(OT) Welsh independence march.

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Welsh Independence

For
15
27%
Against
41
73%
 
Total votes : 56

Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:



And are you trying to suggest that Nigel Farage falls into this category ?

More so perhaps than Mr Junkers,who's father was a REAL Nazi and a war criminal ?
More so than the " founding fathers" of the EU who included a number of leading Nazis who wrote that this was the only remaining course open to create a "Grosse Deutchland", or new Reich ?
More so than George Soros who funds the remain campaign to carry on after a democratic vote , and who was a Nazi collaborator in Hungary, confiscating the property of Jews and sending them off to death camps ?

If you want I can give you sources for all this, by the way.

It's a shame that you want to hijack this thread to do a bit of extra mural remoaning, but if you insist we might as well base it on fact rather than some mind bending propoganda you've picked up from the media .
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Steve Zodiak » Thu May 16, 2019 4:57 pm

Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Thu May 16, 2019 5:21 pm

The programme was a factual documentary on children and grandchildren who have lived with a name that immediately raised images of genocide. I only saw it by chance. But as it was a very good programme, I looked it up in case anyone fancies watching it.

It was called Hitler's Children and was shown in Monday at 9pm on BBC4 (I assume it is also on i player).
:bluebird:
:thumbup:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby dogfound » Thu May 16, 2019 5:29 pm

Lengee wrote:The programme was a factual documentary on children and grandchildren who have lived with a name that immediately raised images of genocide. I only saw it by chance. But as it was a very good programme, I looked it up in case anyone fancies watching it.

It was called Hitler's Children and was shown in Monday at 9pm on BBC4 (I assume it is also on i player).
:bluebird:
:thumbup:



seeing as you now want to turn this into a sorta Barry Norman type thread..
game of thrones is pretty good too..
Last edited by dogfound on Thu May 16, 2019 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Andysince76 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:30 pm

Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Hey mate I didn't mean that you had labelled anybody. It's just that a lot of remainers seem to think the 17.4 million are a bit thick. I've seen a loads of "not welcome here" on twitter, and it just seems like shut down any other opinions, I'd like to hear all sides before I decide for myself. (btw it was the barry horns I was following) :occasion5:
Whatever's comfortable.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby rumpo kid » Thu May 16, 2019 5:34 pm

Simple solution to this..split Wales, the Gognats have the Welsh speaking north, we keep the English speaking south...
March around Wrexham all day long..

Everyone’s a winner...
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Jock » Thu May 16, 2019 5:53 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.

They don’t want freedom of speech and want to subvert the democratic process in this country.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby epping blue » Thu May 16, 2019 6:12 pm

rumpo kid wrote:Simple solution to this..split Wales, the Gognats have the Welsh speaking north, we keep the English speaking south...
March around Wrexham all day long..

Everyone’s a winner...



Wrexham had a very large leave vote as it happens.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Steve Zodiak » Thu May 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Jock wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.

They don’t want freedom of speech and want to subvert the democratic process in this country.


Makes you wonder Jock. If Brexit suppoerters were laying down in the road attempting to stop a remain campaign meeting, the BBC would be all over it. I may have missed it, but I'm not sure there has been any mention of Plaid supporters trying to stop a pefectly legal meeting last night, which to me means they are against free speech and democracy.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Steve Zodiak » Thu May 16, 2019 6:20 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Jock wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.

They don’t want freedom of speech and want to subvert the democratic process in this country.


Makes you wonder Jock. If Brexit supporters were laying down in the road attempting to stop a remain campaign meeting, the BBC would be all over it. I may have missed it, but I'm not sure there has been any mention of Plaid supporters trying to stop a pefectly legal meeting last night, which to me means they are against free speech and democracy.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby epping blue » Thu May 16, 2019 6:20 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.




Matt Kelly editor of the New European when describing a Farage rally advised " Bring a mop to clean up the leaked piss afterwards " . The BBC have chosen not to report it and to date I've not heard a single comment of condemnation from anyone on the remain side. The c**t should have been sacked but his comments are of course supported by his employers. Farage so much as steps on a crack in the pavement and its headline news.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby dogfound » Thu May 16, 2019 7:48 pm

CONGRATULATIONS LENGEE.

in turning a welsh independence thread into a EU thread..
why didn't you just start one ?
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Thu May 16, 2019 8:04 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:



And are you trying to suggest that Nigel Farage falls into this category ?

More so perhaps than Mr Junkers,who's father was a REAL Nazi and a war criminal ?
More so than the " founding fathers" of the EU who included a number of leading Nazis who wrote that this was the only remaining course open to create a "Grosse Deutchland", or new Reich ?
More so than George Soros who funds the remain campaign to carry on after a democratic vote , and who was a Nazi collaborator in Hungary, confiscating the property of Jews and sending them off to death camps ?

If you want I can give you sources for all this, by the way.

It's a shame that you want to hijack this thread to do a bit of extra mural remoaning, but if you insist we might as well base it on fact rather than some mind bending propoganda you've picked up from the media .


Dear Sir JS
I was not making out that Farage is a Nazi. Did you read the first sentence of my thread?!? :shock:
Also as I said in my subsequent thread, I only suggested that others might want to watch the programme Hitler's Children as it was very good. It highlights that you shouldn't judge children and grandchildren by the actions of their fathers/ grandfathers. THE VERY SAME THING THAT YOU ARE DOING IN YOUR THREAD! Also why do others just comment on the programme without actually watching it. There is no slant or agenda.
Sadly it seems none of you have or will bother watching it.
:bluebird:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 8:11 pm

Some people might be aware of stuff like that already or be doing something else.

However, what did you interpret as me blaming people's children or grandchildren for anything ?

I don't think I said anything like that did I ?
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Thu May 16, 2019 9:29 pm

You made allegations about Juncker saying "his father was a REAL Nazi and a war criminal." :o
So what if he was? I don't judge people on the actions of their fathers.I
BUT
To make matters worse your allegations don't even appear to be correct.
I looked into the link (as "you have the sources").
And so that there's no argument about bias this comes from the Telegraph 2014 (a Brexit supporting conservative paper)...... Mr Juncker
"Born in 1924 to a working class family, Mr Juncker’s father Joseph, a steel worker and a Christian trade unionist, was forcibly conscripted into the German Wehrmacht army during the War.

In 1942 over 10,000 Luxembourgers were forced to serve in the German army, prompting a nationwide general strike that was brutally crushed by the tiny Grand Duchy’s Nazi occupiers.

The wounds are still raw. In 1997, the Luxembourg leader wept in the margins of an EU summit with Ukraine recalling how his father was wounded fighting in Odessa under duress as a forced conscript in a Nazi army that he loathed.

Over 2,800 of the forced conscripts from Luxembourg died, a history that reinforces Mr Juncker’s mission to keep a reunified Germany bound to France within European structures, such as the euro.

Last month, his father, aged 90, who is frail and living in nursing home, wept when a radio station reported on The Sun newspaper’s allegation that he was the Juncker family’s “Nazi link”......"
.
As for this other guy called Soros he was born in Nazi Germany in 1930....in other words your Nazi collaborator was 9 when the war started and 14 when it ended. He has apparently given 100s of £millions to underprivileged children charities etc .
By the way I am NOT saying I agree with or support either of these men. And I don't mind you have a different opinion to me (we are all entitled to one!).
But I don't like people stating "facts" which are nothing of the sort.
:bluebird: :wave:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 pm

Lengee wrote:You made allegations about Juncker saying "his father was a REAL Nazi and a war criminal." :o
So what if he was? I don't judge people on the actions of their fathers.I
BUT
To make matters worse your allegations don't even appear to be correct.
I looked into the link (as "you have the sources").
And so that there's no argument about bias this comes from the Telegraph 2014 (a Brexit supporting conservative paper)...... Mr Juncker
"Born in 1924 to a working class family, Mr Juncker’s father Joseph, a steel worker and a Christian trade unionist, was forcibly conscripted into the German Wehrmacht army during the War.

In 1942 over 10,000 Luxembourgers were forced to serve in the German army, prompting a nationwide general strike that was brutally crushed by the tiny Grand Duchy’s Nazi occupiers.

The wounds are still raw. In 1997, the Luxembourg leader wept in the margins of an EU summit with Ukraine recalling how his father was wounded fighting in Odessa under duress as a forced conscript in a Nazi army that he loathed.

Over 2,800 of the forced conscripts from Luxembourg died, a history that reinforces Mr Juncker’s mission to keep a reunified Germany bound to France within European structures, such as the euro.

Last month, his father, aged 90, who is frail and living in nursing home, wept when a radio station reported on The Sun newspaper’s allegation that he was the Juncker family’s “Nazi link”......"
.
As for this other guy called Soros he was born in Nazi Germany in 1930....in other words your Nazi collaborator was 9 when the war started and 14 when it ended. He has apparently given 100s of £millions to underprivileged children charities etc .
By the way I am NOT saying I agree with or support either of these men. And I don't mind you have a different opinion to me (we are all entitled to one!).
But I don't like people stating "facts" which are nothing of the sort.
:bluebird: :wave:




Well you shouldn't enjoy the Junkers spin on the facts then. Men were conscripted into the Nazi forces from all over occupied Europe but many evaded that, which wasn't hard , either fighting for the resistance or coming to Britain to join Free French, Polish, Dutch or Belgian battalions. Some chose to go along with the occupiers and fought for them against their own countrymen.
When one of these rats is challenged years later, what do you expect them to say ? More so when they've got a team of political spin doctors trying to protect a high profile relative. There's much more to it than that though including profiteering and involvement with hunting down Jewish families .
You've googled it and found the cover story , that's all. I've done more research than that and I'm in no doubt where the truth lies. If you really want me to point you in the direction of records and stuff I will.

Similarly, I can post a clip of Soros admitting these things in a 1960s episode of '60 minutes' and going on to say that he didn't think it mattered. He's spent a lot of money trying to expunge and deny his crimes since then.

Incidentally, I didn't particularly vilify either of them on that, but compared your suggestion that by opposing the EU Nigel Farage is some kind of evil racist / nationalist to the backgrounds of those who front the EU itself.

If you really want to try and vindicate Junkers , Soros or the others I referred to you'll lose that argument but this is hardly the place since it's supposed to be about Welsh Nationalism.

I don't know how old you are, or how learned you are in the history of the hollocaust, but I get the impression that you shouldn't be pontificating on such a serious subject without knowing much about it. Indeed I hope you don't know too much about it and that you're speaking out of comparative ignorance, because otherwise you'd be defending the indefensible.

I'm sure you're well intentioned in your way, but these are not matters which can be overlooked no matter how much you want to influence opinion towards your own political view of today because it's even more serious than that.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Fri May 17, 2019 6:08 am

you are now trying to twist things and make me some sort of Nazi sympathisers. That is disgraceful.
The quote I made came from the Daily Telegraph. Hardly me putting a Junkers spin on the facts!. when I looked at the Soros allegations they include showing him in an SS uniform when it has been proved to be Oscar Groening an Aushwitz officer, and when he was 9 at the outbreak of war.

When someone challenges your "facts", it doesn't occur to you that you might be wrong! It's easier to Ignore them, move the goalposts, and try the "you aren't as old and as knowledgeable as me routine".
You try to use untrue" facts" relating to Ww2 so how can anyone trust your comments on Welsh history and the Welsh language! Without referring back I think you labelled Welsh Nationalists as a few nutters who grew their hair long and met in a hill in Pembrokeshire. Quite amusing but hardly fair or accurate.
As for your predictions that Wales could not survive as an independent country - I don't know, - but you do not have a good track record future outcomes.....10th position springs to mind!
Cymru am byth!
:wave:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Jock » Fri May 17, 2019 6:26 am

Lengee wrote:you are now trying to twist things and make me some sort of Nazi sympathisers. That is disgraceful.
The quote I made came from the Daily Telegraph. Hardly me putting a Junkers spin on the facts!. when I looked at the Soros allegations they include showing him in an SS uniform when it has been proved to be Oscar Groening an Aushwitz officer, and when he was 9 at the outbreak of war.

When someone challenges your "facts", it doesn't occur to you that you might be wrong! It's easier to Ignore them, move the goalposts, and try the "you aren't as old and as knowledgeable as me routine".
You try to use untrue" facts" relating to Ww2 so how can anyone trust your comments on Welsh history and the Welsh language! Without referring back I think you labelled Welsh Nationalists as a few nutters who grew their hair long and met in a hill in Pembrokeshire. Quite amusing but hardly fair or accurate.
As for your predictions that Wales could not survive as an independent country - I don't know, - but you do not have a good track record future outcomes.....10th position springs to mind!
Cymru am byth!
:wave:

Fact: Soros denied he was Jewish to save himself from the camps, he then sold the possessions of those who’d been transported to the camps. He shorted the £ causing it to crash and forcing us out of the ERM. He is a self serving parasitic sociopath who’s actions have harmed millions.
Junkers is an old alky who loves the EU project because he’s done so well out of it.
Welsh Nationalists tend to be crackpots.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby BlueGog » Fri May 17, 2019 7:18 am

SirJimmySchoular wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:



And are you trying to suggest that Nigel Farage falls into this category ?

More so perhaps than Mr Junkers,who's father was a REAL Nazi and a war criminal ?
More so than the " founding fathers" of the EU who included a number of leading Nazis who wrote that this was the only remaining course open to create a "Grosse Deutchland", or new Reich ?
More so than George Soros who funds the remain campaign to carry on after a democratic vote , and who was a Nazi collaborator in Hungary, confiscating the property of Jews and sending them off to death camps ?

If you want I can give you sources for all this, by the way.

It's a shame that you want to hijack this thread to do a bit of extra mural remoaning, but if you insist we might as well base it on fact rather than some mind bending propoganda you've picked up from the media .


I would suggest you check your facts and their source. Soros, who you mention would have been 14 when WW2 ended! Junkers and his family are from Luxembourg! You would be correct to describe them as Neo Liberals but not Nazis!!! That's the whole problem here isn't it, we've forgotten the true history and it's been manipulated and changed by chancers. Whether you're Brexit or Remain the fact is the EU was set up in the post war years to keep the peace and ensure that the continent would not be savaged by war again.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Fri May 17, 2019 7:21 am

Fact I knew nothing about Junckers father until SJS alleged he was a Real Nazi and war criminal. Fact : he was not. It seems that Juncker himself is a heavy drinker (that was not the discussion).
As for Soros I did not know of him until yesterday! so I make no comment about his polutics. But in view of SJSs allegations about him, I had a look. I have read (Fact:false allegations of him being in the SS, with made up pictures of him in Ss uniform). I know nothing about him personally and have no reason to defend him. But I did see this
"..Holocaust survivor and Anti-Defamation League Director Abraham Foxman stated in response to Glenn Beck’s attempted takedown of Soros

"Glenn Beck’s description of George Soros’ actions during the Holocaust is completely inappropriate, offensive and over the top. For a political commentator or entertainer to have the audacity to say – inaccurately – that there’s a Jewish boy sending Jews to death camps, as part of a broader assault on Mr. Soros, that’s horrific.

While I, too, may disagree with many of Soros’ views and analysis on the issues, to bring in this kind of innuendo about his past is unacceptable. To hold a young boy responsible for what was going on around him during the Holocaust as part of a larger effort to denigrate the man is repugnant.


Finally, "Welsh nationalists tend to be crackpots". That's your view, not a fact!

The Holocaust was a horrific time, and many people had to make excruciating choices to ensure their survival. I think it is wrong to fling allegations around and call people Nazis just to support a view whether left right or nationalist. :bluebird:

Anyway Hitler's Children was a good interesting programme! :roll:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby BlueGog » Fri May 17, 2019 7:23 am

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.


Looks like the Merthyr rally was a bit of a non-event! Compare it with last Saturdays independence march in Cardiff, oh and by the way the BBC didn't report that either!
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby BlueGog » Fri May 17, 2019 7:28 am

rumpo kid wrote:Simple solution to this..split Wales, the Gognats have the Welsh speaking north, we keep the English speaking south...
March around Wrexham all day long..

Everyone’s a winner...


Think you'll find that more speak Welsh in Cardiff that in the north. I believe it's 28% now.
1975 - 1 Welsh primary schools; 2019 - 15 Welsh primary schools
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby epping blue » Fri May 17, 2019 7:29 am

BlueGog wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.


Looks like the Merthyr rally was a bit of a non-event! Compare it with last Saturdays independence march in Cardiff, oh and by the way the BBC didn't report that either!




Thursday will provide an indication of strength of support for independence. Don't see it myself but of course I don't live there.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Jock » Fri May 17, 2019 8:17 am

Lengee wrote:Fact I knew nothing about Junckers father until SJS alleged he was a Real Nazi and war criminal. Fact : he was not. It seems that Juncker himself is a heavy drinker (that was not the discussion).
As for Soros I did not know of him until yesterday! so I make no comment about his polutics. But in view of SJSs allegations about him, I had a look. I have read (Fact:false allegations of him being in the SS, with made up pictures of him in Ss uniform). I know nothing about him personally and have no reason to defend him. But I did see this
"..Holocaust survivor and Anti-Defamation League Director Abraham Foxman stated in response to Glenn Beck’s attempted takedown of Soros

"Glenn Beck’s description of George Soros’ actions during the Holocaust is completely inappropriate, offensive and over the top. For a political commentator or entertainer to have the audacity to say – inaccurately – that there’s a Jewish boy sending Jews to death camps, as part of a broader assault on Mr. Soros, that’s horrific.

While I, too, may disagree with many of Soros’ views and analysis on the issues, to bring in this kind of innuendo about his past is unacceptable. To hold a young boy responsible for what was going on around him during the Holocaust as part of a larger effort to denigrate the man is repugnant.


Finally, "Welsh nationalists tend to be crackpots". That's your view, not a fact!

The Holocaust was a horrific time, and many people had to make excruciating choices to ensure their survival. I think it is wrong to fling allegations around and call people Nazis just to support a view whether left right or nationalist. :bluebird:

Anyway Hitler's Children was a good interesting programme! :roll:

I don’t do innuendo mate, what I say about Soros is fact, his first “business was selling stuff left behind by his co religionists, he has confirmed this himself.
Your correct, re Welsh Nationalism and crackpottery being comfortable bedfellows, that is only my opinion :lol:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Jock » Fri May 17, 2019 8:18 am

BlueGog wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:Simple solution to this..split Wales, the Gognats have the Welsh speaking north, we keep the English speaking south...
March around Wrexham all day long..

Everyone’s a winner...


Think you'll find that more speak Welsh in Cardiff that in the north. I believe it's 28% now.
1975 - 1 Welsh primary schools; 2019 - 15 Welsh primary schools

That’s wonderful I’m sure it will encourage badly needed DFI in Wales. :roll:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Fri May 17, 2019 9:16 am

Lengee wrote:you are now trying to twist things and make me some sort of Nazi sympathisers. That is disgraceful.
The quote I made came from the Daily Telegraph. Hardly me putting a Junkers spin on the facts!. when I looked at the Soros allegations they include showing him in an SS uniform when it has been proved to be Oscar Groening an Aushwitz officer, and when he was 9 at the outbreak of war.

When someone challenges your "facts", it doesn't occur to you that you might be wrong! It's easier to Ignore them, move the goalposts, and try the "you aren't as old and as knowledgeable as me routine".
You try to use untrue" facts" relating to Ww2 so how can anyone trust your comments on Welsh history and the Welsh language! Without referring back I think you labelled Welsh Nationalists as a few nutters who grew their hair long and met in a hill in Pembrokeshire. Quite amusing but hardly fair or accurate.
As for your predictions that Wales could not survive as an independent country - I don't know, - but you do not have a good track record future outcomes.....10th position springs to mind!
Cymru am byth!
:wave:



No I didn't say you were a Nazi sympathiser . I said you probably didn't understand the issues you addressed and that you'd accepted the first excuse you'd found on Google ( a suggestion you confirmed a bit later by saying you'd never heard of these issues till you read the post).
This is about the third time in this thread you've taken my words and interpreted them incorrectly . Either you have comprehension problems or you're being disingenuous .
I love the logic that because someone produced a photo of a Nazi who wasn't Soros, then it proves Soros wasn't a Nazi.

None of us can predict the future of course, and I'm sorry if you found my optimism about Cardiff City upsetting. In fact that was an effort to lift spirits as much as anything else, but nothing to do with this. There are good reasons to discount an independant Wales as possible and I shan't repeat them.

Now, you choose to believe the wrong people in my opinion - you may well say the same of me. The difference is that I look into things quite deeply for myself before forming an opinion.
Now, don't tell me that you do the same because you googled these issues and accepted the first piece of bullshit their algorithm fed you, and that was enough for you to bang a drum for Junkers and Soros. You simply didn't have time to have examined or spoken to any diverse or objective sources before you came back with the answers, so please don't claim to have dine so.

I wonder whether you've used similar methodologies to form opinions upon Welsh Nationslism and Brexit ? In fact, I'll venture an educated guess that you have.

I can't argue with someone who makes choices according to who they prefer to believe - generally the one telling them what they want to hear - rather than testing the information put in front of them .

I get the impression that you're quite young, but it's been my experience that those who are vulnerable to this line of thinking don't generally change their ways with experience or age , so I expect you'll continue to think whatever it is you think and I'm therefore not going to bang my head off a brick wall too much by offering you an alternative.

In the end then, we shall have to let people express themselves in the ballot box regarding Welsh independence and the EU , in the hope that their votes will be respected , and as far as the workings of the sinister sub plots of geo politics are concerned we shall have to agree to disagree. You believe whatever you choose to on the matter, because it's not my job to educate you in the world.
SirJimmySchoular
 
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Steve Zodiak » Fri May 17, 2019 9:17 am

BlueGog wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:


Of course we can bank on the BBC to have an unbiased view of things. Funny how they did not report last nights attempts in Merthyr to stop people getting to the Farage meeting by remainers who blocked the road, obviously these were people who do not believe in free speech.


Looks like the Merthyr rally was a bit of a non-event! Compare it with last Saturdays independence march in Cardiff, oh and by the way the BBC didn't report that either!


If you think that photograph in Trago Mills car park shows the total number who turned up, you really are living on a different planet. The actual speeches made are available for anyone to see, as are the people who attended. You can take a photograph of the CCS an hour before kick off and see very few fans in the ground, that does'nt mean it will be empty at kick off time. Lets see how Plaid perform in comparrison to a party that has only been in existence for a couple of months at next weeks elections.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby murphy » Fri May 17, 2019 9:38 am

BlueGog wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:Simple solution to this..split Wales, the Gognats have the Welsh speaking north, we keep the English speaking south...
March around Wrexham all day long..

Everyone’s a winner...


Think you'll find that more speak Welsh in Cardiff that in the north. I believe it's 28% now.
1975 - 1 Welsh primary schools; 2019 - 15 Welsh primary schools


I've started hearing Welsh being spoken more in Cardiff over the past 2 years.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby rumpo kid » Fri May 17, 2019 11:10 am

murphy wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:Simple solution to this..split Wales, the Gognats have the Welsh speaking north, we keep the English speaking south...
March around Wrexham all day long..

Everyone’s a winner...


Think you'll find that more speak Welsh in Cardiff that in the north. I believe it's 28% now.
1975 - 1 Welsh primary schools; 2019 - 15 Welsh primary schools


I believe means nothing at all, apart from the usual magical thinking. What is the source?
rumpo kid
 
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Fri May 17, 2019 11:17 am

Sir Jimmy
You made a comment that Junckers father was a Real Nazi and a war criminal. Rather than admitting you were wrong you chose to move the goalposts.
I was going to quote your last thread and answer it. But imho it was just long winded twaddle- and that's being kind.
All the best :bluebird:
And remember... :thumbup: Gorau prinder, prinder geiriau.
:wave:
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