Owners of care homes

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Owners of care homes

Postby Forever Blue » Fri May 15, 2020 9:08 am

I have said from day one, they make fortunes and should take some responsibility
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Owners of care homes

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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby piledriver64 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:19 am

Agreed.

They owe it both their workers and residents.

Don’t get why they expect others to bail them out. If they can’t run an efficient business on the money they charge then this business model is wrong.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Igovernor » Fri May 15, 2020 9:29 am

Forever Blue wrote:I have said from day one, they make fortunes and should take some responsibility


Annis I have first hand experience of care homes, and have to say that there are care homes out there charging a lot more than the £2k a week, also what most people do not realise is that the nursing care part of the fees are paid by the NHS, so the money that care homes get is on top of the fees they charge.
NHS-funded nursing care is care provided by a registered nurse for people who live in a care home. The NHS will pay a flat rate contribution directly to the care home towards the cost of this registered nursing care.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Forever Blue » Fri May 15, 2020 9:45 am

Igovernor wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:I have said from day one, they make fortunes and should take some responsibility


Annis I have first hand experience of care homes, and have to say that there are care homes out there charging a lot more than the £2k a week, also what most people do not realise is that the nursing care part of the fees are paid by the NHS, so the money that care homes get is on top of the fees they charge.
NHS-funded nursing care is care provided by a registered nurse for people who live in a care home. The NHS will pay a flat rate contribution directly to the care home towards the cost of this registered nursing care.




Thanks Roger for updating me :thumbright: :thumbright:
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Igovernor » Fri May 15, 2020 10:01 am

Forever Blue wrote:
Igovernor wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:I have said from day one, they make fortunes and should take some responsibility


Annis I have first hand experience of care homes, and have to say that there are care homes out there charging a lot more than the £2k a week, also what most people do not realise is that the nursing care part of the fees are paid by the NHS, so the money that care homes get is on top of the fees they charge.
NHS-funded nursing care is care provided by a registered nurse for people who live in a care home. The NHS will pay a flat rate contribution directly to the care home towards the cost of this registered nursing care.




Thanks Roger for updating me :thumbright: :thumbright:

:thumbup: :ayatollah:
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby ManInBlack » Fri May 15, 2020 10:20 am

This is true, the bloody media feed you politically driven crap. Add insult to injury, most private care homes are owned by 'shell companies' abroad so pay no tax. They didn't spend money on PPE but they didn't miss their dividend payment to shareholders and directors.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Fri May 15, 2020 12:27 pm

There have been more than 500 deaths involving coronavirus in care homes in Wales so far, according to latest figures.

The 504 deaths notified to the Care Inspectorate Wales by local councils include 350 in care homes themselves and 137 deaths of residents taken to hospital.

Another 17 care home residents' deaths happened elsewhere.

Cardiff has the most care home deaths notified in Wales - 73.

Other figures from the Office for National Statistics, covering registered deaths, have 532 deaths involving Covid-19 in care homes in Wales.

This is the lowest number of nations and regions across England and Wales, registered up to 9 May.

But the ONS found the number of deaths overall among care home residents has increased compared to 2019.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby ReesWestonSuperMare » Fri May 15, 2020 2:31 pm

NOT all nurses in care homes are paid for the by the NHS. It depends on the needs of the individual patient / person.

There is certainly a business model available that means a company can domicile themselves abroad and pay very little tax. There is a company that supply carers from Romania - that come and live in - usually for 3 week periods. The company charge about 140 a day - of which the carer gets about half.

Anyway - that's another matter. If the nurse is an NHS employed nurse - then PPE now needs to be supplied - by the NHS. Anyone else working for the care home, will have it provided by the care home company (if they can actually find any PPE that is - the Chinese have bought most of it)

Post Covid rules need to come in that means the Govt only helps out companies in the UK that pay their fair share of tax.
Furloughed workers to have their tax threshold code lowered so over the next 10 years it is paid back via the tax system.

If you have someone on 45k a year who is furloughed and being paid 80% of their wages. This money needs to be repaid at some stage. It should not be collected in the form of taxes from a nurse that worked throughout this pandemic.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Igovernor » Fri May 15, 2020 2:56 pm

ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:NOT all nurses in care homes are paid for the by the NHS. It depends on the needs of the individual patient / person.
Refering to any registered nurse who gives nursing/medical care for carehome patients who work for the carehome and not the nhs, is why I stated that the nhs pays for nursing care direct to the care home, and it is their duty to supply ppe It is another matter when a registered nurse comes from the local surgery, they are paid by the surgery and therfore any ppe comes out of the surgery's budget at the end of the day the nhs pays. At the end of the day if medical nursing care is required then the NHS pays for it.

There is certainly a business model available that means a company can domicile themselves abroad and pay very little tax. There is a company that supply carers from Romania - that come and live in - usually for 3 week periods. The company charge about 140 a day - of which the carer gets about half.

Anyway - that's another matter. If the nurse is an NHS employed nurse - then PPE now needs to be supplied - by the NHS. Anyone else working for the care home, will have it provided by the care home company (if they can actually find any PPE that is - the Chinese have bought most of it)
You will find that

Post Covid rules need to come in that means the Govt only helps out companies in the UK that pay their fair share of tax.
Furloughed workers to have their tax threshold code lowered so over the next 10 years it is paid back via the tax system.

If you have someone on 45k a year who is furloughed and being paid 80% of their wages. This money needs to be repaid at some stage. It should not be collected in the form of taxes from a nurse that worked throughout this pandemic.


Refering to any registered nurse who gives nursing/medical care for carehome patients who work for the carehome and not the nhs, is why I stated that the nhs pays for nursing care direct to the care home, and it is their duty to supply ppe It is another matter when a registered nurse comes from the local surgery, they are paid by the surgery and therfore any ppe comes out of the surgery's budget at the end of the day the nhs pays. At the end of the day if medical nursing care is required whether it is paid for direct or indirectly for nursing care then the NHS pays for it. PPE for any other staff employed by the carehome, auxillary, cleaners, catering and any staff that do not give nursing/medical care will get it supplied and paid for by the carehome, as you say if they can get it :thumbup:

Ps Most carehomes will have registered nurses working for them as any drugs etc would have to be dispensed by someone registered to do so!
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Fri May 15, 2020 3:03 pm

Over 12,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales care homes

Official figures show that 12,256 residents of care homes in England and Wales died with Covid-19 mentioned on their death certificates.

That's more than a third higher than previously quoted figures - because some of the residents were admitted to hospital before they died, and so were counted in the main hospital statistics.

The figures from the Office for National Statistics cover the period between 2 March and 1 May. They provide the most extensive picture yet of the damage done by coronavirus in the social care system.

Covid-19 became the leading cause of death for men in care homes and the second leading cause for women.

In total, there were 45,889 deaths of care home residents, more than a quarter of which involved coronavirus.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Igovernor » Fri May 15, 2020 3:44 pm

TopCat CCFC wrote:Over 12,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales care homes

Official figures show that 12,256 residents of care homes in England and Wales died with Covid-19 mentioned on their death certificates.

That's more than a third higher than previously quoted figures - because some of the residents were admitted to hospital before they died, and so were counted in the main hospital statistics.

The figures from the Office for National Statistics cover the period between 2 March and 1 May. They provide the most extensive picture yet of the damage done by coronavirus in the social care system.

Covid-19 became the leading cause of death for men in care homes and the second leading cause for women.

In total, there were 45,889 deaths of care home residents, more than a quarter of which involved coronavirus.


Only one problem hereTC, is that if the care home residents who died were not tested for Covid19 then the doctor who filled out the death certificate can only guess that it was Covid19!
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby wez1927 » Fri May 15, 2020 4:20 pm

Igovernor wrote:
TopCat CCFC wrote:Over 12,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales care homes

Official figures show that 12,256 residents of care homes in England and Wales died with Covid-19 mentioned on their death certificates.

That's more than a third higher than previously quoted figures - because some of the residents were admitted to hospital before they died, and so were counted in the main hospital statistics.

The figures from the Office for National Statistics cover the period between 2 March and 1 May. They provide the most extensive picture yet of the damage done by coronavirus in the social care system.

Covid-19 became the leading cause of death for men in care homes and the second leading cause for women.

In total, there were 45,889 deaths of care home residents, more than a quarter of which involved coronavirus.


Only one problem hereTC, is that if the care home residents who died were not tested for Covid19 then the doctor who filled out the death certificate can only guess that it was Covid19!
agree friends elderly parent died in a care home, no test but covid mention on the death certificate, had loads of health problems and was on end of life care
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby skiprat » Fri May 15, 2020 5:43 pm

And for the "privilege" of being in a care home your property and life savings is taken off you to fund it down to the last 20k.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Sat May 16, 2020 4:24 pm

Coronavirus testing will be extended to all care home residents and staff in Wales, the Welsh Government has announced.

The Welsh Government had faced criticism for not testing everyone.

Initially, it had opted only to test individuals with symptoms, and then increased testing to larger homes with no signs of the virus on 6 May.

Health Minister Vaughan Gething said changes resulted from "emerging evidence and scientific advice".

Testing in care homes in Wales had been more restrictive than in England, where all residents and staff have been eligible for testing regardless of symptoms since the end of April.

First Minister Mark Drakeford said at the time there would be "no value" in providing coronavirus tests to everybody in care homes.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Foghorn65 » Sat May 16, 2020 4:32 pm

Care homes and testing only available if the home has more than 50 people?
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Sat May 16, 2020 5:35 pm

Foghorn65 wrote:Care homes and testing only available if the home has more than 50 people?


That what it was 50 or more - Now All homes regardless of numbers .
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Sun May 17, 2020 11:15 am

Gove defends government record on care homes

More now of senior minister Michael Gove's interview to the BBC's Andrew Marr. Gove has defended the government's record on care homes, saying it "significantly" increased the number of testing for all people who are symptomatic in those facilities.

There have been concerns that too many patients were discharged from hospitals to care homes without being tested but Gove said those decisions were led by clinicians.

According to the Office for National Statistics there were 8,312 deaths in care homes in England and Wales where coronavirus was written on the death certificate up to 1 May.

On the government's test, track and trace strategy, Gove said 17,000 contact tracers had now been recruited with a "significant" number" of them having already been trained.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Cardiff dyskinesia » Sun May 17, 2020 12:19 pm

[quote="ReesWestonSuperMare"]NOT all nurses in care homes are paid for the by the NHS. It depends on the needs of the individual patient / person.

There is certainly a business model available that means a company can domicile themselves abroad and pay very little tax. There is a company that supply carers from Romania - that come and live in - usually for 3 week periods. The company charge about 140 a day - of which the carer gets about half.

Anyway - that's another matter. If the nurse is an NHS employed nurse - then PPE now needs to be supplied - by the NHS. Anyone else working for the care home, will have it provided by the care home company (if they can actually find any PPE that is - the Chinese have bought most of it)

Post Covid rules need to come in that means the Govt only helps out companies in the UK that pay their fair share of tax.
Furloughed workers to have their tax threshold code lowered so over the next 10 years it is paid back via the tax system.

If you have someone on 45k a year who is furloughed and being paid 80% of their wages. This money needs to be repaid at some stage. It should not be collected in the form of taxes from a nurse that worked throughout this pandemic.[/

The NHS does not provide any nurses to private nursing homes. NHS nurses can do ‘bank’ shifts in private homes, but it’s in their time. Qualified nurses are employed directly by the company who owns the home, and have a duty of care for their safety and should provide PPE. Not many nurses without management responsibility will be on 45K
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby skidemin » Sun May 17, 2020 1:05 pm

ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:NOT all nurses in care homes are paid for the by the NHS. It depends on the needs of the individual patient / person.

There is certainly a business model available that means a company can domicile themselves abroad and pay very little tax. There is a company that supply carers from Romania - that come and live in - usually for 3 week periods. The company charge about 140 a day - of which the carer gets about half.

Anyway - that's another matter. If the nurse is an NHS employed nurse - then PPE now needs to be supplied - by the NHS. Anyone else working for the care home, will have it provided by the care home company (if they can actually find any PPE that is - the Chinese have bought most of it)

Post Covid rules need to come in that means the Govt only helps out companies in the UK that pay their fair share of tax.
Furloughed workers to have their tax threshold code lowered so over the next 10 years it is paid back via the tax system.

If you have someone on 45k a year who is furloughed and being paid 80% of their wages. This money needs to be repaid at some stage. It should not be collected in the form of taxes from a nurse that worked throughout this pandemic.



I don't think you can get 80% if your on 45k a year..
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Mon May 18, 2020 12:57 pm

First Minister Mark Drakeford has said Wales' care home testing policy had changed because the advice had changed.

The Welsh Government has announced that coronavirus testing will be extended to all care home residents and staff in Wales.

The Welsh Government had faced criticism for not testing everyone.

Speaking on BBC Radio Wales Breakfast, Mr Drakeford said he does not regret saying there was "no value" to testing care home residents and staff in Wales.

"What I said was what we were being told by our advisers at the time, that there wasn't a value at that point to offering testing in care homes where nobody had coronavirus and nobody was suspected of having coronavirus," he said.

"That advice has changed, our policy has changed."
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby ReesWestonSuperMare » Mon May 18, 2020 1:32 pm

Just to clarify - my argument was that if you have been furloughed and you are on the max on 2,500 a month in furlough money then when it comes to how this money will be clawed back - it should not come from tax rises on nurses or anyone else that worked through the crisis. If you were furloughed then your tax code needs to change so that you pay it back over 10 years.

If nurses that work in care homes are bank nurses - then you are correct - it is hope to nursing home to provide the PPE. As a nurse doing bank work - they have a right to say no thanks - especially if the care home doesnt provide ppe.

Hopefully after all this - there will be light shone on care homes and the way they operate. Throughout all of this emergency - the Govt should only provide furlough assistance etc to companies that are domiciled in the UK and pay the a fair share of tax, companies like Starbucks - amazon - Google, Apple, McDonalds, WHSmith, Nestle etc etc etc
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Bluebina » Mon May 18, 2020 5:06 pm

I saw Piers Morgan had one on last week, he lined them up, Did the Government pressure you into taking patients from hospitals, luckily she was dopey and said we had vacancies, so felt financial pressure to take some in from the hospital, which is partly what happened.
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby skidemin » Mon May 18, 2020 6:23 pm

ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:Just to clarify - my argument was that if you have been furloughed and you are on the max on 2,500 a month in furlough money then when it comes to how this money will be clawed back - it should not come from tax rises on nurses or anyone else that worked through the crisis. If you were furloughed then your tax code needs to change so that you pay it back over 10 years.

If nurses that work in care homes are bank nurses - then you are correct - it is hope to nursing home to provide the PPE. As a nurse doing bank work - they have a right to say no thanks - especially if the care home doesnt provide ppe.

Hopefully after all this - there will be light shone on care homes and the way they operate. Throughout all of this emergency - the Govt should only provide furlough assistance etc to companies that are domiciled in the UK and pay the a fair share of tax, companies like Starbucks - amazon - Google, Apple, McDonalds, WHSmith, Nestle etc etc etc



agree with those who worked right through not paying tax.. but its wishful thinking im afraid..
the £2500 was too high.. especially when your expecting others to work through it for far less and taking 20% of those who can least afford it on minimum wage..
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby Foghorn65 » Mon May 18, 2020 6:28 pm

These owners make absolute fortunes. They need to be held accountable for the money making machine that they are
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Tue May 19, 2020 4:16 pm

Care homes 'won't be forced to take back Covid patients'

No care home should be forced to take back recovering coronavirus patients if they feel they cannot provide appropriate care, Downing Street has said.

It comes after criticism that coronavirus outbreaks in care homes have been exacerbated by patients being discharged into their care from hospitals without being tested to see if they were still infected with the virus.

Number 10 has also stressed that Prime Minister Boris Johnson is "hugely grateful for the hard work and expertise of the UK's world-leading scientists".

The comment comes amid a row over who was responsible for a decision to stop community testing for coronavirus in March.

The government moved away from community tests on 12 March, as ministers decided to focus testing on patients with suspected Covid-19 in UK hospitals, care homes and prisons.

The PM's official spokesman did not specify, when asked, who took the decision, but said: "Scientists advise, ministers take decisions. That's how government works."
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Re: Owners of care homes

Postby TopCat CCFC » Thu May 21, 2020 4:33 pm

Up to 1,000 care homes could go bust in wake of Covid crisis

Up to 1,000 care homes are predicted to close as financial pressures heaped on the sector by coronavirus could soon make business unsustainable, experts have said.

At least two homes have already shut their doors temporarily. The closures are expected to trigger a domino effect across the long-term care sector, which employs more people than the NHS and is estimated to be worth about £31bn.

William Laing of research firm LaingBuisson predicted huge losses for investors and said that about a tenth of the UK's 10,000 care homes could go bust.

The total impact could be far greater, as research by the National Care Association (NCA), a trade body, finds that three-quarters of care providers have serious concerns about their viability post-coronavirus.
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