Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Tue May 21, 2019 3:38 pm
Gaynor Straight wrote:It was only the family and friends of Sala that made Cardiff look bad.
In the interests of balance the programme should have sought Cardiffs views in response to the familys comments but they didn't. The familys take is based entirely on what Emiliano told them ie that he had signed for Cardiff, so their animosity towards us is centred around that, without knowing the full story. I don't remember the family being asked to comment about the flight arrangements at all.
probably did contact the club.
Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Tue May 21, 2019 4:28 pm
As harsh as this might sound it has zero effect on my life now, and very little at the time tbh apart from the obvious human empathy for any stranger and their families, and those affected like Ken Choo and Warnock.
What I do find insulting is this 'notion' that we abondoned him and should have looked after him better. IMO that's complete bollocks and whilst I understand the family are probably angry they need to remember their son was a grown man who clearly made his own decisions, one of which was to board that plane.
What I do find insulting is this 'notion' that we abondoned him and should have looked after him better. IMO that's complete bollocks and whilst I understand the family are probably angry they need to remember their son was a grown man who clearly made his own decisions, one of which was to board that plane.
Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Tue May 21, 2019 5:37 pm
RV Casual wrote:As harsh as this might sound it has zero effect on my life now, and very little at the time tbh apart from the obvious human empathy for any stranger and their families, and those affected like Ken Choo and Warnock.
What I do find insulting is this 'notion' that we abondoned him and should have looked after him better. IMO that's complete bollocks and whilst I understand the family are probably angry they need to remember their son was a grown man who clearly made his own decisions, one of which was to board that plane.
I completely agree with you, I'd never heard of the guy before he signed for us, and I've never seen him play, I did the minutes applause and that was that for me. I've had close friends die in the last few months, and that means far more. It's in the hands of FIFA and they will decide what's what, if they decide we have to cough up the cash, then I'm sure we will.
Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Tue May 21, 2019 5:42 pm
Cardiff City chairman issues deeply personal message over Emiliano Sala
Daily Telegraph
Tuesday 21st May 2019
Cardiff City have upped the ante in the Emiliano Sala transfer wrangle by calling for changes to the law to prevent this type of unlawful flight happening in football again.
Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman is leading the campaign and, together with Air Charter Association chief executive Dave Edwards.
The full detail of their article is below, but Dalman insists the habit 'of turning a blind eye' to these type of activities between agents, players and managers in the booming modern-day transfer world has to be halted.
Cardiff are unhappy at the way agent Willie McKay arranged Sala's flight from Nantes to Wales and that forms part of the FIFA investigation into the whole affair. The governing body will determine whether Cardiff have to pay the £15m fee to Nantes, with the Bluebirds insisting Sala was not officially registered as their player at the time of the tragedy.
Part-time gas engineer Dave Ibbotson, who also disappeared, was unlicensed to take fee-paying passengers, although McKay has emphasised he had no involvement in choosing the pilot.
Cardiff had offered Sala a British Airways flight, but say it was declined.
As they wait for the outcome of the top-level FIFA probe, Cardiff say they are putting in place robust checks and balances to ensure no Bluebirds player or member of staff is endangered from what they dub 'risky and illegal practices' again.
They are calling on other football clubs, and those in the horse-racing industry where Cardiff say this practice is also common, to follow suit in stamping out these kind of private flights for good.
In a further twist, Dalman gave a strongly-worded interview to the Telegraph where he again questioned McKay's involvement and called for a 'big bang' shake-up in football.
The 1986 big bang in London saw the capital switch from traditional face-to-face share dealing in The City to electronic trading. Cardiff want a similar overhaul in football.
Calling for tougher action on agents, Dalman told the paper: "I'm from the City of London. My business is finance. Imagine we have a broker who has just been found guilty of whatever and he comes back as a broker hiding behind someone else's licence - there would be uproar. Why should football be any different? The whole intermediary issue needs to be dealt with."
He argued McKay should never have been involved in the Sala deal, telling the Telegraph further: "First of all, I find it quite remarkable that he goes public and says 'I paid for the flight'. Secondly, he says I bumped up the price and I lied about other clubs being interested. Yet we think it's okay and the guy keeps doing interviews.
"I don't think he means bad. He just doesn't know any different. There is a subtle difference."
McKay has admitted to planting stories about interest from other clubs in Sala "in order to create an interest around you".
He said of Dalman's comments: "Mehmet's a lovely man. He's been great for Cardiff City. Mehmet's going to do what he's going to do... I know he is under pressure from the owner."
This is the personal message from Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman and Dave Edwards, chief executive of the Air Charter Association
"The football season may be over, but the memories of 2018-19 will stay with fans for many years to come. There are some magical moments to remember - the Champions League semi-final comebacks, the thrilling title race, even Cardiff City’s 2-0 win over Manchester United.
But it was also a year of unprecedented tragedy.
On the morning of January 22, reports began to filter in of a light aircraft missing over the English Channel. As the day went on it became clear that the missing Piper Malibu PA-46 plane was carrying Emiliano Sala, aged just 28, on his way to Cardiff from Nantes.
Over the following days the footballing world watched, hoping for the best but fearing the worst. When his body was found, the world mourned.
Amidst the collective trauma, it was not long before issues over the legality of the flight itself began to emerge. The Aviation Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) published an interim report on February 25 that confirmed what many suspected. Neither the pilot, nor the plane was licensed to operate on a commercial basis. The details that were revealed shocked many, but not the aviation industry, where it has long been said that it would take a high-profile accident before action would be taken to clamp down on the dangerous practice of illegal flying.
Cardiff City FC are supporting the Air Charter Association in the hope that this tragic accident, might catalyse change. With the murky world of illegal flights having been uncovered for all to see, it is time to act.
An illegal flight can take several different forms, but always, it ultimately comes down to pilots and flight organisers cutting corners. That can be by not attaining the proper licence to fly fee-paying passengers, by knowingly flying a plane that is not registered for commercial activities, or purposely flouting the cost sharing exemption (in which case a private pilot can fly up to six passengers if they are sharing the cost of the flight).
It’s important to make clear that the number of pilots who are happy to break the law are a small percentage of the 35,959 registered pilots in the UK. However, those who are breaking the law are breaking it often. There is circumstantial evidence to suggest illegal flights are happening every day at airfields around the country.
After the Piper Malibu crash on January 21, the Air Charter Association launched a new reporting system for suspicious flights. Since then reports have come in at a rate of almost one per day. The prevalence of such flights lay solely at the door of those who have, for too long, been in a position to clamp down on illegal flights yet have chosen to look the other way.
The past few months have highlighted that illegal flights are a real issue in the sporting world, most specifically the fast-moving football and horseracing industries. Football teams are regular users of private aviation and during transfer periods there is a boom in business.
Meetings between agents, club officials and players are usually scheduled at short notice, in secrecy and under tight time pressures. Perhaps inevitably with the current culture of turning a blind eye, these flights are not always legal, and the Sala case – however shocking and tragic – is only the tip of the iceberg.
While any recommendations for reform will come from the final Air Accidents Investigation Branch report due this year, there are actions we can take to stop others from needlessly taking risks. That is why we are helping the FA and Premier League to develop a new policy and are encouraging football clubs across the UK to adopt it as well.
The policy has one very straightforward aim, to ensure that every flight connected to a football club is certified and that no player or member of staff is endangered through these risky and illegal practices again.
It is essential that clubs institute robust checks and balances. Cardiff City FC is leading the way. We have hired an aviation expert who, before any flight takes off, will require a copy of the Air Operators Certificate, the Aircraft Insurance and evidence that all flight crew hold valid commercial pilot licences and all licences and certifications required for the plane to be flown.
Only after the expert has given their thumbs up will the plane be cleared for take-off. And this process will and must extend to intermediaries with whom the club deals – only then will we make progress eliminating the practice of illegal flying from the football industry.
This is an opportunity for those of us who are deeply troubled by what has happened to make real and lasting change in our industry."
Mehmet Dalman is the chairman of Cardiff City FC
Dave Edwards is the CEO of the Air Charter Association
Daily Telegraph
Tuesday 21st May 2019
Cardiff City have upped the ante in the Emiliano Sala transfer wrangle by calling for changes to the law to prevent this type of unlawful flight happening in football again.
Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman is leading the campaign and, together with Air Charter Association chief executive Dave Edwards.
The full detail of their article is below, but Dalman insists the habit 'of turning a blind eye' to these type of activities between agents, players and managers in the booming modern-day transfer world has to be halted.
Cardiff are unhappy at the way agent Willie McKay arranged Sala's flight from Nantes to Wales and that forms part of the FIFA investigation into the whole affair. The governing body will determine whether Cardiff have to pay the £15m fee to Nantes, with the Bluebirds insisting Sala was not officially registered as their player at the time of the tragedy.
Part-time gas engineer Dave Ibbotson, who also disappeared, was unlicensed to take fee-paying passengers, although McKay has emphasised he had no involvement in choosing the pilot.
Cardiff had offered Sala a British Airways flight, but say it was declined.
As they wait for the outcome of the top-level FIFA probe, Cardiff say they are putting in place robust checks and balances to ensure no Bluebirds player or member of staff is endangered from what they dub 'risky and illegal practices' again.
They are calling on other football clubs, and those in the horse-racing industry where Cardiff say this practice is also common, to follow suit in stamping out these kind of private flights for good.
In a further twist, Dalman gave a strongly-worded interview to the Telegraph where he again questioned McKay's involvement and called for a 'big bang' shake-up in football.
The 1986 big bang in London saw the capital switch from traditional face-to-face share dealing in The City to electronic trading. Cardiff want a similar overhaul in football.
Calling for tougher action on agents, Dalman told the paper: "I'm from the City of London. My business is finance. Imagine we have a broker who has just been found guilty of whatever and he comes back as a broker hiding behind someone else's licence - there would be uproar. Why should football be any different? The whole intermediary issue needs to be dealt with."
He argued McKay should never have been involved in the Sala deal, telling the Telegraph further: "First of all, I find it quite remarkable that he goes public and says 'I paid for the flight'. Secondly, he says I bumped up the price and I lied about other clubs being interested. Yet we think it's okay and the guy keeps doing interviews.
"I don't think he means bad. He just doesn't know any different. There is a subtle difference."
McKay has admitted to planting stories about interest from other clubs in Sala "in order to create an interest around you".
He said of Dalman's comments: "Mehmet's a lovely man. He's been great for Cardiff City. Mehmet's going to do what he's going to do... I know he is under pressure from the owner."
This is the personal message from Bluebirds chairman Mehmet Dalman and Dave Edwards, chief executive of the Air Charter Association
"The football season may be over, but the memories of 2018-19 will stay with fans for many years to come. There are some magical moments to remember - the Champions League semi-final comebacks, the thrilling title race, even Cardiff City’s 2-0 win over Manchester United.
But it was also a year of unprecedented tragedy.
On the morning of January 22, reports began to filter in of a light aircraft missing over the English Channel. As the day went on it became clear that the missing Piper Malibu PA-46 plane was carrying Emiliano Sala, aged just 28, on his way to Cardiff from Nantes.
Over the following days the footballing world watched, hoping for the best but fearing the worst. When his body was found, the world mourned.
Amidst the collective trauma, it was not long before issues over the legality of the flight itself began to emerge. The Aviation Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) published an interim report on February 25 that confirmed what many suspected. Neither the pilot, nor the plane was licensed to operate on a commercial basis. The details that were revealed shocked many, but not the aviation industry, where it has long been said that it would take a high-profile accident before action would be taken to clamp down on the dangerous practice of illegal flying.
Cardiff City FC are supporting the Air Charter Association in the hope that this tragic accident, might catalyse change. With the murky world of illegal flights having been uncovered for all to see, it is time to act.
An illegal flight can take several different forms, but always, it ultimately comes down to pilots and flight organisers cutting corners. That can be by not attaining the proper licence to fly fee-paying passengers, by knowingly flying a plane that is not registered for commercial activities, or purposely flouting the cost sharing exemption (in which case a private pilot can fly up to six passengers if they are sharing the cost of the flight).
It’s important to make clear that the number of pilots who are happy to break the law are a small percentage of the 35,959 registered pilots in the UK. However, those who are breaking the law are breaking it often. There is circumstantial evidence to suggest illegal flights are happening every day at airfields around the country.
After the Piper Malibu crash on January 21, the Air Charter Association launched a new reporting system for suspicious flights. Since then reports have come in at a rate of almost one per day. The prevalence of such flights lay solely at the door of those who have, for too long, been in a position to clamp down on illegal flights yet have chosen to look the other way.
The past few months have highlighted that illegal flights are a real issue in the sporting world, most specifically the fast-moving football and horseracing industries. Football teams are regular users of private aviation and during transfer periods there is a boom in business.
Meetings between agents, club officials and players are usually scheduled at short notice, in secrecy and under tight time pressures. Perhaps inevitably with the current culture of turning a blind eye, these flights are not always legal, and the Sala case – however shocking and tragic – is only the tip of the iceberg.
While any recommendations for reform will come from the final Air Accidents Investigation Branch report due this year, there are actions we can take to stop others from needlessly taking risks. That is why we are helping the FA and Premier League to develop a new policy and are encouraging football clubs across the UK to adopt it as well.
The policy has one very straightforward aim, to ensure that every flight connected to a football club is certified and that no player or member of staff is endangered through these risky and illegal practices again.
It is essential that clubs institute robust checks and balances. Cardiff City FC is leading the way. We have hired an aviation expert who, before any flight takes off, will require a copy of the Air Operators Certificate, the Aircraft Insurance and evidence that all flight crew hold valid commercial pilot licences and all licences and certifications required for the plane to be flown.
Only after the expert has given their thumbs up will the plane be cleared for take-off. And this process will and must extend to intermediaries with whom the club deals – only then will we make progress eliminating the practice of illegal flying from the football industry.
This is an opportunity for those of us who are deeply troubled by what has happened to make real and lasting change in our industry."
Mehmet Dalman is the chairman of Cardiff City FC
Dave Edwards is the CEO of the Air Charter Association
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Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Tue May 21, 2019 7:53 pm
Gaynor Straight wrote:It was only the family and friends of Sala that made Cardiff look bad.
In the interests of balance the programme should have sought Cardiffs views in response to the familys comments but they didn't. The familys take is based entirely on what Emiliano told them ie that he had signed for Cardiff, so their animosity towards us is centred around that, without knowing the full story. I don't remember the family being asked to comment about the flight arrangements at all.
Very good point, except they did say that the club had refused to comment . Nonetheless they might have found someone to put the other side ,
Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Wed May 22, 2019 10:48 am
Finally watched the programme and agree with those who said it offers nothing 'new' in real terms; just another half-hour fill for the BBC. To be blunt, it was very poorly made and seemed to have no real end product
It was tough on Cardiff City FC to some extent and (as the poster above points out) City declined to comment probably on legal advice, given the on-going situation
Beyond that, the only thing that jumped out at me was the obvious grief of Emiliano Sala's family and their desire for answers to some very difficult questions; and I'm sure we'd all want the same for our loved ones in such circumstances
Beyond that, it was just a regurgitation of the same old stuff we've ben hearing for months
A very disappointing programme indeed
It was tough on Cardiff City FC to some extent and (as the poster above points out) City declined to comment probably on legal advice, given the on-going situation
Beyond that, the only thing that jumped out at me was the obvious grief of Emiliano Sala's family and their desire for answers to some very difficult questions; and I'm sure we'd all want the same for our loved ones in such circumstances
Beyond that, it was just a regurgitation of the same old stuff we've ben hearing for months
A very disappointing programme indeed
Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Wed May 22, 2019 1:14 pm
The paperwork wasn’t complete so he wasn’t our player. Everybody probably thought he was our player, including NW and Sala as well, but legally he wasn’t . It’s unfortunate the way things worked out but the club was not involved in the flight arrangements.
As for transfer business with other clubs, the only difference is that other clubs know we have £15m pound that we didn’t spend and will put up their prices accordingly. There is no sentiment in business.
As for the TV programme, it told us nothing new. The AAIB investigation is the important part of the legal battle, and that’s not our problem
As for transfer business with other clubs, the only difference is that other clubs know we have £15m pound that we didn’t spend and will put up their prices accordingly. There is no sentiment in business.
As for the TV programme, it told us nothing new. The AAIB investigation is the important part of the legal battle, and that’s not our problem
Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Wed May 22, 2019 2:43 pm
would have been nice if these investigative journos asked a few questions re insurance...
bemused by the fact that no one from our club has mentioned insurance..even along the lines of our insurance company have advised us to not pay..not that it would be the club paying because the insurance would.....surely ?
and Nantes...if it wasnt a done deal the financial loss should be covered by their insurance..
bemused by the fact that no one from our club has mentioned insurance..even along the lines of our insurance company have advised us to not pay..not that it would be the club paying because the insurance would.....surely ?
and Nantes...if it wasnt a done deal the financial loss should be covered by their insurance..
Re: I thought last nights programme made Cardiff City look b
Wed May 22, 2019 5:30 pm
Sven wrote:Finally watched the programme and agree with those who said it offers nothing 'new' in real terms; just another half-hour fill for the BBC. To be blunt, it was very poorly made and seemed to have no real end product
It was tough on Cardiff City FC to some extent and (as the poster above points out) City declined to comment probably on legal advice, given the on-going situation
Beyond that, the only thing that jumped out at me was the obvious grief of Emiliano Sala's family and their desire for answers to some very difficult questions; and I'm sure we'd all want the same for our loved ones in such circumstances
Beyond that, it was just a regurgitation of the same old stuff we've ben hearing for months
A very disappointing programme indeed
Exactly.
The programme was called BBC Wales Investigates, but basically it was Wyre Davies going to Argentina to interview Sala's mum, dad and best friend with some other previously seen stuff padding it out.
There wasnt anything investigated.