SirJimmySchoular wrote:It was more than a favour because the guy who acted as the middle man made a BBC documentary over a year earlier more or less boasting that it was easy to get round the rules .
I said at the outset that this'd be one of the multifarious outcomes of the whole affair, and that it'd open the door to litigation against a number of new defendants for liability plus a new area of defence for all parties including the club.
dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It was more than a favour because the guy who acted as the middle man made a BBC documentary over a year earlier more or less boasting that it was easy to get round the rules .
I said at the outset that this'd be one of the multifarious outcomes of the whole affair, and that it'd open the door to litigation against a number of new defendants for liability plus a new area of defence for all parties including the club.
I haven't seen the documentary but thought it was about ferrying planes not people ?
SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It was more than a favour because the guy who acted as the middle man made a BBC documentary over a year earlier more or less boasting that it was easy to get round the rules .
I said at the outset that this'd be one of the multifarious outcomes of the whole affair, and that it'd open the door to litigation against a number of new defendants for liability plus a new area of defence for all parties including the club.
I haven't seen the documentary but thought it was about ferrying planes not people ?
Yeah it is, you're quite right, but the general sub text is that you can do what the f**k you like if you know how to play the system. I watched it briefly on the recommendation of a BBC reporter I was discussing the case with just after the crash and it was obvious to all concerned that it was the key to guessing what had happened regarding cowboy operating of private aeroplanes, even though it obviously didn't address the Sala crash which hadn't happened yet.
Many many years ago , during holidays, I used to drive a taxi round Cardiff without even having a driving licence , never mind anything like the proper documents and that was commonplace in those days.( I'm talking a long time ago )
No one cared much really till some 18 year old smashed through the front of a chemists shop one day and then they started to do a bit of enforcement . Same with HGV's if you go back far enough.
Same story here I expect . People taking the absolute piss with safety and regulations till someone without the proper documents and insurances causes a big problem ,then they suddenly start enforcing the rules .
dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It was more than a favour because the guy who acted as the middle man made a BBC documentary over a year earlier more or less boasting that it was easy to get round the rules .
I said at the outset that this'd be one of the multifarious outcomes of the whole affair, and that it'd open the door to litigation against a number of new defendants for liability plus a new area of defence for all parties including the club.
I haven't seen the documentary but thought it was about ferrying planes not people ?
Yeah it is, you're quite right, but the general sub text is that you can do what the f**k you like if you know how to play the system. I watched it briefly on the recommendation of a BBC reporter I was discussing the case with just after the crash and it was obvious to all concerned that it was the key to guessing what had happened regarding cowboy operating of private aeroplanes, even though it obviously didn't address the Sala crash which hadn't happened yet.
Many many years ago , during holidays, I used to drive a taxi round Cardiff without even having a driving licence , never mind anything like the proper documents and that was commonplace in those days.( I'm talking a long time ago )
No one cared much really till some 18 year old smashed through the front of a chemists shop one day and then they started to do a bit of enforcement . Same with HGV's if you go back far enough.
Same story here I expect . People taking the absolute piss with safety and regulations till someone without the proper documents and insurances causes a big problem ,then they suddenly start enforcing the rules .
its extremely difficult to enforce when there are double rules.....eg
I assume you have a D1 ?...you can go, hire a minibus and you and 9 mates can legally share the hire cost..diesel..and you can drive non stop for 36 hours to Budapest { legally I think its 11 hours max for pro drivers which you are not, so are not legally required to abide by } for the wales game = legal..or you charge them 20 quid each over and above hire/diesel = illegal..to prove that it would take either you to admit payment or a mate on the trip to grass you up...
SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It was more than a favour because the guy who acted as the middle man made a BBC documentary over a year earlier more or less boasting that it was easy to get round the rules .
I said at the outset that this'd be one of the multifarious outcomes of the whole affair, and that it'd open the door to litigation against a number of new defendants for liability plus a new area of defence for all parties including the club.
I haven't seen the documentary but thought it was about ferrying planes not people ?
Yeah it is, you're quite right, but the general sub text is that you can do what the f**k you like if you know how to play the system. I watched it briefly on the recommendation of a BBC reporter I was discussing the case with just after the crash and it was obvious to all concerned that it was the key to guessing what had happened regarding cowboy operating of private aeroplanes, even though it obviously didn't address the Sala crash which hadn't happened yet.
Many many years ago , during holidays, I used to drive a taxi round Cardiff without even having a driving licence , never mind anything like the proper documents and that was commonplace in those days.( I'm talking a long time ago )
No one cared much really till some 18 year old smashed through the front of a chemists shop one day and then they started to do a bit of enforcement . Same with HGV's if you go back far enough.
Same story here I expect . People taking the absolute piss with safety and regulations till someone without the proper documents and insurances causes a big problem ,then they suddenly start enforcing the rules .
its extremely difficult to enforce when there are double rules.....eg
I assume you have a D1 ?...you can go, hire a minibus and you and 9 mates can legally share the hire cost..diesel..and you can drive non stop for 36 hours to Budapest { legally I think its 11 hours max for pro drivers which you are not, so are not legally required to abide by } for the wales game = legal..or you charge them 20 quid each over and above hire/diesel = illegal..to prove that it would take either you to admit payment or a mate on the trip to grass you up...
No, that was 40 or 50 years ago. I didn't pursue that career, just a holiday job which I lied to get, although I did later get a private hire and Hackney licence down there when they started cracking down and actually I got an HGV 1 in the army too, but that was all in another long ago place.
I see what you're saying though and of course you're quite right that it's exactly the same sort of thing.
2blue2handle wrote:I thought the agent guy McKay confirmed in the BBC interview that he had paid for the flight.
dogfound wrote:2blue2handle wrote:I thought the agent guy McKay confirmed in the BBC interview that he had paid for the flight.
if he said that he is f@@ked...unless he throws someone under a bus and claims no knowledge of the flight not being legal..
2blue2handle wrote:dogfound wrote:2blue2handle wrote:I thought the agent guy McKay confirmed in the BBC interview that he had paid for the flight.
if he said that he is f@@ked...unless he throws someone under a bus and claims no knowledge of the flight not being legal..
I'm sure he did, it was a filmed BBC interview with him and they asked the question directly because of the flight sharing fuel cost thing that came out.
dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It was more than a favour because the guy who acted as the middle man made a BBC documentary over a year earlier more or less boasting that it was easy to get round the rules .
I said at the outset that this'd be one of the multifarious outcomes of the whole affair, and that it'd open the door to litigation against a number of new defendants for liability plus a new area of defence for all parties including the club.
I haven't seen the documentary but thought it was about ferrying planes not people ?
Yeah it is, you're quite right, but the general sub text is that you can do what the f**k you like if you know how to play the system. I watched it briefly on the recommendation of a BBC reporter I was discussing the case with just after the crash and it was obvious to all concerned that it was the key to guessing what had happened regarding cowboy operating of private aeroplanes, even though it obviously didn't address the Sala crash which hadn't happened yet.
Many many years ago , during holidays, I used to drive a taxi round Cardiff without even having a driving licence , never mind anything like the proper documents and that was commonplace in those days.( I'm talking a long time ago )
No one cared much really till some 18 year old smashed through the front of a chemists shop one day and then they started to do a bit of enforcement . Same with HGV's if you go back far enough.
Same story here I expect . People taking the absolute piss with safety and regulations till someone without the proper documents and insurances causes a big problem ,then they suddenly start enforcing the rules .
its extremely difficult to enforce when there are double rules.....eg
I assume you have a D1 ?...you can go, hire a minibus and you and 9 mates can legally share the hire cost..diesel..and you can drive non stop for 36 hours to Budapest { legally I think its 11 hours max for pro drivers which you are not, so are not legally required to abide by } for the wales game = legal..or you charge them 20 quid each over and above hire/diesel = illegal..to prove that it would take either you to admit payment or a mate on the trip to grass you up...
No, that was 40 or 50 years ago. I didn't pursue that career, just a holiday job which I lied to get, although I did later get a private hire and Hackney licence down there when they started cracking down and actually I got an HGV 1 in the army too, but that was all in another long ago place.
I see what you're saying though and of course you're quite right that it's exactly the same sort of thing.
if you passed your driving test prior to a certain date ...I think its late 1990s you have D1 on licence which allows you to drive a vehicle carrying upto 16 passengers but not be payed to do so...no max driving hours or max length of driving days , no enforced days off and not even restricted to 62mph either...so id imagine its very difficult to enforce and sounds a lot like these plane journeys...where a flight can be totally legal for friends/ family or as a favour..and completely illegal if paid for..
SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:dogfound wrote:SirJimmySchoular wrote:It was more than a favour because the guy who acted as the middle man made a BBC documentary over a year earlier more or less boasting that it was easy to get round the rules .
I said at the outset that this'd be one of the multifarious outcomes of the whole affair, and that it'd open the door to litigation against a number of new defendants for liability plus a new area of defence for all parties including the club.
I haven't seen the documentary but thought it was about ferrying planes not people ?
Yeah it is, you're quite right, but the general sub text is that you can do what the f**k you like if you know how to play the system. I watched it briefly on the recommendation of a BBC reporter I was discussing the case with just after the crash and it was obvious to all concerned that it was the key to guessing what had happened regarding cowboy operating of private aeroplanes, even though it obviously didn't address the Sala crash which hadn't happened yet.
Many many years ago , during holidays, I used to drive a taxi round Cardiff without even having a driving licence , never mind anything like the proper documents and that was commonplace in those days.( I'm talking a long time ago )
No one cared much really till some 18 year old smashed through the front of a chemists shop one day and then they started to do a bit of enforcement . Same with HGV's if you go back far enough.
Same story here I expect . People taking the absolute piss with safety and regulations till someone without the proper documents and insurances causes a big problem ,then they suddenly start enforcing the rules .
its extremely difficult to enforce when there are double rules.....eg
I assume you have a D1 ?...you can go, hire a minibus and you and 9 mates can legally share the hire cost..diesel..and you can drive non stop for 36 hours to Budapest { legally I think its 11 hours max for pro drivers which you are not, so are not legally required to abide by } for the wales game = legal..or you charge them 20 quid each over and above hire/diesel = illegal..to prove that it would take either you to admit payment or a mate on the trip to grass you up...
No, that was 40 or 50 years ago. I didn't pursue that career, just a holiday job which I lied to get, although I did later get a private hire and Hackney licence down there when they started cracking down and actually I got an HGV 1 in the army too, but that was all in another long ago place.
I see what you're saying though and of course you're quite right that it's exactly the same sort of thing.
if you passed your driving test prior to a certain date ...I think its late 1990s you have D1 on licence which allows you to drive a vehicle carrying upto 16 passengers but not be payed to do so...no max driving hours or max length of driving days , no enforced days off and not even restricted to 62mph either...so id imagine its very difficult to enforce and sounds a lot like these plane journeys...where a flight can be totally legal for friends/ family or as a favour..and completely illegal if paid for..
Yes I see what you mean. Yes then I'm sure I've got one of those . I know I can drive a 7 ton or something by virtue of when I passed the test and strangely it says HGV 3, 2 and 1 even though I don't think that classification even exists any more.
I don't really have occasion to do any of that though so I don't really keep up with it. If I started driving lorries round I'd probably kill someone !
But yes of course you're quite right that it's a similar grey area of loopholes which people exploit and get away with till something serious like this happens.
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