THE FACTS ARE THERE TO SEE

The pre season tour to Malaysia cancelled - were the real reasons given ?

The remainder of the Chopra deal could not be completed as agreed previously, but now done in installments.

We will soon have an embargo on us .

The remainder of the Hudson deal is still to be completed as agreed previously.

The wages have been late each month in the last 5.

Players bonuses and appearences fees have been asked to be deferred.

We could be back in the high court if we do not pay our tax's.

The club has agreed to meet with Langston to discuss how best to deal with the loan notes that has to be paid in full at the end of this year.

Craig Bellamy was top of Dave Jones' wish list and the club negotiated with Man City to try and bring him in.




All the above has been reported on this forum prior to it becoming public and this is not a ' look at us we know everything ' this is about us telling it as it is, and what frightens a lot of our supporters is the truth because at present the truth is not good to hear. Some sections of fans groups do not want this information put out even though they are fact.

We warned there would be cut backs with the Malaysians when they invested but when the club are telling us they are going for top 2 finishes and we are trying to get Bellamy, I wonder where the uncertainity comes from.

The club are looking to make things more prudent and financially sound but we are still going along the lines of ' pay it later ', is this the work of TG or is this Doug Lee doing is job and working best with tools he got, there is no money in the club and fans are getting confused, because the Malaysians have 100's of millions, some expect them to come in with an open cheque book. They will not work like that and it is down to the other directors at the club to put in as well but as we have said PMG want out of this club and are not putting anything in, so that leaves the Malaysians owning 36.75% and they will not service the debts that they did not create. This club is stilll being run on a day to day basis by PMG's people and not TG, until that changes then we will not see a change in the policy the club currently employ.

What has happened to the list of players Dave Jones handed in, it is obvious to all now that unless the players are free or loans there will not be any signings, unless of course there is outgoing player sales as also stated on here.

With the matter of Langston , as I have said on here, there will be a meeting between Sam and TG and whether it is Peter Ridsdale or Alan Whitely mediating, it will take place. The sooner the club meet Langston it will be for the benefit of the club as at the end of the year the interim agreement ends and the loan becomes £24 million and there is no signed agreement beyond this point. Also in the interim agreement it is also stated that the club has to meet with Langston this year. As of yesterday all monthly payments outstanding were paid up to Langston and the club is now up to date with it's payment plan with langston.

Here is a little suggestion I would like to make, if the club are asking the Players to defer payments until the season end, are PMG willing to defer payments of the Premier Seating too ?

You need to look at the set up of the club to realise what is going on, TG is in Malaysia so he is not in control, how can he be, PMG are represented at the club by the personnel employed there, Jenkins, Lee, and Whitely and they are overseeing the day to day running of the club. Two of those three have to work within the income streams the club has today and that is why we are seeing more cuts and payments being staged over longer periods but there is a mountain of debt we had all hoped would be cleared when TG and Tan came on board, unless there is a new injection of cash then we will not progress for many years, but who is going to put the money in, the Malaysians will not, PMG will not, Borley will not, so who ?


http://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/page/New ... 55,00.html

excellent factual post Carl (as always) keep up the good work

Great post Carl and one your best posts so far as its ALL FACTS, whether people like it or not.

Scaremonger or realist, you DECIDE.

Scaremonger or realist, you DECIDE.

REALIST

The thing is I enjoy reading the message boards and find Carl's posts interesting. However one minute we are being asked to get behind the Malaysians be patient and allow them time to sort everything out; this I understand, but then we seem to be told that all is not well and we should be very worried. This is where I get confused.

Carl - thx for the post. 2 questions:
1. Were the Langston installments recently brought up to date?
2. It is entirely fair that the Malaysians don't contribute more than their share, but why don't they increase their share/or take over?
Bosco

Carl - thx for the post. 2 questions:
1. Were the Langston installments recently brought up to date?
2. It is entirely fair that the Malaysians don't contribute more than their share, but why don't they increase their share/or take over?
Bosco

1. Yesterday
2. Because they will become more responsible with the more shares they own.

2. It is entirely fair that the Malaysians don't contribute more than their share, but why don't they increase their share/or take over?
Bosco

Increasing their share involves them investing more money over and above that required to keep the club ticking over. Also effectively makes them liable for organising repayment of all the debts they didn't accrue. I can see why they've kept their stake low.

Other directors need to help pick up the slack imo. They were around when Ridsdale was given free rein, have to thus be held culpable.

The question is, what do the Malaysians do should other directors not play ball. The club either continues drifting, the Malaysians have to invest more heavily or have a mass firesale of players.

Whilst I've no doubt they are good businessmen and would benefit the club no end, a major part of me is wondering if, due to a lack of football knowledge ( not just on the pitch, financially as well ) they may have bitten off more than they can chew - worst case scenario, cutting their losses and withdrawing.

We all get confused, one minute we are told that play offs are to stressful and next year its top two for us, then they talk of negotiating with Bellamy, what do you think people are going to assume, yes we must back the Malaysians and give them 100% support, but that don't mean we have to follow on blindly if they are taking us in a direction we don't want to go.

It's early stages and we can but hope they get it right, but how long do we give them and if as they stated we are aiming for top two, how are we going to get there with a weaker squad that last year, and one at that that appears pissed off with the bonus and appearance monies being held back.

If we got to clear the decks sell our top players and replace with bargain buys on low wages, then tell us as it is and let us decide if we want a piece of it, lot's of us have been to the bottom and beyond and have stuck with it, we ain't going to jump ship now, but stop giving us misleading signals, we have been lied to and stuck with it, but that can't go on forever.

Do people think that we want to the club to fail just to bring Sam back, are they real,I just want us to succeed if that is done without Sam because we don't need him then so be it. But let's see first how they deal with this Langstone debt and what are the options.

Sam's dream was that the stadium's assest (rent and land) would fund our club forever. Yes PMG got the stadium built, but at what price? They raped the club of every asset it had by putting in the absolute minimum to do so. PMG took every asset, so the club are now left with a stadium the club cannot possibly self finance.

A few months back we sold some land to PMG on the very cheap (I think about 1.9m) to raise the money for tax. They got the land then never used the money to pay the tax. Just one of many examples of PMG raping us. Criminal, daylight robbery in my opinion.

Te problem for me Gwyn is fans don't want to hear prudent financial management.

They want the best players, the big names.

Failure to deliver, well...

It's plain to anybody the wage bill is way too high in proportion to income. So there are two ways of dealing with it - increase income or lower outgoings. Ideal world, both happen.

Income streams we know have been hit certainly for this coming season. We can't sustain the payroll with the incomings we have got, especially when the bulk is earmarked for other people. So wthe club has to work on reducing the payroll initially, and that means shipping the higher paid players out.

Will there be endless complains? Sure. Long term stability is far more important, and let's be honest, teams have got promoted with "lesser" players than we have.

The problem is, maintaining the current squad we have on the current wages requires cash to pay - ignoring debt repayments. Which at the moment requires a lot more investment...

it's going to be tough times - very tough times - for the next few seasons imo. Hopefully it'll mean we come out of it stronger.

Carl - thx for the post. 2 questions:
1. Were the Langston installments recently brought up to date?
2. It is entirely fair that the Malaysians don't contribute more than their share, but why don't they increase their share/or take over?
Bosco

1. Yesterday
2. Because they will become more responsible with the more shares they own.

CARL - Surely though the current ownership arrangements (with some directors not pulling their weght) will prevent TG achieving any of his stated ambitions for the club. In all the meetings prior to their investment, surely future strategy including each director's willingness to further invest, would have been agreed?
Where did the £ come to pay Langston?
Cheers
Bosco

Carl,

Thanks for up-date info. It's not good. I agree with you 100% re premier seating revenue.

Gethin if its right for you to ask the players to defer their contractual rights why dont you ask your paymasters, PMG faction ,to defer theirs. You expect the players to help out, I bet you wouldn't ask Paul though would you!

I am afraid this situation is going to drag on as the preferred creditor directors dont give a damn as they would have the first pickings if things went tits up.

Gwyn, been there for about 20 years so well used to the ups and downs of Cardiff City. Still have a birthday card my lad made with kumar and a firing squad it just seems much more difficult to understand these days.

What if you heard that whilst the club staff players included had been paid late and made to sweat for a few days whilst waiting to see if yet again it would come thru.Yet whilst all this was goin on PMG had allready had their cheque days earlier for the £93,000 due to them for that months Premier saeting.

Perhaps PMG needed the money more than the cook at the club or some of the cleaners, YOU DECIDE.

What if you heard that whilst the club staff players included had been paid late and made to sweat for a few days whilst waiting to see if yet again it would come thru.Yet whilst all this was goin on PMG had allready had their cheque days earlier for the £93,000 due to them for that months Premier saeting.

Perhaps PMG needed the money more than the cook at the club or some of the cleaners, YOU DECIDE.

I thought that the premier club revenue was nothing to do with the club and a seperate revenue stream to PMG as part of the stadium?

therefore whilst we might not agree with it we cant complain about it

What if you heard that whilst the club staff players included had been paid late and made to sweat for a few days whilst waiting to see if yet again it would come thru.Yet whilst all this was goin on PMG had allready had their cheque days earlier for the £93,000 due to them for that months Premier saeting.

Perhaps PMG needed the money more than the cook at the club or some of the cleaners, YOU DECIDE.

I thought that the premier club revenue was nothing to do with the club and a seperate revenue stream to PMG as part of the stadium?

therefore whilst we might not agree with it we cant complain about it

Premier Club money is even in a seperate bank account last I heard and is there just to pay PMG.

They are owed anything from £7-£10m by the club, I know this won't be popular but you can't blame them for covering their asses. its good business.

On the other hand though they really should be looking to defer/write off some of the debt and or interest to take their share of the pain too.

Yes much like the ticket money for the Welsh Fa after the Scottish international and we paid that back on time as well.

i f*cking hate what hamman and ridsdale have done to us terrible.

What if you heard that whilst the club staff players included had been paid late and made to sweat for a few days whilst waiting to see if yet again it would come thru.Yet whilst all this was goin on PMG had allready had their cheque days earlier for the £93,000 due to them for that months Premier saeting.

Perhaps PMG needed the money more than the cook at the club or some of the cleaners, YOU DECIDE.

I thought that the premier club revenue was nothing to do with the club and a seperate revenue stream to PMG as part of the stadium?

therefore whilst we might not agree with it we cant complain about it

Premier Club money is even in a seperate bank account last I heard and is there just to pay PMG.

They are owed anything from £7-£10m by the club, I know this won't be popular but you can't blame them for covering their asses. its good business.

On the other hand though they really should be looking to defer/write off some of the debt and or interest to take their share of the pain too.

Tim, yes it is in separate bank account and goes Directly to PMG(Paul Guy/Mike Hall).

PMG stadium I can see it now

Premier Club money is even in a seperate bank account last I heard and is there just to pay PMG.

They are owed anything from £7-£10m by the club, I know this won't be popular but you can't blame them for covering their asses. its good business.

On the other hand though they really should be looking to defer/write off some of the debt and or interest to take their share of the pain too.[/quote]

Tim, yes it is in separate bank account and goes Directly to PMG(Paul Guy/Mike Hall).[/quote]


Cheers Annis.

Gwyn

what was the cheque for? was it for something else?

I aasumed ths imaginairy cheque was for premier seating, could be interest on loan, really don't know .

The pre season tour to Malaysia cancelled - were the real reasons given ?

The remainder of the Chopra deal could not be completed as agreed previously, but now done in installments.

The remainder of the Hudson deal is still to be completed as agreed previously.

The wages have been late each month in the last 5.

Players bonuses and appearences fees have been asked to be deferred.

The club has agreed to meet with Langston to discuss how best to deal with the loan notes that has to be paid in full at the end of this year.

Craig Bellamy was top of Dave Jones' wish list and the club negotiated with Man City to try and bring him in.




All the above has been reported on this forum prior to it becoming public and this is not a ' look at us we know everything ' this is about us telling it as it is, and what frightens a lot of our supporters is the truth because at present the truth is not good to hear. Some sections of fans groups do not want this information put out even though they are fact.

I'm not doubting your source as most of the info you get seems to be pretty accurate, correct if I'm mistaken but not all the points you make above have been confirmed have they? I'm looking at the Chopra and Hudson payment issues in particular, the only place I've read about them is on this forum. Although I've been fairly busy so could have missed them if reported elsewhere, feel free to correct me if I have.

Surely we can't form an opinion on all the 'facts' as above when only some of them have been confirmed by a source other than this forum.

I know this comes across as a petty 'snipe', it's not intended to be, you must be aware that one of the reasons there seems to be a bit of anomosity from the other board is due to posts like this where things are reported as factual which can't be verified elsewhere. I say verified as you mention in the above quote that these points were reported here before becoming public knowledge, the two I've pointed out are only public knowledge because they've been reported here.

read the report from the trusts meeting with the board they club said

"The transfer of Michael Chopra was always subject to a series of staged payments and the club are looking at options to finalise payments with Sunderland."

I stand corrected on the Chopra issue.

Cheers lads

The club have now announced the Chopra payment has been made, so obviously there was some truth in that point, they also sade they had agreed with Sunderland to pay a reduced payment of £250,00 with the rest put off to next year (end of rainbow,pot of gold) so possibly there was an element of truth that it was meant to be one and a half millionible.

We did not know the payment was late until it was posted on here,possibly none of our business, but if as we were possibly told on here we were yet again under threat of a transfer embargo, possibly that is our business, especially if people are buying season tickets on the strength of a team re build.

So all the things abot Chops and Sunderland have come out one way or another, do you now believe there's any truth in the Hudson and Charlton story and possible embargo over that case as well.

shit stirring, scare mongering or informing, only YOU DECIDE.

The club have now announced the Chopra payment has been made, so obviously there was some truth in that point, they also sade they had agreed with Sunderland to pay a reduced payment of £250,00 with the rest put off to next year (end of rainbow,pot of gold) so possibly there was an element of truth that it was meant to be one and a half millionible.

We did not know the payment was late until it was posted on here,possibly none of our business, but if as we were possibly told on here we were yet again under threat of a transfer embargo, possibly that is our business, especially if people are buying season tickets on the strength of a team re build.

So all the things abot Chops and Sunderland have come out one way or another, do you now believe there's any truth in the Hudson and Charlton story and possible embargo over that case as well.

shit stirring, scare mongering or informing, only YOU DECIDE.

As I said above, I stand corrected on the Chopra issue. I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

Personally, I think the posts are informative, it's good to know what's going on with our club. I just think sometimes things could be released with a bit of caution as we're getting very sensitive information in an area that a lot of us have little to no expertise of - running a football club.

I've no doubt we're in the shit financially and some of the inside info is very worrying and obviously not the 'norm' in a football club. Other things possibly are normal everyday occurrences on the business side of a football club - like re-negotiating payments to clubs for players purchased (Chopra and Hudson). We do have a tendancy to think the worst when we hear bad news, it seems to be the way things are done at the City, I just think a bit more caution when either posting things or reading them would help ease the general negative feeling amongst fans at the moment. The last thing we want is that feeling carrying over to the stands and effect our support for the team.