UPDATED: “ MANSLAUGHTER ARREST OVER EMILIANO SALA DEATH "

Just, a thought, unless the man they arrested is the owner of the plane or a mechanic who worked on it, I think the police have given out disinformation, i mean if they said the man was from York and was 60 years old then we would all including the media think it would be Henderson , of If they said he was from monaco and is 60 years old we would guess it to be Mckay.

Are Police allowed to put out deliberate misinformation?

Yes to protect an identity

Look at this

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q= ... SEARCH_BOX

Look at this

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q= ... SEARCH_BOX

I'm getting a thumb with a plaster on it mate?

Henderson is 60 years old ?

Yes he is 60 years of age and lives in York which is not really North Yorkshire. Whoever this guy is it appears not to be McKay or Henderson due to both being 60 years old rather than 64.

York is definitely North Yorkshire ....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/York

I was based in Catterick when I was in the Army and that really is North Yorkshire. I remember going to York on the weekends and it was miles away. I would say it is more mid-Yorkshire and closer to the South than the North.

North Yorkshire is the biggest County in England ... York is North Yorkshire, My wife is from Scarborough which is 38 miles from York and is also in North Yorkshire.

Perhaps those fans who came on here and slated the club for not paying up will see that there is often more than meets the eye. There are usually two sides to a dispute, and while Cardiff may have to make the payment, it is looking more and more likely that they have acted with due dilligence by witholding payment until all the facts, as well as the legal position with regards to the player's registration have been thoroughly investigated.

Look at this

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q= ... SEARCH_BOX

I'm getting a thumb with a plaster on it mate?

Sorry I don't think I copied the link correctly, go onto facebook and look at the Dorset Police page

Nail on head, good post Steve

Look at this

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q= ... SEARCH_BOX

I'm getting a thumb with a plaster on it mate?

Sorry I don't think I copied the link correctly, go onto facebook and look at the Dorset Police page

Not on Facebook butt, any chance of a brief rundown?

Nail on head, good post Steve

Seconded

Look at this

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q= ... SEARCH_BOX

I'm getting a thumb with a plaster on it mate?

Sorry I don't think I copied the link correctly, go onto facebook and look at the Dorset Police page

Not on Facebook butt, any chance of a brief rundown?

Scrap that mate just seen it now

I don't know/understand why they do this tbh, how is releasing this information in the publics interest, surely all it can do is possibly jepordise any future procecution.

Somebody with far more knowledge than me will have an answer I'm sure but how why Dorset Police have felt the need to post this on Facebook and or other Media outlets I just don't get it?

I don't know/understand why they do this tbh, how is releasing this information in the publics interest, surely all it can do is possibly jepordise any future procecution.

Somebody with far more knowledge than me will have an answer I'm sure but how why Dorset Police have felt the need to post this on Facebook and or other Media outlets I just don't get it?

Agree, strange to release a statement then ask people not to speculate.... clearly a contradiction

Could it be that they have found information about the aircraft itself... I.e. Not kept up with maintenance?

With the little information we have it is a guessing game but if I had to guess with what we know I would go with your suggestion.

Maybe he did the aircraft version of an MOT and passed a flying wreck which is how ES is supposed to have described it?

I would put money on this being the case.

In the beginning when I heard Sala was communicating with his friends that he though the plane would not make it I immediately thought this was a rush job and it would not surprise me if corners were taken to get the plane ready. Coming from this technical background let just say there are some dodgy people working in this area.

Perhaps those fans who came on here and slated the club for not paying up will see that there is often more than meets the eye. There are usually two sides to a dispute, and while Cardiff may have to make the payment, it is looking more and more likely that they have acted with due dilligence by witholding payment until all the facts, as well as the legal position with regards to the player's registration have been thoroughly investigated.

Well said, Steve Zodiak

The one thing that stands out here is that the 'arrested' man is not likely to have been either of David Henderson or Willie McKay, as neither fit the profile in the Dorset Police statement

Being 'arrested' is not a conformation of guilt; it merely gives the police a wider range of powers with which to pursue their investigations

Clearly, they believe they have good reason to do this but anything suggested by members of this Forum is purely speculation and (currently at least) wild speculation at best. We do not know who was arrested and/or why this was done

As ever, it will all out in due course and for now at least we shall just have to wait and see

Perhaps those fans who came on here and slated the club for not paying up will see that there is often more than meets the eye. There are usually two sides to a dispute, and while Cardiff may have to make the payment, it is looking more and more likely that they have acted with due dilligence by witholding payment until all the facts, as well as the legal position with regards to the player's registration have been thoroughly investigated.

Well said, Steve Zodiak

The one thing that stands out here is that the 'arrested' man is not likely to have been either of David Henderson or Willie McKay, as neither fit the profile in the Dorset Police statement

Being 'arrested' is not a conformation of guilt; it merely gives the police a wider range of powers with which to pursue their investigations

Clearly, they believe they have good reason to do this but anything suggested by members of this Forum is purely speculation and (currently at least) wild speculation at best. We do not know who was arrested and/or why this was done

As ever, it will all out in due course and for now at least we shall just have to wait and see

Technically correct re arrest, but I doubt whether they'd be arresting rather than interviewing under caution by appointment if they were just going through the motions. Also there's a clear offence which you may recall I said a particular person appears to have committed.
You're right that it's not Mr McKay, but I don't know you don't think Mr Henderson fits the bill because I think it's probably him. I'll find out in the morning if you like.

Perhaps those fans who came on here and slated the club for not paying up will see that there is often more than meets the eye. There are usually two sides to a dispute, and while Cardiff may have to make the payment, it is looking more and more likely that they have acted with due dilligence by witholding payment until all the facts, as well as the legal position with regards to the player's registration have been thoroughly investigated.

Well said, Steve Zodiak

The one thing that stands out here is that the 'arrested' man is not likely to have been either of David Henderson or Willie McKay, as neither fit the profile in the Dorset Police statement

Being 'arrested' is not a conformation of guilt; it merely gives the police a wider range of powers with which to pursue their investigations

Clearly, they believe they have good reason to do this but anything suggested by members of this Forum is purely speculation and (currently at least) wild speculation at best. We do not know who was arrested and/or why this was done

As ever, it will all out in due course and for now at least we shall just have to wait and see

Technically correct re arrest, but I doubt whether they'd be arresting rather than interviewing under caution by appointment if they were just going through the motions. Also there's a clear offence which you may recall I said a particular person appears to have committed.
You're right that it's not Mr McKay, but I don't know you don't think Mr Henderson fits the bill because I think it's probably him. I'll find out in the morning if you like.

Technically?

"Man arrested on suspicion of..." means exactly that

The article states that the 'arrested' man was 64 years of age and David Henderson is 6o years old

Hence my comment "not likely" to be either, although the workings of the modern Press may well leave too for a little ambiguity in reporting

To be fair, I'm a patient man and I'll wait to see what comes of it in due course

Perhaps those fans who came on here and slated the club for not paying up will see that there is often more than meets the eye. There are usually two sides to a dispute, and while Cardiff may have to make the payment, it is looking more and more likely that they have acted with due dilligence by witholding payment until all the facts, as well as the legal position with regards to the player's registration have been thoroughly investigated.

Well said, Steve Zodiak

The one thing that stands out here is that the 'arrested' man is not likely to have been either of David Henderson or Willie McKay, as neither fit the profile in the Dorset Police statement

Being 'arrested' is not a conformation of guilt; it merely gives the police a wider range of powers with which to pursue their investigations

Clearly, they believe they have good reason to do this but anything suggested by members of this Forum is purely speculation and (currently at least) wild speculation at best. We do not know who was arrested and/or why this was done

As ever, it will all out in due course and for now at least we shall just have to wait and see

Technically correct re arrest, but I doubt whether they'd be arresting rather than interviewing under caution by appointment if they were just going through the motions. Also there's a clear offence which you may recall I said a particular person appears to have committed.
You're right that it's not Mr McKay, but I don't know you don't think Mr Henderson fits the bill because I think it's probably him. I'll find out in the morning if you like.

i think everyone thought Henderson until it was pointed out he is the wrong age and lives somewhere different to what the police release says...no doubt you will clear it all up ...

Perhaps those fans who came on here and slated the club for not paying up will see that there is often more than meets the eye. There are usually two sides to a dispute, and while Cardiff may have to make the payment, it is looking more and more likely that they have acted with due dilligence by witholding payment until all the facts, as well as the legal position with regards to the player's registration have been thoroughly investigated.

Well said, Steve Zodiak

The one thing that stands out here is that the 'arrested' man is not likely to have been either of David Henderson or Willie McKay, as neither fit the profile in the Dorset Police statement

Being 'arrested' is not a conformation of guilt; it merely gives the police a wider range of powers with which to pursue their investigations

Clearly, they believe they have good reason to do this but anything suggested by members of this Forum is purely speculation and (currently at least) wild speculation at best. We do not know who was arrested and/or why this was done

As ever, it will all out in due course and for now at least we shall just have to wait and see

Technically correct re arrest, but I doubt whether they'd be arresting rather than interviewing under caution by appointment if they were just going through the motions. Also there's a clear offence which you may recall I said a particular person appears to have committed.
You're right that it's not Mr McKay, but I don't know you don't think Mr Henderson fits the bill because I think it's probably him. I'll find out in the morning if you like.

Technically?

"Man arrested on suspicion of..." means exactly that

The article states that the 'arrested' man was 64 years of age and David Henderson is 6o years old

Hence my comment "not likely" to be either, although the workings of the modern Press may well leave too for a little ambiguity in reporting

To be fair, I'm a patient man and I'll wait to see what comes of it in due course

Hey, don't get annoyed with me because people frequently misuse the word "technically".

I said that your point was technically correct - ie your description of an arrest was correct - quite well expressed in fact. I went on to add, however , that drawing upon my experience in such matters and given the nature of the investigation , that they'd be more likely to make an appointment and interview him under caution if they were just ticking boxes.
The fact that they've arrested suggests one of three things -
That they intend to charge him,
That he's refused to be interviewed voluntarily,
That the investigating officer is a publicity hound who wants to see his name in the papers .

The first is the most likely. Now, as you say we're only speculating ,but come on ...... That's what we do here !

Arrests are always " on suspicion of" unless their " On a warrant", so we can't deduce anything from that, and whilst the police will have his correct age - as you say-the press or Wikepedia might not , so that doesn't exclude him, and it's certainly close enough.

You're right that we don't know whether anyone is guilty or even whether anyone will be charged.

It's all speculation and gossip ,as I said , but although I might still be wrong , this was the outcome I thought might happen in terms of personal criminal liability, as I said long ago. Whatever the outcome of the arrest and whoever has been arrested, they'll release him and submit it all to the CPS so there won't be any immediate answer.

Having said all this, I applaud you for pointing out that an arrest isn't a conviction, or even a stain on the man's character . That was an important fact to point out,

64 year old man Released without charge.

64 year old man Released without charge.

Daily Mail says Henderson




Emiliano Sala: North Yorkshire man arrested on suspicion of manslaughter

By Danyal Hussain For Mailonline 18:29 BST 19 Jun 2019, updated 08:43 BST 20 Jun 2019
Police arrest pilot, 64, on suspicion of manslaughter over death of Cardiff City footballer Emiliano Sala in crashed plane that he was meant to be flying


A British pilot has been arrested over the deaths of Argentinian footballer Emiliano Sala and the friend he drafted in at the 11th hour to fly the plane that plunged into the English Channel.

Dorset Police have held David Henderson, 64, from York, on suspicion of manslaughter by an unlawful act following the doomed flight from Nantes to Cardiff on January 21 this year.

The plane containing Mr Sala's body was found on February 4 - 220ft down on the seabed off Alderney - but the pilot David Ibbotson has never been located.

Mr Henderson had been asked by British football 'super agent' Willie McKay to take Sala, 28, to Wales after he completed his £15million transfer to the Premier League.

But he then drafted in Mr Ibbotson, a boiler engineer and part-time pilot from Lincolnshire who was not qualified to carry paying passengers and should not have been flying at night or in bad weather.

Mr Henderson had been feared dead after the flight plan for the doomed plane named him as the pilot. He was then forced to post a Facebook message the next day stating that rumours of his death were untrue and his friend had taken the controls instead.

Detective Inspector Simon Huxter, of Dorset Police, the force leading the investigation because it is where Mr Sala's body was brought ashore, said last night: 'We have carried out a wide-ranging investigation into the circumstances of the death of Mr Sala and continue to work with partner agencies including the Civil Aviation Authority.

'As part of this investigation we have to consider whether there is any evidence of any suspected criminality and as a result of our inquiries we have arrested a 64-year-old man from the North Yorkshire area on suspicion of manslaughter by an unlawful act.'

The original flight plan named David Henderson (pictured with the doomed plane) as the pilot but he pulled out at the 11th hour - and the French authorities initially feared he was deadYes

64 year old man Released without charge.

As I said above you can't deduce anything from that though, because they'd have to submit it to the CPS these days.

Henderson is 60 years old ?

Yes he is 60 years of age and lives in York which is not really North Yorkshire. Whoever this guy is it appears not to be McKay or Henderson due to both being 60 years old rather than 64.

York is definitely North Yorkshire ....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/York

I was based in Catterick when I was in the Army and that really is North Yorkshire. I remember going to York on the weekends and it was miles away. I would say it is more mid-Yorkshire and closer to the South than the North.

North Yorkshire is the biggest County in England ... York is North Yorkshire, My wife is from Scarborough which is 38 miles from York and is also in North Yorkshire.

It appears you are right York is in North Yorkshire and we now know the man arrested was Henderson although he was reported as being 64 years of age 4 years older than he actually is. Igovener has explained that the Police can release disinformation to protect the identity of the suspect but that has clearly failed.

64 year old man Released without charge.

As I said above you can't deduce anything from that though, because they'd have to submit it to the CPS these days.

Of course

Perhaps those fans who came on here and slated the club for not paying up will see that there is often more than meets the eye. There are usually two sides to a dispute, and while Cardiff may have to make the payment, it is looking more and more likely that they have acted with due dilligence by witholding payment until all the facts, as well as the legal position with regards to the player's registration have been thoroughly investigated.

Well said, Steve Zodiak

The one thing that stands out here is that the 'arrested' man is not likely to have been either of David Henderson or Willie McKay, as neither fit the profile in the Dorset Police statement

Being 'arrested' is not a conformation of guilt; it merely gives the police a wider range of powers with which to pursue their investigations

Clearly, they believe they have good reason to do this but anything suggested by members of this Forum is purely speculation and (currently at least) wild speculation at best. We do not know who was arrested and/or why this was done

As ever, it will all out in due course and for now at least we shall just have to wait and see

Technically correct re arrest, but I doubt whether they'd be arresting rather than interviewing under caution by appointment if they were just going through the motions. Also there's a clear offence which you may recall I said a particular person appears to have committed.
You're right that it's not Mr McKay, but I don't know you don't think Mr Henderson fits the bill because I think it's probably him. I'll find out in the morning if you like.

Technically?

"Man arrested on suspicion of..." means exactly that

The article states that the 'arrested' man was 64 years of age and David Henderson is 6o years old

Hence my comment "not likely" to be either, although the workings of the modern Press may well leave too for a little ambiguity in reporting

To be fair, I'm a patient man and I'll wait to see what comes of it in due course

Hey, don't get annoyed with me because people frequently misuse the word "technically".

I said that your point was technically correct - ie your description of an arrest was correct - quite well expressed in fact. I went on to add, however , that drawing upon my experience in such matters and given the nature of the investigation , that they'd be more likely to make an appointment and interview him under caution if they were just ticking boxes.
The fact that they've arrested suggests one of three things -
That they intend to charge him,
That he's refused to be interviewed voluntarily,
That the investigating officer is a publicity hound who wants to see his name in the papers .

The first is the most likely. Now, as you say we're only speculating ,but come on ...... That's what we do here !

Arrests are always " on suspicion of" unless their " On a warrant", so we can't deduce anything from that, and whilst the police will have his correct age - as you say-the press or Wikepedia might not , so that doesn't exclude him, and it's certainly close enough.

You're right that we don't know whether anyone is guilty or even whether anyone will be charged.

It's all speculation and gossip ,as I said , but although I might still be wrong , this was the outcome I thought might happen in terms of personal criminal liability, as I said long ago. Whatever the outcome of the arrest and whoever has been arrested, they'll release him and submit it all to the CPS so there won't be any immediate answer.

Having said all this, I applaud you for pointing out that an arrest isn't a conviction, or even a stain on the man's character . That was an important fact to point out,

I wasn't annoyed with you. I was just defending my comments, which were correct so far as reasonable practicable given the information to hand

You yourself make some good and relevant points above and it now appears Henderson was the man arrested (the age thing still causes some confusion) although no 'official' statement on that appears to exist

Whilst it is (sort of) accepted that some of the speculation created by some (often the same people) on here is (quote) "what we do here..." I would suggest that what amounts to 'wild' speculation is neither warranted or fair on any individual in such circumstances as the ones surrounding the tragedy of Emiliano Sala's death

It is clear (and you have stated before) that you have a good knowledge of legal process and I doubt little of what you have written on the whole topic. My whole point was simply to point out to those who already have someone down as 'guilty' that there are processes to be followed and 'arrest' is just one part of said process that allows a more thorough investigation and/or charges to later follow or not (again, as you stated)

Actually I had a text from a BBC reporter in the middle of the night grudgingly admitting that I'd called it correctly on about day 3 , at which point he'd told me I was talking utter bollocks. That confirmed that it was Mr Henderson of course, but it was after I'd posted.
I'd normally be whining at anyone who inferred guilt from an arrest, and we shouldn't do that now . I'd also be bitching about people discussing a forthcoming case yet I'm guilty of it myself on this occasion !

We're certainly not breaking the sub judice rules since there's been no charge as yet, and I don't think we'd be open to contempt because it seems unlikely that any Magistrates committing the possible charges or members of a jury in another part of the country would be reading a football forum. Judges are top people of course and so I expect most of them keep up with Cardiff City, but it's considered that Judges cannot be influenced by press or similar comments.

I think we're water tight on that then, but of course you're right that we should try and have some common sense in what we're saying.

I don't think there's any getting away from Mr Hendeson's culpability here, since he seems to have been doing the aeronautical equivalent to running an HGV company with a surrogate Operators Licence which always leads to manslaughter when a fatal accident occurs. I personally think it's heavy handed, but the Courts take a different view and anyone convicted in such circumstances could expect about three years.

Of course, what happens here will be pivotal to the much bigger cases and counter cases in the High Court and elsewhere , because it might well yield a finding of fact as to who was responsible for the death and thus establish who wasn't responsible - or so it will be argued .

The first thing all parties ,including the insurers , will do is claim that a criminal act by a third party nullifies their liability. Doubt that'll get too far, but they'll certainly try it.

Next thing will be to suggest that Cardiff City failed in a duty of care because they had a business relationship with McKay, who in turn employed a contractor to provide a service he wasn't licenced to provide, using an under qualified pilot. This is how they'll try to connect the club with the flight , and if they succeed ( which I doubt), it will be suggested that they had a responsibility to examine the pilots and brokers paperwork .
By the way, they'll use the fact that paperwork wasn't properly completed to suggest that the club were generally slap dash in their responsibilities .


Anyway, I could go on and on and ariston. I won't , but I'll repeat what I've said before , that this is the tip of a legal iceberg and the litigation and counter litigation could go on for years !

Still, it's all very interesting and I'm sure it will develop. It's not as good as the OJ trial but it's still good family entertainment when the team aren't playing.