What's the estimated current debt ?

What's the estimated current debt that CCFC owe to all parties EXCEPT Langston / Sam ?? Just wondering because seeing as NONE or hardly any of this has been paid yet CCFC is in the shite financially , just wondering where the money from the past 5 years has disappeared to ? ?

The Langston debt itself is either a figure of £10 million or £24 million

As for other debts, it's a bit difficult to keep track of an exact figure - some are constants debts, whilst others are ever-changing (wages, other "admin" fees). I would probably total these around £3 million?

Therefore, it could be anything from £13-£14 million to £27-28 million.

(Don't take quotes from this, this is an outsiders rough estimation).

OK thanks for that Daf , also with our ever increasing wage bill and day to day running costs I wonder where the income streams will be this season coz TG wont put his hand into his pocket and bail out CCFC each month ?

If you take things as they stand now then Langston is owed £9.5m (capital) and £5m from naming rights/promotion.

PMG are owed £7m + 2.7m in shares

The rest is a guessamate Stadium Contractors £8m, Various finance companies £6m and director loans may be £3m.

Just on that lot we have £38m and that's probably shy of the real total as we owe VT more and more cash as he stumps up to clear debt and pay wages.

In my simplistic mind I would guestimate.
20 Million langstone
10 million PMG
2 million Michael Isaac
3.75 million Sports Asset Management (Ray Ransom)
2.0 miliion Sunderland
half a million Charlton
2 million HMRC
£250,00 Borley
£18.00 Clarkes pies

8 million to Annis for book sales.

Shall I write you a cheque or would you rather cash?

In my simplistic mind I would guestimate.
20 Million langstone
10 million PMG
2 million Michael Isaac
3.75 million Sports Asset Management (Ray Ransom)
2.0 miliion Sunderland
half a million Charlton
2 million HMRC
£250,00 Borley
£18.00 Clarkes pies

8 million to Annis for book sales.

Shall I write you a cheque or would you rather cash?

BTW that totals £48,500,018

Was that the day we had free pies Gwyn ? And I blame Sam Hammam coz I have to pay £3.10 for a pint too , that man has a lot to answer for

Was that the day we had free pies Gwyn ? And I blame Sam Hammam coz I have to pay £3.10 for a pint too , that man has a lot to answer for

your not far wrong martin.
according to the sam haters the only reason we are in debt is because of langston, never mind the other 30m.

Was that the day we had free pies Gwyn ? And I blame Sam Hammam coz I have to pay £3.10 for a pint too , that man has a lot to answer for

your not far wrong martin.
according to the sam haters the only reason we are in debt is because of langston, never mind the other 30m.

I know Jamie and when u consider they havnt paid that off yet but Ridsdale run up a huge debt and sold £millions worth of talent ................ where did it all go ?? How can anyone blame Sam for the current outstanding debt at CCFC coz none of his or Langston's money has been repaid yet !

Was that the day we had free pies Gwyn ? And I blame Sam Hammam coz I have to pay £3.10 for a pint too , that man has a lot to answer for

your not far wrong martin.
according to the sam haters the only reason we are in debt is because of langston, never mind the other 30m.

I think most sensible people are blaming both Hammam and Ridsdale for the huge level of debts that have been run up as both of them committed the club to debts it couldn`t afford to repay.

As at 31 May 2009 , CCFC Holdings owed a total of just a little under £66m to all of its creditors , about half of which was payable by 31 May this year and the other half payable after that (about £26m of which was only payable in 5 years time or more - principally the Langston debt).

Yes but the debt that Sam ran up then was that just not 5 years running costs of CCFC including players , Ninian ground improvements , the setting up of the acadamy and all the planning etc for the new stadium ? Plus a day out in Mansfield

Yes but the debt that Sam ran up then was that just not 5 years running costs of CCFC including players , Ninian ground improvements , the setting up of the acadamy and all the planning etc for the new stadium ? Plus a day out in Mansfield

There is also a very good argument that a number of players (Chopra, Loovens, Ramsey, Gunter, Johnson, Jerorme, Gabbidon and Collins) who were brought to the club by Hammam (or developed through the academy) were sold for a total of £25m and that amount would more than cover the £24m loan notes he left behind.

It was Ridsdale who squndered that cash and in contrast has left behind a legacy where by Joe Ledley has left for nothing and the other most valuable players at the club have less than 1 year to run on their contracts

Im just trying to highlight the fact that a football club needs £millions just to survive 1 year without transfers in etc , hope TG and the guys know what they are taking on ?

Im just trying to highlight the fact that a football club needs £millions just to survive 1 year without transfers in etc , hope TG and the guys know what they are taking on ?

I thought you were trying to highlight the cost of feeding ice cream to the inner circle

Being serious I believe our club is just a small part of a very bigger picture that Tan has for his Berjaya company.

Im just trying to highlight the fact that a football club needs £millions just to survive 1 year without transfers in etc , hope TG and the guys know what they are taking on ?

I thought you were trying to highlight the cost of feeding ice cream to the inner circle

Being serious I believe our club is just a small part of a very bigger picture that Tan has for his Berjaya company.

agreed but that means Prem League status 1st tho ?

To get to the Premier League, you need luck, good management and someone willing to pump in the funds needed to get the necessary players for the job.

Some people will say yes but look at Blackpool, but for every Blackpool you'll find a dozen clubs who were willing to take a punt and get the players in, whether that was at season start or in January when they were in with a sniff.

How many times in recent years have we been there or there abouts in January only to be fobbed off about the lack of new players not materialising.

If it ain't a gamble, then get prepared for years of frustration waiting in the wings for us to be the next Blackpool, rather than the next Newcastle, West Brom or Sunderland etc.

Me, I like a gamble.

Sensible gambling tho as we all knew how much of a gamble Ridsdale took ?

Was that the day we had free pies Gwyn ? And I blame Sam Hammam coz I have to pay £3.10 for a pint too , that man has a lot to answer for

your not far wrong martin.
according to the sam haters the only reason we are in debt is because of langston, never mind the other 30m.

I think most sensible people are blaming both Hammam and Ridsdale for the huge level of debts that have been run up as both of them committed the club to debts it couldn`t afford to repay.

As at 31 May 2009 , CCFC Holdings owed a total of just a little under £66m to all of its creditors , about half of which was payable by 31 May this year and the other half payable after that (about £26m of which was only payable in 5 years time or more - principally the Langston debt).

Bloody Hell. I really thought it was closer to £28m. There's absolutely no way the club can continue with that around their necks, no matter how much re-negotiating the can do.

thats why we nearly went bankrupt at the court hearing about the non payment of the HRMC money , TG is keeping CCFC afloat but only just at the moment !

Sensible gambling tho as we all knew how much of a gamble Ridsdale took ?

it amazes me how many people out there are claiming the malaysians took a punt on us getting to the premiership and will now be looking to cut their loss.
The majority of their money was put into the club after the play off final and im sure with the antics of the former chairman they could have easily found a way to withdraw from any agreement after the final and walk away.
they dident they havent and they are in it for the long haul but they will not be repeating the ridiculous antics with contracts and wages that the two previous regimes did.

if we had gone up then that would have been the icing on the cake for them and in a way it would have made Riddler a very rich man to boot !! But they were in this for the long term so lets back them !

About £7m of that total debt of £66m I referred to earlier in this thread was paid off (to Barclays Bank) in Sept 2009 from the sale of Ninian Park to Redrow.
Another £9m (the Langston stadium naming rights bit) will not have to be paid by the club - it will be paid by whoever takes up the naming rights.
So that`s £16m off the debt straight away.

In recent months deals have been done to convert another part of the debts into shares , taking another £5m or so off the debt , plus there has been about £6m of new share issue cash in as well - so a further £11m off the debt that way.

If now the Langston debt can be paid off at the £10m figure which would settle it in full before the end of this year , that would write-off a further £17m or so of debt included as at 31 May 2009 as the higher figure was included in liabilities as at that date.

Altogether , the above figures come to £44m , reducing the total liabilities to be paid down to £22m. - subject to finding the money to pay Langston of course , but a deal to settle a £17m+ debt for £10m seems a good one to me - hopefully it will to TG/VT as well .

Keith

About £7m of that total debt of £66m I referred to earlier in this thread was paid off (to Barclays Bank) in Sept 2009 from the sale of Ninian Park to Redrow.
Another £9m (the Langston stadium naming rights bit) will not have to be paid by the club - it will be paid by whoever takes up the naming rights.
So that`s £16m off the debt straight away.

In recent months deals have been done to convert another part of the debts into shares , taking another £5m or so off the debt , plus there has been about £6m of new share issue cash in as well - so a further £11m off the debt that way.

If now the Langston debt can be paid off at the £10m figure which would settle it in full before the end of this year , that would write-off a further £17m or so of debt included as at 31 May 2009 as the higher figure was included in liabilities as at that date.

Altogether , the above figures come to £44m , reducing the total liabilities to be paid down to £22m. - subject to finding the money to pay Langston of course , but a deal to settle a £17m+ debt for £10m seems a good one to me - hopefully it will to TG/VT as well .

Keith

That's better. I think £30 million seems to be around the 'tipping point' as to whether it's worth soldiering on. We've had huge debt for the last 6 seasons. There can't be many clubs who have managed to survive with that round their necks for so long.

Im just trying to highlight the fact that a football club needs £millions just to survive 1 year without transfers in etc , hope TG and the guys know what they are taking on ?

I thought you were trying to highlight the cost of feeding ice cream to the inner circle

Being serious I believe our club is just a small part of a very bigger picture that Tan has for his Berjaya company.

agreed but that means Prem League status 1st tho ?

May be but I really think Tan's gambling licence and his plans to launch legal telehone betting on UK and European football matches in Malaysia is the key to our future. Due to internal pressure from the Muslim majority his plans are on the back burner for now, but that might well change within 12 months.

About £7m of that total debt of £66m I referred to earlier in this thread was paid off (to Barclays Bank) in Sept 2009 from the sale of Ninian Park to Redrow.
Another £9m (the Langston stadium naming rights bit) will not have to be paid by the club - it will be paid by whoever takes up the naming rights.
So that`s £16m off the debt straight away.

In recent months deals have been done to convert another part of the debts into shares , taking another £5m or so off the debt , plus there has been about £6m of new share issue cash in as well - so a further £11m off the debt that way.

If now the Langston debt can be paid off at the £10m figure which would settle it in full before the end of this year , that would write-off a further £17m or so of debt included as at 31 May 2009 as the higher figure was included in liabilities as at that date.

Altogether , the above figures come to £44m , reducing the total liabilities to be paid down to £22m. - subject to finding the money to pay Langston of course , but a deal to settle a £17m+ debt for £10m seems a good one to me - hopefully it will to TG/VT as well .

Keith

Unless Sam Hammam is offering a deal which is impossible to turn down, you would think the Langston debt will be settled on the 31 December this year.

About £7m of that total debt of £66m I referred to earlier in this thread was paid off (to Barclays Bank) in Sept 2009 from the sale of Ninian Park to Redrow.
Another £9m (the Langston stadium naming rights bit) will not have to be paid by the club - it will be paid by whoever takes up the naming rights.
So that`s £16m off the debt straight away.

In recent months deals have been done to convert another part of the debts into shares , taking another £5m or so off the debt , plus there has been about £6m of new share issue cash in as well - so a further £11m off the debt that way.

If now the Langston debt can be paid off at the £10m figure which would settle it in full before the end of this year , that would write-off a further £17m or so of debt included as at 31 May 2009 as the higher figure was included in liabilities as at that date.

Altogether , the above figures come to £44m , reducing the total liabilities to be paid down to £22m. - subject to finding the money to pay Langston of course , but a deal to settle a £17m+ debt for £10m seems a good one to me - hopefully it will to TG/VT as well .

Keith

Latest position .. Actual monies payable rather than book debts.

£10m to Sam (provided its paid to contract)
£7-£8m PMG - (less £2.7m if club takes up debt/equity agreement)
£2-£3m Ranson
£? Stadium creditor -surely no more than £3m now ?
£1m Isaacs (the majority of which can be converted to shares)
£2m ish Charlton, Sunderland, Feyenoord.
£1-£2m HMRC

Any others ?

Not as bad as it was. Not great, but actually can be controlled.



(I did a longer post but lost signal and lost it )