WHAT SHOULD THE TRUST DO

Serious answers please (and serious ain't a word I use often)

Looks like some how or other thanks toAnnis (and he got a nack for doing this) I seem to have now put myself up for TRUST election,must be true coz I read it on here,lol.

I have stated all along that a Trust is a good thing, and that if things got or get messy, it will be the Trust who like it or not will have to play a Major part. They have got the right set up, and the support of all the associated bodies, and have done a lot of hard BORING PC driven work to get to this stage.

I have also stated that I don't agree with a lot of the issues they have championed or the direction they have taken, to me it appears as if they have been begging out for causes to use as a vehicle rather than deal with issues that concern or interest you average typical fan(if there is such an animal).

I would only get involved if I felt I could make a difference and that it made things better, otherwise It's dead in the water before it starts as far as I'm concerned. I don't need an ego boost, I don't worry about the flak, my God remember them awful town wrecking, booze swilling animals called the Rams that I created, water and duck's back spring to mind, my concience is clean.

But the six million dollar question is "What do you the fans want the Trust to do for you and your club,an what direction would you want it to take"
Personally I have loads of ideas, and my God wont they rattle some cages, but if at the end of the day my ideas don't get the support and I'm out on my own, then either I'm wrong or I'm wasting my time, and I wont be going anywhere if it's a waste of my time.

So ideas suggestions, but try and be constructive, if it ain' broke, don't fix it, if it ain't happening, then make it happen.


http://www.ccfctrust.org/

Gwyn

I would like to see yourself and the others mentioned activly involved in the trust, however I share you scepticism

I never joined the trust as I see it a cross between the ccsc supporters club and the MM message board - neither of which excite me in the slightest (which could be a criticism of me and not necessarily the aforementioned two its just my opinion)

I fear that anyone on this board would not be welcomed with open arms and would be seen as an outsider and probably use phrases such as "hostile takeover" on other MBs.

Will your ideas get the backing many believe they deserve?, will you and the others get the votes they need? I am unsure

For the trust to work it needs fans from all sections to be involved and support it I dont know if that will happen, for example I would support the softer approach of emails and letters to club etc, however would others then support the need for further action i.e. protest marches ?

So I am still very much undecided on wether to join or not, however should you and the others decide to go for it and issue a rallying cry I will pay my £12 and vote for you, good luck your mad enough to give it a go

the trust is a good thing,but only if it represents the people it is their to support,the commitee should be no more than spokesmen and not to relay the commitee own point of view.the problen is when things go tits up people often look for someone to blame and that is often the person who is trying to help.its a big ask for anybody to take on this role at the moment with the club in such a mess,but if you or someone is would like to step up and are prepared to be the voice then goodluck,people are fickle.

Gwyn

I think you will be a superb addition to the Trust, if you need any help or support I'm 100% behind you. I'm a supporter of the Trust but have been very disapointed with its performance over the last month or so. Things I'd like to see addressed are:

1. Priority: PR out - he's a disaster for the club, however bad it is now, he will only make it worse if he stays.
2. Anything that can be done to raise atmosphere in the ground (swap ends is the dream solution)
3. Trust to learn a few lessons from this board and become more dynamic and action focussed
4. The Trust needs to have and official spokesman and become much better at PR (we wait too long for official statements)
5. Raise the membership of the Trust to 10,000 even if it mean offering a years free membership for new members as incentive.

Hope this helps, all constructive criticism but nothing that can't be fixed. PM me and let me know if you need any help.

I am already in the Trust and my thinking of what the trust is all about is more a less a go between for the Supporters and the CCFC Board for all matters regarding CCFC on and off the pitch , without the supporters we have no club ! What I would want is for the Trust to try to utilize the membership money to buy shares into CCFC and have a nominated Committee member to attend CCFC Shareholders meetings along with all the other Shareholders PLUS that committee member br privy to attend CCFC Board meetings on a purely observational position at the Club's disecretion to ensure clarity of all matters , aslong as they are not too sensitive , and to quash all rumours etc coming out from various sources within CCFC and Message Boards etc !

Also the proposed committee man to put forward ALL ideas from us ( the loyal fans ) on anything that will improve both CCFC and the Stadium , and also we get feedback on what the Board at CCFC think of and will do with our ideas . Im sure that the newly elected Trust commitee will get inundated with thoughts suggestions form individual supporters regardless of which Message Board ur on etc . Then the basis of these suggestions can get discussed at a Trust Comittee meeting and then put forward at an Open Meeting before contact with the CCFC board . Just an opinion

the trust is a good thing,but only if it represents the people it is their to support,the commitee should be no more than spokesmen and not to relay the commitee own point of view.the problen is when things go tits up people often look for someone to blame and that is often the person who is trying to help.its a big ask for anybody to take on this role at the moment with the club in such a mess,but if you or someone is would like to step up and are prepared to be the voice then goodluck,people are fickle.

I disagree. A committe consisting of just spokesmen could be a disaster. You need more than a set of nodding dogs on the committee.

You want a committee of independently minded people who are unafraid to make a decision that may be at odds with what some of their members want if they feel it is the right thing..

This not to say that a commitee should continually be at odds with its members, on most things they will agree, but on occasion thre are things which require hard decisions and you need more than just spokesmen when that happens.

I agree, if you vote a committee, then you should trust them to act for you, if they mess up or don't represent the majority view, then vote them off, if you need full approval and ratification for every matter or even every item, then nothing would get done.

Sorry Gwyn, I did the same to you on the Cardiff City Valley Rams Book, went on and on, But thats because I believe you will be an Asset to them.
Just joined today Gwyn, I am so useless on Computers, I went to Keith(Since 62) and paid him Direct lol

I have joined and believe that if you want your Vote/Say then the only way I was going to do this was by Joining.


http://www.ccfctrust.org/

Gwyn

I would like to see yourself and the others mentioned activly involved in the trust, however I share you scepticism

I never joined the trust as I see it a cross between the ccsc supporters club and the MM message board - neither of which excite me in the slightest (which could be a criticism of me and not necessarily the aforementioned two its just my opinion)

I fear that anyone on this board would not be welcomed with open arms and would be seen as an outsider and probably use phrases such as "hostile takeover" on other MBs.

Will your ideas get the backing many believe they deserve?, will you and the others get the votes they need? I am unsure

For the trust to work it needs fans from all sections to be involved and support it I dont know if that will happen, for example I would support the softer approach of emails and letters to club etc, however would others then support the need for further action i.e. protest marches ?

So I am still very much undecided on wether to join or not, however should you and the others decide to go for it and issue a rallying cry I will pay my £12 and vote for you, good luck your mad enough to give it a go

I agree thats my Only worry, so the more from this Forum that Join the more chance people like Gwyn, Carl, Steve Davies, Tim(Lawn Mower),Tony Williams etc will have a chance of having a Seat on there.

Hi Gwyn,

I tend to come from the if it aint broke, then why try to fix it camp.
I don't really see the need for a Trust in it's present form. It seems that the main objectives of the Trust was for meaningful dialogue with the club and to have fans representation at board level and to build community links. This can never work, because the fans are just paying customer to these people who own the club and they have no value other than the cash they put into the club, thats where the power lies and the ability to change things lies in how much money you can put in or at least how much money can be witheld. We had a Trust in place, and stiil 10,000 fans got shat on, thats how much football clubs respect Trusts. IMO, we don't need organisations to represent supporters rights, as we really don't have any, apart from paying our money, to watch our team. The owners and board are all used to running businesses and are the first to realise that if the fans witheld money then they would listen to them. We only have a supporters club, because it has a use, and that is to organise away travel, which it does a good job of. IMO, what is missing now from my football experience, is that inside tha stadium the atmosphere is dreadful. If you could organise section leaders within the ground, whom would be in charge of sections with a band of solid singers/chanters, who gave out and collected flags and banners, maybe drums, I don't know what! I guess what I'm saying is that, as fans , these really are things that we could control and really improve on, and maybe the whole experience would get a lot better an hey even attract more supporters, rather than getting involved in all the Politics at board level. I have likened it to the Italian Ultras, I know they have Hooligan overtones and associations, but if we could remove that and look to the comradship and belonging element instead, then it could only be good for the club.

Exactly, fans want to be a part of things taht make a difference like generating the atmosphere etc. also giving the kids some guidance as to what's acceptable and what ain't, we need to make it a fortress without breaking any laws.

firstly the trust already has a " mission statement " ( yes I know , its a bit pc ) and a written constitution

and we have a number of various sub committees etc

within those areas there are clearly plenty of areas where changes could be made

for example ..I think the membership thing is too complicated ..and as gwyn has said ...we need to be reaching the fans from our heartland .......the valleys north and east and west of cardiff , bridgend etc etc

I certainly think anyone who comes in with vibrant ideas for that sort of thing is going to be an asset to the trust ..quite simply we need more members..end of story

in terms of what we actually do its importnat to remember that if for example someone was elected , they would be elected to a board

and as such if what you propose ( and I mean anyone who stood) is agreed by the majority of the board ..then it can be put to members and become policy


but the reverse also applies ...if a proposal ..for example spending less time on community events ..and more time on social events ...was not agreed to by a majority ..then again ..that would have to be accepted

my personal view is gwyn has a lot of experience and has always been seen as a good front man ..and thats what organisations need

I thought the way the march was marshalled and kept in order was excellent ..and the speech by gwyn before we walked about us representing the club that day and that we needed good behaviour was vital

that can only be a positive

in terms of policy I think the trust is working on some good stuff as it is ..certainly the anti social behaviour draft ...aimed at making our younger fans realise that bad behaviour at home and way games is not good for the image of the club .....is already in place ..its been around to a few schools locally ..but idf peopel ar elected and want to change it or make it better ..or even drop it ..then thats what democracy is about ..if you get a majority of opinion on your side by a vote ..thats the way it works

but what you want in these things might not be what you get ..there may have to be compromise ...I understand why people have been pissed off with what they ahve seen as a lack of action ...and I also saw why the march was a success ...I enjoyed the day and supported it ..as did many fans from all backgrounds

but when you are dealing with more " formal " ways of dealing with things , then it becomes a bit more restricted , if that makes any sense ?

Gwyn

I would like to see yourself and the others mentioned activly involved in the trust, however I share you scepticism

I never joined the trust as I see it a cross between the ccsc supporters club and the MM message board - neither of which excite me in the slightest (which could be a criticism of me and not necessarily the aforementioned two its just my opinion)

I fear that anyone on this board would not be welcomed with open arms and would be seen as an outsider and probably use phrases such as "hostile takeover" on other MBs.

Will your ideas get the backing many believe they deserve?, will you and the others get the votes they need? I am unsure

For the trust to work it needs fans from all sections to be involved and support it I dont know if that will happen, for example I would support the softer approach of emails and letters to club etc, however would others then support the need for further action i.e. protest marches ?

So I am still very much undecided on wether to join or not, however should you and the others decide to go for it and issue a rallying cry I will pay my £12 and vote for you, good luck your mad enough to give it a go

I am well aware of the difference of opinions that fly back and forth across the web

on here you get some good debate and other times you get people posting totally incorrect rubbish about the trust ..one case being the other day that the club had arranged a community event when it was the trust who set it up , organised the day , arranged the catering and basically did the lot ..the club basically just joining in on the evening
and of course, we have other silly things said on other messagebaords

its all daft

we do have people from all backgrounds involved in the trust ..but we need more

and if people from whatever background get elected , then thats the way it is

and if people dont like what they do , they can vote them off

its a simple as that lads

I believe the trust should be pushing for whats best for the fans. With the ulimate aims/objectives of taking over the club and giving it back to the fans. How would they achieve this: by taking over/or having their own scarves made up and making a small profit. Organise gentleman evenings, fundays, supporters football matches etc, They could have countless thing made with the trust emblem on to raise funds of more shares, or to put in a pot for our our takeover one day.

On a more realise level i think the trust should be a organisation that is the face of the fans. There should be a trust member at all board meeting to make sure that they all have whats best for the club/fans at heart and not personnal gain. To report back to the trust and if we dont like what we are hearing then we vote on what 'action' to take. The board member should also come up with ideas and put them forward to their member to vote on. e.g The Rooster etc with the march.

Also I think the trust should be campainging for the canton and grange ends to be swapped over for a better atmosphere, save standing areas,ticket prices or anything else their members are happy with eg the price of a beer, selection of pies etc.

good ideas

The last thing I think any of us need is the best run, most well organised trust that is paperwork perfect,proceduarlly spotless but achieves very little of substance and has a membership of diddly squat.

If it don't appeal to the fans and it's meant to be for the fans, then is there need for it.
You can own the best run shop in the world, but if no one shops there, you go bust.

one of my biggest concerns that i think we should be looking at is the acadamy set up.
this was the baby of sam and under the regime of the riddler it is deterioating at the rate of knots.
the acadamy needs to continue being funded in the correct manner so that we continue to fetch players through into the first team and if we have to sell them on to bigger clubs so be it.
At the moment the acadamy budget is sparse and is relying on the generosity of supporters to stumble along.
To me the bubble is begining to burst with football and i think wage levels within the championship will drop somewhat over the next few years.
Any spare monies and anything hopefully a bigger and stronger trust can do to stabilise and strenghten the acadamy over the next few years would be one of my main issue's.


oh and of course world peace

one of my biggest concerns that i think we should be looking at is the acadamy set up.
this was the baby of sam and under the regime of the riddler it is deterioating at the rate of knots.
the acadamy needs to continue being funded in the correct manner so that we continue to fetch players through into the first team and if we have to sell them on to bigger clubs so be it.
At the moment the acadamy budget is sparse and is relying on the generosity of supporters to stumble along.
To me the bubble is begining to burst with football and i think wage levels within the championship will drop somewhat over the next few years.
Any spare monies and anything hopefully a bigger and stronger trust can do to stabilise and strenghten the acadamy over the next few years would be one of my main issue's.


oh and of course world peace

The last thing I think any of us need is the best run, most well organised trust that is paperwork perfect,proceduarlly spotless but achieves very little of substance and has a membership of diddly squat.

If it don't appeal to the fans and it's meant to be for the fans, then is there need for it.
You can own the best run shop in the world, but if no one shops there, you go bust.

I understand that , but as with the rams , the lads wanted a good crack and the bus to turn up on time

it was left to hardcore of you to do all the work behind the scenes, book , collect the money, deal with the always helpful and kind police , speak to the prress , atke the shots from individuals who often were just jealous

its the same with the trust , a heck of a lot of meetings and this and that ...but people mostly just join and leave the ins and outs to the few

the fact we have 950 members means we aint doing bad

until any group has the vast majority of the regualr fan base..and in our case that would mean 10000 plus members , then its always going to face that critisism

when you were in the rams you know as well as I do that people would mouth off saying " I am not a member of the rams, they dont speak for me , they only have 800 people who use their coaches " after you had been interviewed in the paper or been on the tv

the trust has had this critisism on a regular basis

one of my biggest concerns that i think we should be looking at is the acadamy set up.
this was the baby of sam and under the regime of the riddler it is deterioating at the rate of knots.
the acadamy needs to continue being funded in the correct manner so that we continue to fetch players through into the first team and if we have to sell them on to bigger clubs so be it.
At the moment the acadamy budget is sparse and is relying on the generosity of supporters to stumble along.
To me the bubble is begining to burst with football and i think wage levels within the championship will drop somewhat over the next few years.
Any spare monies and anything hopefully a bigger and stronger trust can do to stabilise and strenghten the acadamy over the next few years would be one of my main issue's.


oh and of course world peace

Steve, THE RIDDLER HAS VIRTUALLY KILLED OUR ACADEMY
and thats not hear say, its a Fact.

At it's peak we had close on 3,000 members with the Rams,yes the majority of them wanted no involvement other than being looked after, but during that time we had a bucket collection for the Tsunami appeal and raised £13,000.00 + we set up and organised the fans charter to take matters into our hands, accept responsibility and stop the problems and we had 11,000 signatures. We would on most away games be responsible for 60% of the away travel coming on our coaches, we saw a UK record in falling arrests at football matches involving Cardiff year on year until we finished.

We had a great close working relationship with the CCSC who after initial concerns could see that we were catering for and looking after fans who would not want to be part of the "pop and crisps family image which provides a great service" most of us realised there was need for at least two distinctive groups.

I feel the Trust still haven't established an identity by trying to please everyone, which is impossible. They need a positive in your face active identity, where fans will be proud to say they are part of the Trust, wear a Trust T shirt or badge, have an identity, feel they are acheiving something by simply belonging.

We would sponsor two players kits a season, we kitted out all our stewrads with high vis jackets, we donated thousands to local charities, raised £5,000 for the restoration of the Aberfan cemetary and this was done by what was seen by some as a disorganised rabble of beer swilling hooligans.

It is up to the few that organise and work to get the best results from their membership, the silent majority will forever be the silent majority, when they speak out, they are no longer part of the silent majority.
If people don't want to get involved, then that's fine, but when you start criticising them unless you put up an alternative then as far as I'm concerned you ain't worth air space.

One concern of mine is the amount of man hours you have all put in and the amount of effort it has taken you all, which I am not belittling because I know you all genuinely want to help and make a difference.

But in any business you could think of, if it took that much work to achieve the little you have achieved, then you'd soon be out of business. And yes whilst many may say it's not a business, I disagree and it should be run like a business even if there are no financial aims or constraints.

Possibly if the energy and effort were directed at more relevant areas, then the recognition would come automatically.

I am going to have to pull you up again here gwyn

you are saying that we have put lots of hours in , yet have achieved little ?

I would dispute that


you can surely see that we have to move away from a small group of fans being close to the club ..and elected voted individuals doing so , who are subject to being voted off if they dont do the job

are you suggesting that we are not having the recognition because thats a fact or is it because we dont happen to have been working on the areas you want us to work on or you feel that other fans want us to work on ?

If thats the case, then you or like minded people need to stand for election

thats how these things work

we have been running 18 months , its not like we have been around for ten years and nobody is interested

as for man hours, I am well aware of the time and effort it takes

Personally i am already a member of the Trust and feel the only way for it to gain in strength is to increase the membership to do this the Trust needs to spread it's wings and organise meetings up in the Valleys down in Bridgend etc

I have personally contacted the Trust and offered them the use of Aberdare Rugby Club fror a Trust meeting and i am sure Chegs would welcome the Trust to the Brunswick. I also think Gwyn would be a great addition to the trust Committee and as he himself said i'm sure he would ruffle a few feathers but you need a few people who are not afraid to speak their minds on any Committee.

I also think the Trust to date as done a lot of good work and i am not prepared to criticise the people currently running the trust because unless you are prepared to put yourself forward for election (Which i am not due to other committments) then i am prepared to support anyone who is prepared to give their time to running the Trust and wish them well.

No i'm suggesting you are not having the recognition because the areas you are wworking on obviously don't stimulate the masses, not because they are areas that don't interest me, I'm just one person who happens to be a member of the trust, it's the potential 20,000+ others who are City fans and haven't joined and are unlikely to unless things change.

And as far being aware of the time and effort it takes, I applaud everyone for what they have put in, what I questioned was the effort may have produced better results if they had been applied to areas that interested the support, because the facts are without a massive change in direction, I feel personally that the Trust will not grow into the size or shape it needs to be, before it can get the recognition it deserves.

In all honesty if you did a straw poll at any home match, quite a few people would not know there is a Trust, quite a few would not know of anything the Trust are doing or what they have allready done, and most would not know what their aims are for the future, not a criticism, just stating a fact.

This is why personally I feel they need much more exposure, much better causes to champion and a much higher in your face visibility.

I want the Trust to work, I'm not saying I have all the answers, I'm not even saying I have any answers,I'm not even that sure that the areas that appear broken or in need of change would be helped by Trust intervention, possibly the CCSC should expand their remit, I really don't know.

well the suggestion that on number we are not doing what the masses want could be made of any organisation ..unless it had say 10000 plus members

I agree that we need more exposure and a membership drive but because you think that the trust isnt tackling tyhe right areasis not borne out by what my experience is

this board has , as is its right , been critical of the trust

and I agree with some of it

but compared to our supporter base of 18000 plus the views of this board are like the other board just a very small minority of fans

on here , many people are critical of the trust

on the other board many threads are very supportive

I awould also disagree taht the rest of the fanbase have not joined because we are not stimulating them and doing what they want us to do.....I think its more likely to be that a substantial amount of our supporter base are more interested in just going down the game

in that I mean that they dont read messageboards, often think the echo is spot on with the city news and have never really been members of supporter groups

the ccsc has 1200 members..out of 18000 regular fans

gwyn if we went into administraion you would see a sudden flood of normally placud fans begin to ask whats gone wrong and join up with the trust ..thats the way its always been in this game

I certainly dont think they are not joining because they have taken a look at the leaflets and thought " that doesnt stimulate me " and wont join unless, in your view, things drastically change

Gwyn.. one question! as you are are a member of the Trust why have you never put yourself up for election?

Because like many others I joined because I am a mate of one of the founder members who asked me to join with all my family,many of the membership I'm sure have joined for similar reasons, don't have a problem with that, it's a bit chicken and egg, without members the Trust get no recognition,without goals and targets to support, people will be unlikely to join because they don't feel strongly about the issues involved, but as Sludge states admin or some other problems as we have recently seen help to get people off their arse wanting to rally behind the flag so to speak.

This is why the Trust should have run and organised the march in my opinion.

If you read my posts I have always been in support of a trust and strongly believe there is a need for one. I have also stated that I don't agree with many of the areas they have targetted or direction they have taken. Have i felt strongly enough to give up my time to try and make the changes I would like to see, the answer is no, and even now I am still far from committed enough to think it's a fight worth fighting, and that possibly as others have suggested a different vehicle may be the better way forward to fight for the areas that are of more concern to the average fan, this is just my opinion and it may be totally out of sinc with the feeling of the masses so to speak.

At this current moment as the Psycho said "I'm in two minds"

morning guys and very good thread this , my concern now is 1 that was raised earlier on in this thread and its to do with CCFC and not really the Trust . However the Trust do need to address this issue with CCFC and that is what the hell is going on with the Acadamy ?? Ever since the meeting and mailshots asking us the loyal fans for money to support the future of this club its been obvious that the Acadamy funding seems to have dried up internally , so I take it that the CCFC Board dont see this as a problem then do they ? Surely the season's budget MUST take into account Acadamy funding as a priority

In My Opinion The Trust should have meetings up the Valleys as well, just My Opinion like I say.

In My Opinion The Trust should have meetings up the Valleys as well, just My Opinion like I say.

Im a Valley boy and Id say yes to that