MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

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MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Sven » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:20 am

Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday

Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm

Sunday 10th February 2019


Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners


Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.

Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.

But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.


The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.

One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.

The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.


Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.

But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.

Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.


Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.

‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’

Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.
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MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Savigma » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:31 am

Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday

Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm

Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners


Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.

Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.

But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.


The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.

One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.

The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.


Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.

But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.

Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.


Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.

‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’

Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.


Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby wez1927 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:15 am

Savigma wrote:
Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday

Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm

Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners


Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.

Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.

But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.


The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.

One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.

The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.


Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.

But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.

Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.


Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.

‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’

Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.


Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?

How is it rubbish ? I bet you the McKay s own it
CARDIFF CITY TILL I DIE !
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby OriginalGrangeEndBlue » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:27 am

Keep posting mate.
True Blue through & through.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Dazzy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:13 am

Interesting. At least there are some ideas as to who may own the plane (albeit held back from being printed). Hopefully the investigation will identify the owners who need to be held to account
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby fred keenor » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:26 am

The one good thing about journalism in this country is that the owners will be named eventually.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Igovernor » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:38 am

Allegedly names have been deleted from a database, is that because people do not want to be named?
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Savigma » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:10 am

wez1927 wrote:
Savigma wrote:
Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday

Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm

Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners


Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.

Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.

But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.


The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.

One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.

The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.


Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.

But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.

Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.


Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.

‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’

Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.


Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?

How is it rubbish ? I bet you the McKay s own it


It's not the point of the article I'm criticizing, it's the absolutely ignorant wording by the newspaper claiming Emiliano was "Killed". How reliable is this newspaper, if this story was posted somewhere more reliable then I don't see why we don't share that, at least I'm sure if it was a credible article it wouldn't just throw out the suggestion that he was "killed". It's just really poor imo.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby JulesK » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:24 pm

Where does it say *killed* as I read * killing*, keep posted Sven .
Keeping the Faith since '74.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby snoopystorm » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:34 pm

Savigma wrote:
wez1927 wrote:
Savigma wrote:
Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday

Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm

Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners


Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.

Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.

But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.


The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.

One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.

The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.


Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.

But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.

Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.


Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.

‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’

Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.


Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?

How is it rubbish ? I bet you the McKay s own it


It's not the point of the article I'm criticizing, it's the absolutely ignorant wording by the newspaper claiming Emiliano was "Killed". How reliable is this newspaper, if this story was posted somewhere more reliable then I don't see why we don't share that, at least I'm sure if it was a credible article it wouldn't just throw out the suggestion that he was "killed". It's just really poor imo.


I honestly don’t see your issue with the wording! If it had been a car crash the wording would be fatal car crash killing the driver and passengers...... there’s bigger issues at hand and you’re stressing and performing over the wording
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Savigma » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:51 pm

JulesK wrote:Where does it say *killed* as I read * killing*, keep posted Sven .


This particular article says "killing", but his previous article he posted minutes before this one said

"In his most candid interview since Sala was killed in a plane crash"

The fact nobody understands the difference is suprising. He died from a plane crash, he wasn't killed. The example of being "killed in a car crash" is completely different. So sticking with the car crash arguement If the car crash was caused by an icy road that made them lose control of the car then nobody has been killed. They say killed if someone would either get charged for murder or manslaughter, which hasn't happened in this case.

I accept none of you see why I have an issue with this and I can see why. But it's worded wrong and insensitive, suggesting somebody was at fault, when it actually looks like weather conditions & / or mechanic failure played a part.

The pilot David Ibbotson did not kill Emiliano Sala. That's ridiculous.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Bluesman » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:53 pm

Why would the owner remove and prevent information from becoming public
This has got to be illegal
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Savigma » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:56 pm

Bluesman wrote:Why would the owner remove and prevent information from becoming public
This has got to be illegal

Or false. Can't see this story anywhere else, other than vague untrustworthy 'articles' that claim Emiliano was killed.
Thats funny, considering if it was remotely true it would be everywhere.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby fred keenor » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:10 pm

The accountant that deals with this company that registered the plane through Sac in norfolk even removed her bio from their website.
Hobby was shown as being a private pilot.
Can't believe the police are not involved as yet.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:17 pm

Savigma wrote:
Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday

Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm

Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners


Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.

Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.

But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.


The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.

One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.

The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.


Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.

But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.

Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.


Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.

‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’

Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.


Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?


What are you on about? He WAS killed. He didn't die of natural causes but by violent forces suffered in a plane crash, and that's being killed .

As far as Southern is concerned , I've personally come across loads of private aircraft registered to them and flown in them actually, so I think people are barking up a wrong tree there. They'll give the keeper to air crash investigators or police if requested, but I very much doubt that they're directly involved in operating it.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Deano1 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:05 pm

I think someone needs to learn the difference between the words 'killed' and 'murdered'. Nobody is implying anything by using the word 'killed'. It is used every day in reporting deaths of people in accidents etc.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Sven » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:43 pm

Savigma wrote:Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?


It's a serious situation, fella but not sure why you singled me out for (quote) "posting more rubbish" and you're now running in circles trying to justify yourself and find a way out! :roll: :oops:

It doesn't really bother me but I am (as are others now) interested. It seems you jumped in without too much real thought and a quick look at your previous posts says a lot! ;)

Was not Emiliano Sala (tragically) "killed" as a result of the plane crashing? :?


Now, whilst you're giving everyone a lesson in English, let's take a look...

In most cases, the two phrasings can be used interchangeably, but 'killed' does imply that the victim suffered a death that was directly caused by the incident itself and was probably also somewhat violent or at least unnatural; whilst 'died' carries no such implications.

For example, if there is a road traffic collision that isn't particularly serious (everyone is unscathed except for minor cuts and bruises), but old Nan, 92, was so shocked that she had a heart attack from all the commotion and later died from it, then it would be somewhat odd to say that she was 'killed' in the accident. Just like it would be a bit odd to say that she was 'killed' by a heart attack, but perfectly normal to say that she 'died' of a heart attack.

Such situations are quite contrived though and in any normal scenario I can think of, the two are interchangeable but with the generalisation that someone who suffers an untimely, possibly violent death was 'killed', where 'died' is more distanced and neutral

In polite terms, it could also be said that a person 'passed away' (for example at a funeral); specifically because it does not mention 'death' or being 'killed' directly

Perhaps you should read more...! ;) :ayatollah:
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Deano1 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:49 pm

Cancer killed my father. My friend was killed when there was an avalanche in the Alps, killing 5 people in total. Just a couple more examples.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Fowler T » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:52 pm

I don't know why the thread gets sidetracked over the use of a word! killed, died, killing etc etc.

The OP has simply posted an article from a news site, the wording used in the article is not representing the views of the poster.

A boat sank killing its passenger --- A man was killed when his boat sank... everyone knows what it means.

What we do know is that there seems to be something dodgy about this aeroplane and it may have only started to be uncovered because of this crash, there was another pilot being signed in at Nantes etc - have they been running illegal flights etc etc.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby OriginalGrangeEndBlue » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:56 pm

Sven wrote:
Savigma wrote:Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?


It's a serious situation, fella but not sure why you singled me out for (quote) "posting more rubbish" and you're now running in circles trying to justify yourself and find a way out! :roll: :oops:

It doesn't really bother me but I am (as are others now) interested. It seems you jumped in without too much real thought and a quick look at your previous posts says a lot! ;)

Was not Emiliano Sala (tragically) "killed" as a result of the plane crashing? :?


Now, whilst you're giving everyone a lesson in English, let's take a look...

In most cases, the two phrasings can be used interchangeably, but 'killed' does imply that the victim suffered a death that was directly caused by the incident itself and was probably also somewhat violent or at least unnatural; whilst 'died' carries no such implications.

For example, if there is a road traffic collision that isn't particularly serious (everyone is unscathed except for minor cuts and bruises), but old Nan, 92, was so shocked that she had a heart attack from all the commotion and later died from it, then it would be somewhat odd to say that she was 'killed' in the accident. Just like it would be a bit odd to say that she was 'killed' by a heart attack, but perfectly normal to say that she 'died' of a heart attack.

Such situations are quite contrived though and in any normal scenario I can think of, the two are interchangeable but with the generalisation that someone who suffers an untimely, possibly violent death was 'killed', where 'died' is more distanced and neutral

In polite terms, it could also be said that a person 'passed away' (for example at a funeral); specifically because it does not mention 'death' or being 'killed' directly

Perhaps you should read more...! ;) :ayatollah:


Top answer, Chris, to a rather silly, naive and pedantic post.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Dazzy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:38 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:
Savigma wrote:
Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday

Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm

Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners


Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.

Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.

But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.


The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.

One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.

The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.


Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.

But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.

Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.


Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.

‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’

Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.


Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.

Seriously Sven?


What are you on about? He WAS killed. He didn't die of natural causes but by violent forces suffered in a plane crash, and that's being killed .

As far as Southern is concerned , I've personally come across loads of private aircraft registered to them and flown in them actually, so I think people are barking up a wrong tree there. They'll give the keeper to air crash investigators or police if requested, but I very much doubt that they're directly involved in operating it.


It’s good to hear that you feel the owners can be easily identified as part of the investigation. Based on what you know so far, how likely do you think it is that the police or the investigating bodies will request this?
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby wez1927 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:22 pm

Something stinks about this plane
CARDIFF CITY TILL I DIE !
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby RageJon » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:47 pm

:bluescarf: wez1927 wrote:Something stinks about this plane


Posted a link 3 times over the last couple of weeks regarding the plane but not many people actually read about the actual aircraft and the plane as a whole.

The way I look at it is if it's dark outside and you know full well your lights are not working you don't drive !! Even if you are in dept and need to get to work.
Always Know If The Juice Is Worth The Squeeze !

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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby marky1927 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:50 pm

i think when you find the owners of this plane it will answer a lot of questions . why have any of the owners come out and expressed their sorrow and grief at what has happened in their plane after all two people have been killed, all they seem to do is try and hide their identities why, what have they got to hide ?
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby wez1927 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:58 pm

marky1927 wrote:i think when you find the owners of this plane it will answer a lot of questions . why have any of the owners come out and expressed their sorrow and grief at what has happened in their plane after all two people have been killed, all they seem to do is try and hide their identities why, what have they got to hide ?

I bet it's owned by the agents
CARDIFF CITY TILL I DIE !
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Sky High Bluebird » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:13 pm

marky1927 wrote:i think when you find the owners of this plane it will answer a lot of questions . why have any of the owners come out and expressed their sorrow and grief at what has happened in their plane after all two people have been killed, all they seem to do is try and hide their identities why, what have they got to hide ?


I think the threat of a CAA prosecution is why they are not proactively coming forward.

The aircraft involved will have a paper trail, someone at some point will have had to pay maintenance bills, handling charges and various administration charges related to owning an aircraft.

It might take time , but the ownership of the aircraft will eventually be revealed.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Le Monde » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:54 pm

Ça ne fait rien qui possède l'avion, il ne fait aucune différence. Les propriétaires d'avion peuvent louer des avions à qu'ils souhaitent.

La glace sera le facteur de l'accident et du fait le pilote ne devrait pas avoir volé la nuit en premier lieu.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby RageJon » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:03 pm

Le Monde wrote:Ça ne fait rien qui possède l'avion, il ne fait aucune différence. Les propriétaires d'avion peuvent louer des avions à qu'ils souhaitent.

La glace sera le facteur de l'accident et du fait le pilote ne devrait pas avoir volé la nuit en premier lieu.


nous comprenons qu'il n'aurait jamais dû être volé

nous travaillons ensemble et espérons qu'il y a justice
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby dogfound » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:52 pm

Dazzy wrote:Interesting. At least there are some ideas as to who may own the plane (albeit held back from being printed). Hopefully the investigation will identify the owners who need to be held to account



held to account for owning a plane ?


there are certainly plenty of questions , but at the moment they are just questions.
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Re: MISSING AIRCRAFT OWNER DETAILS WITHHELD FROM AUTHORITIES

Postby Ibby » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:00 am

One way the other everything will come out. Nobody can hide the information or do a runner, only saying it.
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