(OT) Welsh independence march.

A forum for all things Cardiff City

Welsh Independence

For
15
27%
Against
41
73%
 
Total votes : 56

Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby rumpo kid » Tue May 14, 2019 7:13 pm

tcblue wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:That’s it then. I’m voting Plaid because Big Ben is having a refit..


Big Ben is more valuable to the London government than the entirety of Wales. Fact.

The temporary parliament in London will cost the same amount as 1/4 of the entire Welsh budget. And that is just on the temp accommodation.

Meanwhile, they can throw bungs of £1.2bn to Northern Ireland to keep their miserable government in power.

The entire system is designed to keep those outside of the south east isolated



So a bell is worth more than Wales... and a temporary parliament costs £3.5bn..

Naaah-ha ha.. you had me going then.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby RYANBLUE » Wed May 15, 2019 12:34 pm

its bad enough having welsh language forced on us now every day (40 years too late to make everybody speak it), could you just imagine if we did...… wed all be foreignors in our own country, not being able to answer the phone without google translate, not being able to order anything in restaurant...

No no no. Its bad enough the UK is twatting it up, lets at least go down together not as a tiny nation with nothing to gain.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Wed May 15, 2019 12:47 pm

montyblue wrote:SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

we could be independent if we really wanted to just the same as ireland
We have natural resources like water which is supplied to a lot of englands regions, but we have never been in charge of our resources,
Water and coal, have been run and controlled by westminster.
The crying shame was after the coal mines where shut no money was pumped into the welsh valleys
but regions in england yorkshire and Nottinghamshire money was pumped into those regions,
the honda factory and jcb where all built there to help the work force ,and concidering wales supplied most of the coal across the uk you would have thought an equal share would have come to wales.
But there was political dealings wales miners been the last out on strike and the nothern miners doing deals with the goverment had the investment, if they went back to work.
As regards the bigger picture of independence smaller countries than us manage, finland, iceland, and as i mentioned across the water ireland.

Wales by the way has never agreed to be run by england,scotland has hence the union flag,neither have we been taken over or conquered.

I love my country with a passion
But i have lots of english and ,scottish friends so i am not anti uk.



All very well Monty, but as I said earlier, Wales has never actually been a country. You can't compare it with Ireland , which has a very long history of independence and national identity and a very distinct cultural and biological heritage.
Similarly Finland and Iceland have a history, culture and language quite distinct from their neighbours and they're not a completely homogenised population like Wales.
What do you want me to be patriotic about ? We look to events traditions and history for this which is common with England if not the entire UK - England looks to a history and culture completely entwined with Wales too
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby JimCP91 » Wed May 15, 2019 1:58 pm

RYANBLUE wrote:its bad enough having welsh language forced on us now every day (40 years too late to make everybody speak it), could you just imagine if we did...… wed all be foreignors in our own country, not being able to answer the phone without google translate, not being able to order anything in restaurant...

No no no. Its bad enough the UK is twatting it up, lets at least go down together not as a tiny nation with nothing to gain.


Welsh isn't forced upon you, myself nor anybody else. Some people choose to speak Welsh and others decide to speak English. Welsh literature is the third oldest in Europe, it would be a crime for us to let it die off.

I don't know enough of the pro leave arguments right now to have an opinion but do I love the idea of an independent Wales.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby dogfound » Wed May 15, 2019 3:59 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:
montyblue wrote:SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

we could be independent if we really wanted to just the same as ireland
We have natural resources like water which is supplied to a lot of englands regions, but we have never been in charge of our resources,
Water and coal, have been run and controlled by westminster.
The crying shame was after the coal mines where shut no money was pumped into the welsh valleys
but regions in england yorkshire and Nottinghamshire money was pumped into those regions,
the honda factory and jcb where all built there to help the work force ,and concidering wales supplied most of the coal across the uk you would have thought an equal share would have come to wales.
But there was political dealings wales miners been the last out on strike and the nothern miners doing deals with the goverment had the investment, if they went back to work.
As regards the bigger picture of independence smaller countries than us manage, finland, iceland, and as i mentioned across the water ireland.

Wales by the way has never agreed to be run by england,scotland has hence the union flag,neither have we been taken over or conquered.

I love my country with a passion
But i have lots of english and ,scottish friends so i am not anti uk.



All very well Monty, but as I said earlier, Wales has never actually been a country. You can't compare it with Ireland , which has a very long history of independence and national identity and a very distinct cultural and biological heritage.
Similarly Finland and Iceland have a history, culture and language quite distinct from their neighbours and they're not a completely homogenised population like Wales.
What do you want me to be patriotic about ? We look to events traditions and history for this which is common with England if not the entire UK - England looks to a history and culture completely entwined with Wales too



and there in lies the problem..
most people beating this drum do not know our history , and are forever spouting ill thought out stuff like we can be sort of world leaders in exporting energy.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby tcblue » Wed May 15, 2019 6:11 pm

RYANBLUE wrote:its bad enough having welsh language forced on us now every day (40 years too late to make everybody speak it), could you just imagine if we did...… wed all be foreignors in our own country, not being able to answer the phone without google translate, not being able to order anything in restaurant...

No no no. Its bad enough the UK is twatting it up, lets at least go down together not as a tiny nation with nothing to gain.


Forced? Behave you sledge
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby tcblue » Wed May 15, 2019 6:16 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:
montyblue wrote:SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

we could be independent if we really wanted to just the same as ireland
We have natural resources like water which is supplied to a lot of englands regions, but we have never been in charge of our resources,
Water and coal, have been run and controlled by westminster.
The crying shame was after the coal mines where shut no money was pumped into the welsh valleys
but regions in england yorkshire and Nottinghamshire money was pumped into those regions,
the honda factory and jcb where all built there to help the work force ,and concidering wales supplied most of the coal across the uk you would have thought an equal share would have come to wales.
But there was political dealings wales miners been the last out on strike and the nothern miners doing deals with the goverment had the investment, if they went back to work.
As regards the bigger picture of independence smaller countries than us manage, finland, iceland, and as i mentioned across the water ireland.

Wales by the way has never agreed to be run by england,scotland has hence the union flag,neither have we been taken over or conquered.

I love my country with a passion
But i have lots of english and ,scottish friends so i am not anti uk.


All very well Monty, but as I said earlier, Wales has never actually been a country. You can't compare it with Ireland , which has a very long history of independence and national identity and a very distinct cultural and biological heritage.
Similarly Finland and Iceland have a history, culture and language quite distinct from their neighbours and they're not a completely homogenised population like Wales.
What do you want me to be patriotic about ? We look to events traditions and history for this which is common with England if not the entire UK - England looks to a history and culture completely entwined with Wales too


If Wales isn’t a country (and is therefore a region of England) then we should do the honorable thing and abolish our NATIONAL football team. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

I’ll just leave this here: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/bu ... s-16277366
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby WelshPatriot » Wed May 15, 2019 6:32 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:
montyblue wrote:SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

we could be independent if we really wanted to just the same as ireland
We have natural resources like water which is supplied to a lot of englands regions, but we have never been in charge of our resources,
Water and coal, have been run and controlled by westminster.
The crying shame was after the coal mines where shut no money was pumped into the welsh valleys
but regions in england yorkshire and Nottinghamshire money was pumped into those regions,
the honda factory and jcb where all built there to help the work force ,and concidering wales supplied most of the coal across the uk you would have thought an equal share would have come to wales.
But there was political dealings wales miners been the last out on strike and the nothern miners doing deals with the goverment had the investment, if they went back to work.
As regards the bigger picture of independence smaller countries than us manage, finland, iceland, and as i mentioned across the water ireland.

Wales by the way has never agreed to be run by england,scotland has hence the union flag,neither have we been taken over or conquered.

I love my country with a passion
But i have lots of english and ,scottish friends so i am not anti uk.



All very well Monty, but as I said earlier, Wales has never actually been a country. You can't compare it with Ireland , which has a very long history of independence and national identity and a very distinct cultural and biological heritage.
Similarly Finland and Iceland have a history, culture and language quite distinct from their neighbours and they're not a completely homogenised population like Wales.
What do you want me to be patriotic about ? We look to events traditions and history for this which is common with England if not the entire UK - England looks to a history and culture completely entwined with Wales too


Wales is a Country. That's a fact not made up twaddle.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby rumpo kid » Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 pm

I thought Prince Charles was the Guvnor round here..
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby CityBlue93 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:47 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:All very well Monty, but as I said earlier, Wales has never actually been a country. You can't compare it with Ireland , which has a very long history of independence and national identity and a very distinct cultural and biological heritage.
Similarly Finland and Iceland have a history, culture and language quite distinct from their neighbours and they're not a completely homogenised population like Wales.
What do you want me to be patriotic about ? We look to events traditions and history for this which is common with England if not the entire UK - England looks to a history and culture completely entwined with Wales too


Yeah you're right, Wales shouldn't be politically independent because we don't have enough of a 'distinct biological heritage' :roll:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 1:21 am

WelshPatriot wrote:
SirJimmySchoular wrote:
montyblue wrote:SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

we could be independent if we really wanted to just the same as ireland
We have natural resources like water which is supplied to a lot of englands regions, but we have never been in charge of our resources,
Water and coal, have been run and controlled by westminster.
The crying shame was after the coal mines where shut no money was pumped into the welsh valleys
but regions in england yorkshire and Nottinghamshire money was pumped into those regions,
the honda factory and jcb where all built there to help the work force ,and concidering wales supplied most of the coal across the uk you would have thought an equal share would have come to wales.
But there was political dealings wales miners been the last out on strike and the nothern miners doing deals with the goverment had the investment, if they went back to work.
As regards the bigger picture of independence smaller countries than us manage, finland, iceland, and as i mentioned across the water ireland.

Wales by the way has never agreed to be run by england,scotland has hence the union flag,neither have we been taken over or conquered.

I love my country with a passion
But i have lots of english and ,scottish friends so i am not anti uk.



All very well Monty, but as I said earlier, Wales has never actually been a country. You can't compare it with Ireland , which has a very long history of independence and national identity and a very distinct cultural and biological heritage.
Similarly Finland and Iceland have a history, culture and language quite distinct from their neighbours and they're not a completely homogenised population like Wales.
What do you want me to be patriotic about ? We look to events traditions and history for this which is common with England if not the entire UK - England looks to a history and culture completely entwined with Wales too


Wales is a Country. That's a fact not made up twaddle.


But it's simply not. Nor can you make it so merely by saying it.
It's never had a King , a government , an army or even fixed borders. There was briefly a kingdom of Powys a long time ago, but that's the closest. It was the western edge of Brittania to which successive races and nations fled from successive invaders and which these invaders didn't generally bother to conquer - bandit country if you like.
The "Welsh" language isn't even particularly Welsh. It was the common language of the Ancient Britons in addition to their tribal dialects and it survived in Wales for the reasons above .
Edward Longshshanks tamed the land to some extent, building castles and protected settlements, but a lot if it remained wild and unused.
In more recent times civilisation and the rule of law gradually but eventually swallowed the remaining ungovernable parcels of land up, but without any resistance or resentment and here we are . In the 19th and early 20th centuries the largely unpopulated south east and valleys attracted workers from all over the UK and abroad to work in mining, steel and the docks.
If you live in Cardiff or the valleys , it's most likely that your ancestry is from these incomers, not the 500/800 people who lived there before that.

I'm sorry , but these are the facts. I didn't make them up and it's not an opinion or a political position - it's just the truth.
Now, given that, how can you possibly persist with your statement ?

If anyone thinks Wales is a country which might exist independently I'm afraid that they're the victims of the divisive identity politics of recent decades and an education system which is at best dumbed down and at worst deliberately political.

I'm sure that there will be those so immersed in this vague fantasy of a non existant history and entirely imagined victimisation by their own great grandparents that they'll see me as an enemy - maybe one of these English oppressors who also don't exist. That's not true or fair though . I'm just the one telling you the truth because you can't succeed if your building your plans on fantasy version of the world ,
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Jock » Thu May 16, 2019 6:42 am

tcblue wrote:
RYANBLUE wrote:its bad enough having welsh language forced on us now every day (40 years too late to make everybody speak it), could you just imagine if we did...… wed all be foreignors in our own country, not being able to answer the phone without google translate, not being able to order anything in restaurant...

No no no. Its bad enough the UK is twatting it up, lets at least go down together not as a tiny nation with nothing to gain.


Forced? Behave you sledge

The Welsh language is forced on us, even on BBC they push it. It’s insular, pointless and costs a fortune. The money could be much better spent elsewhere. Instead of teaching kids a major language they’re pushing a pointless dead language that’s no use unless you work in the media or want to visit Patagonia.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby montyblue » Thu May 16, 2019 6:57 am

SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

your are very selective with your so called facts i don' t want to get into a slagging match of my facts and your' s etc
But to pick out just one, without trawling throught the lot
You said the welsh are not really welsh, they are the ancient britains.
The ancient britions are the welsh brithonic,the welsh was the spoken word throughout the land
Like i said we can all pick out a few things to bolster our opinion what is fact and i don't want to get into a row
May i suggest you read "Terry Breverton's" book on the "welsh"
As one example which might enlighten you, which is a exellent book.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby montyblue » Thu May 16, 2019 7:04 am

JOCK
The english language was forced on the welsh for many years
Including my grandparents
who never spoke a word of english

If the english was a dying language
Do you think the english people would not bother trying to preserve
there language and culture.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 7:53 am

montyblue wrote:SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

your are very selective with your so called facts i don' t want to get into a slagging match of my facts and your' s etc
But to pick out just one, without trawling throught the lot
You said the welsh are not really welsh, they are the ancient britains.
The ancient britions are the welsh brithonic,the welsh was the spoken word throughout the land
Like i said we can all pick out a few things to bolster our opinion what is fact and i don't want to get into a row
May i suggest you read "Terry Breverton's" book on the "welsh"
As one example which might enlighten you, which is a exellent book.




You've got to be a bit selective if you're going to cover the history of Wales in about three paragraphs . I wasn't picking and choosing to substantiate an opinion against the facts though.

I said the Welsh language was that of the Ancient Britons and not specific to Wales, which is pretty much also what you said.

Look, no ones going to get into a row - facts are true or not true and there's no need for anyone to fall out about them. What happened happened and what didn't didn't .

I haven't read that book and to be honest I'm unlikely to find the time, but I've seen various things like that which generally do exactly what you accuse me of - picking up on a few somewhat vague sources and patching them together to make the case you want to. I'd be the last person to brush aside any book without reading it usually, but the evidence against the idea of Wales being a distinct and separate country is so overwhelming that I can't imagine it'd be convincing. It'd be such a dramatic turn around in the history of Britain and every country Europe that it'd be headline news worldwide !

If you can give some examples of Wales acting as a country rather than an area or territory not under specific rule by anyone including itself I'll be most interested to hear it, but I don't think you can.
Once again, please don't get annoyed with me for telling you this. It's not a matter of what I wish to be the case or otherwise, it's just the truth.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Jock » Thu May 16, 2019 8:04 am

montyblue wrote:JOCK
The english language was forced on the welsh for many years
Including my grandparents
who never spoke a word of english

If the english was a dying language
Do you think the english people would not bother trying to preserve
there language and culture.

The older I get the less patriotic I get, I grew up believing Bonnie Prince Charlie was a hero and a freedom fighter, in truth he was a power hungry ponce.
I have no problem people speaking or indeed learning Welsh, I do however believe too much money is spent on it. I’m sat in a hotel in Cádiz at the moment, I’ve been struggling for years to learn Spanish and think teaching kids that, German, Italian or Mandarin would be far more beneficial. I get the cultural importance of the Welsh Language but as a cold soulless pragmatist :lol: I find it all a bit silly, it’s driven by Welsh Nationalists who want to break up the U.K., replacing “English rule” with Brussels rule.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 8:08 am

Jock wrote:
tcblue wrote:
RYANBLUE wrote:its bad enough having welsh language forced on us now every day (40 years too late to make everybody speak it), could you just imagine if we did...… wed all be foreignors in our own country, not being able to answer the phone without google translate, not being able to order anything in restaurant...

No no no. Its bad enough the UK is twatting it up, lets at least go down together not as a tiny nation with nothing to gain.


Forced? Behave you sledge

The Welsh language is forced on us, even on BBC they push it. It’s insular, pointless and costs a fortune. The money could be much better spent elsewhere. Instead of teaching kids a major language they’re pushing a pointless dead language that’s no use unless you work in the media or want to visit Patagonia.



And it's the same in Scotland. They have BBC Alba which practically no one understands. I once watched Celtic and Rangers in the local form of Gaelic and I was understanding it completely by half time because , as I said in another posts, it's from exactly the same root as Welsh and as similar really as Dutch is to Afrikanns.
They're doing bilingual road signs and there's some discontentment because they're doing that in parts of the country where the language has never been spoken. In Orkney for example they spoke an old form of Norwegian called Norn before they spoke English , yet they have this old Celtic language foisted upon them.
Now you point something very important out. One of my great grandmothers didn't speak English but discouraged me and other kids from speaking Welsh routinely because she wanted them to have opportunities in the world . Resultantly I can address people in the USA, Canada, Australia and also intake their literature instead of being restricted to an audience of a few hundred or thousand people up a hill in Pembrokeshire !
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 8:18 am

Jock wrote:
montyblue wrote:JOCK
The english language was forced on the welsh for many years
Including my grandparents
who never spoke a word of english

If the english was a dying language
Do you think the english people would not bother trying to preserve
there language and culture.

The older I get the less patriotic I get, I grew up believing Bonnie Prince Charlie was a hero and a freedom fighter, in truth he was a power hungry ponce.
I have no problem people speaking or indeed learning Welsh, I do however believe too much money is spent on it. I’m sat in a hotel in Cádiz at the moment, I’ve been struggling for years to learn Spanish and think teaching kids that, German, Italian or Mandarin would be far more beneficial. I get the cultural importance of the Welsh Language but as a cold soulless pragmatist :lol: I find it all a bit silly, it’s driven by Welsh Nationalists who want to break up the U.K., replacing “English rule” with Brussels rule.


Quite right, and thank you for confirming my assumption that you're Scottish, having just addressed you on Caledonian matters !
Like you I was amased when I first studied the Jacobite rebellion that Charles Stewart was all you said plus the aggressor who brought down the world upon the heads of those who called him Chieftain before sodding back off to Europe for another soddomy fest !
It's also relevant to this discussion to compare Scotland , which certainly has existed as a separate nation with Wales, which certainly has not .
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby dogfound » Thu May 16, 2019 10:05 am

tcblue wrote:
SirJimmySchoular wrote:
montyblue wrote:SIR JIMMY SCHOULAR

we could be independent if we really wanted to just the same as ireland
We have natural resources like water which is supplied to a lot of englands regions, but we have never been in charge of our resources,
Water and coal, have been run and controlled by westminster.
The crying shame was after the coal mines where shut no money was pumped into the welsh valleys
but regions in england yorkshire and Nottinghamshire money was pumped into those regions,
the honda factory and jcb where all built there to help the work force ,and concidering wales supplied most of the coal across the uk you would have thought an equal share would have come to wales.
But there was political dealings wales miners been the last out on strike and the nothern miners doing deals with the goverment had the investment, if they went back to work.
As regards the bigger picture of independence smaller countries than us manage, finland, iceland, and as i mentioned across the water ireland.

Wales by the way has never agreed to be run by england,scotland has hence the union flag,neither have we been taken over or conquered.

I love my country with a passion
But i have lots of english and ,scottish friends so i am not anti uk.


All very well Monty, but as I said earlier, Wales has never actually been a country. You can't compare it with Ireland , which has a very long history of independence and national identity and a very distinct cultural and biological heritage.
Similarly Finland and Iceland have a history, culture and language quite distinct from their neighbours and they're not a completely homogenised population like Wales.
What do you want me to be patriotic about ? We look to events traditions and history for this which is common with England if not the entire UK - England looks to a history and culture completely entwined with Wales too


If Wales isn’t a country (and is therefore a region of England) then we should do the honorable thing and abolish our NATIONAL football team. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

I’ll just leave this here: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/bu ... s-16277366



so a bloke who set up a TV production company whose core business is to produce welsh language programs that are bought by a company that is government subsidised and not watched by enough people for it to be financially viable otherwise thinks it a good idea to be independent so we can have more of the same ...gee whiz.

do we need more of this...NO.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby WelshPatriot » Thu May 16, 2019 11:42 am

Jimmy keep spouting Wales isn't a Country and ignore simple facts:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 1:07 pm

WelshPatriot wrote:Jimmy keep spouting Wales isn't a Country and ignore simple facts:



Strange to choose Wales Online to rebut pretty much the entirety of European History, the accepted definition of a sovereign nation and the lack of any ability to sustain a country in terms of economics, defence or administration.

You seem annoyed with me for disturbing your dream with the hard facts. I didn't personally create any of these factors, I'm just telling you what they are.

I hesitate to bring politics into it, but I think you've been the victim of a very divisive strain of that dark art. It's been the way if things for a long time now to destroy Britain from within partially by creating as many divisions and discontentments as possible in order to " divide and conquer".

In my youth there were a few Welsh Nationalists, but they were regarded as complete nut cases who grew their hair longer than was then customary and wrote atrocious poems . This fringe lunacy has been nicely exploited and fed by the same people who encourage black v white, north v south and men v women amongst other myriad shit stirring ventures.

Rather than just gainsaying me with unsupportable strap lines, tell us stuff like where the capital of Wales was , which kings of Wales were crowned there, what were their names and what did they achieve ? What was the main historical impact of this fictitious country ? What was its relationship with other countries in Europe such as France and Germany ?
What was the religion there and did it take part in the crusades for example ? Who were its ambassadors to the Vatican and what position did it take in the Reformation ?
Who was the Roman Governor during that age and was it a client state of Rome ?
How big was its navy and which colonies did it establish when every European country was doing that ?

These are all questions you could answer if there were answers ,but obviously you couldn't , so regard them as rhetorical ones.

See, I don't want to be cast as the nasty collaborator who's pissing on your bonfire or trying to deny you your freedom, but you're making me sound like that with these frankly childish slogans and some strange refusal to acknowledge reality.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby dogfound » Thu May 16, 2019 1:17 pm

WelshPatriot wrote:Jimmy keep spouting Wales isn't a Country and ignore simple facts:



I consider myself as Welsh, but do not see anyone disputing most of what Jimmy says tbh other than post other peoples opinions..
i really do not get the scramble by some , mostly people that do not have pure welsh heritage for independence..
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Thu May 16, 2019 3:55 pm

I enjoy reading some posts on here even if some contributors appear to be on the wrong thread.

As yet, I am unaware of any thread with the title...

Nigel Farage: evil nationalist or just misguided? Discuss

BUT Sir Jimmy Schoular seems to be contributing to that debate when he says(and I quote)...
" hesitate to bring politics into it, but I think you've been the victim of a very divisive strain of that dark art. It's been the way if things for a long time now to destroy Britain from within partially by creating as many divisions and discontentments as possible in order to " divide and conquer".
I agree that Nigel Farage has been guilty of lying and deceiving the public and sadly his ugly brand of English gung ho colonial, imperialist nationalism .... has been "a very divisive strain of the dark art" However, this topic is about Welsh nationalism which is modern and outlook lookung. It does not have the evil racist connotations of Mr Farage and his motley crew.I
But hey thanks for the contribution :bluebird: :thumbup:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Steve Zodiak » Thu May 16, 2019 4:01 pm

Lengee wrote:I enjoy reading some posts on here even if some contributors appear to be on the wrong thread.

As yet, I am unaware of any thread with the title...

Nigel Farage: evil nationalist or just misguided? Discuss

BUT Sir Jimmy Schoular seems to be contributing to that debate when he says(and I quote)...
" hesitate to bring politics into it, but I think you've been the victim of a very divisive strain of that dark art. It's been the way if things for a long time now to destroy Britain from within partially by creating as many divisions and discontentments as possible in order to " divide and conquer".
I agree that Nigel Farage has been guilty of lying and deceiving the public and sadly his ugly brand of English gung ho colonial, imperialist nationalism .... has been "a very divisive strain of the dark art" However, this topic is about Welsh nationalism which is modern and outlook lookung. It does not have the evil racist connotations of Mr Farage and his motley crew.I
But hey thanks for the contribution :bluebird: :thumbup:


I think after next weeks elections you will find that a lot of people do not share your point of view.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Thu May 16, 2019 4:09 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
Lengee wrote:I enjoy reading some posts on here even if some contributors appear to be on the wrong thread.

As yet, I am unaware of any thread with the title...

Nigel Farage: evil nationalist or just misguided? Discuss

BUT Sir Jimmy Schoular seems to be contributing to that debate when he says(and I quote)...
" hesitate to bring politics into it, but I think you've been the victim of a very divisive strain of that dark art. It's been the way if things for a long time now to destroy Britain from within partially by creating as many divisions and discontentments as possible in order to " divide and conquer".
I agree that Nigel Farage has been guilty of lying and deceiving the public and sadly his ugly brand of English gung ho colonial, imperialist nationalism .... has been "a very divisive strain of the dark art" However, this topic is about Welsh nationalism which is modern and outlook lookung. It does not have the evil racist connotations of Mr Farage and his motley crew.I
But hey thanks for the contribution :bluebird: :thumbup:


I think after next weeks elections you will find that a lot of people do not share your point of view.


In that, we agree! :bluebird:
Lengee
 
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Andysince76 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:16 pm

I followed some nationalists on twitter because I wanted to know what they wanted, I'm not educated on the subject enough to go deeply into it. However, I've stopped because it seems that they are very much like most remainers (I voted remain) in so much as they like to label anyone in disagreement as a vile Nazi that should not be allowed a voice etc.

I also don't understand how, replacing Westminster for Brussels makes for a true independent Wales.

Not trying to undermine anyones arguements for or against, it just seems strange to me.
Whatever's comfortable.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Thu May 16, 2019 4:44 pm

Lengee wrote:I enjoy reading some posts on here even if some contributors appear to be on the wrong thread.

As yet, I am unaware of any thread with the title...

Nigel Farage: evil nationalist or just misguided? Discuss

BUT Sir Jimmy Schoular seems to be contributing to that debate when he says(and I quote)...
" hesitate to bring politics into it, but I think you've been the victim of a very divisive strain of that dark art. It's been the way if things for a long time now to destroy Britain from within partially by creating as many divisions and discontentments as possible in order to " divide and conquer".
I agree that Nigel Farage has been guilty of lying and deceiving the public and sadly his ugly brand of English gung ho colonial, imperialist nationalism .... has been "a very divisive strain of the dark art" However, this topic is about Welsh nationalism which is modern and outlook lookung. It does not have the evil racist connotations of Mr Farage and his motley crew.I
But hey thanks for the contribution :bluebird: :thumbup:



I'm glad you liked it, but as you even point out yourself, it's got nothing whatever to do with Nigel or Brexit.
Quite the opposite in fact. I'm pointing out ,accurately , that Wales isn't able to function as a sovereign nation whilst Remoaners try to convince us, erroneously, that the same is true of the U.K.
In fact the existence of the U.K. as a country is certain and will pass all the tests I put to the question of whether Wales is one.

It's also very important to note that I didn't attack the concept of nationalism at all, but merely pointed out that it's not possible for Wales.
Of course I didn't apply any of the ridiculous emotive slurs you introduced to anyone, never mind Nigel Farage.

I won't say it was a nice try to twist my words, but it certainly was a try , wasn't it ?

It failed for the same reason that Nigel tends to prevail in arguments - that I'm simply telling you the truth rather than introduce a lot of old bollocks and six dollar words to avoid the original question and somehow mesmerise the audience into going along with something which offends their common sense and insults their intelligence.
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby Lengee » Thu May 16, 2019 4:45 pm

Thank you for your comments Andysince76. They seem fair enough. However I certainly have not labelled anyone as a vile Nazi.

By the way, I watched a programme about descendants of the top Nazis on BBC 4 and it was very thought provoking and emotional. Worth watching on iplayer.
A stark reminder of where narrow minded racist nationalism can lead given strong leaders preaching hate in troubled economic times.
:bluebird:
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby dogfound » Thu May 16, 2019 4:52 pm

Lengee wrote:I enjoy reading some posts on here even if some contributors appear to be on the wrong thread.

As yet, I am unaware of any thread with the title...

Nigel Farage: evil nationalist or just misguided? Discuss

BUT Sir Jimmy Schoular seems to be contributing to that debate when he says(and I quote)...
" hesitate to bring politics into it, but I think you've been the victim of a very divisive strain of that dark art. It's been the way if things for a long time now to destroy Britain from within partially by creating as many divisions and discontentments as possible in order to " divide and conquer".
I agree that Nigel Farage has been guilty of lying and deceiving the public and sadly his ugly brand of English gung ho colonial, imperialist nationalism .... has been "a very divisive strain of the dark art" However, this topic is about Welsh nationalism which is modern and outlook lookung. It does not have the evil racist connotations of Mr Farage and his motley crew.I
But hey thanks for the contribution :bluebird: :thumbup:



been desperate for a EU elections thread to attack Farage but could wait no longer, so Jimmys divide and conquer post was close enough.... :lol: :lol:

nobody has mentioned Farage
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Re: (OT) Welsh independence march.

Postby WelshPatriot » Thu May 16, 2019 4:54 pm

SirJimmySchoular wrote:
WelshPatriot wrote:Jimmy keep spouting Wales isn't a Country and ignore simple facts:



Strange to choose Wales Online to rebut pretty much the entirety of European History, the accepted definition of a sovereign nation and the lack of any ability to sustain a country in terms of economics, defence or administration.

You seem annoyed with me for disturbing your dream with the hard facts. I didn't personally create any of these factors, I'm just telling you what they are.

I hesitate to bring politics into it, but I think you've been the victim of a very divisive strain of that dark art. It's been the way if things for a long time now to destroy Britain from within partially by creating as many divisions and discontentments as possible in order to " divide and conquer".

In my youth there were a few Welsh Nationalists, but they were regarded as complete nut cases who grew their hair longer than was then customary and wrote atrocious poems . This fringe lunacy has been nicely exploited and fed by the same people who encourage black v white, north v south and men v women amongst other myriad shit stirring ventures.

Rather than just gainsaying me with unsupportable strap lines, tell us stuff like where the capital of Wales was , which kings of Wales were crowned there, what were their names and what did they achieve ? What was the main historical impact of this fictitious country ? What was its relationship with other countries in Europe such as France and Germany ?
What was the religion there and did it take part in the crusades for example ? Who were its ambassadors to the Vatican and what position did it take in the Reformation ?
Who was the Roman Governor during that age and was it a client state of Rome ?
How big was its navy and which colonies did it establish when every European country was doing that ?

These are all questions you could answer if there were answers ,but obviously you couldn't , so regard them as rhetorical ones.

See, I don't want to be cast as the nasty collaborator who's pissing on your bonfire or trying to deny you your freedom, but you're making me sound like that with these frankly childish slogans and some strange refusal to acknowledge reality.


Firstly I don't want an Independent Wales, let's get that put to bed straight away.

Secondly Wales has been a recognised country since 2011 any "history" before then in this case is irrelevant.It is a Country.
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