A different perspective Covid19

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A different perspective Covid19

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun May 10, 2020 8:45 pm

Let me start by saying would I go to any demonstrations on this lockdown ? No I wouldn’t. Now with that out the way I want to say I don’t believe in what we are being told by the media or our government.
We are told protect our NHS, And our Hospitals are at bursting point and that our NHS staff are struggling to cope. We are told How many hundreds are dying every day. The first discontent I heard was when NHS staff was being warned not to speak out otherwise they would lose their jobs. Now the first event that happened that made me sit up was this

My sisters good friend and Neighbour is a sister in a Welsh hospital. But I won’t mention which one because of the threats she has had off her employees. A 65 year old man was admitted to her ward and whilst he was in there care he had a heart attack and my sisters friend called the crash team.
When they arrived they saw the mans age and turned back around and left and the unfortunate man died. This nurse with her experience was sure this man could of been saved but he was left to die and since then she has suffered guilt shock and disbelief and she was very vocal after. But she was told unless she buttoned it she would lose her job.
Now that was murder in my book.

Case number two which made me realise all these stories I was hearing was true, some NHS staff saying they are busy and overrun and others saying the hospitals are empty.
Now this one involved my own dad who has suffered from serious bad health for some years now but he was suffering confusion so bad my mum had no option but to call an ambulance as them both being in their 80s she couldn’t cope.
On a evening the paramedics arrived and told my Mum that the hospital was overrun and A&E was full so much so they put up a massive tent in the car park of which this was also full. They said it wasn’t safe for my Dad to go in and they could put in place that my dad gets treated at home.
But the next morning my mum had to call an ambulance again as he had fallen and my mum couldn’t get him back up. They arrived and said it was best if they take him in. My mum said but isn’t the hospital busy etc etc ? But they said it’s not as bad as they are saying in fact the hospital is really quiet. They took my Dad in done a test for Covid and he was taken straight to ICU.
Later I found out that tent was in the car park but it has never been used.

Then the videos came out on Tik Tok of NHS staff dancing and laughing on empty wards then a whole entire A&E team outside the building clapping on a Thursday night. But hang on what about those patients inside that we are told is at bursting point ?
Then you have the police clapping on London Bridge several weeks running no social distancing.

Then we have the issue of patients treatments being stopped for cancer for heart disease then reports when many were dying Covid has been put on their death certificates to the shock of their families.

Peoples mental heath are being ignored being imprisoned in there own houses or even worse for those who live in flats. Some have lost their jobs and others have lost there business. Suicides has gone up.

But then you have the media the news channels who have deliberately put the fear of god into the population. Remember they described in detail the agony of someone dying from Covid. Story after story designed to put fear into the population.
Now you have people living in such fear it is now a mental illness. I can imagine some of these in the future that if someone gets to close to them they will freak.
People are so frightened they won’t even interact with there own families, grandchildren etc. Now my view if this was a real pandemic the government and media would be calming the public not frightening to the point they are begging to be put under martial law.
And we now live in a state the the police are saying for you to spy on your own neighbours and report them, the last time this happened in the west it was the Nazi Party doing it.

Now this virus is real and we live amongst viruses every day some very harmful others not so, so we then have Covid and it’s is very real and can be dangerous to some people I know this more than any with my wife having MS and yes she is one of those that is terrified.
But being locked up we are harming our own immune system and if another wave hits we will be hit harder as people’s immune system is compromised by not interacting with others or suffering from depression. You also have no dentists which many people in such pain they are taking Iburofen by the bucket load of which is bad for your liver and kidneys.

So we see we are being told do as we say not as we do, even the scientist who set out these restrictions broke them himself.

And lastly if we as a nation was as concerned about Heart disease and diabetes as we are about Covid we would be a much healthier nation. And those two kill a hundred times more than Covid ever has.
Stay safe and look after each other and please open your mind to what is happening rather than listen to the MSM
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A different perspective Covid19

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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby davids » Sun May 10, 2020 9:00 pm

Mate I'm not sure you'll get much support for what you say but I have to say I think you make many extremely valid points in your post and admire your bravery in posting it.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby bluebirdoct1962 » Sun May 10, 2020 9:08 pm

davids wrote:Mate I'm not sure you'll get much support for what you say but I have to say I think you make many extremely valid points in your post and admire your bravery in posting it.

Yup I agree with what you say. I know there’s been a lot of people a bit hacked off about the dancing etc.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bigmarkw » Sun May 10, 2020 9:47 pm

So have you reported this murder?
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby goats » Sun May 10, 2020 9:49 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:Let me start by saying would I go to any demonstrations on this lockdown ? No I wouldn’t. Now with that out the way I want to say I don’t believe in what we are being told by the media or our government.
We are told protect our NHS, And our Hospitals are at bursting point and that our NHS staff are struggling to cope. We are told How many hundreds are dying every day. The first discontent I heard was when NHS staff was being warned not to speak out otherwise they would lose their jobs. Now the first event that happened that made me sit up was this

My sisters good friend and Neighbour is a sister in a Welsh hospital. But I won’t mention which one because of the threats she has had off her employees. A 65 year old man was admitted to her ward and whilst he was in there care he had a heart attack and my sisters friend called the crash team.
When they arrived they saw the mans age and turned back around and left and the unfortunate man died. This nurse with her experience was sure this man could of been saved but he was left to die and since then she has suffered guilt shock and disbelief and she was very vocal after. But she was told unless she buttoned it she would lose her job.
Now that was murder in my book.

Case number two which made me realise all these stories I was hearing was true, some NHS staff saying they are busy and overrun and others saying the hospitals are empty.
Now this one involved my own dad who has suffered from serious bad health for some years now but he was suffering confusion so bad my mum had no option but to call an ambulance as them both being in their 80s she couldn’t cope.
On a evening the paramedics arrived and told my Mum that the hospital was overrun and A&E was full so much so they put up a massive tent in the car park of which this was also full. They said it wasn’t safe for my Dad to go in and they could put in place that my dad gets treated at home.
But the next morning my mum had to call an ambulance again as he had fallen and my mum couldn’t get him back up. They arrived and said it was best if they take him in. My mum said but isn’t the hospital busy etc etc ? But they said it’s not as bad as they are saying in fact the hospital is really quiet. They took my Dad in done a test for Covid and he was taken straight to ICU.
Later I found out that tent was in the car park but it has never been used.

Then the videos came out on Tik Tok of NHS staff dancing and laughing on empty wards then a whole entire A&E team outside the building clapping on a Thursday night. But hang on what about those patients inside that we are told is at bursting point ?
Then you have the police clapping on London Bridge several weeks running no social distancing.

Then we have the issue of patients treatments being stopped for cancer for heart disease then reports when many were dying Covid has been put on their death certificates to the shock of their families.

Peoples mental heath are being ignored being imprisoned in there own houses or even worse for those who live in flats. Some have lost their jobs and others have lost there business. Suicides has gone up.

But then you have the media the news channels who have deliberately put the fear of god into the population. Remember they described in detail the agony of someone dying from Covid. Story after story designed to put fear into the population.
Now you have people living in such fear it is now a mental illness. I can imagine some of these in the future that if someone gets to close to them they will freak.
People are so frightened they won’t even interact with there own families, grandchildren etc. Now my view if this was a real pandemic the government and media would be calming the public not frightening to the point they are begging to be put under martial law.
And we now live in a state the the police are saying for you to spy on your own neighbours and report them, the last time this happened in the west it was the Nazi Party doing it.

Now this virus is real and we live amongst viruses every day some very harmful others not so, so we then have Covid and it’s is very real and can be dangerous to some people I know this more than any with my wife having MS and yes she is one of those that is terrified.
But being locked up we are harming our own immune system and if another wave hits we will be hit harder as people’s immune system is compromised by not interacting with others or suffering from depression. You also have no dentists which many people in such pain they are taking Iburofen by the bucket load of which is bad for your liver and kidneys.

So we see we are being told do as we say not as we do, even the scientist who set out these restrictions broke them himself.

And lastly if we as a nation was as concerned about Heart disease and diabetes as we are about Covid we would be a much healthier nation. And those two kill a hundred times more than Covid ever has.
Stay safe and look after each other and please open your mind to what is happening rather than listen to the MSM



Nukes, I live opposite the Heath, my closest neighbours are about 5 doctors and a few nurses. It’s not busy over there, about 40% capacity. ICU less and a and e completely empty.....we need to get the everyday ops going again else many more will suffer with more deaths than the 200 so far in Cardiff county....
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby EastleighBlue » Sun May 10, 2020 10:04 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:Let me start by saying would I go to any demonstrations on this lockdown ? No I wouldn’t. Now with that out the way I want to say I don’t believe in what we are being told by the media or our government.
We are told protect our NHS, And our Hospitals are at bursting point and that our NHS staff are struggling to cope. We are told How many hundreds are dying every day. The first discontent I heard was when NHS staff was being warned not to speak out otherwise they would lose their jobs. Now the first event that happened that made me sit up was this

My sisters good friend and Neighbour is a sister in a Welsh hospital. But I won’t mention which one because of the threats she has had off her employees. A 65 year old man was admitted to her ward and whilst he was in there care he had a heart attack and my sisters friend called the crash team.
When they arrived they saw the mans age and turned back around and left and the unfortunate man died. This nurse with her experience was sure this man could of been saved but he was left to die and since then she has suffered guilt shock and disbelief and she was very vocal after. But she was told unless she buttoned it she would lose her job.
Now that was murder in my book.

Case number two which made me realise all these stories I was hearing was true, some NHS staff saying they are busy and overrun and others saying the hospitals are empty.
Now this one involved my own dad who has suffered from serious bad health for some years now but he was suffering confusion so bad my mum had no option but to call an ambulance as them both being in their 80s she couldn’t cope.
On a evening the paramedics arrived and told my Mum that the hospital was overrun and A&E was full so much so they put up a massive tent in the car park of which this was also full. They said it wasn’t safe for my Dad to go in and they could put in place that my dad gets treated at home.
But the next morning my mum had to call an ambulance again as he had fallen and my mum couldn’t get him back up. They arrived and said it was best if they take him in. My mum said but isn’t the hospital busy etc etc ? But they said it’s not as bad as they are saying in fact the hospital is really quiet. They took my Dad in done a test for Covid and he was taken straight to ICU.
Later I found out that tent was in the car park but it has never been used.

Then the videos came out on Tik Tok of NHS staff dancing and laughing on empty wards then a whole entire A&E team outside the building clapping on a Thursday night. But hang on what about those patients inside that we are told is at bursting point ?
Then you have the police clapping on London Bridge several weeks running no social distancing.

Then we have the issue of patients treatments being stopped for cancer for heart disease then reports when many were dying Covid has been put on their death certificates to the shock of their families.

Peoples mental heath are being ignored being imprisoned in there own houses or even worse for those who live in flats. Some have lost their jobs and others have lost there business. Suicides has gone up.

But then you have the media the news channels who have deliberately put the fear of god into the population. Remember they described in detail the agony of someone dying from Covid. Story after story designed to put fear into the population.
Now you have people living in such fear it is now a mental illness. I can imagine some of these in the future that if someone gets to close to them they will freak.
People are so frightened they won’t even interact with there own families, grandchildren etc. Now my view if this was a real pandemic the government and media would be calming the public not frightening to the point they are begging to be put under martial law.
And we now live in a state the the police are saying for you to spy on your own neighbours and report them, the last time this happened in the west it was the Nazi Party doing it.

Now this virus is real and we live amongst viruses every day some very harmful others not so, so we then have Covid and it’s is very real and can be dangerous to some people I know this more than any with my wife having MS and yes she is one of those that is terrified.
But being locked up we are harming our own immune system and if another wave hits we will be hit harder as people’s immune system is compromised by not interacting with others or suffering from depression. You also have no dentists which many people in such pain they are taking Iburofen by the bucket load of which is bad for your liver and kidneys.

So we see we are being told do as we say not as we do, even the scientist who set out these restrictions broke them himself.

And lastly if we as a nation was as concerned about Heart disease and diabetes as we are about Covid we would be a much healthier nation. And those two kill a hundred times more than Covid ever has.
Stay safe and look after each other and please open your mind to what is happening rather than listen to the MSM


I totally support your view that the nation is utterly gripped and consumed by fear. Its dangerous and damaging. We have lost sight of some of the realities of the disease. Less than 500 deaths have been caused to those under 45 in this country. The overwhelming majority of people survive even with a bad illness.
People calling for never ending lockdown need a to be shaken to their senses. This virus is here to stay until we have a vaccine and we need to accept the risks and get on with life as carefully as we can. If we don't our economy will be permanently destroyed and vastly more lives will be lost to non-covid conditions. Key workers have worked through the risks for the last 8 weeks. Now its time for everyone else who is healthy and fit to step up and go to work.Your country needs you to.
Last edited by EastleighBlue on Sun May 10, 2020 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby pembroke allan » Sun May 10, 2020 10:05 pm

I know two people working in hospitals 1 in uhw 1 local local one other week had 2 patients in itu... uhw upto last week didn't require for them to go to itu on secondment as planned.. tent in car park here is for A&E triage wonder if same at other hospitals? If things are as bad as supposed to be why gave they stood down London nightingale hosp and others around country have either few or no patients! As for cancer treatment it is still going on in wales as i take patients for treatment at velindre and other cancer centres in wales, its cancer operations that have been curtailed..the truth is people have been scared silly by constant stories of how bad things are and how the nhs is overrun when the reality is they are busy but not to extent bring circulated by the media with couple exceptions
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bigmarkw » Sun May 10, 2020 10:30 pm

Is no one else concerned that nhs who have been appalled by most and seen as hero’s have actually murdered patients??

Or am I overreacting here and it’s clearly a load of rubbish being talked?
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bluehants » Sun May 10, 2020 10:59 pm

I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bigmarkw » Sun May 10, 2020 11:15 pm

Bluehants wrote:I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?


One of the most sensible posts I’ve read.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby skidemin » Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 pm

Bluehants wrote:I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?



really ? if its not been said a hundred times on news articles in all the MSM its not been said once.. A and E is quiet everywhere.. and its becoming { should have been from day 1 } a concern.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bigmarkw » Sun May 10, 2020 11:21 pm

skidemin wrote:
Bluehants wrote:I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?



really ? if its not been said a hundred times on news articles in all the MSM its not been said once.. A and E is quiet everywhere.. and its becoming { should have been from day 1 } a concern.



For me it partly shows how many people used up vital resources unnecessarily.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby bluesince62 » Mon May 11, 2020 12:36 am

Bigmarkw wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Bluehants wrote:I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?



really ? if its not been said a hundred times on news articles in all the MSM its not been said once.. A and E is quiet everywhere.. and its becoming { should have been from day 1 } a concern.



For me it partly shows how many people used up vital resources unnecessarily.




They were asking people in Wales last week,if they felt unwell,would they attend hospital? The vast majority said they would not!! As they were too worried about covid!! Doctors have made posts asking people not to be frightened A&E is open as usual,and it's safe to attend,even my sisters doctor has made an appeal to patients to not be scared to come in,if you are not feeling well,I'm with the op on this .I also know a person who is close to me,and works in ICU says they are not overrun, and haven't been,and also says A&E is nowhere near as busy as usual,and quoted"people are terrified of coming in,and it's a worry,as people who could need life saving intervention are dying at home,rather than seek medical help! I see what the op sees,there is a method,somewhere amongst the madness.I don't watch or read MSM, as they are complicit in my eyes,in scaring the nation to bits,lining them up like sheep,waiting for "the vaccine" people should think for themselves,instead of believing p the shit we are being fed. :old: :bluebird:
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bigmarkw » Mon May 11, 2020 1:03 am

bluesince62 wrote:
Bigmarkw wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Bluehants wrote:I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?



really ? if its not been said a hundred times on news articles in all the MSM its not been said once.. A and E is quiet everywhere.. and its becoming { should have been from day 1 } a concern.



For me it partly shows how many people used up vital resources unnecessarily.




They were asking people in Wales last week,if they felt unwell,would they attend hospital? The vast majority said they would not!! As they were too worried about covid!! Doctors have made posts asking people not to be frightened A&E is open as usual,and it's safe to attend,even my sisters doctor has made an appeal to patients to not be scared to come in,if you are not feeling well,I'm with the op on this .I also know a person who is close to me,and works in ICU says they are not overrun, and haven't been,and also says A&E is nowhere near as busy as usual,and quoted"people are terrified of coming in,and it's a worry,as people who could need life saving intervention are dying at home,rather than seek medical help! I see what the op sees,there is a method,somewhere amongst the madness.I don't watch or read MSM, as they are complicit in my eyes,in scaring the nation to bits,lining them up like sheep,waiting for "the vaccine" people should think for themselves,instead of believing p the shit we are being fed. :old: :bluebird:


Could not be a case that as the OP stated the staff letting people die unnecessarily that they two scared to go to hospital.

I’m literally bemused that with everything written in the post no ones battered an eye lid that there was In his word a “murder”. Committed by the doctors and nurses for what appears to be no reason.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby skidemin » Mon May 11, 2020 2:08 am

Bigmarkw wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:
Bigmarkw wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Bluehants wrote:I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?



really ? if its not been said a hundred times on news articles in all the MSM its not been said once.. A and E is quiet everywhere.. and its becoming { should have been from day 1 } a concern.



For me it partly shows how many people used up vital resources unnecessarily.




They were asking people in Wales last week,if they felt unwell,would they attend hospital? The vast majority said they would not!! As they were too worried about covid!! Doctors have made posts asking people not to be frightened A&E is open as usual,and it's safe to attend,even my sisters doctor has made an appeal to patients to not be scared to come in,if you are not feeling well,I'm with the op on this .I also know a person who is close to me,and works in ICU says they are not overrun, and haven't been,and also says A&E is nowhere near as busy as usual,and quoted"people are terrified of coming in,and it's a worry,as people who could need life saving intervention are dying at home,rather than seek medical help! I see what the op sees,there is a method,somewhere amongst the madness.I don't watch or read MSM, as they are complicit in my eyes,in scaring the nation to bits,lining them up like sheep,waiting for "the vaccine" people should think for themselves,instead of believing p the shit we are being fed. :old: :bluebird:


Could not be a case that as the OP stated the staff letting people die unnecessarily that they two scared to go to hospital.

I’m literally bemused that with everything written in the post no ones battered an eye lid that there was In his word a “murder”. Committed by the doctors and nurses for what appears to be no reason.



well its not murder.. but my wife has had 2 relatives need an ambulance { 4hours and ten minutes wait...and an incredible 9 hours and 20 minutes wait } and both a hospital admission over the last 6 weeks. on both occasions it was very clear there is a massive over emphasis on covid.. sorry but our NHS has a duty of care for all of us not covid is top of the range care and other things are just an inconvenience..
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bigmarkw » Mon May 11, 2020 2:15 am

The worrying thing I have like many in her have loved ones who may need urgent care at said hospital, so NB is saying they going to let my relative die for no real reason? I think this needs bring up with police and politicians. I imagine it won’t be to hard to track down these medics. NB would be able to point them in the right direction.

What do you think?
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby skidemin » Mon May 11, 2020 2:35 am

Bigmarkw wrote:The worrying thing I have like many in her have loved ones who may need urgent care at said hospital, so NB is saying they going to let my relative die for no real reason? I think this needs bring up with police and politicians. I imagine it won’t be to hard to track down these medics. NB would be able to point them in the right direction.

What do you think?



well it wasn't murder ...but had something happened { death } after a 9hr20min ambulance wait { apparently they kept being diverted to cv19 cases , none of who ended up in hospital I was told } id be looking at legal advice... I think people have died and will die who 3 months ago would be saved to go on and live active lives ,we all know people like that and its them being sacrificed.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Nuclearblue » Mon May 11, 2020 9:55 am

Many mentioned about the murder reference but at the beginning it was stated that they would have to choose who lived and who died and the oldest was deemed less likely to survive. So if you read between the lines like most of you can that is clearly meant towards those that bought out this order. Older patients have been left to die and do you think that is right ?
If it got to the stage where hospitals were overflowing then it could come to that and my heart would really feel for the medics that had to make that choice, but do you believe they were in that position this time ?
Also there was reports in the papers (so unconfirmed) that medics were trying to force parents to sign DNRs for their children if they had Covid19.
Also one thing I have heard and I’m trying to find out if it’s true Doctors coroners etc get paid £75 to sign a death certificate but if it they sign it as Covid as cause of death it’s £125.
Also there is no test needed for proof of Covid if they believe it to be, then that is good enough. So if the last two is right is our death toll accurate ?
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Igovernor » Mon May 11, 2020 10:04 am

Bigmarkw wrote:
Bluehants wrote:I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? I can see a few examples of what look like contradictions, but that doesn’t mean that they are. The example of the ambulance crews - one said it was too busy and the other that it wasn’t? But these were different times of the day and different circumstances, that maybe different paramedics thought warranted different decisions.

If you’re saying that he Govt and media are trying to create a state of Marshall law - then why and to what end?

Maybe the simple answer is that this is a new disease that Govts. are trying to figure out - therefore easier to carry out the current actions rather than create more risk by letting people carry on as normal?


One of the most sensible posts I’ve read.


Same here :thumbup:
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Bluebina » Mon May 11, 2020 10:06 am

Nuclearblue wrote:Many mentioned about the murder reference but at the beginning it was stated that they would have to choose who lived and who died and the oldest was deemed less likely to survive. So if you read between the lines like most of you can that is clearly meant towards those that bought out this order. Older patients have been left to die and do you think that is right ?
If it got to the stage where hospitals were overflowing then it could come to that and my heart would really feel for the medics that had to make that choice, but do you believe they were in that position this time ?
Also there was reports in the papers (so unconfirmed) that medics were trying to force parents to sign DNRs for their children if they had Covid19.
Also one thing I have heard and I’m trying to find out if it’s true Doctors coroners etc get paid £75 to sign a death certificate but if it they sign it as Covid as cause of death it’s £125.
Also there is no test needed for proof of Covid if they believe it to be, then that is good enough. So if the last two is right is our death toll accurate ?



Doctors have always had to decide who to save and who not too and always will, this may just have been a case of the crash team having a greater knowledge of the survival chances than a nurse?
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby A Quiet Monkfish » Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 am

Nuclearblue wrote:Many mentioned about the murder reference but at the beginning it was stated that they would have to choose who lived and who died and the oldest was deemed less likely to survive. So if you read between the lines like most of you can that is clearly meant towards those that bought out this order. Older patients have been left to die and do you think that is right ?
If it got to the stage where hospitals were overflowing then it could come to that and my heart would really feel for the medics that had to make that choice, but do you believe they were in that position this time ?
Also there was reports in the papers (so unconfirmed) that medics were trying to force parents to sign DNRs for their children if they had Covid19.
Also one thing I have heard and I’m trying to find out if it’s true Doctors coroners etc get paid £75 to sign a death certificate but if it they sign it as Covid as cause of death it’s £125.
Also there is no test needed for proof of Covid if they believe it to be, then that is good enough. So if the last two is right is our death toll accurate ?


I'm not sure any Country's death toll is accurate -they're all doing it differently. Have friends in West Wales - Glangwili hospital has a huge tent for CV19 - unused. etc, etc. Anyway, thank God for a thread with a touch of maturity in it instead of the hysterical rants of the many. A couple of days ago walking in LLanfaff Fields with missus. Saw a friend. Stood about 20ft [6m] apart chatting. Up drove HM Coastguard opened the window and through a megaphone shouted "stay apart, you're breaking the law, single household only. " I won't go on to say what happened next, but it's become a mad, mad, world..
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon May 11, 2020 2:17 pm

Bigmarkw wrote:So have you reported this murder?


Maybe using the word 'murder' was ill advised.

However, if this story was true and there was no other mitigating circumstances then the medical staff could have been calculable to severe medical malpractice leading to manslaughter.

Obviously these incidents would have to be fully investigated but at face value they seem very serious.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon May 11, 2020 2:32 pm

A Quiet Monkfish wrote:
A couple of days ago walking in LLanfaff Fields with missus. Saw a friend. Stood about 20ft [6m] apart chatting. Up drove HM Coastguard opened the window and through a megaphone shouted "stay apart, you're breaking the law, single household only. " I won't go on to say what happened next, but it's become a mad, mad, world..


You won't like this but IMO the HM Coastguard was completely right. You may have been respecting social distancing guidelines but by chatting in such a fashion it may have encouraged others to also gather and cause a hazard. The guidelines allow for outdoor exercise but not for you to stop and chat even if it is at a distance.

I can understand you might have been annoyed but these people are doing a difficult job in difficult circumstances. I had something similar when I stopped to get something out of my wallet and was asked to move along by PSO. Under normal circumstances I would have reacted but on this occasion I knew that the guidelines apply to everyone and I had no right to stop and possibly cause a hazard to others.

The new slogan is 'be alert' and that means to our own actions as well as to what others are doing.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby nubbsy » Mon May 11, 2020 2:44 pm

[quote="goats"][quote="Nuclearblue"]Let me start by saying would I go to any demonstrations on this lockdown ? No I wouldn’t. Now with that out the way I want to say I don’t believe in what we are being told by the media or our government.
We are told protect our NHS, And our Hospitals are at bursting point and that our NHS staff are struggling to cope. We are told How many hundreds are dying every day. The first discontent I heard was when NHS staff was being warned not to speak out otherwise they would lose their jobs. Now the first event that happened that made me sit up was this

My sisters good friend and Neighbour is a sister in a Welsh hospital. But I won’t mention which one because of the threats she has had off her employees. A 65 year old man was admitted to her ward and whilst he was in there care he had a heart attack and my sisters friend called the crash team.
When they arrived they saw the mans age and turned back around and left and the unfortunate man died. This nurse with her experience was sure this man could of been saved but he was left to die and since then she has suffered guilt shock and disbelief and she was very vocal after. But she was told unless she buttoned it she would lose her job.
Now that was murder in my book.

Case number two which made me realise all these stories I was hearing was true, some NHS staff saying they are busy and overrun and others saying the hospitals are empty.
Now this one involved my own dad who has suffered from serious bad health for some years now but he was suffering confusion so bad my mum had no option but to call an ambulance as them both being in their 80s she couldn’t cope.
On a evening the paramedics arrived and told my Mum that the hospital was overrun and A&E was full so much so they put up a massive tent in the car park of which this was also full. They said it wasn’t safe for my Dad to go in and they could put in place that my dad gets treated at home.
But the next morning my mum had to call an ambulance again as he had fallen and my mum couldn’t get him back up. They arrived and said it was best if they take him in. My mum said but isn’t the hospital busy etc etc ? But they said it’s not as bad as they are saying in fact the hospital is really quiet. They took my Dad in done a test for Covid and he was taken straight to ICU.
Later I found out that tent was in the car park but it has never been used.

Then the videos came out on Tik Tok of NHS staff dancing and laughing on empty wards then a whole entire A&E team outside the building clapping on a Thursday night. But hang on what about those patients inside that we are told is at bursting point ?
Then you have the police clapping on London Bridge several weeks running no social distancing.

Then we have the issue of patients treatments being stopped for cancer for heart disease then reports when many were dying Covid has been put on their death certificates to the shock of their families.

Peoples mental heath are being ignored being imprisoned in there own houses or even worse for those who live in flats. Some have lost their jobs and others have lost there business. Suicides has gone up.

But then you have the media the news channels who have deliberately put the fear of god into the population. Remember they described in detail the agony of someone dying from Covid. Story after story designed to put fear into the population.
Now you have people living in such fear it is now a mental illness. I can imagine some of these in the future that if someone gets to close to them they will freak.
People are so frightened they won’t even interact with there own families, grandchildren etc. Now my view if this was a real pandemic the government and media would be calming the public not frightening to the point they are begging to be put under martial law.
And we now live in a state the the police are saying for you to spy on your own neighbours and report them, the last time this happened in the west it was the Nazi Party doing it.

Now this virus is real and we live amongst viruses every day some very harmful others not so, so we then have Covid and it’s is very real and can be dangerous to some people I know this more than any with my wife having MS and yes she is one of those that is terrified.
But being locked up we are harming our own immune system and if another wave hits we will be hit harder as people’s immune system is compromised by not interacting with others or suffering from depression. You also have no dentists which many people in such pain they are taking Iburofen by the bucket load of which is bad for your liver and kidneys.

So we see we are being told do as we say not as we do, even the scientist who set out these restrictions broke them himself.

And lastly if we as a nation was as concerned about Heart disease and diabetes as we are about Covid we would be a much healthier nation. And those two kill a hundred times more than Covid ever has.
Stay safe and look after each other and please open your mind to what is happening rather than listen to the MSM[/quote]


Nukes, I live opposite the Heath, my closest neighbours are about 5 doctors and a few nurses. It’s not busy over there, about 40% capacity. ICU less and a and e completely empty.....we need to get the everyday ops going again else many more will suffer with more deaths than the 200 so far in Cardiff county....[/quote]


Llandough is even quieter, has been the whole time. And don't even talk about the millennium stadium. They've barely just finished building it. Empty.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby OriginalGrangeEndBlue » Mon May 11, 2020 3:06 pm

Nubbsy you are right as there is nobody in ICU at Llandough hospital and last I heard there are about 30 non urgent patients at the Millennium.
Llandough is very quiet with all wards shut except one or two for covid.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Igovernor » Mon May 11, 2020 3:14 pm

QUOTE:
"My sisters good friend and Neighbour is a sister in a Welsh hospital. But I won’t mention which one because of the threats she has had off her employees. A 65 year old man was admitted to her ward and whilst he was in there care he had a heart attack and my sisters friend called the crash team.
When they arrived they saw the mans age and turned back around and left and the unfortunate man died. This nurse with her experience was sure this man could of been saved but he was left to die and since then she has suffered guilt shock and disbelief and she was very vocal after. But she was told unless she buttoned it she would lose her job.
Now that was murder in my book" UN-QUOTE

Nukes that is very hard to believe that the crash team just turned around and walked out, number one the sister would have called a code and she would have been one of the crash team, this does not sound at all true. How do you know that the man did not have a DNR on his chart, because it is my belief that it would only that reason for the team to not try and recusitate him, unless it was obvious that the man had died, and then they would still have checked him.
I am not surmising here, but I am speaking from experience, having a medical backround. If there was any malpractice, there is no way that the Sister would have been threatened with losing her job, many years ago, maybe but not in todays climate, whistle blowers are protected. This is just an extract from the link below.

"What does the law say?
The Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 came into force on 2 July 1999. The Act protects workers that disclose information about malpractice at their workplace, or former workplace, provided certain conditions are met. The conditions concern the nature of the information disclosed and the person to whom it is disclosed. The GMC is a Prescribed Person under the Public Interest Disclosure (Prescribed Persons) Order 2014 so those who make a whistleblowing disclosure to us which is relevant to our statutory functions will receive legal protection provided they hold a reasonable belief that the information disclosed is true"


https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/document ... 107304.pdf
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Nuclearblue » Mon May 11, 2020 4:24 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Bigmarkw wrote:So have you reported this murder?


Maybe using the word 'murder' was ill advised.

However, if this story was true and there was no other mitigating circumstances then the medical staff could have been calculable to severe medical malpractice leading to manslaughter.

Obviously these incidents would have to be fully investigated but at face value they seem very serious.

Tony first of all I heard at the beginning a memo went out saying those over a certain age would have DNR put on them. So if this is right those medical staff were only following the guidelines set. So under no circumstances am I saying those on the crash team committed murder. No I’m saying what’s been happening is murder by the state and I should of explained that better. But how about the operations that has been cancelled and how many deaths has been caused due to this is anyone’s guess.
Also in that memo was Stated that they would not receive ventilators etc but they must be made as comfortable as they can. Don’t know if anyone that’s in the NHS on can clarify any more on this.
And yes the amount of NHS staff coming out and saying anonymously of coarse they are not allowed to say what has been going on is incredible, but they are allowed just to say they are very busy etc. But statistics are given by the state so who knows what the real numbers of deaths are and what the causes was and how many were denied life saving treatments ?.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Igovernor » Mon May 11, 2020 4:45 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
Bigmarkw wrote:So have you reported this murder?


Maybe using the word 'murder' was ill advised.

However, if this story was true and there was no other mitigating circumstances then the medical staff could have been calculable to severe medical malpractice leading to manslaughter.

Obviously these incidents would have to be fully investigated but at face value they seem very serious.

Tony first of all I heard at the beginning a memo went out saying those over a certain age would have DNR put on them. So if this is right those medical staff were only following the guidelines set. So under no circumstances am I saying those on the crash team committed murder. No I’m saying what’s been happening is murder by the state and I should of explained that better. But how about the operations that has been cancelled and how many deaths has been caused due to this is anyone’s guess.
Also in that memo was Stated that they would not receive ventilators etc but they must be made as comfortable as they can. Don’t know if anyone that’s in the NHS on can clarify any more on this.
And yes the amount of NHS staff coming out and saying anonymously of coarse they are not allowed to say what has been going on is incredible, but they are allowed just to say they are very busy etc. But statistics are given by the state so who knows what the real numbers of deaths are and what the causes was and how many were denied life saving treatments ?.


Nukes hospitals cannot put a DNR on any patient, they can ask a patient on admittance when filling in the admitance form, but by asking them that would not be normal medical practice. What normally happens is that the patient will say when the nurse fills in the admitance form whether they do not want to be resucitated or not! that would be a question on the form. On the part about what you said re:
Also in that memo was Stated that they would not receive ventilators etc but they must be made as comfortable as they can.
That is not correct, the policy was that it would be up to the doctor making a clinical decision as to whether putting a patient on a ventilator would make any difference to his condition, when a younger person would benefit more, sad to say, that bit is true. I don't know where this supposed memo has supposed to have come from. But I have to say that since the start of the pandemic, there has been an awful lot of information put out that has been complutely untue!
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Wayne S » Mon May 11, 2020 6:47 pm

Doctors are not paid for death certificates, let alone getting paid more for a Covid-19 death certificate.

There are fees for obtaining a cremation certificate. They require two doctors to corroborate that it is safe to cremate the body.
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Re: A different perspective Covid19

Postby Crayfish » Mon May 11, 2020 8:19 pm

Thank god for a sensible thread on the crisis it makes a refreshing change from the usual don't go out because you will kill my nan hysteria on here.
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