"I AM SORRY BUT I THINK ITS WRONG and TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER

Labour have left behind one huge mess founded on lies, lies, and more lies. How can any one person trust that party ever again is beyond me. From top to bottom the party is one huge mess and I would certainly believe the Sun before Brown or any of them.
Annis is correct on this on sludge.

Thankyou

the story is rubbish annis

read the reply by the last poster on here

the story is rubbish annis

read the reply by the last poster on here

Sludge, even if the figures are not 100% Correct, The Daily Mail backs it up, but forget the papers, Our Country is Full and We need to sort our own mess out, NO MORE HAND OUTS PLEASE.

Labour have left behind one huge mess founded on lies, lies, and more lies. How can any one person trust that party ever again is beyond me. From top to bottom the party is one huge mess and I would certainly believe the Sun before Brown or any of them.
Annis is correct on this on sludge.

Thankyou

sorry annis but you are wrong

the story is rubbish

read the replies

Sludge, lets just agree to disagree

I think its fair to say me and you will never agree about politics annis

I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong but that almost sounds like you defending capitalism Sludge?

I certainly will correct you , the clue is in the wording " right or wrong , thats the way it is "

I believe in the redistribution of wealth and a mixed economy

but I dont rule the world

the money markets and capitalism does

and thats why us lefty liberal puffy go gooders must try to argue for as much money as possible to go into those less fortunate

but the reality is , money rules and if this country needs cheap labour and readily trained labour david camerons stance of being tough on immigration will soon fall on deaf ears and he will be told by the captains of industry to " open the gates " again

all political rubbish by the tories to stop people voting ukip

I can understand your argument about highly trained labour (although I still think it is wrong to pinch these people away from their countries of orgin if that country is poor or developing) but I don't subscribe to the theory that 'cheap' imported labour helps redistribute wealth.

I strongly believe that cheap imported labour has led to the creation of a state dependent class. The Tories are right on one thing jobs which pay under £15,000 P/A (and that figure is probably too low) are not worth taking up because the loss of benefit amounts to a 80% tax rate.

The reason why there are so many jobs which pay so little is the importation of cheap labour through immigration. The immigrants then fill the jobs that Brits won't (or financially can't) do. This then leaves millions of people dependent on benefits and they become stuck in poverty as a result.

If wages are to rise then the unfair competition from immigrants has to be curtailed. My opinion is not based on racism, because often it is the settled Asian and Black communities suffer the most from the competition the new arrivals bring.

If poverty in this country is to be truely tackled then curtailing immigration has to be part of the solution.

:D

I think its fair to say me and you will never agree about politics annis

No because look what Labour has done to Our Country

But We love Our Club

I didnt say cheap imported labour redistributes wealth

those that control the purse strings do that

tax credits were a great idea from gordon brown to help the lower paid but like all benefits and welfare it got out of control

cheap imported labour has been part fo this countrys economy ever since we evolved

thats the way the big economies of the world work

the key is managed immigration

because wether people like it or not , even if we lessen immigration and cut back as much as we can on the scroungers from this country ..there will always be locals who wont work

there should be sensible debate about immigration but not arguements built upon false information.its a shame that the sun is britains most popular paper(comic) 2 pages of usualy celebrity foolishness,500 words and then TITS that just says it all.

there should be sensible debate about immigration but not arguements built upon false information.its a shame that the sun is britains most popular paper(comic) 2 pages of usualy celebrity foolishness,500 words and then TITS that just says it all.

I agree it mostly full of shit, but we are still over crowded. Daily mail is usually correct.

there should be sensible debate about immigration but not arguements built upon false information.its a shame that the sun is britains most popular paper(comic) 2 pages of usualy celebrity foolishness,500 words and then TITS that just says it all.

well the sun saying all the immigrants get free passports is .......lies

if you read the daily mail you should temper it with the independant and vice versa whichever your enclined towards in order to form informed opinion i think it necessary to see both sides.

if you read the daily mail you should temper it with the independant and vice versa whichever your enclined towards in order to form informed opinion i think it necessary to see both sides.

I will try that next week

I think it's called having a sense of perspective!

Now a concerted effort to redistribute wealth/investment away from the Tory southeast heartlands could help mitigate enormously!..........but it'll never happen

I didnt say cheap imported labour redistributes wealth

those that control the purse strings do that

tax credits were a great idea from gordon brown to help the lower paid but like all benefits and welfare it got out of control

cheap imported labour has been part fo this countrys economy ever since we evolved

thats the way the big economies of the world work

the key is managed immigration

because wether people like it or not , even if we lessen immigration and cut back as much as we can on the scroungers from this country ..there will always be locals who wont work

Sludge we sing from the same hymn sheet with regard to tax credits, they were a great idea but the taper/loss of benefit means that someone coming off benefits can end up paying what amounts to an 80-90% tax rate. Those who refuse to work for what amounts to next to nothing in those circumstances are not scroungers but more disenfranchised.

We have to put things into proportion and as much as immigration has been part and parcel of our evolution over centuries, it has never been at the levels it has been over the past 10 years, or indeed the 40 years before that.

I agree managed immigration is the answer but because of the excesses of the past few years there has to be a short dramatic curtailment whilst the country takes stock of what is needed in the future.

there should be sensible debate about immigration but not arguements built upon false information.its a shame that the sun is britains most popular paper(comic) 2 pages of usualy celebrity foolishness,500 words and then TITS that just says it all.

what is wrong with TITS

there should be sensible debate about immigration but not arguements built upon false information.its a shame that the sun is britains most popular paper(comic) 2 pages of usualy celebrity foolishness,500 words and then TITS that just says it all.

what is wrong with TITS

COULDNT AGREE MORE ANNIS, IT HAS TO STOP ,OR WE WILL BE IN ALL SORTS OF TROUBLE!!

Schools/Hospitals/Housing/Crime, Britain just hasnt got the resources any more.

crime is down annis and it was higher when the tories were in

car cime down

violent crime down

children a lot safer than they were 20 years ago , lowest rates of violence against kids in 25 years

we dont have any housing because the tories sold all the council houses

hospital building UP under labour

will be DOWN under your lot

sorry annis , thats the way it is


all this talk about labour spending all this money is rubbish , the vast majority of the debt is due to the recession which started a few years ago , leading to less income from tax due to unemployment
and from that less private investment

all around the world this has happened

Honestly Sludge, do you REALLY believe crime has actually dropped over the last 13 yrs or so? Really?

Britain has become a cesspit. Crime is not down, its just that your glorious Labour party tickled the facts and
figures. Its ludicrous to say your safer out on the streets today than you were a decade ago!! Car crime is down
but there's a reason for this... trackers, car alarms etc etc etc. Cars are no longer such an attractive target.
As for violent crime I really find it incredible you can say its gone down under Labour. You giggle a bit when
people quote The Sun for 'facts'...... Then you actually believe the information given out by the Labour loons...
You also mention on a post how Gordon Brown 'saved the world from meltdown' I actually thought you were taking
the piss. This is the man who sold off Britains Gold Reserves. This is also the man who stood alongside Tony Blair
and PROMISED the British people a referendum on Europe. He's a liar. Dont get me wrong, I'm not taken in by the
Tories either. But FFS mate. Crime gone down????

People are less likely to report minor crimes nowadays because the police response time is so slow, or there is no
response. Young kids are getting stabbed and shot every day, this wasnt happening ten years ago, so the Labour
party massaged the figures and discounted crimes where nobody was charged. Lowest rates of violence against
children for 25 yrs??? You believe that?? really???

WMD - REFERENDUM ON EUROPE. I'll leave it there really - Labour have lied lied lied lied. So how can anyone believe
any of their facts and figures??

I am no labour sympathiser but this is not simply black or white (no pun intended) the main reason that immigration numbers have risen so dramatically is the EU and the new countries joining. As part of the EU we simply could not stop the immigrants coming in (Polish and Bulgarians for example). I am not sure how this could be stopped in the past nor in the future. I dont think it will improve as I dont think it can

taffyapple you are saying that kids were not shot or stabbed ten years ago ?

lets make it 20

are you being serious ?

home office figures , acpo figures show violent crime is down and the rate of child murders is lower than it has been for 20 years

the british crime survey which is a survey about attitueds to crime shows that the dear or perception of crime ( we live in a hellhole etc ) is not borne out by the facts

we all know of some poor sod who has had a kicking or the tossers who robbed the granny down the road , but you have to deal with facts

sludge it has got worse over the last 20 years thats a certainty

sludge it has got worse over the last 20 years thats a certainty

100% True.

sludge it has got worse over the last 20 years thats a certainty

100% True.

its 100 percent untrue annis

the figures show that crime has fallen year on year

oh no , we are off again

sludge it has got worse over the last 20 years thats a certainty

100% True.

its 100 percent untrue annis

the figures show that crime has fallen year on year

oh no , we are off again

sludge you know what governments do with statistics the reality though...

sludge it has got worse over the last 20 years thats a certainty

100% True.

its 100 percent untrue annis

the figures show that crime has fallen year on year

oh no , we are off again

Not only has crime gone UP, but the percentage of 'foreign' criminals in our jails
Is far higher than the percentage of 'foreign' people in the country, which means
That we have opened the door for thousands of criminals as well as Dr Singh and
Nurse wallamattachani.

I'm trying to be nice sludge but FFS you're quoting Home Office figures from the same
Government that promised us a referendum on Europe.

Governments lie, the tories will do the same but with regard to crime in the UK you only
Have to look out the window. I can go out friday night and be a menace to innocent people
And suffer no more than an £80 on the spot fine and guess what - no charges - no 'crime'

thanks for being nice to me , but you are paranoid

the crime statistics from various sources are widely available over the internet and you can also order copies of them online or to download

if you dont believe anything any government ever tells you then thats fair enough and it pointless debating with you

if thats the case you can make anything up and peopel cant challenge you on it

no point really is there ?

thanks for being nice to me , but you are paranoid

the crime statistics from various sources are widely available over the internet and you can also order copies of them online or to download

if you dont believe anything any government ever tells you then thats fair enough and it pointless debating with you

if thats the case you can make anything up and peopel cant challenge you on it

no point really is there ?

I'm sure that all official Government statistics are collated by independent bodies such as the National Statistics Office in Newport. The figures are also scrutinised before they are released so should be extremely accurate.

However, the figures only reflect the data the Government holds and doesn’t account for unreported crimes. Many people feel it is pointless reporting crimes either because the Police are useless, or if it involves ethnic minorities the investigations will be hampered by political correctness.

So whilst you are correct to quote that the figures show a decline Sludge, we can't be 100% certain whether in real life citizens are finding the streets truly safer.

It really is up to the individual to assess if they feel safer today or not in case you do in others they don't.

thanks for being nice to me , but you are paranoid

the crime statistics from various sources are widely available over the internet and you can also order copies of them online or to download

if you dont believe anything any government ever tells you then thats fair enough and it pointless debating with you

if thats the case you can make anything up and peopel cant challenge you on it

no point really is there ?

I'm sure that all official Government statistics are collated by independent bodies such as the National Statistics Office in Newport. The figures are also scrutinised before they are released so should be extremely accurate.

thats correct

However, the figures only reflect the data the Government holds and doesn’t account for unreported crimes. Many people feel it is pointless reporting crimes either because the Police are useless, or if it involves ethnic minorities the investigations will be hampered by political correctness.

the national british crime survey accounts for unreported crime

no evidence that police dont investigate crimes carreid out by ethnic monorities because of political correctness

So whilst you are correct to quote that the figures show a decline Sludge, we can't be 100% certain whether in real life citizens are finding the streets truly safer.

finding the streets safer is an individual thing and not related to the actual chances of ebinga victim of crime , btitish crime survey suggests , without favour , that fear of crime is grater than risk of crime

so when someone says this country is " going to the dogs " or " there is far more trouble now than when ten years ago " its often just talk and fear and not backed up by fact

It really is up to the individual to assess if they feel safer today or not in case you do in others they don't.

I'm sure that all official Government statistics are collated by independent bodies such as the National Statistics Office in Newport. The figures are also scrutinised before they are released so should be extremely accurate.

thats correct

However, the figures only reflect the data the Government holds and doesn’t account for unreported crimes. Many people feel it is pointless reporting crimes either because the Police are useless, or if it involves ethnic minorities the investigations will be hampered by political correctness.

the national british crime survey accounts for unreported crime

no evidence that police dont investigate crimes carreid out by ethnic monorities because of political correctness

So whilst you are correct to quote that the figures show a decline Sludge, we can't be 100% certain whether in real life citizens are finding the streets truly safer.

finding the streets safer is an individual thing and not related to the actual chances of ebinga victim of crime , btitish crime survey suggests , without favour , that fear of crime is grater than risk of crime

so when someone says this country is " going to the dogs " or " there is far more trouble now than when ten years ago " its often just talk and fear and not backed up by fact

It really is up to the individual to assess if they feel safer today or not in case you do in others they don't.

TBH I really can't see how any official figures can include 'unreported crime' which as the title suggests is unreported so no-one can possibly know much of it there is or isn't. That said on the balance of probabilities there must be such a thing as 'unreported crime'

I'm not claiming for certain that the Police do investigate crimes by ethnic minorities any differently because of political correctness but I have heard many Police Officers claim they are hampered on radio phone-ins and there certainly is this perception amongst the general public.

Overall though I sort of agree with you about the crime rate. IMO it has always been around the same and unfortunatley its a case of being (or living) in the wrong place at the wrong time if you end up as a victim of violent crime.