Boris do as your told

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

I agree, you have to keep voting though. What else can we do?

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

I agree, you have to keep voting though. What else can we do?

I can see what you mean, and prior to the referendum I would have agreed with you. I no longer see the point in any further visits to the polling station as in my opinion democracy ceased to exist in this country when Parliament decided not to honour the result. I remember the "once in a generation speeches", the "we will let the people decide" speeches and many more. I have for a long time been of the opinion that a politician lies almost every time their lips move, but never thought in my lifetime I would see the biggest ever vote in this country be ignored.

I have said on here previously that throughout my life, if I had no access to media etc., I would never know which party was in government at any given time. My life has remained pretty much the same whoever is in power, and will do so whether we are in or out of the EU. Not really bothered. My gripe is with politicians from both sides of the debate not carrying out the pledges they all made in the run up to the vote, and the fact that in my mind democracy in the UK has been completely undermined in the last few years. Be interesting to see who runs the country in the future, the government or the courts.

The only reason for brexit is for the rich to get richer and not pay the new EU tax laws.

Other reasons, end homelessness, increase pay, take back control, no EU Army, not ruled by appointed commissioners to mention a few.

Brexit will end homelessness? According to shelter homelessness is going up by an equivalent of 36 a day and last year there was at least 320,000 homeless people but potentially next month that number will be 0?
EU army- We use our veto, the only way there can be an EU army is if we leave therefore it does appear you're in favour of one.
Take back control- except people on here moan about judges, Welsh and national government.
Increase pay- for those who will still have jobs presumably

Before we joined the Common Market, I never saw anyone living in shop doorways. Food banks were unheard of, and I doubt if any of us could ever imagine this country needing them. Getting a job was easy. When I left school, I applied for three, was accepted for two of them and then had to choose which one to take. If I had not liked it, no problem, plenty more to choose from. Knife crime was not a daily occurrence.Is any of this the fault of the EU? Almost certainly no, but don't claim that the EU is all about plus points and no negatives. Homelessness, food banks, high unemployment and plenty more has all come about since we were part of this club. Not claiming everything was perfect by any means prior to this, but things have been far from perfect during our time in the EU.

You don't think you might be looking at things with rose tinted specs and maybe after nearly 50 years you don't remember every homeless person?

Homelessness has been around for hundreds of years, the Victorians are famous for homelessness and work houses so you can't say it's come about since we joined.
Leaving the EU won't end knife crime, it won't suddenly allow everyone to choose from every job around, it won't end homelessness or food banks.
You say that none of that's the fault of the EU but still kind of blame them so I assume you'll be praising them for things which we now have but didn't have before like the internet (even though it wasn't the EU's invention)?

The only reason for brexit is for the rich to get richer and not pay the new EU tax laws.

Other reasons, end homelessness, increase pay, take back control, no EU Army, not ruled by appointed commissioners to mention a few.

Brexit will end homelessness? According to shelter homelessness is going up by an equivalent of 36 a day and last year there was at least 320,000 homeless people but potentially next month that number will be 0?
EU army- We use our veto, the only way there can be an EU army is if we leave therefore it does appear you're in favour of one.
Take back control- except people on here moan about judges, Welsh and national government.
Increase pay- for those who will still have jobs presumably

Before we joined the Common Market, I never saw anyone living in shop doorways. Food banks were unheard of, and I doubt if any of us could ever imagine this country needing them. Getting a job was easy. When I left school, I applied for three, was accepted for two of them and then had to choose which one to take. If I had not liked it, no problem, plenty more to choose from. Knife crime was not a daily occurrence.Is any of this the fault of the EU? Almost certainly no, but don't claim that the EU is all about plus points and no negatives. Homelessness, food banks, high unemployment and plenty more has all come about since we were part of this club. Not claiming everything was perfect by any means prior to this, but things have been far from perfect during our time in the EU.

You don't think you might be looking at things with rose tinted specs and maybe after nearly 50 years you don't remember every homeless person?

Homelessness has been around for hundreds of years, the Victorians are famous for homelessness and work houses so you can't say it's come about since we joined.
Leaving the EU won't end knife crime, it won't suddenly allow everyone to choose from every job around, it won't end homelessness or food banks.
You say that none of that's the fault of the EU but still kind of blame them so I assume you'll be praising them for things which we now have but didn't have before like the internet (even though it wasn't the EU's invention)?

No, what I am saying is that if you are an ordinary person like me, ie. not a millionaire, neither of us will see any huge difference whether we are in or out. Lifestyles in the UK did not suddenly improve just because we joined, and we will not suddenly become paupers living on the streets if we leave. I am 100% against the vision that Chancellor Kohl had of Europe, although I would hope Merkel is of the same opinion as me. May be worth you looking at some of his speeches and hope that not too many in Brussels have a similar opinion.

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Sorry I seem to have missed your outrage when Daniel Kawczynski begged the polish government to veto or when comrade farage also pleaded for a veto . I would also keep quiet on that whole underhand ways thing after what the courts ruled about Johnson the other week.

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Sorry I seem to have missed your outrage when Daniel Kawczynski begged the polish government to veto or when comrade farage also pleaded for a veto . I would also keep quiet on that whole underhand ways thing after what the courts ruled about Johnson the other week.

Yes you did you must have been using another of your names so unfortunately for Josh he missed it! never mind sure it wont be last time miss something...!

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Its become obvious that EU don't want Brexit on 31st because they hope it will be put back to a public vote or remainers will take over parliament business again and cancel article 50! Brexit is the last thing EU wants deal or no deal so why would they endorse any agreement? And bercow is only stoking the fires of EU believe that uk will abandon Brexit along with corbyns idea of referendum by just having leave by mutual agreement with EU or remain on the ballot paper....

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

If you believe that you are more naïve than I thought. Even the Irish PM has said Boris wants a deal. It is obvious Boris wants a deal, he wants to leave the EU, and he knows he hasn't got a cat in hells chance of that happening without a favourable deal in place first. He will never get an acceptable one from the EU, they cannot allow us to leave. Where will the EU be in five years time if the UK has left and prospered as a result. Would that be a gamble they are prepared to take? I think not.

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

Whats anti democratic ?

Anti democratic is when a result of a referendum is not enacted upon and the losing side try to derail the result.

As for the referendum being 'advisory' the Government asked the people for advice on leaving the EU and the majority said YES please leave. Therefore time to go

Must be home and dry then.

I am fairly certain, as I have been for the last couple of years, that we will never leave. The EU will make things as difficult as possible for us simply because they need our money. Parliament will not let us leave because too many of them have their snouts in the trough. Doesn't really matter one way or the other what the people of the UK want, ultimately we will all have to do exactly as we are told. Won't make any difference to me as I am not filthy rich, other than it will save me further visits to the local polling station as this will be proof that my view only counts providing it is acceptable to 650 people who base themselves in London.

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with your view on this more and more each passing day Steve.

To quote the Manics "Democracy is an Empty Lie"

Heavenly version was always better in my mind https://soundcloud.com/heavenlyrecordin ... -preachers

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

The EU trade deal with African countries is holding them back and the main beneficiary of the arrangement is Germany, the EU massively subsidies farmers who flood Africa with cheap produce preventing them from adding value and stopping homegrown businesses growing. The EU is so dysfunctional it’s taken over 20 years to crack a trade deal with 4 Latin American countries and a region of Austria has just vetoed it again. Erdogan has boasted his forces could overrun Germany in an hour and France by lunchtime. Do you really believe an EU Army could keep us secure? The economy of Commonwealth countries has grown 3 times as fast as the Eurozone. Think you fall for the myths perpetuated by the MSM, particularly Sky, Ch4 and the BBC.

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

I think sometimes you underestimate your own country Josh. Have to remember we are the world's 5th largest economy. It is not simply a case of us relying on the EU, and any obstacles put up in the event of a no deal Brexit affecting just the UK. Our economy dwarfs that of many of the EU countries, and they need to trade with us with as few restrictions as possible. Just take a look at the French and German companies prevalent in this country right now. They want as smooth a transition as possible. We are all aware of German jobs in the car industry being reliant on smooth trade with the UK. There are plenty of others. One of the main suppliers of energy in this country is French owned, and EDF were my gas supplier for 18 years up until last year. This is not all about the EU prospering while we go down the pan. It is a two way arrangement which will have far reaching consequences for both the EU and the UK unless sensible settlements are reached.

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

I think sometimes you underestimate your own country Josh. Have to remember we are the world's 5th largest economy. It is not simply a case of us relying on the EU, and any obstacles put up in the event of a no deal Brexit affecting just the UK. Our economy dwarfs that of many of the EU countries, and they need to trade with us with as few restrictions as possible. Just take a look at the French and German companies prevalent in this country right now. They want as smooth a transition as possible. We are all aware of German jobs in the car industry being reliant on smooth trade with the UK. There are plenty of others. One of the main suppliers of energy in this country is French owned, and EDF were my gas supplier for 18 years up until last year. This is not all about the EU prospering while we go down the pan. It is a two way arrangement which will have far reaching consequences for both the EU and the UK unless sensible settlements are reached.

Steve it’s depressing how much kids hate this country, decades of brainwashing by “Liberal thinking” teachers and lecturers has convinced them when we leave the EU we’ll scrap all health n safety regs, environmental protection and workers rights. We had plenty of leverage but Teressa May negotiating for us, the only person who’d pay full price in DFS

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

I think sometimes you underestimate your own country Josh. Have to remember we are the world's 5th largest economy. It is not simply a case of us relying on the EU, and any obstacles put up in the event of a no deal Brexit affecting just the UK. Our economy dwarfs that of many of the EU countries, and they need to trade with us with as few restrictions as possible. Just take a look at the French and German companies prevalent in this country right now. They want as smooth a transition as possible. We are all aware of German jobs in the car industry being reliant on smooth trade with the UK. There are plenty of others. One of the main suppliers of energy in this country is French owned, and EDF were my gas supplier for 18 years up until last year. This is not all about the EU prospering while we go down the pan. It is a two way arrangement which will have far reaching consequences for both the EU and the UK unless sensible settlements are reached.

Steve it’s depressing how much kids hate this country, decades of brainwashing by “Liberal thinking” teachers and lecturers has convinced them when we leave the EU we’ll scrap all health n safety regs, environmental protection and workers rights. We had plenty of leverage but Teressa May negotiating for us, the only person who’d pay full price in DFS

I agree Jock. The bottom line is that we will not leave. The EU will stipulate various conditions that will not have a chance of being accepted by Parliament, and they will make it all but impossible for us to leave. As I have said plenty of times before, they need our cash and easy access to our markets. With less well off countries likely to jump on board in the future, the EU will need a shedload of extra cash. We will have to make extra contributions, but there will be less in the pot to give back to us in the way of grants. We will have even less of our own money to spend wherever Brussels tells us to spend it. Not rocket science really. Simple economics that you won't hear the BBC repeating, just in case any of their future requests for grants are turned down.

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

I think sometimes you underestimate your own country Josh. Have to remember we are the world's 5th largest economy. It is not simply a case of us relying on the EU, and any obstacles put up in the event of a no deal Brexit affecting just the UK. Our economy dwarfs that of many of the EU countries, and they need to trade with us with as few restrictions as possible. Just take a look at the French and German companies prevalent in this country right now. They want as smooth a transition as possible. We are all aware of German jobs in the car industry being reliant on smooth trade with the UK. There are plenty of others. One of the main suppliers of energy in this country is French owned, and EDF were my gas supplier for 18 years up until last year. This is not all about the EU prospering while we go down the pan. It is a two way arrangement which will have far reaching consequences for both the EU and the UK unless sensible settlements are reached.

Steve it’s depressing how much kids hate this country, decades of brainwashing by “Liberal thinking” teachers and lecturers has convinced them when we leave the EU we’ll scrap all health n safety regs, environmental protection and workers rights. We had plenty of leverage but Teressa May negotiating for us, the only person who’d pay full price in DFS

I'll respond to both of you here just to speed things up and I'll answer by asking some questions for you to ponder.
1) Who has the larger economy: Britain or the EU?
2) Do you think that being part of the second largest economy in the world (spoiler for question 1 there) and the largest trading bloc has any impact on our size of economy? What would leaving it with no agreements do to the size?
3) Commonwealth countries economies growing 3x as fast as the eurozone means nothing without figures but would you rather a trade deal with France or Brunei? Germany or Saint Lucia? Which do you think is better?
4) Do you think it's depressing that people can see the benefits of being part of the world largest trading bloc and that you interpret that as them hating the country because of decades of reading the daily mail or the sun?
5) To actually go back to the question originally asked: Do you think Britain will be successful after brexit even when the (unelected) leader of the brexit party doubts it?

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

I think sometimes you underestimate your own country Josh. Have to remember we are the world's 5th largest economy. It is not simply a case of us relying on the EU, and any obstacles put up in the event of a no deal Brexit affecting just the UK. Our economy dwarfs that of many of the EU countries, and they need to trade with us with as few restrictions as possible. Just take a look at the French and German companies prevalent in this country right now. They want as smooth a transition as possible. We are all aware of German jobs in the car industry being reliant on smooth trade with the UK. There are plenty of others. One of the main suppliers of energy in this country is French owned, and EDF were my gas supplier for 18 years up until last year. This is not all about the EU prospering while we go down the pan. It is a two way arrangement which will have far reaching consequences for both the EU and the UK unless sensible settlements are reached.

Steve it’s depressing how much kids hate this country, decades of brainwashing by “Liberal thinking” teachers and lecturers has convinced them when we leave the EU we’ll scrap all health n safety regs, environmental protection and workers rights. We had plenty of leverage but Teressa May negotiating for us, the only person who’d pay full price in DFS

I'll respond to both of you here just to speed things up and I'll answer by asking some questions for you to ponder.
1) Who has the larger economy: Britain or the EU?
2) Do you think that being part of the second largest economy in the world (spoiler for question 1 there) and the largest trading bloc has any impact on our size of economy? What would leaving it with no agreements do to the size?
3) Commonwealth countries economies growing 3x as fast as the eurozone means nothing without figures but would you rather a trade deal with France or Brunei? Germany or Saint Lucia? Which do you think is better?
4) Do you think it's depressing that people can see the benefits of being part of the world largest trading bloc and that you interpret that as them hating the country because of decades of reading the daily mail or the sun?
5) To actually go back to the question originally asked: Do you think Britain will be successful after brexit even when the (unelected) leader of the brexit party doubts it?

I’d rather a deal with Canada and Australia than any EU country
I interpret the self loathing from the reasons I posted
I fully expect a few tough years but I’m prepared to take a hit for future generations
Why do you think anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a Sun or DM reader
DM editor George Grieg is pro Remain/soft Brexit by the way.

You said it Josh- a trading block is what we joined, and if it had remained that no-one would want to leave.

My nephew(pro Corbyn etc) said to me this week that his generation had been brought up in a bubble. I couldn’t work out if this was a small green shoot of awareness, or somebody had told him.

At present he’s still in the wuss zone..

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

I think sometimes you underestimate your own country Josh. Have to remember we are the world's 5th largest economy. It is not simply a case of us relying on the EU, and any obstacles put up in the event of a no deal Brexit affecting just the UK. Our economy dwarfs that of many of the EU countries, and they need to trade with us with as few restrictions as possible. Just take a look at the French and German companies prevalent in this country right now. They want as smooth a transition as possible. We are all aware of German jobs in the car industry being reliant on smooth trade with the UK. There are plenty of others. One of the main suppliers of energy in this country is French owned, and EDF were my gas supplier for 18 years up until last year. This is not all about the EU prospering while we go down the pan. It is a two way arrangement which will have far reaching consequences for both the EU and the UK unless sensible settlements are reached.

Steve it’s depressing how much kids hate this country, decades of brainwashing by “Liberal thinking” teachers and lecturers has convinced them when we leave the EU we’ll scrap all health n safety regs, environmental protection and workers rights. We had plenty of leverage but Teressa May negotiating for us, the only person who’d pay full price in DFS

I'll respond to both of you here just to speed things up and I'll answer by asking some questions for you to ponder.
1) Who has the larger economy: Britain or the EU?
2) Do you think that being part of the second largest economy in the world (spoiler for question 1 there) and the largest trading bloc has any impact on our size of economy? What would leaving it with no agreements do to the size?
3) Commonwealth countries economies growing 3x as fast as the eurozone means nothing without figures but would you rather a trade deal with France or Brunei? Germany or Saint Lucia? Which do you think is better?
4) Do you think it's depressing that people can see the benefits of being part of the world largest trading bloc and that you interpret that as them hating the country because of decades of reading the daily mail or the sun?
5) To actually go back to the question originally asked: Do you think Britain will be successful after brexit even when the (unelected) leader of the brexit party doubts it?

I’d rather a deal with Canada and Australia than any EU country
I interpret the self loathing from the reasons I posted
I fully expect a few tough years but I’m prepared to take a hit for future generations
Why do you think anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a Sun or DM reader
DM editor George Grieg is pro Remain/soft Brexit by the way.

You may prefer Canada and Australia but with them being on the other side of the world it won't be more beneficial for us to rely on them rather than a country we're next door to
A big problem is that once you go past Australia, Canada and to an extent New Zealand and south Africa then you are left with very little in terms of size and substancein the commonwealth.
How many years do you expect to take a hit for and what do you think that entails?

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

Your view is usually backed up with the most extreme pessimistic study you can find on brexit. You are an extremist josh. These anti-brexit forecasts have been so wildly wrong in the past i believe it goes beyond remain error, some might say we are being lied to.
Where was your evidence linking those billionaires to Boris? You never did reply...

A fairly serious thought just popped into my head which I would like to put to those on the remain side of this discussion.

If everything that we have seen listed about what will happen is true. If our economy is set to crumble and our supply lines become crippled leaving us without food, water and medicine etc whilst the EU will be fine to stay calm and carry on as per usual. Wouldn't it be in their interests to just let us go and fail without them?

Wouldn't our spectacular failure, having had the audacity, arrogance and sheer stupidity to think we could go our stand on our own two feet be exactly what is needed to quell the rise of populist governments across Europe?

Wouldn't it work in their best interests long-term for them to let us go without a deal, given that we are going to be so much worse off than they are and we could act as the swinging pirates corpse at the exit to deter any other nation foolish enough to think they could leave without doing a 'UK' and committing their future generations to terrible, terrible suffering - all in the name of such fanciful romantic notions of sovereignty and democracy?

If our leaving is so clearly destined for the doom and destruction of Britain then the EU should be welcoming our departure on the 31st October as it is in their interests.

So why is Sassoli meeting with Bercow to plot to avoid no-deal Brexit? Why is Verhofstadt talking of bypassing Boris and extending Article 50?

Surely they are not acting in their own best interests unless our leaving is perhaps not going to be as catastrophic for us as is being made out and we might make a success of it, leaving the door open for others to follow?

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

Your view is usually backed up with the most extreme pessimistic study you can find on brexit. You are an extremist josh. These anti-brexit forecasts have been so wildly wrong in the past i believe it goes beyond remain error, some might say we are being lied to.
Where was your evidence linking those billionaires to Boris? You never did reply...

He never answers questions he simply puts up some link to something hes googled instead of using his own mind to reply to anyones point of view! He then asks questions without answering yours....

A fairly serious thought just popped into my head which I would like to put to those on the remain side of this discussion.

If everything that we have seen listed about what will happen is true. If our economy is set to crumble and our supply lines become crippled leaving us without food, water and medicine etc whilst the EU will be fine to stay calm and carry on as per usual. Wouldn't it be in their interests to just let us go and fail without them?

Wouldn't our spectacular failure, having had the audacity, arrogance and sheer stupidity to think we could go our stand on our own two feet be exactly what is needed to quell the rise of populist governments across Europe?

Wouldn't it work in their best interests long-term for them to let us go without a deal, given that we are going to be so much worse off than they are and we could act as the swinging pirates corpse at the exit to deter any other nation foolish enough to think they could leave without doing a 'UK' and committing their future generations to terrible, terrible suffering - all in the name of such fanciful romantic notions of sovereignty and democracy?

If our leaving is so clearly destined for the doom and destruction of Britain then the EU should be welcoming our departure on the 31st October as it is in their interests.

So why is Sassoli meeting with Bercow to plot to avoid no-deal Brexit? Why is Verhofstadt talking of bypassing Boris and extending Article 50?

Surely they are not acting in their own best interests unless our leaving is perhaps not going to be as catastrophic for us as is being made out and we might make a success of it, leaving the door open for others to follow?

That is their concern as they know we will be ok after a period of ups and downs and when others see we manage quite well without EU others will follow unquestionably! Why else are remain people like bercow so keen to stop Brexit at any cost?

Bercow at it again had meeting with his equivalent in EU discussed extending Brexit and having 2nd referendum! The EU speaker admitted he's bypassing uk government and talking directly with bercow about Brexit!! Shows the lengths and underhand ways remain people will go to stop Brexit..

Not sure how many of us voted for Bercow to conduct negotiations on our behalf. Fairly certain the answer is nobody, but that's British democracy for you. So talks between Boris and his Irish counterpart have made a bit of progress. So what, Brussels will decide what we do, just as they decided the impossible terms for our departure that May brought back a while ago. Nothing will change, the terms will be unacceptable and we will continue to be run by Brussels while handing over more power year on year.

Impossible terms? We suggested a method, we agreed said method with the EU, parliament (including johnson, jrm etc) rejected it. You can't blame the EU for that now can you. They have said no hard border since before the referendum and yet our last brexit proposal a few days ago was so bad that eu diplomats had to ask us whether there was a mistake and whether we submitted the right thing.
A no deal brexit will be the sole responsibility of the prime minister and the conservative party. Not the EU, not 'remoaners', not people who don't believe enough.

Josh, the people voted to leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. Mays Deal didn’t honour any of that.
Tell me something, have you so little faith in this country, you think we could not prosper out with the failing protectionist block the EUs become?

(This is all my opinion if we had a no deal brexit) Immediately we'd be a lot worse off seen as we now will have no trade agreements with all our closest countries and our largest trading partner. It'd then be decades of negotiation at a worse position to even get to any kind of similar (It'll never be better) trade deal. The US will be by far the bigger beneficiary of any trade deal with them. Doubt we'd have a trade deal with China ATM. Africa, Asia, South America, Australasia will A) not have better deals than what we have with them currently B) Not make up the deficit that our lost EU trade will bring C) be too far away to benefit our main industries.
Even big brexiteers like Jacob Rees mogg says we won't see any benefits for 50 years and comrade farage now says he never said brexit would be a success or that we'd be better off.

Rubbish. Of all the positions on here. Your remain mania is by far the most extreme.

That's my view, you say it's rubbish so let's hear your opinion (obviously you'll now have to include evidence that my view is false and yours is accurate).

Your view is usually backed up with the most extreme pessimistic study you can find on brexit. You are an extremist josh. These anti-brexit forecasts have been so wildly wrong in the past i believe it goes beyond remain error, some might say we are being lied to.
Where was your evidence linking those billionaires to Boris? You never did reply...

He never answers questions he simply puts up some link to something hes googled instead of using his own mind to reply to anyones point of view! He then asks questions without answering yours....

There's a difference between me actually backing up my points and what many on here do by just spouting rubbish with no proof whatsoever. I did post my view earlier and it was dismissed as 'rubbish' and no actual counter view has yet to be posted. Maybe things would be sorted a lot easier on here if people decided to check facts and figures before posting lies.
And I did reply to your other comment, his own sister bloody said it.