Sale of grounds and FFP

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Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby Isawgarystevensscoreagoal » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:54 pm

Can't believe how stupid FA and football league authorities are to allow clubs to sell their grounds in the first place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49600851

Villa, Derby, Sheff Weds and Reading all at it.

What possible good can come from it? Can't repeat the process next time club needs cash. As for valuation, who else would buy it if football club weren't tenant? The odd rugby club might be big enough to want such a venue but who would buy Derby's ground for similar use? Forrest, Burton?

Its a nonsense and can only lead to future financial issues for the clubs concerned and I can't believe its within the rules.
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Sale of grounds and FFP

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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:07 pm

Isawgarystevensscoreagoal wrote:Can't believe how stupid FA and football league authorities are to allow clubs to sell their grounds in the first place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49600851

Villa, Derby, Sheff Weds and Reading all at it.

What possible good can come from it? Can't repeat the process next time club needs cash. As for valuation, who else would buy it if football club weren't tenant? The odd rugby club might be big enough to want such a venue but who would buy Derby's ground for similar use? Forrest, Burton?

Its a nonsense and can only lead to future financial issues for the clubs concerned and I can't believe its within the rules.




There should be rules in place to stop it after all authorities brought in rules regarding club's paying above market prices for sponsorship deals like shirts ect, also rules in place to stop relatives of owners putting in money via companies? All for ffp and yet owner can buy the ground and put in millions of pounds to avoid ffp penalties! Its dodgy for clubs as Coventry's problems were compounded by fact someone else owned ground after it was sold and club powerless to do anything when owners sold it again to rugby club now they are homeless just like Wimbledon was after suffering same thing. .
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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby Isawgarystevensscoreagoal » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:18 pm

New territory Pembroke, we are almost agreeing I think!

Ground ownership should be club or council and no one else. Can't be retrospective but sooner clubs can't sell their ground in this way the better and if there was a way clubs that have clearly done this to bypass FFP rules are made to buy back better still. Its wealthy owners accountants and money men taking football for a ride whilst no doubt taking a cut.
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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:24 pm

Isawgarystevensscoreagoal wrote:New territory Pembroke, we are almost agreeing I think!

Ground ownership should be club or council and no one else. Can't be retrospective but sooner clubs can't sell their ground in this way the better and if there was a way clubs that have clearly done this to bypass FFP rules are made to buy back better still. Its wealthy owners accountants and money men taking football for a ride whilst no doubt taking a cut.



We do agree! :mrgreen:
And your right the sale should be reversed and given back to club! The danger is if owner sells club he obviously sells ground aswell next owner may have his on agenda for ground? huddersfield lost all the land around their stadium when a new owner took over! We lost income from shops when risdale sold the rights to that rugby bloke... very dangerous territory for any club :thumbup:
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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby PtB » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:24 am

This is one of the many things that happened to us at Clydebank back in the mid 90s. I've banged on about it for years but the truth is - those at the top don't care.

It ultimately led to our demise. The owner(The Steedman family, of over 30 years I may add), promised us a new stadium on the outskirts of town modelled on the new stadium at Glanford Park. Kilbowie Park was sold to a developer and land was purchased on the outskirts of town but planning permission denied.

Two years later he sold the club to a businessman who tried several times to relocate the club including a move to Dublin and a 'merger' with Carlisle that would have allowed them into the Scottish League. By 2002 we were on our knees playing 40 miles from home and crowds had dropped by 80% before he sold us to the bloke who had failed to keep Airdrie alive and in effect we were franchised and Airdrie had a new club. All the while, the Steedman family retained the land the club had bought for the new build that still lies vacant more than 20 years on. They had also retained the money from the original land sale and moved lock stock and barrel to the USA.

The Airdrie bloke then gained seats at the top table of the Scottish Football League and the SFA over the years. That kind of tells you everything about those at the top of the structures!

That's the short version!
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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:29 am

PtB wrote:This is one of the many things that happened to us at Clydebank back in the mid 90s. I've banged on about it for years but the truth is - those at the top don't care.

It ultimately led to our demise. The owner(The Steedman family, of over 30 years I may add), promised us a new stadium on the outskirts of town modelled on the new stadium at Glanford Park. Kilbowie Park was sold to a developer and land was purchased on the outskirts of town but planning permission denied.

Two years later he sold the club to a businessman who tried several times to relocate the club including a move to Dublin and a 'merger' with Carlisle that would have allowed them into the Scottish League. By 2002 we were on our knees playing 40 miles from home and crowds had dropped by 80% before he sold us to the bloke who had failed to keep Airdrie alive and in effect we were franchised and Airdrie had a new club. All the while, the Steedman family retained the land the club had bought for the new build that still lies vacant more than 20 years on. They had also retained the money from the original land sale and moved lock stock and barrel to the USA.

The Airdrie bloke then gained seats at the top table of the Scottish Football League and the SFA over the years. That kind of tells you everything about those at the top of the structures!

That's the short version!



Someone doesn't care or havent learned lessons of the clubs effected by these sharp practices? No doubt the practice of owners buying their ground should be stopped! Lucky it cannot happen at city unless council in on the scam....
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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby PtB » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:34 am

pembroke allan wrote:
PtB wrote:This is one of the many things that happened to us at Clydebank back in the mid 90s. I've banged on about it for years but the truth is - those at the top don't care.

It ultimately led to our demise. The owner(The Steedman family, of over 30 years I may add), promised us a new stadium on the outskirts of town modelled on the new stadium at Glanford Park. Kilbowie Park was sold to a developer and land was purchased on the outskirts of town but planning permission denied.

Two years later he sold the club to a businessman who tried several times to relocate the club including a move to Dublin and a 'merger' with Carlisle that would have allowed them into the Scottish League. By 2002 we were on our knees playing 40 miles from home and crowds had dropped by 80% before he sold us to the bloke who had failed to keep Airdrie alive and in effect we were franchised and Airdrie had a new club. All the while, the Steedman family retained the land the club had bought for the new build that still lies vacant more than 20 years on. They had also retained the money from the original land sale and moved lock stock and barrel to the USA.

The Airdrie bloke then gained seats at the top table of the Scottish Football League and the SFA over the years. That kind of tells you everything about those at the top of the structures!

That's the short version!



Someone doesn't care or havent learned lessons of the clubs effected by these sharp practices? No doubt the practice of owners buying their ground should be stopped! Lucky it cannot happen at city unless council in on the scam....


I'm more inclined to go down the don't are route as these things keep happening and no lessons are learned. Some of the conversations we had with governing bodies at the time and what actually happened thereafter were so far apart you couldn't make it up.
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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:51 am

PtB wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
PtB wrote:This is one of the many things that happened to us at Clydebank back in the mid 90s. I've banged on about it for years but the truth is - those at the top don't care.

It ultimately led to our demise. The owner(The Steedman family, of over 30 years I may add), promised us a new stadium on the outskirts of town modelled on the new stadium at Glanford Park. Kilbowie Park was sold to a developer and land was purchased on the outskirts of town but planning permission denied.

Two years later he sold the club to a businessman who tried several times to relocate the club including a move to Dublin and a 'merger' with Carlisle that would have allowed them into the Scottish League. By 2002 we were on our knees playing 40 miles from home and crowds had dropped by 80% before he sold us to the bloke who had failed to keep Airdrie alive and in effect we were franchised and Airdrie had a new club. All the while, the Steedman family retained the land the club had bought for the new build that still lies vacant more than 20 years on. They had also retained the money from the original land sale and moved lock stock and barrel to the USA.

The Airdrie bloke then gained seats at the top table of the Scottish Football League and the SFA over the years. That kind of tells you everything about those at the top of the structures!

That's the short version!



Someone doesn't care or havent learned lessons of the clubs effected by these sharp practices? No doubt the practice of owners buying their ground should be stopped! Lucky it cannot happen at city unless council in on the scam....


I'm more inclined to go down the don't are route as these things keep happening and no lessons are learned. Some of the conversations we had with governing bodies at the time and what actually happened thereafter were so far apart you couldn't make it up.



It's a simple thing to do though banning the practice! I think they are only looking into villa because several premier clubs asked questions of it? There are about 5 others who've done it that should raise red flag as to why they are doing so?
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Re: Sale of grounds and FFP

Postby Isawgarystevensscoreagoal » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:22 pm

The clubs just mentioned, Villa, Derby, Reading and Forrest already have developmed grounds.

There are two wrongs here.

Clubs selling ground with developable land around it for residential and commercial use AND then clubs who have grounds who have a cash injection to avoid FFP rules and are taking serious risks with their future. Coventry being the best and most high profile case. Fans stuffed. Club stuffed.
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