" General Election "

Brilliant strategic move by Boris .. All this mayhem has been well planned .He knew by suspending Parliament that it would kick off and having to withdraw the whip from the Tory rebels will mean he can replace them in the next election with MPs who will boost his support ..He will be seen as the defender of Brexit v Parliament who betrayed the people ... The key of how this pans out is down to timing of the election ... Three cheers for our public school boy hip hip hooray ...

Can anyone explain why this thread is a sticky.
As usual it is infected by the usual group of extreme right wing posters.
A bit boring to see the same old nonsense regurgitated.

All those with common sense or even half a brain realise that no deal is a ridiculous option. Even the more sensible conservative MPs who have stood by their principles. But posters on here line up behind Boris Johnstone, Gove Duncan Smith and Rees-mogg!!
If I want to read garbage like this I can buy a Daily Mail. So I wont be re opening this thread as I find it very sad that grown men hold such views.
I will stick to footie threads.

It staggers belief that any Welshman could even consider voting Tory after what they've done to us over the years, and like you, the right-wing intimidation and aggression on here frightens me, so time to avoid these political posts and stick to the football ones, me thinks..

At last someone who talks sense. If anyone thinks that the tubby Bullingdon Boy has any connection with us folk is deluded, in his eyes we are no more than third world peasants.

the referendum was a vote on the EU and people voted purely on the EU putting party politics one side.
since then we have had a GE which Labour could have won . had they, a Labour politician would now be doing much the same as Boris { at least that's what their manifesto suggested } would you and lingee then be calling that labour politician names ,and would that politician be right wing ?

Can anyone explain why this thread is a sticky.
As usual it is infected by the usual group of extreme right wing posters.
A bit boring to see the same old nonsense regurgitated.

All those with common sense or even half a brain realise that no deal is a ridiculous option. Even the more sensible conservative MPs who have stood by their principles. But posters on here line up behind Boris Johnstone, Gove Duncan Smith and Rees-mogg!!
If I want to read garbage like this I can buy a Daily Mail. So I wont be re opening this thread as I find it very sad that grown men hold such views.
I will stick to footie threads.

It staggers belief that any Welshman could even consider voting Tory after what they've done to us over the years, and like you, the right-wing intimidation and aggression on here frightens me, so time to avoid these political posts and stick to the football ones, me thinks..

so people should not weigh up their options , read manifestos , pay any attention to how well or poorly a country is being run , how often their MP attends or how they vote just pick a side and stick to it forever
if everyone had your attitude we would have a one party state.

It’s embarrassing that somehow people have been hoodwinked into believing people like Boris or Mogg somehow has any empathy or concern for Wales.

Also it’s incredible that somehow people hate the EU and want to leave but happy to be at the beckoning call and subservient to the elite politicians at westminister. At least with the EU we get to choose and accept or not their regulations... in Wales we don’t have that choice when the Etonian rich spoilt brats make decisions for us.

Westminster has done little for Wales and we are the shit on their shoes (by most parties)

What we really need now is for Wales to emerge as an independent country and be free from the shackles of westminister

Im not a labour support and have never until recently ever thought seriously about independence, but whatever the wrongs and rights of Brexit (and it’s inevitable that we now will leave the EU) has made me realise how in the corridors of west minister our communities are continually ignored and shafted

It’s embarrassing that somehow people have been hoodwinked into believing people like Boris or Mogg somehow has any empathy or concern for Wales.

Also it’s incredible that somehow people hate the EU and want to leave but happy to be at the beckoning call and subservient to the elite politicians at westminister. At least with the EU we get to choose and accept or not their regulations... in Wales we don’t have that choice when the Etonian rich spoilt brats make decisions for us.

Westminster has done little for Wales and we are the shit on their shoes (by most parties)

What we really need now is for Wales to emerge as an independent country and be free from the shackles of westminister

Im not a labour support and have never until recently ever thought seriously about independence, but whatever the wrongs and rights of Brexit (and it’s inevitable that we now will leave the EU) has made me realise how in the corridors of west minister our communities are continually ignored and shafted

Whereas in the corridors of Strasbourg and Brussels they’ll give us some of our own money back because the EU wasn’t set up to benefit Germany it was conceived to make Wales rich and prosperous.

Wales get a much better deal from the EU than we ever got or will get from Westminster

However even as a remainer I accept we will leave

That’s not my point. Whoever is in power in westminister (labour or the Tories, especially the Tories) bear us no or little consideration

Westminister, whether in or out of the EU, have always screwed us in Wales and it’s about time we had the confidence that we can be a sustainable independent country

If the assembly got their act together then IMHO they should be the ones working to better the country seeing as people were so adamant for devolution and more local democracy

If the assembly got their act together then IMHO they should be the ones working to better the country seeing as people were so adamant for devolution and more local democracy

Completely agree 100%

They are somewhat a puddle of piss, however it’s our puddle of piss to make accountable and give them a kick up the arse but yes, that is the right vehicle that needs improving (dramatically)

Wales get a much better deal from the EU than we ever got or will get from Westminster

However even as a remainer I accept we will leave

That’s not my point. Whoever is in power in westminister (labour or the Tories, especially the Tories) bear us no or little consideration

Westminister, whether in or out of the EU, have always screwed us in Wales and it’s about time we had the confidence that we can be a sustainable independent country

Hmmm Wales receives £16billion from Westminster £650m from the EU i.e. Wales receives £15.35billion more from Westminster than Brussels? You have a very strange perception of what is a better deal

Wales get a much better deal from the EU than we ever got or will get from Westminster

However even as a remainer I accept we will leave

That’s not my point. Whoever is in power in westminister (labour or the Tories, especially the Tories) bear us no or little consideration

Westminister, whether in or out of the EU, have always screwed us in Wales and it’s about time we had the confidence that we can be a sustainable independent country

man what are you talking about. Wales has a devolved Government thats been run by labour since it started. what benefit has that given us?

It’s embarrassing that somehow people have been hoodwinked into believing people like Boris or Mogg somehow has any empathy or concern for Wales.

Also it’s incredible that somehow people hate the EU and want to leave but happy to be at the beckoning call and subservient to the elite politicians at westminister. At least with the EU we get to choose and accept or not their regulations... in Wales we don’t have that choice when the Etonian rich spoilt brats make decisions for us.

Westminster has done little for Wales and we are the shit on their shoes (by most parties)

What we really need now is for Wales to emerge as an independent country and be free from the shackles of westminister

Im not a labour support and have never until recently ever thought seriously about independence, but whatever the wrongs and rights of Brexit (and it’s inevitable that we now will leave the EU) has made me realise how in the corridors of west minister our communities are continually ignored and shafted

The more embarrassing point is some people believe that others can't have a different view

Your assumptions are based on putting words in other people's mouths. Very few Welsh based EU leave voters believe Boris or Mogg have any empathy or concern for Wales I certainly don't.

However, we share a common goal and that is to leave the EU. That doesn't mean I will sign up lock stock and barrel to every Boris/Mogg policy. Once we are out of the EU then I am happy to go in a completely different direction. So please don't try and portray leave voters as all raving right wing Tories and to add evidence to this point it is well known that 5 million Labour voters backed leave in the referendum.

It’s embarrassing that somehow people have been hoodwinked into believing people like Boris or Mogg somehow has any empathy or concern for Wales.

Also it’s incredible that somehow people hate the EU and want to leave but happy to be at the beckoning call and subservient to the elite politicians at westminister. At least with the EU we get to choose and accept or not their regulations... in Wales we don’t have that choice when the Etonian rich spoilt brats make decisions for us.

Westminster has done little for Wales and we are the shit on their shoes (by most parties)

What we really need now is for Wales to emerge as an independent country and be free from the shackles of westminister

Im not a labour support and have never until recently ever thought seriously about independence, but whatever the wrongs and rights of Brexit (and it’s inevitable that we now will leave the EU) has made me realise how in the corridors of west minister our communities are continually ignored and shafted

hoodwinked ?
the reason there was a referendum to start with was because of growing public discontent with the EU.
it was already there and tbh if not for the scare tactics of the remain campaign { much of which has all ready been found out to be inaccurate } the majority would have been bigger..

If the assembly got their act together then IMHO they should be the ones working to better the country seeing as people were so adamant for devolution and more local democracy

I have a different view of the assembly. I believe they have done a great job since 1999, the only reason they haven't done better is the limitation on it's powers. The Welsh Assembly is a very much scaled down version on the Scottish Parliament. I always think the fact ours is called an 'Assembly' whilst the Scottish have a 'Parliament' speaks volumes about how much self determination we have.

I would prefer a Scottish type 'Parliament' and then we can really see how self rule might work.

Wales get a much better deal from the EU than we ever got or will get from Westminster

However even as a remainer I accept we will leave

That’s not my point. Whoever is in power in westminister (labour or the Tories, especially the Tories) bear us no or little consideration

Westminister, whether in or out of the EU, have always screwed us in Wales and it’s about time we had the confidence that we can be a sustainable independent country

Fair play, there’s been some dreamy rubbish posted on here over the years, but this is Top of the Pops.

If the assembly got their act together then IMHO they should be the ones working to better the country seeing as people were so adamant for devolution and more local democracy

I have a different view of the assembly. I believe they have done a great job since 1999, the only reason they haven't done better is the limitation on it's powers. The Welsh Assembly is a very much scaled down version on the Scottish Parliament. I always think the fact ours is called an 'Assembly' whilst the Scottish have a 'Parliament' speaks volumes about how much self determination we have.

I would prefer a Scottish type 'Parliament' and then we can really see how self rule might work.

I travel up and down the M4 quite a bit.. yesterday was probably the worse ever but we do not need a relief road.? its a stranglehold on our country and economy mate and more important than 90% of the gunk they do get done.
you only need look around the world at the amazing feats of civil engineering in both big and small countries to realise how out of touch and narrow minded and down right backward thinking our lot are..lets have a tram system that at best will take 7% off a road that now operates at 125% at certain times of the day...yippee.

hoodwinked ?

the reason there was a referendum to start with was because of growing public discontent with the EU.

it was already there and tbh if not for the scare tactics of the remain campaign { much of which has all ready been found out to be inaccurate } the majority would have been bigger..

On your second point I'm not one of those who sign up to the referendum result was influenced either by project fear or leave over spending etc. The result was 52-48% to leave and I strongly believe that was a true reflection of the feelings at the time.

However, your first point is an extremely good and important one. For years there had been growing resentment with the EU. The UK should have had a referendum before agreeing to both the Maastricht Treaty in 1991 and the Lisbon Treaty in 2007 but on both occasions we were denied.

The EEC referendum of 1975 produced a result of 67-33% to remain. Therefore there was a 19% swing from remain to leave in 2016 and this was based on people's experiences of membership of the EU. So either way we were due vote on our membership and I strongly believe that if the remoaners get their beloved second referendum the margin will increase towards leaving because that is the right thing to do and the 2016 result must be honoured.

hoodwinked ?

the reason there was a referendum to start with was because of growing public discontent with the EU.

it was already there and tbh if not for the scare tactics of the remain campaign { much of which has all ready been found out to be inaccurate } the majority would have been bigger..

On your second point I'm not one of those who sign up to the referendum result was influenced either by project fear or leave over spending etc. The result was 52-48% to leave and I strongly believe that was a true reflection of the feelings at the time.

However, your first point is an extremely good and important one. For years there had been growing resentment with the EU. The UK should have had a referendum before agreeing to both the Maastricht Treaty in 1991 and the Lisbon Treaty in 2007 but on both occasions we were denied.

The EEC referendum of 1975 produced a result of 67-33% to remain. Therefore there was a 19% swing from remain to leave in 2016 and this was based on people's experiences of membership of the EU. So either way we were due vote on our membership and I strongly believe that if the remoaners get their beloved second referendum the margin will increase towards leaving because that is the right thing to do and the 2016 result must be honoured.

I believe the 2nd point valid too. the big gun recognisable politicians { very much like the assembly referendum here } were almost all on one side. must have an effect with those who were less certain ?

I travel up and down the M4 quite a bit.. yesterday was probably the worse ever but we do not need a relief road.? its a stranglehold on our country and economy mate and more important than 90% of the gunk they do get done.
you only need look around the world at the amazing feats of civil engineering in both big and small countries to realise how out of touch and narrow minded and down right backward thinking our lot are..lets have a tram system that at best will take 7% off a road that now operates at 125% at certain times of the day...yippee.

I 100% agree with you over the M4 relief road one should be built as the problem is getting worse by the day.

That said the Welsh Assembly would build a relief road if it could but it comes down to cost.

Wales gets a set amount from Westminster plus they receive a proportion of taxation collected in Wales. Added together it comes to about £15-16billion.

50% of that money goes straight to the NHS. The WA then has to fund 20 other areas of devolved power including education, fire service, housing etc.

You don't need to be an economic genius to work out that this money soon runs out and Welsh Government simply doesn't have a spare £1.6billion to build the M4 relief road.

I travel up and down the M4 quite a bit.. yesterday was probably the worse ever but we do not need a relief road.? its a stranglehold on our country and economy mate and more important than 90% of the gunk they do get done.
you only need look around the world at the amazing feats of civil engineering in both big and small countries to realise how out of touch and narrow minded and down right backward thinking our lot are..lets have a tram system that at best will take 7% off a road that now operates at 125% at certain times of the day...yippee.

I 100% agree with you over the M4 relief road one should be built as the problem is getting worse by the day.

That said the Welsh Assembly would build a relief road if it could but it comes down to cost.

Wales gets a set amount from Westminster plus they receive a proportion of taxation collected in Wales. Added together it comes to about £15-16billion.

50% of that money goes straight to the NHS. The WA then has to fund 20 other areas of devolved power including education, fire service, housing etc.

You don't need to be an economic genius to work out that this money soon runs out and Welsh Government simply doesn't have a spare £1.6billion to build the M4 relief road.

Thought the m4 rd would be built borrowing money so doesnt come out of the budget from Westminster! Wag now as the power to borrow on open market for such projects i presume this is what they would have done but who knows with wag? One things for sure cannot just say that's that nothing else will be done that is not an option!

I travel up and down the M4 quite a bit.. yesterday was probably the worse ever but we do not need a relief road.? its a stranglehold on our country and economy mate and more important than 90% of the gunk they do get done.
you only need look around the world at the amazing feats of civil engineering in both big and small countries to realise how out of touch and narrow minded and down right backward thinking our lot are..lets have a tram system that at best will take 7% off a road that now operates at 125% at certain times of the day...yippee.

I 100% agree with you over the M4 relief road one should be built as the problem is getting worse by the day.

That said the Welsh Assembly would build a relief road if it could but it comes down to cost.

Wales gets a set amount from Westminster plus they receive a proportion of taxation collected in Wales. Added together it comes to about £15-16billion.

50% of that money goes straight to the NHS. The WA then has to fund 20 other areas of devolved power including education, fire service, housing etc.

You don't need to be an economic genius to work out that this money soon runs out and Welsh Government simply doesn't have a spare £1.6billion to build the M4 relief road.

a means of funding some of a new relief road was already in place with the tolls for the bridge which people might not have liked but accepted.
the road or lack of road costs our country a fortune and more importantly growth..how bad does it have to get before it gets done { which will take years to build }

I believe the 2nd point valid too. the big gun recognisable politicians { very much like the assembly referendum here } were almost all on one side. must have an effect with those who were less certain ?

Yes voters would have been influenced but as we have seen since 2016 either side is very much entrenched and the numbers influenced would have been small. I still think 52/48% was a fair reflection of opinion at that time.

However, I do believe that the numbers wishing to leave has increased since 2016 if only because most British voters are fair minded and would believe the 2016 result must be honoured and the antics of the remoaners has been anything but honourable in their efforts to derail BREXIT. I believe the leave slogan in another referendum would be "TELL THEM AGAIN" and that would be a powerful message.

a means of funding some of a new relief road was already in place with the tolls for the bridge which people might not have liked but accepted.
the road or lack of road costs our country a fortune and more importantly growth..how bad does it have to get before it gets done { which will take years to build }

I agree that the lack of a relief road is affecting our economy and one should be built. I know my local AM and he has explained the difficulties in raising funding for the M4 relief road. They also want one built but it is not as simple as charging road tolls (which also damages the economic growth) or putting up taxation (another economic damage to growth) or diverting money from the NHS (a political no go)

The Conservatives, PC or Libdems would all face the same realities. The only viable option is to ask Westminster to pay for it and you can see how that would play out.

a means of funding some of a new relief road was already in place with the tolls for the bridge which people might not have liked but accepted.
the road or lack of road costs our country a fortune and more importantly growth..how bad does it have to get before it gets done { which will take years to build }

I agree that the lack of a relief road is affecting our economy and one should be built. I know my local AM and he has explained the difficulties in raising funding for the M4 relief road. They also want one built but it is not as simple as charging road tolls (which also damages the economic growth) or putting up taxation (another economic damage to growth) or diverting money from the NHS (a political no go)

The Conservatives, PC or Libdems would all face the same realities. The only viable option is to ask Westminster to pay for it and you can see how that would play out.

tbh mate im fed up of the excuses . I look at the railways /canals , viaducts, bridges, tunnels , docks built by our predecessors in the 1800s and scratch my head at the million and one excuses to not build this relief road..it seems to me that lets find a way has changed into lets find an excuse.

If the assembly got their act together then IMHO they should be the ones working to better the country seeing as people were so adamant for devolution and more local democracy

I have a different view of the assembly. I believe they have done a great job since 1999, the only reason they haven't done better is the limitation on it's powers. The Welsh Assembly is a very much scaled down version on the Scottish Parliament. I always think the fact ours is called an 'Assembly' whilst the Scottish have a 'Parliament' speaks volumes about how much self determination we have.

I would prefer a Scottish type 'Parliament' and then we can really see how self rule might work.

The SNP have been running the show for a decade buttill blame Westminster for everything. Outcomes in in health an education are terrible, be very careful what you wish for. Imagine a Marxist looney like Drakeford running the show.

It’s embarrassing that somehow people have been hoodwinked into believing people like Boris or Mogg somehow has any empathy or concern for Wales.

Also it’s incredible that somehow people hate the EU and want to leave but happy to be at the beckoning call and subservient to the elite politicians at westminister. At least with the EU we get to choose and accept or not their regulations... in Wales we don’t have that choice when the Etonian rich spoilt brats make decisions for us.

Westminster has done little for Wales and we are the shit on their shoes (by most parties)

What we really need now is for Wales to emerge as an independent country and be free from the shackles of westminister

Im not a labour support and have never until recently ever thought seriously about independence, but whatever the wrongs and rights of Brexit (and it’s inevitable that we now will leave the EU) has made me realise how in the corridors of west minister our communities are continually ignored and shafted

The more embarrassing point is some people believe that others can't have a different view

Your assumptions are based on putting words in other people's mouths. Very few Welsh based EU leave voters believe Boris or Mogg have any empathy or concern for Wales I certainly don't.

However, we share a common goal and that is to leave the EU. That doesn't mean I will sign up lock stock and barrel to every Boris/Mogg policy. Once we are out of the EU then I am happy to go in a completely different direction. So please don't try and portray leave voters as all raving right wing Tories and to add evidence to this point it is well known that 5 million Labour voters backed leave in the referendum.

I don't think its an assumption at all.
leavers are daft, did not understand what they voted for , right wing extremists. and now align leave with certain MPs forgetting that Corbs is anti EU ay heart but has abandoned his principles
its called throw enough sh@t and some might stick.

I really don't give a rats arse whether we remain or leave the EU. I don't even believe that the EU referendum was really an in or out vote on the merits of the EU, it was a barometer of the feeling towards politics and especially politicians in the country.

I have all those below to represent me

Community council (I pay extra on my council tax for this privilege), but they do keep the communities plants and verges tidy
RCT council ....Roads, schools, refuse, they all affect my life
Wales Government.. No idea what they do, but have met many Cardiff bay civil servants, its a money pit
Parliament .. Tells us that the EU make most of our laws
House of Lords ... Unelected, selected by those in power, banana republics would be embarrassed.
European Commission - Unelected (by the general population) but rule makers
European parliament... Talk a lot and generally endorse the commission, there to make the EU look democratic
European council.... Represent the nations governments (surely that is the counter productive)

If we stay in the EU, we need a serious national discussion on the structure of parliament and the devolved institutions. I really don't see why we need AM's and MPs. Why can't the AM's go to the UK parliament for 2 day every fortnight to talk national things not mandated by the EU and Cardiff bay for the local issues.

We have done FA in the country for 3 years......Nothing !!!

Have you been to Heath hospital lately it look soviet, my kids school can't repair its roof but local, national and European government is thriving !!!! Its a scam. Great if you are on the gravy train, of course you wouldn't want it to stop.

We don't need to be a part of the EU institutions, but we do need to play ball to ensure the wheels don't come off for a few years, it will cost us, but thats life. We then need to look at the number of MP's and the function of the devolved powers and scrap the House of lords.

Labour are by nature big government, they believe that they should (positively) touch your life.... They even though the leader understands the commission is a corrupt multi nationals corporation patsy, there to further their profits, still fundamentally agrees with the whole concept. They are internationalists.

I also believe that labour get mullered in this election. Three years of no opinion is so wimpy compared to Brexit Party, Boris's Tories, lib dems or nats.

Wales get a much better deal from the EU than we ever got or will get from Westminster

However even as a remainer I accept we will leave

That’s not my point. Whoever is in power in westminister (labour or the Tories, especially the Tories) bear us no or little consideration

Westminister, whether in or out of the EU, have always screwed us in Wales and it’s about time we had the confidence that we can be a sustainable independent country

Hmmm Wales receives £16billion from Westminster £650m from the EU i.e. Wales receives £15.35billion more from Westminster than Brussels? You have a very strange perception of what is a better deal

Well said

Remember the traitors when it comes to an election

This is a good piece of research from 2016 about the net benefits to wales being in the EU.

http://orca.cf.ac.uk/117513/1/Estimatin ... -Union.pdf

However seems like we are leaving but I really don’t trust the Tories to leave in the best way possible

The Tories should have created a bipartisan negotiation team in 2016 in order to bring other parties to the table to input ... getting a deal would be much easier if there was some cross party agreement on a deal

In terms of no deal I don’t go along with the scare mongers but the negative net effect on the economy and academia will be felt for a long time

Despite my obvious left learning I agree with the majority of people on here that A Corbyn led government would be an absolute disaster. What a quite horrible and incompetent man he is

I’m just looking forward to getting back to football as the whole episode had been toxic and divisive

This is a good piece of research from 2016 about the net benefits to wales being in the EU.

http://orca.cf.ac.uk/117513/1/Estimatin ... -Union.pdf

However seems like we are leaving but I really don’t trust the Tories to leave in the best way possible

The Tories should have created a bipartisan negotiation team in 2016 in order to bring other parties to the table to input ... getting a deal would be much easier if there was some cross party agreement on a deal

In terms of no deal I don’t go along with the scare mongers but the negative net effect on the economy and academia will be felt for a long time

Despite my obvious left learning I agree with the majority of people on here that A Corbyn led government would be an absolute disaster. What a quite horrible and incompetent man he is

I’m just looking forward to getting back to football as the whole episode had been toxic and divisive

The 'report' you point to states that it is 'estimated' that Wales receives £245m more from the EU than it contributes to EU coffers. The report also states that the UK as a whole paid in £8.9 BILLION more than it received in funding from the EU in 2016 (that is now nearer £12 BILLION i.e. £1 BILLION per month).

Therefore the paltry £245m Wales is 'estimated' to benefit from EU membership is around ONE WEEK'S contribution from the UK coffers to the EU budget. BIG BLOODY DEAL