WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS ?

When people finally realise that this club is in a mess right now then we may have unity amongst us, the fans, and with a clear outlook and projection from the club of how they plan to sort it out can we only then understand the situation better and accept it.

What options are there for the club ?

I am putting forward the ones that I think are open to them, I hope others can compliment this thread with some productive comments as to the best way they see the club going forward.

1. Investment from the current directors to help pay the clubs outgoings for the season, for the remainder alone I believe this figure to be £20+ million.

2. Player sales. This could prove to be a problem area as PMG have first charge over many players so therefore would therefore would the money go into the clubs coffers, also there is Ray Ransons company too that may also have the same charge over other players.

3. Administration.

4. New Share issue. I believe there is £1.670.000.00 worth of shares outstanding from the recent share issue but I believe these had to be taken by May 25th. Also the club could raise in addition to that another £5million from the shares then outstanding available to the club.

5. External investment.

6. A full and complete takeover.

I am not giving my own view or opinion but just pointing out what options I believe are available, obviously the subjects require a deeper thought than what I have offered but it is there to create discussion amongst us.

Carl,

Do you know if any discussions have taken place with either PMG & Ray Ranson with reagrd "sorting" their debt?

At this moment in time I favour a Sam/Malaysian partnership. I can see Sam claimed investment seeing off PMG.

As far as PMG are concerned its heads they win, tails we lose.

They are the cuckoos in the nest, if their debt could be either paid off or negotiated and get their puppets out I am sure there would be a more constructive board in place.


We have to get rid of the parasites.

Admin, why dwell on it. Its the only way out as far as I can see it.

Carl,

Do you know if any discussions have taken place with either PMG & Ray Ranson with reagrd "sorting" their debt?

Ranson's company has been made a secured creditor.

At this moment in time I favour a Sam/Malaysian partnership. I can see Sam claimed investment seeing off PMG.

So how is that going to work?

I think the Malaysians missed a trick in my opinion - They gambled on premiership as a quick return and it failed but in my opionion they should have put us into Administration (Let the abuse start)

What it would have done is sorted out the debts for good, flushed out the dead wood and they would have had first dibs back on the club as they already part invested.

Yes I know we would have had a ten point deduction and not made the playoffs but we are starting this season with same crap as last

I think the Malaysians missed a trick in my opinion - They gambled on premiership as a quick return and it failed but in my opionion they should have put us into Administration (Let the abuse start)

What it would have done is sorted out the debts for good, flushed out the dead wood and they would have had first dibs back on the club as they already part invested.

Yes I know we would have had a ten point deduction and not made the playoffs but we are starting this season with same crap as last

Dobbin good post i agree and i have said for a long time admin is the only way out of this mess

carl do you exist???in real life

No I am a pro footballer in the day and spend my life as a keyboard warrior in the night , I have a made up family and am a billy no mates ..............................wait there that makes me real

For a short term fix why don't the club sell chopra for 3-4 mil, pay the tax bill, pay Sunderland and do the deal with Stoke to bring in kitson and tonge.

At this moment in time I favour a Sam/Malaysian partnership. I can see Sam claimed investment seeing off PMG.

So how is that going to work?

Well if it happens we are going to have to wait and see.

What tax bill ?

the one the NOTW are reporting.

Offer the fans shares! Surely they would sell?

What's the going rate with the shares at the moment?

Carl, Are you aware of the most likely outcome?

I can't believe that people still think Administration is a preferable option

It would result in assests being sold (i.e. all the players that would command a fee), at least a 10 point reduction,TG & Co would lose all their investment, as will Sam and a few others. The only people who would be OK would be PMG and the other secured creditors.

Even after all that it is very unlikely that any administrator would allow current directors (particularly those with a large investment, i.e. TG and VT) to take the club back. It would clearly be a way of avoiding paying creditors and starting again and administrators do not take kindly to that.

We need to avoid Admin if we possibly can and it is the easy way out that people think Charlton and Southampton are yet to recover their Championship status despite all the pain they've been through.

I am going for administration, It will claer the air once and for all.
Ut will enable us to hopefully start again.............

[quote="carlccfc"]

Player sales. This could prove to be a problem area as PMG have first charge over many players so therefore would therefore would the money go into the clubs coffers, also there is Ray Ransons company too that may also have the same charge over other players.

I am a little confused by this statement as the only details of mortgage charges held by PMG against either Cardiff City Football Club, Cardiff City Stadium Ltd or Cardiff City Premier Seating only include reference to a loan of £11.3m secured against all future income of the Premier Seating and Executive boxes. Absolutely no mention of a first charge against any player sales.

Unlike the Player Finance Fund who through their agents Walkers Financial Services of Grand Cayman have loaned the club £4.5m secured clearly against future transfer income from the sale of ANY player, not a single player mentioned indivdually. This mortgage has recently been changed to secured status probably by TG and almost certainly at a lower interest rate.

I raise this point only because I believe it is important to keep discussions as factual as possible and in fairness to PG he or his company have advanced our club £11.3m to complete the stadium. Add this to the value of his investment in shares I find it difficult to understand how he can be accused of not supporting the club.

It also appears, at least to me, that TG & VT have some way to go to reach the level of support given by both PG and for that matter SH. It is clear to all that the club has serious cash flow problems and for me the only way to overcome the problem is external investment, but from where or should I say who?

2. Player sales. This could prove to be a problem area as PMG have first charge over many players

Is this true, Carl?

I don't believe it is.

Player sales. This could prove to be a problem area as PMG have first charge over many players so therefore would therefore would the money go into the clubs coffers, also there is Ray Ransons company too that may also have the same charge over other players.

I am a little confused by this statement as the only details of mortgage charges held by PMG against either Cardiff City Football Club, Cardiff City Stadium Ltd or Cardiff City Premier Seating only include reference to a loan of £11.3m secured against all future income of the Premier Seating and Executive boxes. Absolutely no mention of a first charge against any player sales.

Unlike the Player Finance Fund who through their agents Walkers Financial Services of Grand Cayman have loaned the club £4.5m secured clearly against future transfer income from the sale of ANY player, not a single player mentioned indivdually. This mortgage has recently been changed to secured status probably by TG and almost certainly at a lower interest rate.

I raise this point only because I believe it is important to keep discussions as factual as possible and in fairness to PG he or his company have advanced our club £11.3m to complete the stadium. Add this to the value of his investment in shares I find it difficult to understand how he can be accused of not supporting the club.

It also appears, at least to me, that TG & VT have some way to go to reach the level of support given by both PG and for that matter SH. It is clear to all that the club has serious cash flow problems and for me the only way to overcome the problem is external investment, but from where or should I say who?

I'm also pretty cettain that PMG no longer have a charge over player sales.


It was also reported that the agreement to give Ranson security was tied in with a reduction in the amount owing and a new staged agreement for payment. Its possible some player sales money may have to go to them, but not necessarily all, if an new agreement was made then this would have been one of the key facets of it.

Some other very good points there.

I cannot see how the new investors would even consider Admin as an option, I have faith that they have some sort of plan as to invest 6 million and watch it go within a few months would be very bad business for them and cannot see how these two successful business men would do such a thing. I am not getting that worried really as if we had to go into admin the best time would have been last season or prior to investment now it is pointless as it would put us back to far. We came within a whisker of the premiership and I am confident if we can just hang onto the players we have we will be their or their abouts again this time with the right result which of course would then secure our future.

I opinion is the TG and co have a plan they must have known of what state the club was in before they signed their cheque and as such have a plan to keep the club a float without losing our best assets in the hope that the club make the prem this time around and if not go for a complete takeover and clear the debts or then sell off our best players.

Glass is always half full on my table.

I cannot see how the new investors would even consider Admin as an option, I have faith that they have some sort of plan as to invest 6 million and watch it go within a few months would be very bad business for them and cannot see how these two successful business men would do such a thing. I am not getting that worried really as if we had to go into admin the best time would have been last season or prior to investment now it is pointless as it would put us back to far. We came within a whisker of the premiership and I am confident if we can just hang onto the players we have we will be their or their abouts again this time with the right result which of course would then secure our future.

I opinion is the TG and co have a plan they must have known of what state the club was in before they signed their cheque and as such have a plan to keep the club a float without losing our best assets in the hope that the club make the prem this time around and if not go for a complete takeover and clear the debts or then sell off our best players.

Glass is always half full on my table.

you are right.
Admin is a non-starter.
We'd be better off selling every player we could .

The Malaysians would have taken admin the day after the play-off if they wanted to go that route.

Player sales. This could prove to be a problem area as PMG have first charge over many players so therefore would therefore would the money go into the clubs coffers, also there is Ray Ransons company too that may also have the same charge over other players.

I am a little confused by this statement as the only details of mortgage charges held by PMG against either Cardiff City Football Club, Cardiff City Stadium Ltd or Cardiff City Premier Seating only include reference to a loan of £11.3m secured against all future income of the Premier Seating and Executive boxes. Absolutely no mention of a first charge against any player sales.

Unlike the Player Finance Fund who through their agents Walkers Financial Services of Grand Cayman have loaned the club £4.5m secured clearly against future transfer income from the sale of ANY player, not a single player mentioned indivdually. This mortgage has recently been changed to secured status probably by TG and almost certainly at a lower interest rate.

I raise this point only because I believe it is important to keep discussions as factual as possible and in fairness to PG he or his company have advanced our club £11.3m to complete the stadium. Add this to the value of his investment in shares I find it difficult to understand how he can be accused of not supporting the club.

It also appears, at least to me, that TG & VT have some way to go to reach the level of support given by both PG and for that matter SH. It is clear to all that the club has serious cash flow problems and for me the only way to overcome the problem is external investment, but from where or should I say who?

I'm also pretty cettain that PMG no longer have a charge over player sales.


It was also reported that the agreement to give Ranson security was tied in with a reduction in the amount owing and a new staged agreement for payment. Its possible some player sales money may have to go to them, but not necessarily all, if an new agreement was made then this would have been one of the key facets of it.

Some other very good points there.

It would change the situation Tim if they have not got a charge over the players but I have never seen or heard anything to the contrary.

I'm also pretty cettain that PMG no longer have a charge over player sales.


It was also reported that the agreement to give Ranson security was tied in with a reduction in the amount owing and a new staged agreement for payment. Its possible some player sales money may have to go to them, but not necessarily all, if an new agreement was made then this would have been one of the key facets of it.

Some other very good points there.

It would change the situation Tim if they have not got a charge over the players but I have never seen or heard anything to the contrary.

Carl I have seen ALL mortgage documents relating to PMG that have been filed at Companies House by Cardiff City Football Club, Cardiff City Stadium Ltd and Cardiff City Premier Seating. I can tell you that absolutely no documents reference anything relating to player sales only income from Premier Seating and Executive Boxes.

I have absolutely no reason to doubt you and I hope you feel the same about what I am saying because I believe it is important that these things are debated as openly as possible, bearing in mind that as fans we are limited in how much access we have to this information. Having said that I believe that if no document relating to player sales naming PMG as having a first charge is available through Companies House then it doesn't exist. So what exactly have you seen? or have you just been told it is the case, there is a big difference.

In my opinion it does affect the debate we are having because we do know that TG is trying to get PMG to accept shares as part payment of their debt, he also appears to have renegotiated with the Player Finance Fund (Ray Ranson) in return for giving the debt secured status.

If this pattern was continued with Langston (SH) is it not possible that part of that debt could be exchanged for shares in the club, it could also allow for the balance of the debt to be secured which would be in both parties interest.

Now this is just my opinion but surely that senario would be a huge step forward from where the club is at this moment and I offer it only in reply to your original post requesting possible ways out of this cash flow crisis.

We are in a form of Administration now.
TG is trying to rescheduled debts. Cutting costs.

Carl I have seen ALL mortgage documents relating to PMG that have been filed at Companies House by Cardiff City Football Club, Cardiff City Stadium Ltd and Cardiff City Premier Seating. I can tell you that absolutely no documents reference anything relating to player sales only income from Premier Seating and Executive Boxes.

I have absolutely no reason to doubt you and I hope you feel the same about what I am saying because I believe it is important that these things are debated as openly as possible, bearing in mind that as fans we are limited in how much access we have to this information. Having said that I believe that if no document relating to player sales naming PMG as having a first charge is available through Companies House then it doesn't exist. So what exactly have you seen? or have you just been told it is the case, there is a big difference.

In my opinion it does affect the debate we are having because we do know that TG is trying to get PMG to accept shares as part payment of their debt, he also appears to have renegotiated with the Player Finance Fund (Ray Ranson) in return for giving the debt secured status.

If this pattern was continued with Langston (SH) is it not possible that part of that debt could be exchanged for shares in the club, it could also allow for the balance of the debt to be secured which would be in both parties interest.

Now this is just my opinion but surely that senario would be a huge step forward from where the club is at this moment and I offer it only in reply to your original post requesting possible ways out of this cash flow crisis.[/quote]


There WAS a charge some time ago which included player sales which COULD technically include any money from Ledley's sale (I think it was when PMG lent CCFC the first £3m), but last time I looked at the list of charges it had gone, and plenty of the players who would have been covered by that agreement had been sold too.

i guess this is the one you were thinking of Carl ?

In any event surely PMG will be relatively comfortable with the position they are in with the premier Club, and Tg could still force them to take the £2.7m debtfor equity claim . PLUS the EGM documents also referred to an agreement to pay PMG in installments to 2013.

Carl I have seen ALL mortgage documents relating to PMG that have been filed at Companies House by Cardiff City Football Club, Cardiff City Stadium Ltd and Cardiff City Premier Seating. I can tell you that absolutely no documents reference anything relating to player sales only income from Premier Seating and Executive Boxes.

I have absolutely no reason to doubt you and I hope you feel the same about what I am saying because I believe it is important that these things are debated as openly as possible, bearing in mind that as fans we are limited in how much access we have to this information. Having said that I believe that if no document relating to player sales naming PMG as having a first charge is available through Companies House then it doesn't exist. So what exactly have you seen? or have you just been told it is the case, there is a big difference.

In my opinion it does affect the debate we are having because we do know that TG is trying to get PMG to accept shares as part payment of their debt, he also appears to have renegotiated with the Player Finance Fund (Ray Ranson) in return for giving the debt secured status.

If this pattern was continued with Langston (SH) is it not possible that part of that debt could be exchanged for shares in the club, it could also allow for the balance of the debt to be secured which would be in both parties interest.

Now this is just my opinion but surely that senario would be a huge step forward from where the club is at this moment and I offer it only in reply to your original post requesting possible ways out of this cash flow crisis.

There WAS a charge some time ago which included player sales which COULD technically include any money from Ledley's sale (I think it was when PMG lent CCFC the first £3m), but last time I looked at the list of charges it had gone, and plenty of the players who would have been covered by that agreement had been sold too.

i guess this is the one you were thinking of Carl ?

In any event surely PMG will be relatively comfortable with the position they are in with the premier Club, and Tg could still force them to take the £2.7m debtfor equity claim . PLUS the EGM documents also referred to an agreement to pay PMG in installments to 2013.[/quote]

Thank you Castleblue a great returning post and yes Tim the charge is the one you mentioned I was thinking of.

personally i would like to see a full and complete takeover....... but cant see it while we are in the divison we are....

really dont think adminstration is the answer but i can see why some ppl might want to consider it...... but i hope its not the road the club goes down.

we almost got to the prem , if i was a director i would strengthen the squad gamble and get the money back if we manage to get promotion , dont go backwards get to the prem and we should be sorted financially.

My solution is to re-launch the Premier Club by offering seats at a more affordable rate (£600 for a season) with a view to selling out all 2,200 seats.

That alone would rise £1.3M per season which could be securitised. The club would then take out a long term finance loan (arranged by the Malaysians) for £20m paid for over 20 years and pay off PMG, Ray Ranson and Langston.

We would have to sell at least one player (probably Chopra) and put next yeas season tickets on sale early (pre-Christmas) to get through this season.

The advantage would be one debt paid for at a stable affordable rate whilst all other income streams (including player sales) are directed towards the running of the club.