I HOPE SAM DON'T COME BACK

I hope Sam don't come back because the Malaysians can get evrything under control, i.e. pay all the debts, Langstones included, buy the players that we need to take us forward, run the academy properly and ensure the club has a long term stable future.

I hope we have a medai dept that keeps us all up to date and informed.
I hope we have Commercial dept that makes the club a fortune.
I hope we have a stadium that rocks every week with the best atmosphere in the UK
I hope we have a CEO that knows how to communicat with fans, press and the business and football world.
I hope we can look forward to reading the papers every day becaues we have made headlines for the right reasons.
I hope to see outr fans get treated failry at home and away games and like human beings.
I hope we have a food and drink outlet that sells good products at a fair price.

But whilst I will never stop hoping, I am starting to have serious doubts that it will ever happen, if the current regime PMG included can come up with the dream then great bring it on and I'll support it, until then I will criticise and push for improvement, I will complain if I think things aren't right. I am allowed to, I am a customer.

If all this can happen and Sam stays away because it's happened then great, but until I see at least signs that its going to happen then I for one will pray every day that Sam still stays interested and is prepared to come back if needed, because whilst he was far from perfect and a nightmare at times, he still gave me the best 6 years at the club, he enthused me and got me excited,motivated and allowed me to believe.

Gwyn I cant agree more, let this lot sort all the problems out, most of the Directors made the mess that we are currently in, in the first place, they ALLOWED THE RIDDLER A FREE REIGN and NOT ONCE DID THEY TRY and STOP HIM.

I hope that my football club survives.

I'mnot SAms number 1 fan but if him coming back makes our club stronger then great.

I hope Sam don't come back because the Malaysians can get evrything under control, i.e. pay all the debts, Langstones included, buy the players that we need to take us forward, run the academy properly and ensure the club has a long term stable future.

I hope we have a medai dept that keeps us all up to date and informed.
I hope we have Commercial dept that makes the club a fortune.
I hope we have a stadium that rocks every week with the best atmosphere in the UK
I hope we have a CEO that knows how to communicat with fans, press and the business and football world.
I hope we can look forward to reading the papers every day becaues we have made headlines for the right reasons.
I hope to see outr fans get treated failry at home and away games and like human beings.
I hope we have a food and drink outlet that sells good products at a fair price.

But whilst I will never stop hoping, I am starting to have serious doubts that it will ever happen, if the current regime PMG included can come up with the dream then great bring it on and I'll support it, until then I will criticise and push for improvement, I will complain if I think things aren't right. I am allowed to, I am a customer.

If all this can happen and Sam stays away because it's happened then great, but until I see at least signs that its going to happen then I for one will pray every day that Sam still stays interested and is prepared to come back if needed, because whilst he was far from perfect and a nightmare at times, he still gave me the best 6 years at the club, he enthused me and got me excited,motivated and allowed me to believe.

Why the obsession with Sam though ?

Do you feel any of the things you'hoped' for above were in place when he was here ?
Because i don't -apart form the stadium rocking occassionally, which was as good toward the end of last season as it ever was.

Why not see what the Malaysians can do. They are only just involved and I'd put money on the fact that if they don't get the support they want form the rest of the board, and paid management they will move them out.

They have only been involved for 6 weeks, we gave Sam 6 years before real questions were asked of him -and the answers weren't good.

If Sam has hard cash to put in and has changed to become more democratic and pragmatic then I'm pleased that TG is meeting with him, all avenues need to be searched to improve the clubs financial position, but if this means that Borley (as you know Borley is NOT a fan of Sam) Guy, Isaacs (who again Sam made an enemy of) and Whiteley leave then that £12m talked about in the echo would be swallowed up paying these guys what they are owed -without even buying their shares back.

Cardiff City FC are going nowhere whilst PMG vultures remain part of the club and involved in day-to-day running of what is becoming a farce.

I am still waiting for a 'buy next years season ticket' advertising very soon, bound to happen

Cardiff City FC are going nowhere whilst PMG vultures remain part of the club and involved in day-to-day running of what is becoming a farce.

I am still waiting for a 'buy next years season ticket' advertising very soon, bound to happen

let these robbing bastards continue, the malaysians will leave in the end.

They wont let them rob us. They dont get there billions by being nieve Chief. If they see any one not doing there job then they will be history. Thats a cert

good post gwyn, like i have said i am not one of sams biggest fans but at the mopment we need someone to bring some sense to the running of our beloved club, if its sam so be it we will all have to wait and see what happens

Gwyn I cant agree more, let this lot sort all the problems out, most of the Directors made the mess that we are currently in, in the first place.

So remind me Annis what were the debt levels when Hammam left?! Is Hammam innocent now, all his vast over spending forgotten.

I have no idea what the fascination is with Sam. Can you really see him coming back and working underneath someone? Can you see him coming back and only speaking when he is instructed too and not rounding up all his mates and tell him the ins and outs of the cats ass?

Its been mentioned before but what's the change in stance with PMG all of a sudden. People were 'sniped' (to use your word) when people were questioning PMG before Ridsdale left. Now they along with Gethin Jenkins are the devil in disguise.

There are plenty of people out there who could work as a football consultant, yet not cause the divide between fans and a rift in the boardroom... The fact is Sam Hammam is not one of them.

The debt level was 24 million and the club was left with 30 million pound plus of player assetts, planning permission that needed clearing, and we were top of the Championship at the half way stage with six point clear.

We had a wage billl of 6 million pound yet we had more players and a reserve team.

The money from assets as been used and not a penny to reduce the debt, so in reality the debt could have been 2 pence or 2 billion pound for that matter, it ain't been touched.

How much of that debt was wasted on planning applications, plans and design costs, Ninian park up grade, academy, players needed like Kav Thorney, gabby, Loovens etc to get us up there.

When Sam came we had no ticket officea as such, you couldn't buy a ticket on the phone, we had no commercial dept as such and as for a media dept, well think back, \Ninian park was having seection by section closed down thru safety issues and the capacity was getting to the sizz of a cinema, perhaps thats where some of the money went, rather than on helicoptors and huge bonus's.

Sorry Gwyn, but when Sam left our wage bill was around £10million . Our total turnover was about £8million. He ran the club that way the whole time he was here and that's why he left us millions in debt. Then the Riddler came in and did the same. They are both reckless fools( or worse). I don't want either of them to have anything to do with our club again.

The debt level was 24 million and the club was left with 30 million pound plus of player assetts, planning permission that needed clearing, and we were top of the Championship at the half way stage with six point clear.

We had a wage billl of 6 million pound yet we had more players and a reserve team.

The money from assets as been used and not a penny to reduce the debt, so in reality the debt could have been 2 pence or 2 billion pound for that matter, it ain't been touched.

How much of that debt was wasted on planning applications, plans and design costs, Ninian park up grade, academy, players needed like Kav Thorney, gabby, Loovens etc to get us up there.

When Sam came we had no ticket officea as such, you couldn't buy a ticket on the phone, we had no commercial dept as such and as for a media dept, well think back, \Ninian park was having seection by section closed down thru safety issues and the capacity was getting to the sizz of a cinema, perhaps thats where some of the money went, rather than on helicoptors and huge bonus's.

I can guarantee to you Gwyn that the debt was far more than £24m.

Playing assets ? Well the current squad was valued at £30m+ and just like then they were over-valued.

Extracts from may 2006 accounts, 6 months before Sam left..

Turnover £8m (2005 - £8.2m)
Cost of sales £10.3m (mainly wage bill- £8.1m including n.i, mind you this doesnt mean you are wrong that the playing budget before NI may well have been £6m that season - we had sold many of our best players in 2007 after signing Chopra and McPhail it went up to £9.6m) (2005 - £12.7m)
Admin costs £3.1m (2005 £5.3m)

Profit on player sales £6.7m (2005 £3.8m)

We were selling to survive.

Fixed Assets - £3.7m (2005 £3.4m)
Current Assets £7.4m (2005 £5.4m)

This will include the player values (as per the books) don't foerget this was after 'black Friday, and during Jones rebuilding of the squad - which he seems to get very little credit for.

Current Liabilities £10.3m (2005 £9m)
Long-term Liabilities £27.3m (£27.2m)

The clubs financial position was dire. Very dire.

Ridsdlae may have made it worse in some ways, but surely you aren't trying to defend Sam's financial management of the club.


Whats done is done, though.

if Sam can come to an agreement over the debt then brilliant.

I can't see though how he could fit in with the running of the club. I'm all ears though to a dispassionate assessment of how this could work. Like the rest of you I just want the best for City.

Sam new he was paying out more than was coming in, but the plan was after being promised by the Council that stadium would be granted in two years but six years later still waiting, the overspend would have been covered by money from the retail etc.
Unfortunately Russell Goodway got voted off and Sam was vnever going to get planning from the other people no matter what the financial position was.

Isn't that what we are hoping the Malysians will do this year, because if we only pay out wages that our income justifies we are going to be in the shit. Season ticket money spent, food and beverage money spent etc etc, income streams, more like income trickle. Our two thousnad walk up audience are going to have to spend a lot of money to pay this years wages. lol

I am convinced that if Russell hadn't been voted off, things would have been so so different and for the better, but hey having a centre back that could defend in the play off final could have meant that we'd now be planning on playing Arsenal, not Burnley.

Sam new he was paying out more than was coming in, but the plan was after being promised by the Council that stadium would be granted in two years but six years later still waiting, the overspend would have been covered by money from the retail etc.
Unfortunately Russell Goodway got voted off and Sam was vnever going to get planning from the other people no matter what the financial position was.

Isn't that what we are hoping the Malysians will do this year, because if we only pay out wages that our income justifies we are going to be in the shit. Season ticket money spent, food and beverage money spent etc etc, income streams, more like income trickle. Our two thousnad walk up audience are going to have to spend a lot of money to pay this years wages. lol

I am convinced that if Russell hadn't been voted off, things would have been so so different and for the better, but hey having a centre back that could defend in the play off final could have meant that we'd now be planning on playing Arsenal, not Burnley.

Blaming the centre backs for the play-off defeat is as bad as blaming PMG for the debts.

All 3 goals were conceived elsewhere on the park.

1. free kick (given away by McPhail)
2. Corner dropped by keeper
3. Whittingham failed to make a challenge when he should have, and then 20 yards later when he did, he succeeded only in kicking it away from the defenders.

Personally I beleive the reaosn we lost wasn't even this, it was the lack of cover for Bothroyd, which I'd been moaning about since June 2009.


PMG have done well out of the club, but wouldn't have had the chance if Sam had tied it up earlier. Whether it was donn to the council not playing ball, or stupid fees paid for Gavin Gordon, Alan Lee, Peter Thorne, Andy Campbell, Rhys Weston, Chris Barker.... then he still has to carry the buck. Don't forget he was even the man who brought PR to the club - although to start off with I think PR did a good job and only started going mad AFTER Sam left.

Gwyn, you seem to feel very strongly about this - although (correct me if I'm wrong), but didn't you feel cheated by Sam after Black Friday.

Has your opinion about Sam changed, why and how do you think this could work with the divisive influence Sam would have inside and outside the boardroom ? Wouldn't this lead to PMG, Borley and Isaacs wanting their money back - sooner rather than later ?

Why does it have to be Sam and not just a football man from elsewhere, with a lower profile ?

I hope we have a medai dept that keeps us all up to date and informed.
I hope we have Commercial dept that makes the club a fortune.
I hope we have a stadium that rocks every week with the best atmosphere in the UK
I hope we have a CEO that knows how to communicat with fans, press and the business and football world.
I hope we can look forward to reading the papers every day becaues we have made headlines for the right reasons.
I hope to see outr fans get treated failry at home and away games and like human beings.
I hope we have a food and drink outlet that sells good products at a fair price.

While Sam was here, the media department was a laughing stock.

While Sam was here, the commercial department was non-existent.

While Sam was here, crowds at Ninian sometimes dipped under the 9,000 mark for Championship matches and the atmosphere was a flat as a pancake.

While Sam was here, he employed David Temme and Peter Ridsdale as his CEO's.

While Sam was here, the press was often full of horror stories about the club's financial plight.

While Sam was here, our fans were treated like shit at away games. So much so that the RAMS boycotted a match at Leeds in protest at such treatment.

While Sam was here, the catering facilities were a joke.

Why on earth do you believe any of the above things would improve if Sam returned?

sugarman(tlg) you did not say any of that when you were part of the inner circle and out on your many jolies with him, you are a back stabber. you said you spoke to him last week did you tell him then ?

As it happens, I spoke to Sam for over an hour on Thursday evening. I told him I don't believe his return would be a good thing for the club, the fans or importantly for the man himself (that's a stance I've consistently maintained ever since he left). I also asked him how the logistics of his proposed return would work. He couldn't supply me with any answers.

sugarman(tlg) you did not say any of that when you were part of the inner circle and out on your many jolies with him, you are a back stabber. you said you spoke to him last week did you tell him then ?

As it happens, I spoke to Sam for over an hour on Thursday evening. I told him I don't believe his return would be a good thing for the club, the fans or importantly for the man himself (that's a stance I've consistently maintained ever since he left). I also asked him how the logistics of his proposed return would work. He couldn't supply me with any answers.

Sam couldnt provide any answers,WERE TALKING about SAM, Dave get in the real world.

Sam couldnt provide any answers,WERE TALKING about SAM, Dave get in the real world.

I'm very firmly in the real world. Others, however, appear to have their heads in the clouds at present.

Steve Borley summed it up nicely yesterday when he said: "I think people are deluding themselves. I think it (TG and Sam) is a dreamer's team."

I blame time, Im getting to a age where I can start going back and I hope I end up in the late 70's, things were so much better then

Cardiff City FC are going nowhere whilst PMG vultures remain part of the club and involved in day-to-day running of what is becoming a farce.

I am still waiting for a 'buy next years season ticket' advertising very soon, bound to happen

I agree 2011/12 tickets will be on sale soon and as I don't finishing paying for this season's ticket until September then I could be in a situation where I have 2 direct debits, one for the 2010/11 season and one for 2011/12 coming out at the same time

While Sam was here, the media department was a laughing stock.While Sam was here, the commercial department was non-existent.

Before Sam we had neither, yes both departments under Sam were far from perfect, but they were much improved whilst he was here. Perhaps he should have put more money into these areas and run up an even bigger debt.

While Sam was here, crowds at Ninian sometimes dipped under the 9,000 mark for Championship matches and the atmosphere was a flat as a pancake.

And you blame Sam for crowds under 9,000, I blame me and you and our fellow fans, many of us had said if we got into the top divisions our crowds would be huge, we the fans could have done more to help with bigger crowds and more finance, but we didn't and I can understand, we had been through years of crap and false dawns and lots of us couldn't or wouldn't believe things were changing, so I don't see how you can point the finger at Sam for low crowds and bad atmosphere.


While Sam was here, he employed David Temme and Peter Ridsdale as his CEO's.

Temme was allready CEO, the mistake Sam made was to leave him in place rather than bring his own team with him, as for Peter Ridsale it was a mistake in my eyes and I have no time for BACK STABBERS, but is this the same PR who you were defending up until the day he left.


While Sam was here, the press was often full of horror stories about the club's financial plight.[/color

Of course there were horror stories, there was a lot of problems, cash flow was erratic and delay after delay to the stadium was causing chaos, Sam has to accept some of the blame for that, siding with Russell Goodway, calling Rodney berman a small Scottish poof, refusing to let the rugger buggers into the club, lots of things he should have done differently.

][color=#0000FF]While Sam was here, our fans were treated like shit at away games. So much so that the RAMS boycotted a match at Leeds in protest at such treatment.

Of course we were, did you expect the countries police to say, Oh this nice stable man Sam Hamman is here now, these notorious Cardiff City fans have all changed overnight, lets treat them nicely now.Come on Dave what did you expect to happen, Sam took a totally unique way in dealing with our problesm and image and it was working, our arrest figures went down year on year, not every police force then or now are ever going to give us the time of day, but it was a time of improveement whilst he was here.

While Sam was here, the catering facilities were a joke.

Now this is my favourite one, can you remember what facilities we had before he came, keep it real, and yes with unlimited budgets i'm sure he'd have done more, but he's allready getting slated for the dent, you'd have doubled it if you had your way.

Why on earth do you believe any of the above things would improve if Sam returned?

Because they had all improved vastly the first time he came to us, people have short memories, your worse than Annis on about the good old days,I loved them but facilities and treatment we had was nothing short of babaric, my attitude whilst Sam was here was to try and get him to improve things for us by chipping away at him, possibly that's what being a member of the inner circle meant to me, what did it mean to you Dave.

While Sam was here, the media department was a laughing stock.While Sam was here, the commercial department was non-existent.

Before Sam we had neither, yes both departments under Sam were far from perfect, but they were much improved whilst he was here. Perhaps he should have put more money into these areas and run up an even bigger debt.

While Sam was here, crowds at Ninian sometimes dipped under the 9,000 mark for Championship matches and the atmosphere was a flat as a pancake.

And you blame Sam for crowds under 9,000, I blame me and you and our fellow fans, many of us had said if we got into the top divisions our crowds would be huge, we the fans could have done more to help with bigger crowds and more finance, but we didn't and I can understand, we had been through years of crap and false dawns and lots of us couldn't or wouldn't believe things were changing, so I don't see how you can point the finger at Sam for low crowds and bad atmosphere.


While Sam was here, he employed David Temme and Peter Ridsdale as his CEO's.

Temme was allready CEO, the mistake Sam made was to leave him in place rather than bring his own team with him, as for Peter Ridsale it was a mistake in my eyes and I have no time for BACK STABBERS, but is this the same PR who you were defending up until the day he left.


While Sam was here, the press was often full of horror stories about the club's financial plight.[/color

Of course there were horror stories, there was a lot of problems, cash flow was erratic and delay after delay to the stadium was causing chaos, Sam has to accept some of the blame for that, siding with Russell Goodway, calling Rodney berman a small Scottish poof, refusing to let the rugger buggers into the club, lots of things he should have done differently.

][color=#0000FF]While Sam was here, our fans were treated like shit at away games. So much so that the RAMS boycotted a match at Leeds in protest at such treatment.

Of course we were, did you expect the countries police to say, Oh this nice stable man Sam Hamman is here now, these notorious Cardiff City fans have all changed overnight, lets treat them nicely now.Come on Dave what did you expect to happen, Sam took a totally unique way in dealing with our problesm and image and it was working, our arrest figures went down year on year, not every police force then or now are ever going to give us the time of day, but it was a time of improveement whilst he was here.

While Sam was here, the catering facilities were a joke.

Now this is my favourite one, can you remember what facilities we had before he came, keep it real, and yes with unlimited budgets i'm sure he'd have done more, but he's allready getting slated for the dent, you'd have doubled it if you had your way.

Why on earth do you believe any of the above things would improve if Sam returned?

Because they had all improved vastly the first time he came to us, people have short memories, your worse than Annis on about the good old days,I loved them but facilities and treatment we had was nothing short of babaric, my attitude whilst Sam was here was to try and get him to improve things for us by chipping away at him, possibly that's what being a member of the inner circle meant to me, what did it mean to you Dave.

SPOT ON Gwyn, Every word and line answered

And you blame Sam for crowds under 9,000?

Who said I'm blaming him? I haven't blamed him for any of the things I've highlighted. I've merely pointed out how things were, while you appear to want to paint a far rosier picture of Sam's era than is realistic.

is this the same PR who you were defending up until the day he left.

Pathetic, Gwyn Absolutely pathetic mate. I thought better of you.

my attitude whilst Sam was here was to try and get him to improve things for us by chipping away at him, possibly that's what being a member of the inner circle meant to me, what did it mean to you Dave.

Pretty much the same.

tlg, so were you or not a riddler fan and stood by him like custers last stance

Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!

it was better when it was worse, it was better when didnt have the money to buy a can of disinfectant, but it was better when we had a coach like jmmy andrews, players like joe,toni,willie,adian,andy...............my ccfc is long gone R.I.P.

The King is dead, long live the King.

tlg, so were you or not a riddler fan and stood by him like custers last stance

Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!

yes you were a riddler fan and let him destroy our club, your guilty as charged

you see guys , its these sort of stupid , immature and incorrect statements ...IN OTHER WORDS THE SNIPING !!!!!..that really does some of you no favours whatsoever

for fucks sake , this is getting pathetic

grown men argueing like f*cking kids

I am out of here

its gone beyond now

I hope we have a medai dept that keeps us all up to date and informed.
I hope we have Commercial dept that makes the club a fortune.
I hope we have a stadium that rocks every week with the best atmosphere in the UK
I hope we have a CEO that knows how to communicat with fans, press and the business and football world.
I hope we can look forward to reading the papers every day becaues we have made headlines for the right reasons.
I hope to see outr fans get treated failry at home and away games and like human beings.
I hope we have a food and drink outlet that sells good products at a fair price.



While Sam was here, the media department was a laughing stock.

While Sam was here, the commercial department was non-existent.

While Sam was here, crowds at Ninian sometimes dipped under the 9,000 mark for Championship matches and the atmosphere was a flat as a pancake.

While Sam was here, he employed David Temme and Peter Ridsdale as his CEO's.

While Sam was here, the press was often full of horror stories about the club's financial plight.

While Sam was here, our fans were treated like shit at away games. So much so that the RAMS boycotted a match at Leeds in protest at such treatment.

While Sam was here, the catering facilities were a joke.

Why on earth do you believe any of the above things would improve if Sam returned?The Lone Gunman

Posts: 477
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:50 am
Private messageE-mail The Lone Gunman


I think the point is I said I was hoping that under the Malaysians all these things would come about, I don't think I said thaat under Saam they were perfect.So why the criticism of these areas under sam's regime,as a member of the trust I hope we get more chance to bring things uplike this with the CEO and push to have them improved, we can but hope.

TLG and Eddy please can you BOTH BEHAVE, This is not a childrens playground.

I hope Sam don't come back because the Malaysians can get evrything under control, i.e. pay all the debts, Langstones included, buy the players that we need to take us forward, run the academy properly and ensure the club has a long term stable future.

I hope we have a medai dept that keeps us all up to date and informed.
I hope we have Commercial dept that makes the club a fortune.
I hope we have a stadium that rocks every week with the best atmosphere in the UK
I hope we have a CEO that knows how to communicat with fans, press and the business and football world.
I hope we can look forward to reading the papers every day becaues we have made headlines for the right reasons.
I hope to see outr fans get treated failry at home and away games and like human beings.
I hope we have a food and drink outlet that sells good products at a fair price.

But whilst I will never stop hoping, I am starting to have serious doubts that it will ever happen, if the current regime PMG included can come up with the dream then great bring it on and I'll support it, until then I will criticise and push for improvement, I will complain if I think things aren't right. I am allowed to, I am a customer.

If all this can happen and Sam stays away because it's happened then great, but until I see at least signs that its going to happen then I for one will pray every day that Sam still stays interested and is prepared to come back if needed, because whilst he was far from perfect and a nightmare at times, he still gave me the best 6 years at the club, he enthused me and got me excited,motivated and allowed me to believe.