" General Election "

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Re: " General Election "

Postby Sneggyblubird » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:51 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an :roll: estimate :lol: will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute. ;)


You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union. :roll:

The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.

Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?

That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response ;)



Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
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Re: " General Election "

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Re: " General Election "

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:Its almost certain it will be a hung parliament then what? Only option then is for a new referendum and leave win then what? Already rejected a deal cannot go back say we will accept previous deal! Idiot mps dont have a fcking clue, :roll:


I am taking anecdotal view here but at a guess I would think the Tories would happy with the same result as 2017. The difference this time would be they have rid themselves of 21 remain Tory MP's. Along with a new confidence and supply agreement with the DUP they would just have the numbers to get a no deal (or any negotiated deal with the EU) through Parliament.



Problem is whilst cons be better off without the remainer MPs and new more party types because may put in backstop DUP wont support them ! May knew what she was doing when negotiating Brexit (backstop stupid decision) now cannot see a deal being done only leave without a deal because EU happy to do nothing to agree deal why should they when hold out for another referendum in uk,
just like Ireland ect who took several votes before Irish gvmnt got what they wanted EU hoping same with UK..
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Jock » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:31 pm

Sneggyblubird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an :roll: estimate :lol: will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute. ;)


You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union. :roll:

The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.

Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?

That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response ;)



Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

You do know Commonwealth Countries economies have grown three times as fast as the Eurozone?
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Re: " General Election "

Postby spikeferndale » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:25 pm

Jock,

Where is the evidence that Commonwealth countries economies have grown at 3 times the rate of the Euro Zone?
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Jock » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:48 am

spikeferndale wrote:Jock,

Where is the evidence that Commonwealth countries economies have grown at 3 times the rate of the Euro Zone?

Plenty on line, also plenty confirms the eurozone economy has flatlined.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby BlueGog » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:48 am

Jock wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an :roll: estimate :lol: will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute. ;)


You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union. :roll:

The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.

Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?

That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response ;)


Independence must be working for them! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

You do know Commonwealth Countries economies have grown three times as fast as the Eurozone?
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Re: " General Election "

Postby BlueGog » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:50 am

Jock wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an :roll: estimate :lol: will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute. ;)


You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union. :roll:

The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.

Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?

That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response ;)



Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

You do know Commonwealth Countries economies have grown three times as fast as the Eurozone?



Independence must be working for them! We'll have to try it :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: " General Election "

Postby brickyblue » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:00 am

The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
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Re: " General Election "

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:41 am

brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it



The worrying thing is now the gates have been opened every bit of legislation can be exploited and derailed in future ! Remain MPs have used loophole to force situation we are in today nothing to stop political parties doing similar to get their way in future over things dont agree on..... :o
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Sneggyblubird » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:18 am

brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:26 pm

Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.


Project fear is now quickly becoming a reality? Sorry I missed the punishment budget, the 800,000 job losses and WWIII :? When did they happen? :lol:

If we make so much money out of the EU then why did we run a trade deficit of £64 BILLION with the EU in 2018? Put it this way if we are making loads of money out being EU members as you claim then EU are making a hell of a lot more out of us and take a net £12 BILLION in contributions AS WELL :shock:

Surely you can understand that is not fair or right?

If you have read my previous postings about the EU as you claim then you will find that immigration is not my top priority but I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.

Actually my number one concern about the EU is it's lack of accountability and democracy. EU laws are created by the appointed commissioners of the EU Commission. They cannot be held to account or removed from office by the electorate. The EU Parliament is basically Brussels version of the House of Lords where MEP's can only recommend amendments to legislation put forward by the EU Commission and they have no powers to create laws themselves.

Also any country that steps out of line is treated like shit. A number of member states have rejected EU laws in referendum and they have been told to 'vote again' until the EU gets the result it wants. I really hope Boris does stick to his guns and gets us out. At last a country with enough clout and backbone would have stood up to the EU bully boys and beaten them.

Of course things would be a lot easier if the brainwashed reamainers would just accept the result of the EU referendum and stop acting as EU fifth columnists
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:36 pm

Sneggyblubird wrote:
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?


Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.

The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:39 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.



Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?
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Re: " General Election "

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:47 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?


Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.

The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.

You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?
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Re: " General Election "

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:16 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?


Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.

The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.

You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?



That's the point may put in a condition (backstop) that was never going to be accepted by DUP the very party that kept her in power and who were pivotal in getting Brexit through parliament?..... By doing it she new Brexit from the beginning was dead and wasted 3yrs of parliaments time.... only way out is to find an alternative to backstop but wont hold.my breath as EU have no intention of agreeing anything now Corbyn and CO have screwed the people in wanting a new referendum! EU just biding there time until uk revoke article 50? Cannot see us leaving without a deal due to underhand tactics of labour and co :old:
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Jock » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:47 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?


Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.

The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.

You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?

Do you believe the EU is a democratic organisation?
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Sneggyblubird » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:52 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?


Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.

The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.


The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Steve Zodiak » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:08 pm

Hope the new Speaker is a bit more impartial than the present one. Good riddance to him I say.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:10 pm

Jock wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?


Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.

The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.

You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?

Do you believe the EU is a democratic organisation?


Surely the question should be- Do you believe that the EU is undemocratic because the UK proposed something. And my answer to that question is of course not.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Bluebina » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:14 pm

The first remoaner gone, all the rest in a month or two will follow him!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... is-johnson
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Re: " General Election "

Postby brickyblue » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:51 pm

The fact is we voted to leave the EU if after over 3 years we cant agree we just got to get on with it and go .
The pound has suffered and britain is stifled.
Why are these Mps trying to continuously delaying it it's got to stop somewhere .
Weather borris voted not to except the previous deals who cares.im not a Tory never have been but hes said leave on the 31 st with or without a deal either way it's got to happend to eventually stabilise the country again.
Most of the mps are trying to destabilise things because they want to remain in the EU.
We've voted so get on with it bunch of idiots arguing over things that have been voted for by the very people they are supposed to serve.Arseholes.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Jock » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:23 pm

brickyblue wrote:The fact is we voted to leave the EU if after over 3 years we cant agree we just got to get on with it and go .
The pound has suffered and britain is stifled.
Why are these Mps trying to continuously delaying it it's got to stop somewhere .
Weather borris voted not to except the previous deals who cares.im not a Tory never have been but hes said leave on the 31 st with or without a deal either way it's got to happend to eventually stabilise the country again.
Most of the mps are trying to destabilise things because they want to remain in the EU.
We've voted so get on with it bunch of idiots arguing over things that have been voted for by the very people they are supposed to serve.Arseholes.

Google the Bilderberg Group mate. Remainers like Major, Blair, Mandelson and Osborne are up to their armpits in it.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby ElyBoy1984 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:51 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:Hope the new Speaker is a bit more impartial than the present one. Good riddance to him I say.

Doubtful unfortunately, i believe the next speaker will be voted for by this remain parliament. Unlikely he/she will be neutral.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby ElyBoy1984 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:56 pm

Sneggyblubird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it


Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?


Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.

The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.


The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.


Ireland have said they won't erect a hard border. E.U. have said they won't erect one.
Britain won't erect a hard border.
Many of remain tactics seem based on scaremongering. Just like George Osborne's forecast of an emergency budget if we voted leave. that didn't happen.
These people will say almost anything to keep the gravy train going.
ElyBoy1984
 
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Re: " General Election "

Postby ElyBoy1984 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:58 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.



Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?

Lol Walk about town.
Freedom of movement is about exploitation of workers. I'm not a socialist but i can't understand why some Labour(not all) people go along with it.
ElyBoy1984
 
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Jock » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:34 am

ElyBoy1984 wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.

take people from a low wage economy and put them in a higher wage economy and wages stall or drop. There is pressure on housing in the UK, adding immigrants makes that worse.

Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?

Lol Walk about town.
Freedom of movement is about exploitation of workers. I'm not a socialist but i can't understand why some Labour(not all) people go along with it.
Jock
 
Posts: 2018
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:58 am

CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.



Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?


The UK population is increasing by 300,000 per year (net). A City the size of Cardiff needs to be built every year to keep up with the housing needs of the UK and that is simply not happening. Walk through Cardiff, Newport or Swansea City Centres and see the dozens of homeless people who can't find accommodation as a result. If you really believe that uncontrolled immigration and homelessness have no link then that is up to you but frankly it is delusional.
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Tony Blue Williams
 
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 am

Sneggyblubird wrote:
The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.


The EU manufactured the Irish backstop by insisting on a Withdrawal deal before a free trade deal. It was perfectly possible to negotiate a free trade before or along side a withdrawal agreement. Your comparison with USA is non-applicable. We can't sign a deal with USA until we leave the EU but we can certainly negotiate a deal in lieu of leaving.

What the EU have done is insisted on a Withdrawal agreement first and then want to talk about a free trade agreement. This causes a hiatus which has been filled by the backstop which is basically a gun to our head whilst we negotiate with EU. That is totally wrong and anyone who argues it's fairness has to be brainwashed.

Further you don't seem to understand what the backstop is? It is a fall back position where the UK is held within the Customs Union and Single Market against its will if we (the UK) do-not accept any old crap trade deal the EU offers. The UK is not erecting a hard boarder which has been ruled out a hundred times. Whatever deal is struck there will be freedom of movement on the Island of Ireland due to agreements made when Ireland gained it's independence in 1922 and the Good Friday agreement in 1998. If the Good Friday Agreement collapses then the fault will lay completely with the EU as they will be the ones erecting a hard boarder.
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Tony Blue Williams
 
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Re: " General Election "

Postby Sneggyblubird » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:01 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.


The EU manufactured the Irish backstop by insisting on a Withdrawal deal before a free trade deal. It was perfectly possible to negotiate a free trade before or along side a withdrawal agreement. Your comparison with USA is non-applicable. We can't sign a deal with USA until we leave the EU but we can certainly negotiate a deal in lieu of leaving.

What the EU have done is insisted on a Withdrawal agreement first and then want to talk about a free trade agreement. This causes a hiatus which has been filled by the backstop which is basically a gun to our head whilst we negotiate with EU. That is totally wrong and anyone who argues it's fairness has to be brainwashed.

Further you don't seem to understand what the backstop is? It is a fall back position where the UK is held within the Customs Union and Single Market against its will if we (the UK) do-not accept any old crap trade deal the EU offers. The UK is not erecting a hard boarder which has been ruled out a hundred times. Whatever deal is struck there will be freedom of movement on the Island of Ireland due to agreements made when Ireland gained it's independence in 1922 and the Good Friday agreement in 1998. If the Good Friday Agreement collapses then the fault will lay completely with the EU as they will be the ones erecting a hard boarder.


I'm finding it difficult to find the right words to reply to your last sentence.The Good Friday Agreement brokered by the Americans is solely our responsibility and no one else's.Dominic Rabb uttered this shit as a negotiating tool but very quickly backtracked when reminded of the implications of that statement.Blaming some one else for your responsibility is a cowards way out.Like it or not free movement in Ireland has been the cornerstone of the peace we have all enjoyed for over twenty years now.I get it, you want a clean brake but in doing so you must show respect to all sides of the argument and not just toss away all that you deem as non-important in your little corner of the world.
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Re: " General Election "

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:03 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.

We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.

I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.



Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?


The UK population is increasing by 300,000 per year (net). A City the size of Cardiff needs to be built every year to keep up with the housing needs of the UK and that is simply not happening. Walk through Cardiff, Newport or Swansea City Centres and see the dozens of homeless people who can't find accommodation as a result. If you really believe that uncontrolled immigration and homelessness have no link then that is up to you but frankly it is delusional.

There's been homelessness for thousands of years before the EU came into existence, I'm asking for evidence of a causal link between freedom of movement and homelessness.
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