Been reading this forum and I felt that I had to speak (BLM)

I'll start by saying this, everyone is entitled to their opinions, whether I agree with them or not. This post isnt to start an argument or to accuse anyone of anything, but reading this forum over the past few weeks has actually surprised me. Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

Ok, so. I think anyone who believes the correct reply to "Black Lives Matter" is to instead reply "All lives matter" is silly. I feel these people honestly need to educate themselves a little more on what it actually means.

BLM does NOT mean black lives matter and nothing else, it does NOT mean white lives dont matter, it means exactly what it says. Black lives MATTER. Maybe people would understand more if it was made even simpler? Black lives matter, too. That's what it means.

Feel attacked by the phrase or not, it will not change the fact that black people are picked out and thought of as this or that. They're persecuted, their parents were, their grandparents were and so and and so on and so on. Sure, it may not be as bad today as it was when some of you were kids, so that maybe means you feel as if it's gotten better for everyone. Unfortunately, it's not enough. Nowhere near enough. When you get offended by that phrase, remember all the other phrases used against them in their lives. I'm sure you know what ones I'm thinking of, I dont need to spell them out.

The statue situation has been a hot topic on here and on twitter. Now I'm not going to go deep into this because I feel a lot of people will not have read past the first part because they may have their head in the sand because THEY feel attacked. But put yourself in their shoes before you feel attacked by phrases and "movements" and think how you would feel if every day you had to walk past a statue of a man who had taken your race from your land and moved you to a new country to be enslaved.

Everyone can cry about not deleting history because you will not learn from it. Sure, I agree. But in the same tone should we have statues of other bad men in that case if a statue is so important to remember bad history? A hitler statue on queen street perhaps? How else will we remember?

Imagine he persecuted your race and you had to walk past a statue honouring him every day? You wouldn't like it. It's a statue.

The churchill one is different, but I wonder how many people would suddenly change their tune on here when they remember that he sent in the army against Welsh miners? Would it suddenly be ok because he has now offended you? Or do we look at it objectively and see that he still done some good? It's a tricky situation, but Colston is not Churchill, no matter what he done in Bristol, because what he done in bristol was on the backs of black slaves.

Now inevitably, there will be another spike in coronavirus cases. And it is because of these protests. BUT I can back the cases growing because people fighting for what they feel is right, instead of some of the many other reasons that this virus will continue to grow. Beaches overflowing with people, no real testing, no real plan of action put in place by a hypocritical government. It pains me now that people who are wilfully blind to this governments actions now have a backup reason to divert all blame from their "team" solely to Black people and give boris his get out of jail free card. No, it wasnt the beaches, parks and playgrounds that helped it spread. Not the constant stream of people being allowed into the country via planes. Not the inadequate testing or tracing. Nope, it's going to be the black people who were fighting back against racism. Just them.

NOW, I'm not saying that they are blameless. It will spread more than it would have because of these protests. But it wasnt the only protest was it? Imagine protesting a protest that is protesting racism. Pathetic, really.

Also another thing that comes up on this forum a lot is Cardiff fans complaining about police restrictions (ironically) and feeling persecuted because they're not allowed to freely travel without feeling accosted. You feel like that going to a football match, and it's the end of the word. Now imagine that feeling every time you go to the shop? Or go to work?

And a few people on here have been complaining about people taking the knee in solidarity. I've seen some people get quite obviously vexed at the idea of players kneeling on the grass, yet say nothing about the policeman kneeling on the poor mans neck for nearly nine minutes. Completely missing the point.

Now I know it's easy to feel attacked and blamed when people start using terms like BLM or saying white people do this, or white people are that. Trust me, I get it. I used to feel the same way "well, I've never done anything. Why the f**k are you having a pop at me for? f**k you and your movement" but I honestly believe for the most part this movement is just wanting to be able to live their lives not BETTER than, but EQUAL to white people. And if you've got a problem with that, I'm sorry, but you're scum.

Now as I've said, they're not all Angel's, god knows there were people out there just to loot and cause trouble, but that was on both sides. Theres always going to be a bad minority ruining it for everyone, but come on guys, god knows weve had a few like that too. A few bad eggs shouldn't ruin the message.

Anyway, I thought I would have my say and maybe try to get a few things clearer. Trust me, I understand the temptation to batten down the hatches when you feel like you're being attacked based on just being white, but the main thing to realise is, black people have been feeling that way for centuries.

Very good post mate. I too have been shocked at some of the posts on here. Saying all lives matter is ridiculous IMO and I think you highlighted exactly why. It states BLM because black lives have not been equal to white lives and it’s time it changed. That’s all BLM want is equality nothing better, nothin worse.

I feel “all lives matter” is more inclusive and avoids positive discrimination.

This is further strengthened by official statistics (kindly posted recently by another member on here) which suggest that in America over the last four years, more white people have been killed by police than black people. However, there are less black people, so a higher percentage of people killed by police are black, although most of them were killed by other black people. Also, black people are involved in a much higher percentage of crimes, which naturally inflates the figure. There could just as easily be a white lives matter campaign based on these statistics, but there’s not. As someone who is against all forms of racism and prejudice, I think each case should be dealt with via factual evidence as opposed to skin colour, unless racism has been a proven factor.

What I do know is that due to lockdown, there has been very little going on in the world, but the newspapers have the same amount of pages.

For what it’s worth, I respect your passion despite having a different opinion and I’m sure we agree that no one should be killed by the police based on skin colour.

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

I feel “all lives matter” is more inclusive and avoids positive discrimination.

This is further strengthened by official statistics (kindly posted recently by another member on here) which suggest that in America over the last four years, more white people have been killed by police than black people. However, there are less black people, so a higher percentage of people killed by police are black, although most of them were killed by other black people. Also, black people are involved in a much higher percentage of crimes, which naturally inflates the figure. There could just as easily be a white lives matter campaign based on these statistics, but there’s not. As someone who is against all forms of racism and prejudice, I think each case should be dealt with via factual evidence as opposed to skin colour, unless racism has been a proven factor.

What I do know is that due to lockdown, there has been very little going on in the world, but the newspapers have the same amount of pages.

For what it’s worth, I respect your passion despite having a different opinion and I’m sure we agree that no one should be killed by the police based on skin colour.

I see your point, mate. But you could argue back that the black on black crime stat is mostly down to black people being in less influential areas? Thus less opportunity to get out of their situation or have anything that's theirs due to funding, or lack of, in their communities? I'm talking america here mostly. But you see it over here too, the rougher areas of cardiff that have a predominant white population but high crime rate isnt because they're white, it's because they're fucked and stuck. Obviously some people thrive on this situation but you see my point. I dont think theres anything inherently violent or criminal minded because of their skin colour, its the situation that people have been put in. Maybe they're angrier because of this, but that's the effect not the cause.

I 100% agree with you on the point that lockdown and flared this up to another level, and I think that's where some of these opportunistic people have came from too. Being locked up at home and then suddenly allowed out into a volatile and emotionally charged situation was always going to cause some problems, but I do also believe its helped get the point across (although too far in some cases such as taking down TV episodes and such, but that's the twitter echo chamber for you)

I have nothing to say on the sats vs White people point as you kind of answered it yourself, you cant get a good gauge due to such a gulf in population changing the stat %.

I think what it comes down to is, and this is a bit corny, but this really isnt just a black and white situation. Theres so many variables going on it makes covering this tricky, so I'm glad we can have an honest and open discussion about it without being idiots.

I will add too, my original post wasnt to call anybody racist. I honestly believe the comments on this forum havent been racist, just coming from a different angle and opinion. I dont think anything I've read comes from anyone who is actually prejudice. I just thought I'd add that.

There is quite a contrast between this board and Mike's board. I look on both, but only post on here. This one is much more right wing, which is fair enough. Still prefer it though. Things will probably quieten down when the football starts again.

Regarding the OP's remarks on Churchill. My grandfather fought in WW1, worked underground between the wars, and was in the National Fire Service during WW2. He would not have vandalised statues, but he did not have a good word to say about Churchill, because Churchill sent in the army against the South Wales miners. The fact that Labour won a landslide election victory in 1945 says something, too.

Anyway, each to their own opinion. Good OP. Good to have a different view to the majority.

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

Maybe you havent read it properly? I wasnt trying to be impartial, my position is pretty crystal clear I thought. What I WAS doing, was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt without being so harshly one sided and thinking anybody who doesnt agree with me isnt worth the time or effort to at least understand whilst putting my opinion across.

I see too much on this forum where the opinions are so hard on one side or the other, any nuance or middle ground is gone because people seem to feel they have to plant their flag firmly and hold on stubbornly.

I'll use a player as an example. One week hes a God here, has a stinker the next game he has to get out of the club. It happens with so many players.

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

Maybe you havent read it properly? I wasnt trying to be impartial, my position is pretty crystal clear I thought. What I WAS doing, was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt without being so harshly one sided and thinking anybody who doesnt agree with me isnt worth the time or effort to at least understand whilst putting my opinion across.

I see too much on this forum where the opinions are so hard on one side or the other, any nuance or middle ground is gone because people seem to feel they have to plant their flag firmly and hold on stubbornly.

I'll use a player as an example. One week hes a God here, has a stinker the next game he has to get out of the club. It happens with so many players.

You are contradicting yourself because you yourself are so far to one side you are not considering the arguments of the other which are widely spoken and you just bat them off as wrong.

So the main question is regarding that player statement and this subject.

Does it matter what colour skin the player has when the fans turn on them because of form ?

I think black people are wonderful.They brought us the blues that went to be R@B then to rock..Bands like The Kinks The Stones Led Zep covered their songs.
They work in our hospitals along with Asians etc.We'd be fucked without them.
We've chanted their names when they've played for us.Dave and Gary Bennett .Earnie.Jay B.God 'knows what they'd think if they read this message board.It seems as if Cardiff hasn’t moved on from when Cardiff rugby’s Billy Boston had to move to Rugby League because he couldn’t get a Welsh cap because he was black.
I related a story of a Cardiff female student being abused by white guys in the City centre.You made it up they said.
I'm old enough to remember Aberfan.People came from everywhere to support and dig to find survivors.
Paul Robeson [American opera singer]stood by the Welsh miners in the 1920s.His career was badly affected by this.
Whatever happened to We'll keep a welcome in the hillside.
I glad I’ve never been involved with the hooligan element of this club.Your really not my kind of people.

Black lives matter

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

Maybe you havent read it properly? I wasnt trying to be impartial, my position is pretty crystal clear I thought. What I WAS doing, was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt without being so harshly one sided and thinking anybody who doesnt agree with me isnt worth the time or effort to at least understand whilst putting my opinion across.

I see too much on this forum where the opinions are so hard on one side or the other, any nuance or middle ground is gone because people seem to feel they have to plant their flag firmly and hold on stubbornly.

I'll use a player as an example. One week hes a God here, has a stinker the next game he has to get out of the club. It happens with so many players.

You are contradicting yourself because you yourself are so far to one side you are not considering the arguments of the other which are widely spoken and you just bat them off as wrong.

So the main question is regarding that player statement and this subject.

Does it matter what colour skin the player has when the fans turn on them because of form ?

So I was wrong and one sided, because I dont agree with you? I've said I'm open to listen, but you've already made your mind up about me being wrong then? So wouldn't that mean you're being one sided also? Come on mate.

I'm not sure what you're getting at but I'll answer your last point.

No, of course it doesn't matter what colour the players skin is when you're slating them for dropping form. It doesnt matter BECAUSE you're not slating them for their skin colour, you're slating their performance, which has nothing to do with their skin colour. I'm really not sure what you're getting at there, my player point was how hard on one side people always are of an opinion with no want to listen to other points. I was using it as a framing device on how hard it is to talk about stuff like this without it turning petty or into an argument, which wasnt what I was attempting to do.

I think black people are wonderful.They brought us the blues that went to be R@B then to rock..Bands like The Kinks The Stones Led Zep covered their songs.
They work in our hospitals along with Asians etc.We'd be fucked without them.
We've chanted their names when they've played for us.Dave and Gary Bennett .Earnie.Jay B.God 'knows what they'd think if they read this message board.It seems as if Cardiff hasn’t moved on from when Cardiff rugby’s Billy Boston had to move to Rugby League because he couldn’t get a Welsh cap because he was black.
I related a story of a Cardiff female student being abused by white guys in the City centre.You made it up they said.
I'm old enough to remember Aberfan.People came from everywhere to support and dig to find survivors.
Paul Robeson [American opera singer]stood by the Welsh miners in the 1920s.His career was badly affected by this.
Whatever happened to We'll keep a welcome in the hillside.
I glad I’ve never been involved with the hooligan element of this club.Your really not my kind of people.

Black lives matter

What held all those you just mentioned back from achieving there dream or making it in life ?

What a the difference between them and people who still live in the streets on the dole?

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

Maybe you havent read it properly? I wasnt trying to be impartial, my position is pretty crystal clear I thought. What I WAS doing, was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt without being so harshly one sided and thinking anybody who doesnt agree with me isnt worth the time or effort to at least understand whilst putting my opinion across.

I see too much on this forum where the opinions are so hard on one side or the other, any nuance or middle ground is gone because people seem to feel they have to plant their flag firmly and hold on stubbornly.

I'll use a player as an example. One week hes a God here, has a stinker the next game he has to get out of the club. It happens with so many players.

You are contradicting yourself because you yourself are so far to one side you are not considering the arguments of the other which are widely spoken and you just bat them off as wrong.

So the main question is regarding that player statement and this subject.

Does it matter what colour skin the player has when the fans turn on them because of form ?

So I was wrong and one sided, because I dont agree with you? I've said I'm open to listen, but you've already made your mind up about me being wrong then? So wouldn't that mean you're being one sided also? Come on mate.

I'm not sure what you're getting at but I'll answer your last point.

No, of course it doesn't matter what colour the players skin is when you're slating them for dropping form. It doesnt matter BECAUSE you're not slating them for their skin colour, you're slating their performance, which has nothing to do with their skin colour. I'm really not sure what you're getting at there, my player point was how hard on one side people always are of an opinion with no want to listen to other points. I was using it as a framing device on how hard it is to talk about stuff like this without it turning petty or into an argument, which wasnt what I was attempting to do.

I actually have not said you are right or wrong and you dont know my views on this subject as I have not spoke about it. I just ask questions .

My point Is the skin colour does not matter when seeing a players form on a pitch because most people do not see it anymore . They dont get singled out because they are black in football just like they dont get singled out in life or by police in this country for doing something wrong . All the hard work of the last 30 years has been ruined by these protests as colour was not being seen before , now it is all that is seen because they have put everyone on a knife edge worrying if they speak out of turn or not.

IF the protests were peaceful and took into account the lockdown then these conversations would not even be taking place because the first 2 days they had the support of everybody until it turned violent and the looting started.

Very good post mate. I too have been shocked at some of the posts on here. Saying all lives matter is ridiculous IMO and I think you highlighted exactly why. It states BLM because black lives have not been equal to white lives and it’s time it changed. That’s all BLM want is equality nothing better, nothin worse.

I get it now.. BLM really means BLM too .. the printer left it out and they are suing him...

Times have changed.. I knew Somali seaman and West Indians .. great guys and sweet people. I see a lot of youngsters of those communities today, and they seem very angry and against it..

Your point on the blues is interesting( even tho I believe it has folk influences). If only they did that today instead of rap, which I think is anti-music with a very dark and depressing message. I don’t think it’s a positive vibe. Black music used to have soul and was refreshing.

Very good post mate. I too have been shocked at some of the posts on here. Saying all lives matter is ridiculous IMO and I think you highlighted exactly why. It states BLM because black lives have not been equal to white lives and it’s time it changed. That’s all BLM want is equality nothing better, nothin worse.

I get it now.. BLM really means BLM too .. the printer left it out and they are suing him...

Not read full contents to boring but get the feeling he's back remember this name last time it appeared and contents are same M.O

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

Maybe you havent read it properly? I wasnt trying to be impartial, my position is pretty crystal clear I thought. What I WAS doing, was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt without being so harshly one sided and thinking anybody who doesnt agree with me isnt worth the time or effort to at least understand whilst putting my opinion across.

I see too much on this forum where the opinions are so hard on one side or the other, any nuance or middle ground is gone because people seem to feel they have to plant their flag firmly and hold on stubbornly.

I'll use a player as an example. One week hes a God here, has a stinker the next game he has to get out of the club. It happens with so many players.

You are contradicting yourself because you yourself are so far to one side you are not considering the arguments of the other which are widely spoken and you just bat them off as wrong.

So the main question is regarding that player statement and this subject.

Does it matter what colour skin the player has when the fans turn on them because of form ?

So I was wrong and one sided, because I dont agree with you? I've said I'm open to listen, but you've already made your mind up about me being wrong then? So wouldn't that mean you're being one sided also? Come on mate.

I'm not sure what you're getting at but I'll answer your last point.

No, of course it doesn't matter what colour the players skin is when you're slating them for dropping form. It doesnt matter BECAUSE you're not slating them for their skin colour, you're slating their performance, which has nothing to do with their skin colour. I'm really not sure what you're getting at there, my player point was how hard on one side people always are of an opinion with no want to listen to other points. I was using it as a framing device on how hard it is to talk about stuff like this without it turning petty or into an argument, which wasnt what I was attempting to do.

I actually have not said you are right or wrong and you dont know my views on this subject as I have not spoke about it. I just ask questions .

My point Is the skin colour does not matter when seeing a players form on a pitch because most people do not see it anymore . They dont get singled out because they are black in football just like they dont get singled out in life or by police in this country for doing something wrong . All the hard work of the last 30 years has been ruined by these protests as colour was not being seen before , now it is all that is seen because they have put everyone on a knife edge worrying if they speak out of turn or not.

IF the protests were peaceful and took into account the lockdown then these conversations would not even be taking place because the first 2 days they had the support of everybody until it turned violent and the looting started.

I dont really want to keep going back and forth, we both have our stances (whatever yours is) and I'm sure if we met down the football we would get on great.

But unfortunately you've only got to go onto a players mentions on Twitter after a bad performance to see it. Its happened in the stands, it happens. Its happened live on sky games as recently as not long before the lockdown with that fan getting caught on the sky cameras. These are just the football situations. In the grand scale of things it may be one person in 50,000, but that's one too many.

I'm not saying its widespread, I'm not saying its everyone, like anything the vocal minority ruins it for everyone.

Very good post mate. I too have been shocked at some of the posts on here. Saying all lives matter is ridiculous IMO and I think you highlighted exactly why. It states BLM because black lives have not been equal to white lives and it’s time it changed. That’s all BLM want is equality nothing better, nothin worse.

I get it now.. BLM really means BLM too .. the printer left it out and they are suing him...

Not read full contents to boring but get the feeling he's back remember this name last time it appeared and contents are same M.O

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

Maybe you havent read it properly? I wasnt trying to be impartial, my position is pretty crystal clear I thought. What I WAS doing, was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt without being so harshly one sided and thinking anybody who doesnt agree with me isnt worth the time or effort to at least understand whilst putting my opinion across.

I see too much on this forum where the opinions are so hard on one side or the other, any nuance or middle ground is gone because people seem to feel they have to plant their flag firmly and hold on stubbornly.

I'll use a player as an example. One week hes a God here, has a stinker the next game he has to get out of the club. It happens with so many players.

You are contradicting yourself because you yourself are so far to one side you are not considering the arguments of the other which are widely spoken and you just bat them off as wrong.

So the main question is regarding that player statement and this subject.

Does it matter what colour skin the player has when the fans turn on them because of form ?

So I was wrong and one sided, because I dont agree with you? I've said I'm open to listen, but you've already made your mind up about me being wrong then? So wouldn't that mean you're being one sided also? Come on mate.

I'm not sure what you're getting at but I'll answer your last point.

No, of course it doesn't matter what colour the players skin is when you're slating them for dropping form. It doesnt matter BECAUSE you're not slating them for their skin colour, you're slating their performance, which has nothing to do with their skin colour. I'm really not sure what you're getting at there, my player point was how hard on one side people always are of an opinion with no want to listen to other points. I was using it as a framing device on how hard it is to talk about stuff like this without it turning petty or into an argument, which wasnt what I was attempting to do.

I actually have not said you are right or wrong and you dont know my views on this subject as I have not spoke about it. I just ask questions .

My point Is the skin colour does not matter when seeing a players form on a pitch because most people do not see it anymore . They dont get singled out because they are black in football just like they dont get singled out in life or by police in this country for doing something wrong . All the hard work of the last 30 years has been ruined by these protests as colour was not being seen before , now it is all that is seen because they have put everyone on a knife edge worrying if they speak out of turn or not.

IF the protests were peaceful and took into account the lockdown then these conversations would not even be taking place because the first 2 days they had the support of everybody until it turned violent and the looting started.

I dont really want to keep going back and forth, we both have our stances (whatever yours is) and I'm sure if we met down the football we would get on great.

But unfortunately you've only got to go onto a players mentions on Twitter after a bad performance to see it. Its happened in the stands, it happens. Its happened live on sky games as recently as not long before the lockdown with that fan getting caught on the sky cameras. These are just the football situations. In the grand scale of things it may be one person in 50,000, but that's one too many.

I'm not saying its widespread, I'm not saying its everyone, like anything the vocal minority ruins it for everyone.

We actually agree on some of it but because you only see one side and like most of the black lives matter protesters refuse to hear opposite arguements then it is impossible to have a discussion.
And that mindset is why this will rumble on for months and eventually fizzle out meaning no real change will be made for the issues that do exist in our country . No matter how big or small

Amazing how when trying to act impartial how one sided and blind one post can be about a subject

Maybe you havent read it properly? I wasnt trying to be impartial, my position is pretty crystal clear I thought. What I WAS doing, was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt without being so harshly one sided and thinking anybody who doesnt agree with me isnt worth the time or effort to at least understand whilst putting my opinion across.

I see too much on this forum where the opinions are so hard on one side or the other, any nuance or middle ground is gone because people seem to feel they have to plant their flag firmly and hold on stubbornly.

I'll use a player as an example. One week hes a God here, has a stinker the next game he has to get out of the club. It happens with so many players.

You are contradicting yourself because you yourself are so far to one side you are not considering the arguments of the other which are widely spoken and you just bat them off as wrong.

So the main question is regarding that player statement and this subject.

Does it matter what colour skin the player has when the fans turn on them because of form ?

So I was wrong and one sided, because I dont agree with you? I've said I'm open to listen, but you've already made your mind up about me being wrong then? So wouldn't that mean you're being one sided also? Come on mate.

I'm not sure what you're getting at but I'll answer your last point.

No, of course it doesn't matter what colour the players skin is when you're slating them for dropping form. It doesnt matter BECAUSE you're not slating them for their skin colour, you're slating their performance, which has nothing to do with their skin colour. I'm really not sure what you're getting at there, my player point was how hard on one side people always are of an opinion with no want to listen to other points. I was using it as a framing device on how hard it is to talk about stuff like this without it turning petty or into an argument, which wasnt what I was attempting to do.

I actually have not said you are right or wrong and you dont know my views on this subject as I have not spoke about it. I just ask questions .

My point Is the skin colour does not matter when seeing a players form on a pitch because most people do not see it anymore . They dont get singled out because they are black in football just like they dont get singled out in life or by police in this country for doing something wrong . All the hard work of the last 30 years has been ruined by these protests as colour was not being seen before , now it is all that is seen because they have put everyone on a knife edge worrying if they speak out of turn or not.

IF the protests were peaceful and took into account the lockdown then these conversations would not even be taking place because the first 2 days they had the support of everybody until it turned violent and the looting started.

I dont really want to keep going back and forth, we both have our stances (whatever yours is) and I'm sure if we met down the football we would get on great.

But unfortunately you've only got to go onto a players mentions on Twitter after a bad performance to see it. Its happened in the stands, it happens. Its happened live on sky games as recently as not long before the lockdown with that fan getting caught on the sky cameras. These are just the football situations. In the grand scale of things it may be one person in 50,000, but that's one too many.

I'm not saying its widespread, I'm not saying its everyone, like anything the vocal minority ruins it for everyone.

We actually agree on some of it but because you only see one side and like most of the black lives matter protesters refuse to hear opposite arguements then it is impossible to have a discussion.
And that mindset is why this will rumble on for months and eventually fizzle out meaning no real change will be made for the issues that do exist in our country . No matter how big or small

I'm open to listen, I dont know why you seem really convinced that I'm this close minded guy who hasnt taken in anything you've said. I'm just not going to reply to every point and say everything I've taken in. Like yourself, Beforehand it would have seemed we were on completely different sides of the spectrum, but as in your last reply you say we agree on things. And I think we would find most people would find common ground (on both sides) if they would just take the time, take a breather, and talk. Which I what I was hoping for from this.

For example I 100% agree that this will dominate the discussions for the next few months and the real problem that's slapping us in our face has seemingly disappeared, which is unfortunately far from the truth.

I'll be honest, I winced seeing the protests. I agree with the end goal, but seeing all these people when so many cases are still being confirmed is eye watering.

I wonder if that's a reason people have taken to this so strongly compared to other times? Something to take their attention away from the pandemic? I'd say it's definitely a reason why it had such big numbers, because people could get out.

I actually think the main reason a lot of people seem against black lives matter is down to the group not the message and the fact people took offence not against blacks but against the looting and violence towards our police force and monuments (some I can understand why).

One week we were clapping the key workers the next they were being assaulted

The message BLM is correct and should be a powerful symbol but really they should say too not just black lives matter. The whole thing was rushed out of anger and it's totally distorted the message.

The group BLM are dangerous and most people on those protests waving the banner do not understand what that group actually wants.

I'll start by saying this, everyone is entitled to their opinions, whether I agree with them or not. This post isnt to start an argument or to accuse anyone of anything, but reading this forum over the past few weeks has actually surprised me. Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

Ok, so. I think anyone who believes the correct reply to "Black Lives Matter" is to instead reply "All lives matter" is silly. I feel these people honestly need to educate themselves a little more on what it actually means.

BLM does NOT mean black lives matter and nothing else, it does NOT mean white lives dont matter, it means exactly what it says. Black lives MATTER. Maybe people would understand more if it was made even simpler? Black lives matter, too. That's what it means.

Feel attacked by the phrase or not, it will not change the fact that black people are picked out and thought of as this or that. They're persecuted, their parents were, their grandparents were and so and and so on and so on. Sure, it may not be as bad today as it was when some of you were kids, so that maybe means you feel as if it's gotten better for everyone. Unfortunately, it's not enough. Nowhere near enough. When you get offended by that phrase, remember all the other phrases used against them in their lives. I'm sure you know what ones I'm thinking of, I dont need to spell them out.

The statue situation has been a hot topic on here and on twitter. Now I'm not going to go deep into this because I feel a lot of people will not have read past the first part because they may have their head in the sand because THEY feel attacked. But put yourself in their shoes before you feel attacked by phrases and "movements" and think how you would feel if every day you had to walk past a statue of a man who had taken your race from your land and moved you to a new country to be enslaved.

Everyone can cry about not deleting history because you will not learn from it. Sure, I agree. But in the same tone should we have statues of other bad men in that case if a statue is so important to remember bad history? A hitler statue on queen street perhaps? How else will we remember?

Imagine he persecuted your race and you had to walk past a statue honouring him every day? You wouldn't like it. It's a statue.

The churchill one is different, but I wonder how many people would suddenly change their tune on here when they remember that he sent in the army against Welsh miners? Would it suddenly be ok because he has now offended you? Or do we look at it objectively and see that he still done some good? It's a tricky situation, but Colston is not Churchill, no matter what he done in Bristol, because what he done in bristol was on the backs of black slaves.

Now inevitably, there will be another spike in coronavirus cases. And it is because of these protests. BUT I can back the cases growing because people fighting for what they feel is right, instead of some of the many other reasons that this virus will continue to grow. Beaches overflowing with people, no real testing, no real plan of action put in place by a hypocritical government. It pains me now that people who are wilfully blind to this governments actions now have a backup reason to divert all blame from their "team" solely to Black people and give boris his get out of jail free card. No, it wasnt the beaches, parks and playgrounds that helped it spread. Not the constant stream of people being allowed into the country via planes. Not the inadequate testing or tracing. Nope, it's going to be the black people who were fighting back against racism. Just them.

NOW, I'm not saying that they are blameless. It will spread more than it would have because of these protests. But it wasnt the only protest was it? Imagine protesting a protest that is protesting racism. Pathetic, really.

Also another thing that comes up on this forum a lot is Cardiff fans complaining about police restrictions (ironically) and feeling persecuted because they're not allowed to freely travel without feeling accosted. You feel like that going to a football match, and it's the end of the word. Now imagine that feeling every time you go to the shop? Or go to work?

And a few people on here have been complaining about people taking the knee in solidarity. I've seen some people get quite obviously vexed at the idea of players kneeling on the grass, yet say nothing about the policeman kneeling on the poor mans neck for nearly nine minutes. Completely missing the point.

Now I know it's easy to feel attacked and blamed when people start using terms like BLM or saying white people do this, or white people are that. Trust me, I get it. I used to feel the same way "well, I've never done anything. Why the f**k are you having a pop at me for? f**k you and your movement" but I honestly believe for the most part this movement is just wanting to be able to live their lives not BETTER than, but EQUAL to white people. And if you've got a problem with that, I'm sorry, but you're scum.

Now as I've said, they're not all Angel's, god knows there were people out there just to loot and cause trouble, but that was on both sides. Theres always going to be a bad minority ruining it for everyone, but come on guys, god knows weve had a few like that too. A few bad eggs shouldn't ruin the message.

Anyway, I thought I would have my say and maybe try to get a few things clearer. Trust me, I understand the temptation to batten down the hatches when you feel like you're being attacked based on just being white, but the main thing to realise is, black people have been feeling that way for centuries.

Please don't post again unless you truly thought your post through thoroughly.

I've actually taken time to read your post twice, God I'm sad with to much time on my hands

But

I thought I'd understand it better 2nd time round. NO

What a load of absolute drivel and nonsense.

Please before posting next time advise us It's a long winded load of tripe.

I actually think the main reason a lot of people seem against black lives matter is down to the group not the message and the fact people took offence not against blacks but against the looting and violence towards our police force and monuments (some I can understand why).

One week we were clapping the key workers the next they were being assaulted

The message BLM is correct and should be a powerful symbol but really they should say too not just black lives matter. The whole thing was rushed out of anger and it's totally distorted the message.

The group BLM are dangerous and most people on those protests waving the banner do not understand what that group actually wants.

Yeah that's something I definitely agree on. Good point about the message vs the group, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that there are people who are revelling in the chaos and the division its causing.

I'll start by saying this, everyone is entitled to their opinions, whether I agree with them or not. This post isnt to start an argument or to accuse anyone of anything, but reading this forum over the past few weeks has actually surprised me. Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

Ok, so. I think anyone who believes the correct reply to "Black Lives Matter" is to instead reply "All lives matter" is silly. I feel these people honestly need to educate themselves a little more on what it actually means.

BLM does NOT mean black lives matter and nothing else, it does NOT mean white lives dont matter, it means exactly what it says. Black lives MATTER. Maybe people would understand more if it was made even simpler? Black lives matter, too. That's what it means.

Feel attacked by the phrase or not, it will not change the fact that black people are picked out and thought of as this or that. They're persecuted, their parents were, their grandparents were and so and and so on and so on. Sure, it may not be as bad today as it was when some of you were kids, so that maybe means you feel as if it's gotten better for everyone. Unfortunately, it's not enough. Nowhere near enough. When you get offended by that phrase, remember all the other phrases used against them in their lives. I'm sure you know what ones I'm thinking of, I dont need to spell them out.

The statue situation has been a hot topic on here and on twitter. Now I'm not going to go deep into this because I feel a lot of people will not have read past the first part because they may have their head in the sand because THEY feel attacked. But put yourself in their shoes before you feel attacked by phrases and "movements" and think how you would feel if every day you had to walk past a statue of a man who had taken your race from your land and moved you to a new country to be enslaved.

Everyone can cry about not deleting history because you will not learn from it. Sure, I agree. But in the same tone should we have statues of other bad men in that case if a statue is so important to remember bad history? A hitler statue on queen street perhaps? How else will we remember?

Imagine he persecuted your race and you had to walk past a statue honouring him every day? You wouldn't like it. It's a statue.

The churchill one is different, but I wonder how many people would suddenly change their tune on here when they remember that he sent in the army against Welsh miners? Would it suddenly be ok because he has now offended you? Or do we look at it objectively and see that he still done some good? It's a tricky situation, but Colston is not Churchill, no matter what he done in Bristol, because what he done in bristol was on the backs of black slaves.

Now inevitably, there will be another spike in coronavirus cases. And it is because of these protests. BUT I can back the cases growing because people fighting for what they feel is right, instead of some of the many other reasons that this virus will continue to grow. Beaches overflowing with people, no real testing, no real plan of action put in place by a hypocritical government. It pains me now that people who are wilfully blind to this governments actions now have a backup reason to divert all blame from their "team" solely to Black people and give boris his get out of jail free card. No, it wasnt the beaches, parks and playgrounds that helped it spread. Not the constant stream of people being allowed into the country via planes. Not the inadequate testing or tracing. Nope, it's going to be the black people who were fighting back against racism. Just them.

NOW, I'm not saying that they are blameless. It will spread more than it would have because of these protests. But it wasnt the only protest was it? Imagine protesting a protest that is protesting racism. Pathetic, really.

Also another thing that comes up on this forum a lot is Cardiff fans complaining about police restrictions (ironically) and feeling persecuted because they're not allowed to freely travel without feeling accosted. You feel like that going to a football match, and it's the end of the word. Now imagine that feeling every time you go to the shop? Or go to work?

And a few people on here have been complaining about people taking the knee in solidarity. I've seen some people get quite obviously vexed at the idea of players kneeling on the grass, yet say nothing about the policeman kneeling on the poor mans neck for nearly nine minutes. Completely missing the point.

Now I know it's easy to feel attacked and blamed when people start using terms like BLM or saying white people do this, or white people are that. Trust me, I get it. I used to feel the same way "well, I've never done anything. Why the f**k are you having a pop at me for? f**k you and your movement" but I honestly believe for the most part this movement is just wanting to be able to live their lives not BETTER than, but EQUAL to white people. And if you've got a problem with that, I'm sorry, but you're scum.

Now as I've said, they're not all Angel's, god knows there were people out there just to loot and cause trouble, but that was on both sides. Theres always going to be a bad minority ruining it for everyone, but come on guys, god knows weve had a few like that too. A few bad eggs shouldn't ruin the message.

Anyway, I thought I would have my say and maybe try to get a few things clearer. Trust me, I understand the temptation to batten down the hatches when you feel like you're being attacked based on just being white, but the main thing to realise is, black people have been feeling that way for centuries.

Please don't post again unless you truly thought your post through thoroughly.

I've actually taken time to read your post twice, God I'm sad with to much time on my hands

But

I thought I'd understand it better 2nd time round. NO

What a load of absolute drivel and nonsense.

Please before posting next time advise us It's a long winded load of tripe.

Ok, I'll be sure to send you my first draft nextime. Wasnt sure I needed your permission to post. Good to know.

But imagine hating something so much the first time, then reading it a second time and STILL being disgusted, and THEN STILL bothered to reply instead of moving on or at the very least say anything constructive or offer something to the conversation.

But no, you didnt. Now that REALLY meant you wasted your time. Goodnight. I wont bother replying again.

I actually think the main reason a lot of people seem against black lives matter is down to the group not the message and the fact people took offence not against blacks but against the looting and violence towards our police force and monuments (some I can understand why).

One week we were clapping the key workers the next they were being assaulted

The message BLM is correct and should be a powerful symbol but really they should say too not just black lives matter. The whole thing was rushed out of anger and it's totally distorted the message.

The group BLM are dangerous and most people on those protests waving the banner do not understand what that group actually wants.

the missing … too … on the end is intentional... its a well organised well funded organisation.. this was not a spur of the moment up rising... well at least it wasn't for the orchestrators.. oh and its roathy who in his last guise was claiming the death rate for covid would be 45%

I think black people are wonderful.They brought us the blues that went to be R@B then to rock..Bands like The Kinks The Stones Led Zep covered their songs.
They work in our hospitals along with Asians etc.We'd be fucked without them.
We've chanted their names when they've played for us.Dave and Gary Bennett .Earnie.Jay B.God 'knows what they'd think if they read this message board.It seems as if Cardiff hasn’t moved on from when Cardiff rugby’s Billy Boston had to move to Rugby League because he couldn’t get a Welsh cap because he was black.
I related a story of a Cardiff female student being abused by white guys in the City centre.You made it up they said.
I'm old enough to remember Aberfan.People came from everywhere to support and dig to find survivors.
Paul Robeson [American opera singer]stood by the Welsh miners in the 1920s.His career was badly affected by this.
Whatever happened to We'll keep a welcome in the hillside.
I glad I’ve never been involved with the hooligan element of this club.Your really not my kind of people.

Black lives matter

Well said mate. Black people have made a fantastic contribution to this country and to the USA, but are still treated as second class citizens by many. I find the majority of views on this forum to be very disturbing.

I don’t think mass immigration started by Blair has helped, and many people feel that they’ve had it foisted on them. I also believe that some in the black/Asian community didn’t want it either.

It was also taboo to talk about fears of immigration without being branded a racist, and that caused a great deal of resentment. So in many ways, attempts by the left wing to close discussion caused issues to fester.

I can honestly say I have never looked at a black person and thought I was any better than them.

I have had relationships with black women and have black friends, who even looks at them as black? They are just people or my friends same as everyone else.

However, I am pissed off with the whole BLM thing for loads of reasons, mainly the violence against the Police and SOME of our history.

Also, some of the people who seem to be at the front of the line to speak out on behalf of them talk absolute nonsense at times.

I think black people are wonderful.They brought us the blues that went to be R@B then to rock..Bands like The Kinks The Stones Led Zep covered their songs.
They work in our hospitals along with Asians etc.We'd be fucked without them.
We've chanted their names when they've played for us.Dave and Gary Bennett .Earnie.Jay B.God 'knows what they'd think if they read this message board.It seems as if Cardiff hasn’t moved on from when Cardiff rugby’s Billy Boston had to move to Rugby League because he couldn’t get a Welsh cap because he was black.
I related a story of a Cardiff female student being abused by white guys in the City centre.You made it up they said.
I'm old enough to remember Aberfan.People came from everywhere to support and dig to find survivors.
Paul Robeson [American opera singer]stood by the Welsh miners in the 1920s.His career was badly affected by this.
Whatever happened to We'll keep a welcome in the hillside.
I glad I’ve never been involved with the hooligan element of this club.Your really not my kind of people.

Black lives matter

Well said mate. Black people have made a fantastic contribution to this country and to the USA, but are still treated as second class citizens by many. I find the majority of views on this forum to be very disturbing.

I too have been astonished by the vitriol of some posters on the site. The general election, Brexit and now BLM has brought Tommy Robinson cohorts out of the woodwork. The posts on here are so right wing they are almost Fascist and make Millwall look like liberals.

RV post is spot on.

I feel “all lives matter” is more inclusive and avoids positive discrimination.

This is further strengthened by official statistics (kindly posted recently by another member on here) which suggest that in America over the last four years, more white people have been killed by police than black people. However, there are less black people, so a higher percentage of people killed by police are black, although most of them were killed by other black people. Also, black people are involved in a much higher percentage of crimes, which naturally inflates the figure. There could just as easily be a white lives matter campaign based on these statistics, but there’s not. As someone who is against all forms of racism and prejudice, I think each case should be dealt with via factual evidence as opposed to skin colour, unless racism has been a proven factor.

What I do know is that due to lockdown, there has been very little going on in the world, but the newspapers have the same amount of pages.

For what it’s worth, I respect your passion despite having a different opinion and I’m sure we agree that no one should be killed by the police based on skin colour.

I see your point, mate. But you could argue back that the black on black crime stat is mostly down to black people being in less influential areas? Thus less opportunity to get out of their situation or have anything that's theirs due to funding, or lack of, in their communities? I'm talking america here mostly. But you see it over here too, the rougher areas of cardiff that have a predominant white population but high crime rate isnt because they're white, it's because they're fucked and stuck. Obviously some people thrive on this situation but you see my point. I dont think theres anything inherently violent or criminal minded because of their skin colour, its the situation that people have been put in. Maybe they're angrier because of this, but that's the effect not the cause.

I 100% agree with you on the point that lockdown and flared this up to another level, and I think that's where some of these opportunistic people have came from too. Being locked up at home and then suddenly allowed out into a volatile and emotionally charged situation was always going to cause some problems, but I do also believe its helped get the point across (although too far in some cases such as taking down TV episodes and such, but that's the twitter echo chamber for you)

I have nothing to say on the sats vs White people point as you kind of answered it yourself, you cant get a good gauge due to such a gulf in population changing the stat %.

I think what it comes down to is, and this is a bit corny, but this really isnt just a black and white situation. Theres so many variables going on it makes covering this tricky, so I'm glad we can have an honest and open discussion about it without being idiots.

I will add too, my original post wasnt to call anybody racist. I honestly believe the comments on this forum havent been racist, just coming from a different angle and opinion. I dont think anything I've read comes from anyone who is actually prejudice. I just thought I'd add that.

Sorry mate but comparing against population is absolute lunacy.

Men make up 49% of America but are the victim of police killing 96% of the time. Are men the most oppressed group in the country... or do you think it’s higher because they commit crime in a higher proportion than their population?

I am afraid it is the BLM supporters than need to educate themselves as they are purporting stats that make no logic sense and putting forward scenarios and issues that aren’t backed up by any of the data available.

Black community makes up for 38% of ALL of America’s violent crime including 52% of all murders... so why would you expect them to only make up 12% of the police violence (their population split). There is a political agenda in America which is why they attempt to keep race an issue.

The black community do have issues. Single parenthood, culture, no focus on education - but white people are certainly not one of their issues. The BLM movement only keeps providing them with excuses for failure and creating a mental glass ceiling where they are told they cannot succeed due to the colour of their skin.

Police brutality is not a race issue, so “black lives matter” isn’t a suitable statement with regards to it in the first place. When it comes to police brutality “all lives matter” is absolutely the correct term to use. 72% of the victims of this are not black, those victims also deserve representation. Focusing on only the black lives helps absolutely nobody.

Still, the easiest way to avoid police violence is stop committing crime.