IS ANYONE REALLY SURPRISED ?

If you replace loanees from Bournemouth and Real Betis (?) with players from Rotherham, Oxford and more understandably from Brizzle C and Boro is it any wonder that our lack of class is now painfully evident.

It will take a monumental effort this season to mould these players into a half decent football team. Far too early yet to consider this a crisis but the writing is on the wall that this could turn out to be more of a struggle than most predicted and a long way from the swansong NW would have wanted.

One can only hope that our new manager will be more disposed to signing players with a higher skill set or one that doesn't consider ball retention to be dirty words.

If the performance level does not improve I will be surprised if Lee Tomlin in not given a run out very soon. Can he really be as bad as what we have at present or am I clutching at straws ?

It was always going to be a tough season, anybody who thought we were going to waltz the league was with respect living in cloud cuckoo land.

Very very few teams bounce back up at the first time of asking. If we win on Tuesday it will be 2 home wins and 2 away defeats, that won't be the end of the world or a terrible start.

There's a hell of a long way to go.

No your not clutching at straws our transfer business in the last 2 years has been abysmal

Tomlin is our only creative midfielder yet I would think it is more likely he will be loaned out to a lower division club than be in the squad Wednesday

Early days but recruitment has been a shambles

Some of our players are showing signs of being at the club too long.
Junior was fantastic when we were promoted , now looking completely lost.
Has not played well for over 15 months and was shocking today.

We are having a massive hangover from relegation, and we failed to buy quality,proven players.

The next manager will have a massive rebuild to overcome as the midfield and defence are woeful.

I also think NW made a mistake in announcing this is his last season.
It never goes well when this happens.

Last edited by fred keenor on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A the beginning of the transfer window we needed 2 good midfielders and a right back

The squad was good enough as a first 11 to go top 2

At the end of the window we lost some major players and now its mid table at best

I felt when Warnock said we were following the Burnley model I could see that. A right back, two midfielders and a striker and we would have a good go.

I think the squad looks very unbalanced and lacking in a lot of areas. Warnock has to work his magic now and getting them going.

Takes time to gel, but looking like individuals rather than a team. Middle of the park looks completely open. Need to go back to basics, when warnock first took over, build from the back. We looked a soft touch today

No, not surprised at all.
Bacuna, hopeless
Smithies handling and distribution suspect.
On the evidence of today Nelson nowhere near good enough.
Ralls now our best midfielder for heavens sake and he's no where near good enough.
Flint and Morrison too slow, no good as a pair and will be exposed against any side that doesn't play our hoof ball.
Sir Neil has put together a cental defensive pair to play against us just that hardly any other sides play the way we do any more.

after watching all the game,s this weekend, thought Cardiff played like a non league side, hope thay improve, rapidly

Tomlin and Aaron Bolger to feature

“TOMLIN MUST PLAY “and told not to chase every ball we’ve got enough water carriers.

I genuinely was surprised at how poor we were today.

Usually with a Warnock team you get a bit of fight but that was shocking today.

Yes a bit surprised I thought we would be better than this. The players we signed looked good on paper they seemed to be highly rated by the fans of the clubs they played for but have not performed so far. Some of the old hands seem to be under performing too. Does not seem Warnock has any idea of what his best team is and how to play anyway. It seems to be hoofball on steroids and it's not working.When the team bottom of the league completely outclass you its time to worry.

Perhaps those who said the league had moved on on Warnock is past his sell by date wer right all along. Would not put it past Warnock to turn it round but have grave doubts about it now. Worth pointing out the Wigan and Reading have lost all four of there other league games.This is actually the easy bit of the season when we playing the teams expected to struggle.

In Warncok we trust, maybe not anymore.

A the beginning of the transfer window we needed 2 good midfielders and a right back

The squad was good enough as a first 11 to go top 2

At the end of the window we lost some major players and now its mid table at best

All through the summer people were saying we needed 3 midfielders, a right back and a striker. After 3 games now we need two midfielders, a right back and a striker! All we got were two players from Oxford a third choice goalie, a midfielder from relegated Rotherham and an untried German striker. And a big slow lumbering centre back. That's what £15.5m got us.

Even if NW pulls the team together and has a relatively successful campaign, I suspect that most fans are going through a cooling off process and will welcome a wind of change at the end of the season.

This is in no way dismissive or disrespectful of what the boss has achieved but I think the time is right to go in another direction (hopefully upwards !) as soon as he decides to call it a day. I believe we will have enough to survive quite comfortably but it's time to move on.

First 20 we were very comfortable. Two terrible pieces of defending puts us massively on the back foot and we left ourselves exposed at the back try and get back in the game. We weren’t two nil down because of tactics. Just weak defending. We need to work on things no doubt but gifting two goals like that doesn’t half make it easy for the opposition. Injuries didn’t help us either.

First 20 we were very comfortable. Two terrible pieces of defending puts us massively on the back foot and we left ourselves exposed at the back try and get back in the game. We weren’t two nil down because of tactics. Just weak defending. We need to work on things no doubt but gifting two goals like that doesn’t half make it easy for the opposition. Injuries didn’t help us either.

There is the problem though - we were ‘comfortable ’. What did we create, did we have the pegged back, or were we getting in behind them with our wingers? None of it?

Yes, the defending way poor for both goals, but when you give the ball away as cheaply as we’ve been doing for 2 years, the defence is going to get caught out from time to time. All of the goals started from us losing possession needlessly.

Frankly, the midfield is a disaster and we knew from April it was going to have to be solved. It doesn’t stop attack’s as it’s too slow and doesn’t create attacks as there is no guile. It’s an absolute joke that it was allowed to get into this state...and to think, we only got Pack 5 minutes before the transfer deadline through a complete stork of luck. Rank, rank, rank bad planning by the club.

First 20 we were very comfortable. Two terrible pieces of defending puts us massively on the back foot and we left ourselves exposed at the back try and get back in the game. We weren’t two nil down because of tactics. Just weak defending. We need to work on things no doubt but gifting two goals like that doesn’t half make it easy for the opposition. Injuries didn’t help us either.

There is the problem though - we were ‘comfortable ’. What did we create, did we have the pegged back, or were we getting in behind them with our wingers? None of it?

Yes, the defending way poor for both goals, but when you give the ball away as cheaply as we’ve been doing for 2 years, the defence is going to get caught out from time to time. All of the goals started from us losing possession needlessly.

Frankly, the midfield is a disaster and we knew from April it was going to have to be solved. It doesn’t stop attack’s as it’s too slow and doesn’t create attacks as there is no guile. It’s an absolute joke that it was allowed to get into this state...and to think, we only got Pack 5 minutes before the transfer deadline through a complete stork of luck. Rank, rank, rank bad planning by the club.

We were away from home with a team that needs to gel. Most teams in the Championship away from home try and keep it tight and build a platform to kick on. I’m personally am happy for us to do that. We are also coming of the back of a season where we lost a lot of games. That has to have a psychological impact on the team. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect us to be creating lots of chances early doors away from home at this stage of the season. Reading were the home team and did nothing of note until their first goal. They kept it tight and defended well so you have to give them some credit. We gift them two goals and we fell apart chasing the game.

Not saying that there aren’t some concerns, especially in midfield but I think the reaction has been over the top. If we’re saying the same thing after 12 games then I’ll worry.

I admire your optimism Chippy and hope you're right.

My one concern is that the spirit has been knocked out if this team and that has been the one thing that has kept us going for the last couple of seasons.

We cannot depend on high quality football to blow teams away. We are totally dependent on bloody-mindedness and physicality to accrue our points and if this is missing, it is a grave cause for concern.

Yes we did lose a lot of matches last year and to a large extent momentum is so important. Therefore we can only hope that in his last season, NW will be able to motivate this team to get enough good results to at least keep us well away from the trap door to Div 1.

A the beginning of the transfer window we needed 2 good midfielders and a right back

The squad was good enough as a first 11 to go top 2

At the end of the window we lost some major players and now its mid table at best

All through the summer people were saying we needed 3 midfielders, a right back and a striker. After 3 games now we need two midfielders, a right back and a striker! All we got were two players from Oxford a third choice goalie, a midfielder from relegated Rotherham and an untried German striker. And a big slow lumbering centre back. That's what £15.5m got us.

In saying untried German, emiliano sala(rip) was untried at this level,let alone the prem and if you take the fees for Manga & zohore,net spend of around 4m is nearer the mark.I believe tomlin needs to be given the chance,and supply Glatzel with opportunities, I believe he can come good,from the little we have seen from him,also imho,Murphy needs to start ahead of Hoilett, as at present he hinders the side.

No body can knock Glatzel as he has been given nothing to work with yet , cannot believe Warnock played NML as he was strapped up to the hilt last week and obviously wasn't fit, Smithies should have done better with their second, As for coming off a long run of losses? Nah, Man Utd made to look quite ordinary, unbeaten pre season then new players coming in too late to slot in.

Personally think we better get used to to two or three maybe four years in Championship as when Warnock goes whoever takes over has some right clearing out to do.

We look like a team who has run out of steam and ideas, both from the players and the manager, all after only 3 games.

A big week this week, tough games coming up, Hudders, Blackburn and Fulham and after yesterdays performance i would grateful for 3 points.

Any less and i think VT will pull the plug and look for a new manager, who or what anyone could do with the lacking creativity in the side is debatable, the transfer window is a long time coming until January for whoever comes in.

Reading had players who could beat players in the middle of the park, only Tomlin fits this bill and we all know he will not get a chance.

I admire your optimism Chippy and hope you're right.

My one concern is that the spirit has been knocked out if this team and that has been the one thing that has kept us going for the last couple of seasons.

We cannot depend on high quality football to blow teams away. We are totally dependent on bloody-mindedness and physicality to accrue our points and if this is missing, it is a grave cause for concern.

Yes we did lose a lot of matches last year and to a large extent momentum is so important. Therefore we can only hope that in his last season, NW will be able to motivate this team to get enough good results to at least keep us well away from the trap door to Div 1.

I hope it’s not misplaced optimism. Let’s hope Warnock can get the team back up for it. The more I think about it the more I can see this season being one of transition. Really hope Warnocks last season with us doesn’t turn sour.

If you replace loanees from Bournemouth and Real Betis (?) with players from Rotherham, Oxford and more understandably from Brizzle C and Boro is it any wonder that our lack of class is now painfully evident.

It will take a monumental effort this season to mould these players into a half decent football team. Far too early yet to consider this a crisis but the writing is on the wall that this could turn out to be more of a struggle than most predicted and a long way from the swansong NW would have wanted.

One can only hope that our new manager will be more disposed to signing players with a higher skill set or one that doesn't consider ball retention to be dirty words.

If the performance level does not improve I will be surprised if Lee Tomlin in not given a run out very soon. Can he really be as bad as what we have at present or am I clutching at straws ?

Very surprised on paper this looks like a big strong Warnock team that should be steamrollering other teams, but in reality, they look slow and like they don't want it enough?

Very uncharacteristic for a Warnock team, I trust he will sort things out but it might take a few more weeks yet!

Recruitment has been so poor. The club will talk it up in the media and Warnock will reference the net spend etc but at the end of the day the players brought in are a downgrade on what we lost. You dont have to spend mega money for quality, you just need to smart with scouting.

We have no craft or creativity whatsoever. We're predictable, slow and a soft touch now.

Even Warnock's interviews and press conferences have been uninspiring.

My worry is that he seems to always talk about his position in the past tense.
It as if he is expecting to walk.
I think last season took it out of him and he deserves better.

It was always going to be a tough season, anybody who thought we were going to waltz the league was with respect living in cloud cuckoo land.

Very very few teams bounce back up at the first time of asking. If we win on Tuesday it will be 2 home wins and 2 away defeats, that won't be the end of the world or a terrible start.

There's a hell of a long way to go.

I think as we now have fans who have only experienced the more recent good times, expectations can be a bit unrealistic. Before the season started, I said I believed a top ten place was a realistic target, and just possibly, with luck going our way, a play off place might be just about within reach. We certainly need to vastly improve on yesterday if we are to get close to a top six place, but I will see where we are after 12 games or so. That will be the time to start worrying if things have not improved by then.

It was always going to be a tough season, anybody who thought we were going to waltz the league was with respect living in cloud cuckoo land.

Very very few teams bounce back up at the first time of asking. If we win on Tuesday it will be 2 home wins and 2 away defeats, that won't be the end of the world or a terrible start.

There's a hell of a long way to go.

I think as we now have fans who have only experienced the more recent good times, expectations can be a bit unrealistic. Before the season started, I said I believed a top ten place was a realistic target, and just possibly, with luck going our way, a play off place might be just about within reach. We certainly need to vastly improve on yesterday if we are to get close to a top six place, but I will see where we are after 12 games or so. That will be the time to start worrying if things have not improved by then.

My thoughts exactly mate.

My worry is that he seems to always talk about his position in the past tense.
It as if he is expecting to walk.
I think last season took it out of him and he deserves better.

I agree and thought after the Sala tragedy that he had had enough and would retire as he didn’t seem to have the desire fo4 another 46 game slog ! Not sure if he was persuaded to stay and help “cut the cloth” for Championship football whilst hopefully being competitive?