Swansea in Play Offs by Default ?

So we go to court next week and it is quite simple 'pay up or wind up'.

The club has to go to court and pay the tax bill which on March 10th stood at £1.9million, now that figure is considerably more and the Judge sitting in the high court has told the club ' May 5th you pay or you will be liquidated ' . The Judge will not consider administration this is beyond that, it will be finished, just like Merthyr Tydfil.

And in that situation there will be another team entering the play offs by default and that team will be the 7th placed team which at present will be Swansea City. How would that feel ?

For me it could not get any worse, it would be agony to see our club being wound up and top that with the Jacks taking our place for a shot at the Premiership.

These next 7 days are undoubtedly the most important and possibly the most agonising 7 days this club and us fans have ever faced. I cannot imagine life without Cardiff City, all season we have heard that a football league club will go out of business, possibly a few clubs, but I have never seriously considered that could be us. But we are 7 days away from exactly that because despite any agreements or collusions that have taken place we cannot deny the bill has not been settled.

Despite what Peter Ridsdale has said previously, that Sam Hammam has threatened to put the club into administration ( which I have never believed ), even so administration would still have left us with the club as we know it, but Liquidation would leave us with nothing you b*stard. Peter Ridsdale can make up his own self appraisal for when he finally leaves this club but the one thing that will remain forever and day Peter is, you have taken this club to within 7 days of being history, put that on your CV and see how you get on.

I could go on about Peter Ridsdale but I wont as you all know his failings and now it is about the hope we have in the Malaysians coming through and literally saving this club from extinction, I have been told today by people close to the deal that they are hopeful that TG will sign the necessary paperwork on Friday and an announcement could be made on Friday or over the weekend.

CARL it is unthinkable for us!

we would not be wound up straight away HMRC will have to appoint an administrator, we would still be in the playoffs and if we get promoted our points deduction would start next year, we have way too much collateral to be wound up

Ah cheer up Carl, could be worse.

You could be a lady whose just been monkey faced by baker and has her period the weekend of the playoff final and promised her mate she'll wear a white thong and white skirt.

Hmmm, rugby never leaves ones blood no matter how much one tries.

Sad reading that is Carl..

Having saw my club vanish - you've no idea what it feels like or what it does to you.

The heart really is ripped out of you.

I'm confident none of you will find out though

if we dont pay up we dont deserve to be in the play offs.

we would not be wound up straight away HMRC will have to appoint an administrator, we would still be in the playoffs and if we get promoted our points deduction would start next year, we have way too much collateral to be wound up

Baz the Judge made it quite clear it, the club would be liquidated.

its not up to him, legallly we have a right to enter administration, look at the assets that the club has, HMRC hold the trump card

GENERAL LIQUIDATION QUERIES


What does liquidation mean?

Liquidation is a formal procedure whereby a liquidator is appointed to ‘wind-up’ the affairs of a limited company, which involves selling the company’s assets and paying creditors. When all the assets have been sold and the money distributed, the company is dissolved, which means that it no longer exists.



How do you put a company into liquidation?

There are two ways to liquidate a company:

Compulsory liquidation: this is where someone, usually a creditor, presents a petition to the court and gives evidence that they are owed money which the company cannot pay, and so the court makes a winding-up order. The Official Receiver is normally appointed liquidator of the company. It is usual for a creditor to instruct a solicitor to act on his behalf because of the legal nature of the proceedings.
Voluntary liquidation: this is where the company itself decides to go into liquidation, usually because it cannot pay its debts, and an insolvency practitioner is appointed liquidator of the company.


How much does it cost?
If you want to put a company into compulsory liquidation, you have to pay £715 deposit to the court, plus a £190 court fee, plus the cost of advertising the petition in the London Gazette and any costs of instructing a solicitor. If you want to put a company into voluntary liquidation, the costs vary depending on which insolvency practitioner you use.

The forms to put a company into compulsory liquidation can be found on our website at www.insolvency.gov.uk in ‘Forms’ and then ‘Forms for England and Wales’. Alternatively you can complete the winding up petition online via the Online Forms Service by going into ‘Do it online’ on the website.



What happens to the company directors?

When a company goes into liquidation, the directors cease to have control of the company, and the liquidator takes over. The directors have a duty to co-operate with the liquidator to identify all assets and liabilities of the company and provide details of its affairs. The liquidator has to make a return under the Company Directors’ Disqualification Act 1986 about the directors’ conduct in relation to the company.



Click HERE to view the Compulsory Liquidation General Overview flowchart.



LIQUIDATION

Liquidation is a legal process whereby a limited company is 'wound-up' and eventually it is dissolved, which means it ceases to exist.



There are three types of liquidation :



1. Members' voluntary liquidation: This is where the shareholders of a company decide to go into liquidation, and there are sufficient assets to pay all the debts of the company, i.e. the company is solvent.



2. Creditors' voluntary liquidation: This is where the shareholders of a company decide to go into liquidation, but there are not enough assets to pay all the creditors, i.e. the company is insolvent.



3. Compulsory liquidation: This where a person, usually a creditor, petitions the court to make a winding-up order.



The Role of the Official Receiver and the Liquidator



The liquidator is the person responsible for managing the liquidation, in particular realising all assets and sharing out the proceeds amongst the creditors.



In voluntary liquidations, the liquidator is an insolvency practitioner (IP), and the Official Receiver has no involvement.



In compulsory liquidations, the Official Receiver is usually appointed liquidator on the making of the winding-up order. In addition to his responsibilities as liquidator, the Official Receiver has further statutory duties, which include investigating the company's business activities and reporting to creditors. The Official Receiver also decides whether to call a meeting of creditors in order to appoint an IP as liquidator in his place - if an IP is appointed liquidator in the place of the Official Receiver, the Official Receiver still retains his investigatory and reporting duties.



There are cases where an IP is appointed liquidator on the making of a winding-up order, and in such cases therefore, the Official Receiver only has investigatory and reporting duties.

Back to Index

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/compulsory ... dation.htm

we would not be wound up straight away HMRC will have to appoint an administrator, we would still be in the playoffs and if we get promoted our points deduction would start next year, we have way too much collateral to be wound up

Baz the Judge made it quite clear it, the club would be liquidated.

We really need Since 62 to explain the process, but I suppose even though we would be a solvent liquidation (we have more assets than debts we just can't pay our bills as and when they fall) the club would have to stop trading (i.e. playing) from the 5 May if we were put into liquidation.

BTW We are due prize money from finishing 4th in the Championship, does anyone know how much we get?

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/compulsoryliquidation/whatiscompulsoryliquidation.htm

Baz I think that all refers to the options a company has before it is liquidated by a Judge. If we took no action before the 5 May and didn't pay the tax bill we would cease to trade.

However, I remember asking Since 62 if the directors could put us into administration at any time before the 5 May and he said yes they could.

Whilst Administration would be painful the club would continue to exist.

Usually in this situation I believe any league prize money is withheld from the club if it owes money to other clubs.

and we lose points next season upto -25 i think

we would not be wound up straight away HMRC will have to appoint an administrator, we would still be in the playoffs and if we get promoted our points deduction would start next year, we have way too much collateral to be wound up

Baz the Judge made it quite clear it, the club would be liquidated.

We really need Since 62 to explain the process, but I suppose even though we would be a solvent liquidation (we have more assets than debts we just can't pay our bills as and when they fall) the club would have to stop trading (i.e. playing) from the 5 May if we were put into liquidation.

BTW We are due prize money from finishing 4th in the Championship, does anyone know how much we get?

Are we do add ons from Rogers transfer to Brum ?

Usually in this situation I believe any league prize money is withheld from the club if it owes money to other clubs.

We owe money to the taxman not other football clubs.

Are we do add ons from Rogers transfer to Brum ?

Correct at least £1m due to that transfer and some cash from Cameron Jerome.

Usually in this situation I believe any league prize money is withheld from the club if it owes money to other clubs.

We owe money to the taxman not other football clubs.

Almost certainly Charlton will still be owed money fro the Hudson transfer for starters as it's rare for teams to pay the full amount up front. There's probably others too I 'd have though

Usually in this situation I believe any league prize money is withheld from the club if it owes money to other clubs.

We owe money to the taxman not other football clubs.

Almost certainly Charlton will still be owed money fro the Hudson transfer for starters as it's rare for teams to pay the full amount up front. There's probably others too I 'd have though

No a deal was done on that, would have beneficial for all parties but Ridders fucked that right up and cost CCFC an extra, roughly £3k a week.

Very good points there Carl and very Worrying Borley says its still very Sensitive at the moment and TG has not signed yet.

dont know what all the fuss is about - TG just rang me - and told me this weekend - there will be good news, and the tax bill has already reached a payment scheme to cover the debts.

Its all gravy!

POSITIVITY! (wheres Blazing when you need some backup!)

dont know what all the fuss is about - TG just rang me - and told me this weekend - there will be good news, and the tax bill has already reached a payment scheme to cover the debts.

Its all gravy!

POSITIVITY! (wheres Blazing when you need some backup!)

AAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHH !!!

This whole situation is driving me nuts!

Do we have any idea why this deal is now at a "delicate" stage? What is the hold up?

Is Ridsdale the problem or are there other difficulties to be overcome? Can we take comfort from Merlin's email?

How many questions can I ask in one post?

BOLLOCKS ! I just want this sorted NOW !

I wonder if our excellent form has actually been a hindrance to the takeover? Is the fact that the club within touching distance of the Premier League making the takeover more difficult?

If I had much hair left I would be tearing it out by now !

AAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHH !!!

This whole situation is driving me nuts!

Do we have any idea why this deal is now at a "delicate" stage? What is the hold up?

Is Ridsdale the problem or are there other difficulties to be overcome? Can we take comfort from Merlin's email?

How many questions can I ask in one post?

BOLLOCKS ! I just want this sorted NOW !

I wonder if our excellent form has actually been a hindrance to the takeover? Is the fact that the club within touching distance of the Premier League making the takeover more difficult?

If I had much hair left I would be tearing it out by now !

yes, reaching the play-offs has made things much more complicated

dont know what all the fuss is about - TG just rang me - and told me this weekend - there will be good news, and the tax bill has already reached a payment scheme to cover the debts.

Its all gravy!

POSITIVITY! (wheres Blazing when you need some backup!)

LOOK INTO MY EYES THINK POSITIVE ALL WILL BE FINE - PREMIERSHIP HERE WE COME!!

pr would be a prize idiot if he went in to court with no money, if they havnt the money we will have to go into admin before court date and there is nothing the hmrc or the judge can do about it we will be covered by law

we would not be wound up straight away HMRC will have to appoint an administrator, we would still be in the playoffs and if we get promoted our points deduction would start next year, we have way too much collateral to be wound up

Baz the Judge made it quite clear it, the club would be liquidated.

We really need Since 62 to explain the process, but I suppose even though we would be a solvent liquidation (we have more assets than debts we just can't pay our bills as and when they fall) the club would have to stop trading (i.e. playing) from the 5 May if we were put into liquidation.

BTW We are due prize money from finishing 4th in the Championship, does anyone know how much we get?

I`ll try.

Basically , if the debt has not been paid in full or HMRC do not confirm to the judge at or before the hearing on 5 May that they have withdrawn their winding up petition , the the judge will grant the winding up order and put the company (i.e. the club) immediately into compulsory liquidation.

That would be a total disaster for the club as all player contracts would become the property of the League rather than the club and the club would cease to trade and exist. The exception would be if someone came in soon after the event and paid off all the debts in full (with interest) - but they would still have to pursuade the League that the player assets could then be transferred back to the club. This exception is almost certainly not going to happen - if someone was willing/able to pay off all the debts in full , they would have done so before now.

As you say , there is still the option of going for the lesser evil of Administration. Again , because of the club`s track record of broken promises , a judge would take a hell of a lot of persuading to grant such an order as promises of "jam tomorrow" have already been made and broken to HMRC and other creditors.From my direct experience of this , it would almost certainly take evidence such as proof of major funds lodged by the new investors legally pledged to pay towards the debt to convince the judge.

I really think that this takeover/deal with HMRC and other major creditors has to be concluded and confirmed in writing before the court hearing next week to avoid a last minute rush into Administration (at best). The Malaysians know this , and they also know that the current owners and major creditors know it and that they can`t afford the risk of losing everything in an Administration or liquidation. I suspect that is why the negotiations are ongoing and smack a bit of brinksmanship as the potential new investors seem to hold most of the cards.

As the court hearing is before the play-offs there is not even the option for the current owners to gamble (and it is a hell of a risky gamble) of success and promotion as an alternative to a sale without them putting very substantial sums of money into the pot themselves (several millions on top of paying ongoing wage and other running costs) .

I stick to my view , stated on here and elsewhere , that they will acquire all the shares and settle all the liabilities for a total figure of no more than £20m.A good deal for them , and the only realistic one in town for the current stakeholders in the club.

Your comment about the club being "solvent" on the basis of having more assets than liabilities is interesting , but it doesn`t actually work in practice.Firstly , that "surplus" would only be arithmetically correct if the value of the stadium was artificially inflated in the clubs books from its actual cost to the club of about £23m to a figure more like £60m. There is no real basis for such a big upward valuation that would be accepted by auditors in the absence of the support of an independent profesional valuation at such a figure (which I understand the club has been unable to obtain).Secondly , to be able to do a solvent liquidation ,the club would have to prove that it has either paid all its debts in full or will do so without fail within 12 months.That`s why solvent liquidations are only normally used to wind up companies that have finished the purpose for which they were set up (e.g. a company set up to construct a building site which is now finished,or one to organise the London Marathon or another event).

Hope this helps

Keith

We really need Since 62 to explain the process, but I suppose even though we would be a solvent liquidation (we have more assets than debts we just can't pay our bills as and when they fall) the club would have to stop trading (i.e. playing) from the 5 May if we were put into liquidation.

BTW We are due prize money from finishing 4th in the Championship, does anyone know how much we get?

I`ll try.

Basically , if the debt has not been paid in full or HMRC do not confirm to the judge at or before the hearing on 5 May that they have withdrawn their winding up petition , the the judge will grant the winding up order and put the company (i.e. the club) immediately into compulsory liquidation.

That would be a total disaster for the club as all player contracts would become the property of the League rather than the club and the club would cease to trade and exist. The exception would be if someone came in soon after the event and paid off all the debts in full (with interest) - but they would still have to pursuade the League that the player assets could then be transferred back to the club. This exception is almost certainly not going to happen - if someone was willing/able to pay off all the debts in full , they would have done so before now.

As you say , there is still the option of going for the lesser evil of Administration. Again , because of the club`s track record of broken promises , a judge would take a hell of a lot of persuading to grant such an order as promises of "jam tomorrow" have already been made and broken to HMRC and other creditors.From my direct experience of this , it would almost certainly take evidence such as proof of major funds lodged by the new investors legally pledged to pay towards the debt to convince the judge.

I really think that this takeover/deal with HMRC and other major creditors has to be concluded and confirmed in writing before the court hearing next week to avoid a last minute rush into Administration (at best). The Malaysians know this , and they also know that the current owners and major creditors know it and that they can`t afford the risk of losing everything in an Administration or liquidation. I suspect that is why the negotiations are ongoing and smack a bit of brinksmanship as the potential new investors seem to hold most of the cards.

As the court hearing is before the play-offs there is not even the option for the current owners to gamble (and it is a hell of a risky gamble) of success and promotion as an alternative to a sale without them putting very substantial sums of money into the pot themselves (several millions on top of paying ongoing wage and other running costs) .

I stick to my view , stated on here and elsewhere , that they will acquire all the shares and settle all the liabilities for a total figure of no more than £20m.A good deal for them , and the only realistic one in town for the current stakeholders in the club.

Your comment about the club being "solvent" on the basis of having more assets than liabilities is interesting , but it doesn`t actually work in practice.Firstly , that "surplus" would only be arithmetically correct if the value of the stadium was artificially inflated in the clubs books from its actual cost to the club of about £23m to a figure more like £60m. There is no real basis for such a big upward valuation that would be accepted by auditors in the absence of the support of an independent profesional valuation at such a figure (which I understand the club has been unable to obtain).Secondly , to be able to do a solvent liquidation ,the club would have to prove that it has either paid all its debts in full or will do so without fail within 12 months.That`s why solvent liquidations are only normally used to wind up companies that have finished the purpose for which they were set up (e.g. a company set up to construct a building site which is now finished,or one to organise the London Marathon or another event).

Hope this helps

Keith

Sorry keith - after reading all of that - i find the following post by blazing to be much more informative and trustworthy and i'll keep my faith that the following will happen!!!

LOOK INTO MY EYES THINK POSITIVE ALL WILL BE FINE - PREMIERSHIP HERE WE COME!!

Thanks Keith. Was very informative post!