THE LEEDS SITUATION AND THE TRUST

Now surely something like this should be jumped on by the Trust, these are the sort of things that would stimulate support from the grass roots of Cardiff fans. It is an awkward one for the supporters club, because they are there to support the team and the club, but surely it should be the role of the Trust to take on these sort of battles.

I think most people mistakenly thought or at least hoped an independent group representing the fan base would take on the issues that mattered to the fans, and actions (as commendable as they are) in trying to attract support from the Somali integration group and other Islamic groups would be better left to community leaders and the such, and not down to the Trust.

Personally I think that football as a sport is a great vehicle for cutting through racial and cultural differences and we should be encouraging support from all areas rather than certain groups of society. Nothing better to get a bit of harmony, racial cultural or otherwise between people than sharing a can of strongbow on the way to Millwall

And I do say that with a serious sense of view, sharing a bond like supporting the same team and sharing the same passions breaks through all barriers, but if we are going to attract new supporters let's do it from all areas and all sections rather than specific groups.

Now surely something like this should be jumped on by the Trust, these are the sort of things that would stimulate support from the grass roots of Cardiff fans. It is an awkward one for the supporters club, because they are there to support the team and the club, but surely it should be the role of the Trust to take on these sort of battles.

I think most people mistakenly thought or at least hoped an independent group representing the fan base would take on the issues that mattered to the fans, and actions (as commendable as they are) in trying to attract support from the Somali integration group and other Islamic groups would be better left to community leaders and the such, and not down to the Trust.

Personally I think that football as a sport is a great vehicle for cutting through racial and cultural differences and we should be encouraging support from all areas rather than certain groups of society. Nothing better to get a bit of harmony, racial cultural or otherwise between people than sharing a can of strongbow on the way to Millwall

And I do say that with a serious sense of view, sharing a bond like supporting the same team and sharing the same passions breaks through all barriers, but if we are going to attract new supporters let's do it from all areas and all sections rather than specific groups.

You mean there is a supporters trust at cardiff? is it some kind of secret group

aren't they the inner circle?

or now the outer loop

Gwyn, This to me is a good time for the Trust to do something finally and represent the fans, I have had a go at them in the past for failing time and time again.Hopefully this time they do something, If you, Carl or myself tried we would get shot down.
I would like to hear what their thoughts are on the Leeds situation, do we boycott it, just go and be treated unfairly or turn up and protest?

Why not take the 2000/3000 fans to the football league head office, annoy the shit out of them on the weekend before when we have a weekend off until they force leeds to change there stance . they cant ignore 3000 mad taffs banging there door down .

is the trust still going ?

Nothing will happen. You can trust me on this one.

Their damned if they do damned if they dont. Im not even sure what they stand for at the moment. I joined up but now am wondering is it time to stop the subscription.

Gwyn, This to me is a good time for the Trust to do something finally and represent the fans, I have had a go at them in the past for failing time and time again.Hopefully this time they do something, If you, Carl or myself tried we would get shot down.
I would like to hear what their thoughts are on the Leeds situation, do we boycott it, just go and be treated unfairly or turn up and protest?

im buggered,ive my flight booked from dublin and booked time off work so m not wasting one of the few chances i get to watch us away,even if i have to go in the poxy leeds end

Trust got tables in the standing areas tho

Problem is its cramped enough without them

This is something I agree with you on Gwyn, the trust has always appeared to have a lack of direction, nobody seems to know exactly what they do.

This is something I agree with you on Gwyn, the trust has always appeared to have a lack of direction, nobody seems to know exactly what they do.

They do but like to organise a meeting first in a fortnight time, then write up the notes, then publish them. Poll the members, organise another meeting then discuss.

Leeds game will be long gone.

Best you can hope for is a mildly worded statement from them

As soon as Corky finished it lost all control and respect.

This is something I agree with you on Gwyn, the trust has always appeared to have a lack of direction, nobody seems to know exactly what they do.

I said at the very start that in our position the Trust was an organisation that was not needed, such an organisation is really only needed when there is no other way out i.e when clubs are in admin, that is when there is enough motivation from the fan base to become involved to get off their arses and do something. The Trust is full of well meaning supporters who have no cause.

No organizations will be operational the more the " new" club pushes forward. A good thing too in many cases dissolving the egotistic.

Don't see what the trust can do about this to be honest. It's the supporters club and travel groups who deal with this on a weekly basis so it's best left to them to try and resolve it along with the club taking a much firmer stance with Leeds on supporters behalf.

Now surely something like this should be jumped on by the Trust, these are the sort of things that would stimulate support from the grass roots of Cardiff fans. It is an awkward one for the supporters club, because they are there to support the team and the club, but surely it should be the role of the Trust to take on these sort of battles.

I think most people mistakenly thought or at least hoped an independent group representing the fan base would take on the issues that mattered to the fans, and actions (as commendable as they are) in trying to attract support from the Somali integration group and other Islamic groups would be better left to community leaders and the such, and not down to the Trust.

Personally I think that football as a sport is a great vehicle for cutting through racial and cultural differences and we should be encouraging support from all areas rather than certain groups of society. Nothing better to get a bit of harmony, racial cultural or otherwise between people than sharing a can of strongbow on the way to Millwall

And I do say that with a serious sense of view, sharing a bond like supporting the same team and sharing the same passions breaks through all barriers, but if we are going to attract new supporters let's do it from all areas and all sections rather than specific groups.

Why shouldn't the supporters club take this on too?

The trust isn't independent, they are fans too. Is this just another thinly veiled attempt at having a go at the trust? Something which you do fairly often.

Personally I think all groups should say bugger off to Leeds and not run trips.

I can think of one group of fans who turned their nose up at a trip to West Ham and were shot down for it.

I think Vince should come out and at least say we are running a very limited trip to Leeds.

Think the supporters club and other travel groups would be better able to set something up quickly. The way the trust is set up it needs to think longer term but it could definitely start working on clubs we have away travel problems with for future seasons. Although I'm still not convinced that the travel groups may not be in a better position to petition the clubs via our club because they are the ones that deal with the issues every time it happens. I'm pretty sure the travel groups must be doing what they can via the regular meetings they have.

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Why not get involved yourself Gwyn? You appear to be very passionate about it and its need for a different direction?

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.


The Trust should represent their members but also the supporters club have a duty to represent their membership too
This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

we have a trust

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Just for clarity , the club is well aware of the Trust board`s view that the restrictions Leeds are trying to impose on travelling fans is totally unfair and in direct breach of their promises made at the time CCFC reduced restrictions on their fans when they visited CCS this season. And we are delighted that Wayne and others at the club are taking such a strong stance on the matter through the League etc.

The Trust has also made both Supporters Direct (the national umbrella organisation for all Trusts)) and Leeds United Trust aware of the problem and sought their support in getting the restrictions lifted.

Hopefully , the Football Supporters Federation , in which both Vince and Corky have senior positions , will also be contributing as a result of their prompting.

Not sure what else you expect us to do. It is certainly not our role to tell individual supporters whether or not they should attend the game (nor is it yours) - it is a personal decision for each individual.

Keith

P.S not sure where your comment comes from about far less of the Trust membership attending away games.Far less than who? I know from personal conversations with several that I have met that they are regular away travellers. Do you have an analysis of our membership that I don`t that says differently or was it just a throwaway comment on your part without any foundation in fact?

So are the Trust members aware of the Turst involvement?

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

Thank you for that information Keith I think this is what most fans wanted was to see something from the trust on this
This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Just for clarity , the club is well aware of the Trust board`s view that the restrictions Leeds are trying to impose on travelling fans is totally unfair and in direct breach of their promises made at the time CCFC reduced restrictions on their fans when they visited CCS this season. And we are delighted that Wayne and others at the club are taking such a strong stance on the matter through the League etc.

The Trust has also made both Supporters Direct (the national umbrella organisation for all Trusts)) and Leeds United Trust aware of the problem and sought their support in getting the restrictions lifted.

Hopefully , the Football Supporters Federation , in which both Vince and Corky have senior positions , will also be contributing as a result of their prompting.

Not sure what else you expect us to do. It is certainly not our role to tell individual supporters whether or not they should attend the game (nor is it yours) - it is a personal decision for each individual.

Keith

P.S not sure where your comment comes from about far less of the Trust membership attending away games.Far less than who? I know from personal conversations with several that I have met that they are regular away travellers. Do you have an analysis of our membership that I don`t that says differently or was it just a throwaway comment on your part without any foundation in fact?

Thank you for that information Keith I think that is all fans wanted to know if the trust were doing anything and that is the problem with the trust they don't come out and say in the first place

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

Thank you for that information Keith I think this is what most fans wanted was to see something from the trust on this
This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Just for clarity , the club is well aware of the Trust board`s view that the restrictions Leeds are trying to impose on travelling fans is totally unfair and in direct breach of their promises made at the time CCFC reduced restrictions on their fans when they visited CCS this season. And we are delighted that Wayne and others at the club are taking such a strong stance on the matter through the League etc.

The Trust has also made both Supporters Direct (the national umbrella organisation for all Trusts)) and Leeds United Trust aware of the problem and sought their support in getting the restrictions lifted.

Hopefully , the Football Supporters Federation , in which both Vince and Corky have senior positions , will also be contributing as a result of their prompting.

Not sure what else you expect us to do. It is certainly not our role to tell individual supporters whether or not they should attend the game (nor is it yours) - it is a personal decision for each individual.

Keith

P.S not sure where your comment comes from about far less of the Trust membership attending away games.Far less than who? I know from personal conversations with several that I have met that they are regular away travellers. Do you have an analysis of our membership that I don`t that says differently or was it just a throwaway comment on your part without any foundation in fact?

Thank you for that information Keith I think that is all fans wanted to know if the trust were doing anything and that is the problem with the trust they don't come out and say in the first place

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

Thank you for that information Keith I think this is what most fans wanted was to see something from the trust on this
This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Just for clarity , the club is well aware of the Trust board`s view that the restrictions Leeds are trying to impose on travelling fans is totally unfair and in direct breach of their promises made at the time CCFC reduced restrictions on their fans when they visited CCS this season. And we are delighted that Wayne and others at the club are taking such a strong stance on the matter through the League etc.

The Trust has also made both Supporters Direct (the national umbrella organisation for all Trusts)) and Leeds United Trust aware of the problem and sought their support in getting the restrictions lifted.

Hopefully , the Football Supporters Federation , in which both Vince and Corky have senior positions , will also be contributing as a result of their prompting.

Not sure what else you expect us to do. It is certainly not our role to tell individual supporters whether or not they should attend the game (nor is it yours) - it is a personal decision for each individual.

Keith

P.S not sure where your comment comes from about far less of the Trust membership attending away games.Far less than who? I know from personal conversations with several that I have met that they are regular away travellers. Do you have an analysis of our membership that I don`t that says differently or was it just a throwaway comment on your part without any foundation in fact?

Thank you for that information Keith I think that is all fans wanted to know if the trust were doing anything and that is the problem with the trust they don't come out and say in the first place

No problem.

The reason why the Trust don`t tend to be as visible as we might be in these things is that we prefer the quiet , effective , diplomatic route through people in power who can actually effect change.

Others prefer to criticise and seek to be the centre of attention and seek popularity on message boards.

Each to their own , but my personal preference is the former route , although I accept that perhaps we should publicise better what we are doing at times.

Publicise better Keith? How about at least stepping on the start line.

At the moment you are coming over as doing bugger all. If you want to have a strong Trust you need to be seen to be doing something. I agree there is a balance to this, you dont want egos taking advantage but thats the risk you take. Better to be seen than not.

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Just for clarity , the club is well aware of the Trust board`s view that the restrictions Leeds are trying to impose on travelling fans is totally unfair and in direct breach of their promises made at the time CCFC reduced restrictions on their fans when they visited CCS this season. And we are delighted that Wayne and others at the club are taking such a strong stance on the matter through the League etc.

The Trust has also made both Supporters Direct (the national umbrella organisation for all Trusts)) and Leeds United Trust aware of the problem and sought their support in getting the restrictions lifted.

Hopefully , the Football Supporters Federation , in which both Vince and Corky have senior positions , will also be contributing as a result of their prompting.

Not sure what else you expect us to do. It is certainly not our role to tell individual supporters whether or not they should attend the game (nor is it yours) - it is a personal decision for each individual.

Keith

P.S not sure where your comment comes from about far less of the Trust membership attending away games.Far less than who? I know from personal conversations with several that I have met that they are regular away travellers. Do you have an analysis of our membership that I don`t that says differently or was it just a throwaway comment on your part without any foundation in fact?

Read the post again Keith, i did state that the main aim of the CCSC is to support the club, the biggest part for their membership is made up of people who utilise the travel facilities organised by this first class organisation.
Where as this isn't the primary function of the Trust, hence far fewer of their membership travel away, would you disagree with that?

I did also say that the one of the Trust's main aims should be to represent the fans even if it's not in support of the club's wishes at times, hence away travel is not down to them, but representing the fans who are getting messed around by such control measures, in my eyes should be on of the areas they should be all over like a rash.

My post was put up with a constructive aim not destructive negative aim, hence me bringing up the contradictions in my own personal views and post, perhaps there are no easy answers to the lack of support for the Trust, perhaps that's how some prefer it, but my opinion is until they look more at things that affect your broad majority of the fan base, and start speaking and helping all Cardiff fans rather than just those that have taken out a membership of the Trust, then perhaps progress will be minimal if any.


Do I think we need a Trust, yes I do, but i do believe it should be there to look after the needs that are applicable to the grass root fan, even if they are seen by some as foul mouthed knuckle dragging law breaking drunken hooligans.

Why not get involved yourself Gwyn? You appear to be very passionate about it and its need for a different direction?

I'm passionate about the club and selfishly matters that concern me, after ten years of the Rams I feel I have done my bit along with many others. Certain areas and points mean a lot to me, and I become mouthy and proactive, but dealing with some of the boring less interesting areas is no longer my bag and I'm first to appreciate you need to cover both.

I will be the first to admit while democracy must be king, sometimes you can be too ridiculously PC and democratic.

The way I see it, is if people are voted into a position then they should be allowed to act accordingly rather than have a full referendum for the slightest point, don't know how anything can work under those constraints, by the time you ballot everyone, analise results, meet to discuss solutions, then ballot again to see if those solutions are acceptable to the majority, the whole issue as long gone.

The people voted in, should be allowed to act, and if it's unacceptable, then vote them out, but to me, it appears as if thy have their hands tied behind their backs in rules and restrictions.

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Just for clarity , the club is well aware of the Trust board`s view that the restrictions Leeds are trying to impose on travelling fans is totally unfair and in direct breach of their promises made at the time CCFC reduced restrictions on their fans when they visited CCS this season. And we are delighted that Wayne and others at the club are taking such a strong stance on the matter through the League etc.

The Trust has also made both Supporters Direct (the national umbrella organisation for all Trusts)) and Leeds United Trust aware of the problem and sought their support in getting the restrictions lifted.

Hopefully , the Football Supporters Federation , in which both Vince and Corky have senior positions , will also be contributing as a result of their prompting.

Not sure what else you expect us to do. It is certainly not our role to tell individual supporters whether or not they should attend the game (nor is it yours) - it is a personal decision for each individual.

Keith

P.S not sure where your comment comes from about far less of the Trust membership attending away games.Far less than who? I know from personal conversations with several that I have met that they are regular away travellers. Do you have an analysis of our membership that I don`t that says differently or was it just a throwaway comment on your part without any foundation in fact?

Read the post again Keith, i did state that the main aim of the CCSC is to support the club, the biggest part for their membership is made up of people who utilise the travel facilities organised by this first class organisation.
Where as this isn't the primary function of the Trust, hence far fewer of their membership travel away, would you disagree with that?

I did also say that the one of the Trust's main aims should be to represent the fans even if it's not in support of the club's wishes at times, hence away travel is not down to them, but representing the fans who are getting messed around by such control measures, in my eyes should be on of the areas they should be all over like a rash.

My post was put up with a constructive aim not destructive negative aim, hence me bringing up the contradictions in my own personal views and post, perhaps there are no easy answers to the lack of support for the Trust, perhaps that's how some prefer it, but my opinion is until they look more at things that affect your broad majority of the fan base, and start speaking and helping all Cardiff fans rather than just those that have taken out a membership of the Trust, then perhaps progress will be minimal if any.


Do I think we need a Trust, yes I do, but i do believe it should be there to look after the needs that are applicable to the grass root fan, even if they are seen by some as foul mouthed knuckle dragging law breaking drunken hooligans.

But your initial post was quite clearly having yet another go at the Trust on your part , suggesting (wrongly) that the Trust was doing nothing about the Leeds ticketing position as well as criticising its efforts to generate new fans for the club from the local ethnic communities. I interpret that as a destructive negative aim despite your (somewhat muddled) subsequent post.

I still have no idea on what you are basing your claim that fewer Trust members travel to away games than other fans. What data do you have on who are Trust members , how many of them are also CCSC members and travel away on their or other travel group coaches, how many travel independently etc? I have no such data but have no reason to believe that Trust members are not as regular away supporters as anyone else. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what information you have that suggests differently?

In defence of the supporters club, they have organised and setup protest etc at quite a few clubs with a good level of success.
However, their main aim is to support the club and arrange transport.
But at the end of the day they are there at the behest of the supporters club membership.

The Trust are also in a similar position to some degree,but their main aim surely is to represent the fans, even if that is against the club's lead, and whilst far less of their membership travel to away games issues such as this should help them to have a voice and garner grass root support. They belong to a national body responsible for setting up football club Trusts, surely they could all sing off the same hymn sheet and get some action.

Do Leeds have a supporters Trust, can they help us to get some fair play for fans.

I'm sure the FSF will get involved and that can only be good, all groups should be bombarding the Football League and the media.

This isn't me having a dig at our Trust, because I think there is a massive need for one, but it's just the areas it works in that gather little support and interest. Perhaps if they had a different approach and appealed to the things that mattered more to the fan base, then possibly more would come forward and change would occur organically so to speak, until then, fans like me will show their apathy, moan, but do little else to achieve change. It really is a catch 22 and the reality is, if we feel that strongly about something, then do something positive.

For all my criticism about the way the Trust is run unless i and others are prepared to put up, then perhaps we should shut up, but it's to easy and tempting to sit on our lap tops moaning and groaning, but doing f**k all else,. To those that give their time and effort to Trust matters, I take my hat off, but I will still moan and hope for change, whilst like the majority, do little if anything to work for change.

I know there's a lot of contradictions in my own post, but that's just my opinion, I do like to think I see most things from both sides, but it's a bit like politics, those that tend to complain about our Government the most, never even voted in the first place, and they will simply say it's pointless.

Complex lot, aren't we

Just for clarity , the club is well aware of the Trust board`s view that the restrictions Leeds are trying to impose on travelling fans is totally unfair and in direct breach of their promises made at the time CCFC reduced restrictions on their fans when they visited CCS this season. And we are delighted that Wayne and others at the club are taking such a strong stance on the matter through the League etc.

The Trust has also made both Supporters Direct (the national umbrella organisation for all Trusts)) and Leeds United Trust aware of the problem and sought their support in getting the restrictions lifted.

Hopefully , the Football Supporters Federation , in which both Vince and Corky have senior positions , will also be contributing as a result of their prompting.

Not sure what else you expect us to do. It is certainly not our role to tell individual supporters whether or not they should attend the game (nor is it yours) - it is a personal decision for each individual.

Keith

P.S not sure where your comment comes from about far less of the Trust membership attending away games.Far less than who? I know from personal conversations with several that I have met that they are regular away travellers. Do you have an analysis of our membership that I don`t that says differently or was it just a throwaway comment on your part without any foundation in fact?

Read the post again Keith, i did state that the main aim of the CCSC is to support the club, the biggest part for their membership is made up of people who utilise the travel facilities organised by this first class organisation.
Where as this isn't the primary function of the Trust, hence far fewer of their membership travel away, would you disagree with that?

I did also say that the one of the Trust's main aims should be to represent the fans even if it's not in support of the club's wishes at times, hence away travel is not down to them, but representing the fans who are getting messed around by such control measures, in my eyes should be on of the areas they should be all over like a rash.

My post was put up with a constructive aim not destructive negative aim, hence me bringing up the contradictions in my own personal views and post, perhaps there are no easy answers to the lack of support for the Trust, perhaps that's how some prefer it, but my opinion is until they look more at things that affect your broad majority of the fan base, and start speaking and helping all Cardiff fans rather than just those that have taken out a membership of the Trust, then perhaps progress will be minimal if any.


Do I think we need a Trust, yes I do, but i do believe it should be there to look after the needs that are applicable to the grass root fan, even if they are seen by some as foul mouthed knuckle dragging law breaking drunken hooligans.

But your initial post was quite clearly having yet another go at the Trust on your part , suggesting (wrongly) that the Trust was doing nothing about the Leeds ticketing position as well as criticising its efforts to generate new fans for the club from the local ethnic communities. I interpret that as a destructive negative aim despite your (somewhat muddled) subsequent post.

I still have no idea on what you are basing your claim that fewer Trust members travel to away games than other fans. What data do you have on who are Trust members , how many of them are also CCSC members and travel away on their or other travel group coaches, how many travel independently etc? I have no such data but have no reason to believe that Trust members are not as regular away supporters as anyone else. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what information you have that suggests differently?

Have you been drinking when you read or answer these post keith
I didn't say the Trust was doing nothing about Leeds tickets, but if they were doing something then possibly they should be telling people and this may stimulate interest, it's no coincidence that some res-ponders said they din't even know the Trust was still running.

And I didn't criticise the Trust actions with the Somali integration group and Islamic brotherhood, in fact i you read my post I said the actions were commendable, it's just not the area in my opinion that will stimulate interest in our fan base or attract new members to the Trust and strengthen it's position. As I stated possibly that role would be better filled by community leaders, but again, just my opinion, not a criticism.

But as for the claim that the Trust's members have fewer members that travel to away games than other fans, if you read it again I was making the comparison to the supporters club who tend to arrange the travel for a huge section of our away support and who's members join up with that in mind.
The Trust is not a travel organiser, don't know where your coming from in truth, I'm sure most other people will see the point I was making.

And as for my muddled subsequent post, didn't I admit that it was full of contradictions, and that stands, I can see both sides, but find it frustrating that the Trust miss out on opportunities to strengthen their position by appealing to the grass roots of our fan base, with issues that are more relevant to them in their eyes.
Hope this helps you.