Pro Red....
Pro Blue.... Blah blah blah....

We're All Cardiff Fans at the end of the day..
We just support the club in different ways.
Some accept some stuff some do not, Some feel doing a bit of fighting on the stands is acceptable , some do not.
Some leave 10 mins before the end, some leave 10 mins after the game.

All support the club though...


Hate the Man, Not the Fan...

Problem is Annis, the starting point is being set by Chuckles there and it's absolute bullshit, so the rest of the article completely loses it's credibility.

With transfer fees and parachute payments the debt should be reduced in the next 12 months, IF he converts another £50m then the debt won't be far off what it was when Ridsdale left with far more in terms of assets and another £40m to come in from parachute payments.

That's not to say we shouldn't put pressure on him to get the debt to equity done IN FULL asap, at least if he does the £50m it would be a start - he's still got to show he can keep his word over that yet...and also to give us our kit and badge back asap as well.

This is what we should concentrate on, not trying to exaggerate the figures as Barry has here.

I agree and lets face it one thing VT has done is settle with SH at a cost reported at £22m which was a massive result for SH / Langston and now forms part of the monies owed to VT. At least give the guy some credit for that.

I'm not surprised at all that the debt has rocketed despite our promotion to the PL because no one can seriously doubt that the £35m spent by MM last summer was funded by anyone other than VT, and likewise no one should doubt that VT has been funding the increased wagebill because the club didn't receive it's £62m PL revenue last summer and in reality it's probably only just received the final payment.

But Gary, the point is Tan is letting the debt get out of control and no point blaming Malky/Ole/Dalman etc etc, Tan is the one really in control, True?

VT is in control no one can doubt that Annis but last summer he trusted MM with £35m and we now know that he made some pretty bad mistakes. That happens and it shouldn't just be down to VT because what would we all have been saying last summer if he hadn't support MM.

As regards the debt being out of control if SH or Ridsdale were still involved we would have gone bust a long time ago but to VT £100M is less than 10% of his personal wealth so, in my opinion, it's not the same. In respect of the club finances I would trust VT business history of making money.

The same doesn't apply to his re-brand which has been and continues to be a huge mistake. He needs to reverse that and quickly to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet and then concentrate and improving the finances.

Tan is in full understanding regarding the finances unlike some commenting on his inability. Pity the OP. wasnt as understanding of the facts. It really should be taken off as I am sure it would be if the inaccuracies were loaded in Tans favour.

Steve Davies
Wrote
"Tan saved the club from liquidation that day but eventually killed the club off as most people knew it."


SADLY SPOT ON Steve

Yes, and we just want our BLUE, CREST and IDENTITY back.

The red makes me so annoyed.

And has done since day one of the so called Rebrand (more like hostage taking).

I don't know why these CCFC supporters who keep justifying the RED, cannot see our beloved club is suffering big, big time.

I would be prepared to do a "POMPEY" if we could get the Blue back, the bluebird badge and unite the fan's again.

Sadly, I do not think the RED and/or Tan excusers care if we carry on in RED and all the shite that goes with it, which is very, very sad.

I,m glad I never had to serve in the trenches with some of you RED lot.

Sellout's in my opinion, especially the the ones who have been true Blue CCFC supporters for many a year, for not even trying to get our colour , badge, pride back.

Yea, yea I know I'm sorry if my pride offends you.

Blooobirds Forever !!!

Sadly I can not disagree with what you are saying, Ive only stayed going to the matches because I love Cardiff City dearly,I have thought of walking away,but I believe we need to keep the Blue flag flying,its been hard, but at least the fans are now BLUE, well 95% , but I understand why many like yourself have walked away