Been reading this forum and I felt that I had to speak (BLM)

Defo the new handle..

Defo the new handle..

If you like. However it’s probably best we get back to the thread.

Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

A couple of genuine questions to consider. Not just aimed at the OP but in general for anyone...

Do you think it could be the very fact that Cardiff has always been a multicultural city is the reason that there is so much pushback on the Black Lives Matter movement in that it feels like a race war is being systematically and methodically instigated when most of us have lived and loved alongside people of all races happily since we can remember?

Could it be that the broad narrative of BLM of telling a large section of the population who have never been racist that they are now inherently so is the source of the anger and frustration and likely the root cause of the push back?

Do you understand the difference between 'black lives matter' as a concept and a statement and Black Live Matter (capitalised) as a movement?

Is it racist to be against the political ideology of Black Lives Matter, which openly calls for the overthrow of capitalism and the destruction of the concept of the nuclear family amongst other fairly overt marxist ideals? If so why and is it then equally racist to stand against predominately white organisations (such as the socialist workers party) that have the same ideology?

Given there is fairly widespread confusion between the broad anti-racism message and the overtly political message of Black Lives Matter as a group, should the anger be directed at those who stand against that political ideology of BLM, or should it be directed at the political activists of BLM who have co-opted an anti-racism message and are subverting it with their very partisan politics?

Is the language that BLM activists use such as a 'genocide of black people at the hands of white cops' dangerous rhetoric when the facts are that in 2019 only 9 black unarmed people were killed by cops. (To be clear my position on this is that each and everyone should be fully investigated and if there is sufficient evidence that the cop was in the wrong they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for murder.) But the question remains is language like 'genocide' dangerous and hyperbolic to the extreme?

Is the aim is for achieving universal equality (MLK 'I have a dream') or retribution? If the former then surely all lives matter is the sensible option as the phrase 'black lives matter' only serves to sow separation and alienation further driving a wedge between the races - a rift that was almost non-existant for me growing up.

If it is the latter and you believe reparations should be paid, where does the story end? Do we go back to the Dahomey and Ashanti tribes of Western Africa who were the ones that caught and sold the slaves to the Western Europeans - can we push reparations back to their descendents in modern day Mali, Ghana and Benin?

If we are to acknowledge Britain and the USA's systemic racism today and try to better understand the role these countries played - should that extend to the fact that it was actually these two nations more than any other that brought about an end to slavery?

Exactly what was it that made the world leap unquestionably to the assumption that George Floyd's death was racially motivated? Why was there not a similar response to the killing of Tony Timpa in almost identical circumstances 4 years earlier? Was it because he was white?

By today's cultural standards am I racist for asking these questions? Do you think any of these questions is unreasonable to ask?


EA

Difference of opinion on here or anywhere else doesn't mean racism.

Spot on

Exactly!!
This is what grinds my gears. Unless you support BLM fully, you’re racist. Absolute rubbish.

That’s what’s winding me up and I won’t be forced to support something I don’t believe or agree with.
All lives matter and I respect everyone as equal

Well said Annis.

That’s an excellent post, I assume most of those questions were rhetorical though

You raise a good point about Cardiff and being multi-cultural. But I think globally there is a pushback against being told we are inherently racist in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

The problem is it’s the weak apologising culture that is pandering to the cancel culture that keeps people thinking the problem is actually legitimate. Leigh Francis crying sad he apologised for Bo Selecta where he played characters of ALL races and celebrities many of whom have no education to speak of being spokespeople for whole races, virtue signaling so people don’t label them racist. It’s all compounding the issue.

If you have done nothing wrong, stop apologising.

That’s an excellent post, I assume most of those questions were rhetorical though

You raise a good point about Cardiff and being multi-cultural. But I think globally there is a pushback against being told we are inherently racist in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

The problem is it’s the weak apologising culture that is pandering to the cancel culture that keeps people thinking the problem is actually legitimate. Leigh Francis crying sad he apologised for Bo Selecta where he played characters of ALL races and celebrities many of whom have no education to speak of being spokespeople for whole races, virtue signaling so people don’t label them racist. It’s all compounding the issue.

If you have done nothing wrong, stop apologising.

If someone has the answers they can have a go

You make good points though - especially regarding apologies.

Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

A couple of genuine questions to consider. Not just aimed at the OP but in general for anyone...

Do you think it could be the very fact that Cardiff has always been a multicultural city is the reason that there is so much pushback on the Black Lives Matter movement in that it feels like a race war is being systematically and methodically instigated when most of us have lived and loved alongside people of all races happily since we can remember?

Could it be that the broad narrative of BLM of telling a large section of the population who have never been racist that they are now inherently so is the source of the anger and frustration and likely the root cause of the push back?

Do you understand the difference between 'black lives matter' as a concept and a statement and Black Live Matter (capitalised) as a movement?

Is it racist to be against the political ideology of Black Lives Matter, which openly calls for the overthrow of capitalism and the destruction of the concept of the nuclear family amongst other fairly overt marxist ideals? If so why and is it then equally racist to stand against predominately white organisations (such as the socialist workers party) that have the same ideology?

Given there is fairly widespread confusion between the broad anti-racism message and the overtly political message of Black Lives Matter as a group, should the anger be directed at those who stand against that political ideology of BLM, or should it be directed at the political activists of BLM who have co-opted an anti-racism message and are subverting it with their very partisan politics?

Is the language that BLM activists use such as a 'genocide of black people at the hands of white cops' dangerous rhetoric when the facts are that in 2019 only 9 black unarmed people were killed by cops. (To be clear my position on this is that each and everyone should be fully investigated and if there is sufficient evidence that the cop was in the wrong they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for murder.) But the question remains is language like 'genocide' dangerous and hyperbolic to the extreme?

Is the aim is for achieving universal equality (MLK 'I have a dream') or retribution? If the former then surely all lives matter is the sensible option as the phrase 'black lives matter' only serves to sow separation and alienation further driving a wedge between the races - a rift that was almost non-existant for me growing up.

If it is the latter and you believe reparations should be paid, where does the story end? Do we go back to the Dahomey and Ashanti tribes of Western Africa who were the ones that caught and sold the slaves to the Western Europeans - can we push reparations back to their descendents in modern day Mali, Ghana and Benin?

If we are to acknowledge Britain and the USA's systemic racism today and try to better understand the role these countries played - should that extend to the fact that it was actually these two nations more than any other that brought about an end to slavery?

Exactly what was it that made the world leap unquestionably to the assumption that George Floyd's death was racially motivated? Why was there not a similar response to the killing of Tony Timpa in almost identical circumstances 4 years earlier? Was it because he was white?

By today's cultural standards am I racist for asking these questions? Do you think any of these questions is unreasonable to ask?


EA

some good questions... shame it cant be encapsulated in a shorter post { i realise its not possible } but it does seem much of the BLM support are not asking these questions...many are dumbfounded that people don't see it as simply as blackman dead..white cop = racial = spontaneous protests..

Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

A couple of genuine questions to consider. Not just aimed at the OP but in general for anyone...

Do you think it could be the very fact that Cardiff has always been a multicultural city is the reason that there is so much pushback on the Black Lives Matter movement in that it feels like a race war is being systematically and methodically instigated when most of us have lived and loved alongside people of all races happily since we can remember?

Could it be that the broad narrative of BLM of telling a large section of the population who have never been racist that they are now inherently so is the source of the anger and frustration and likely the root cause of the push back?

Do you understand the difference between 'black lives matter' as a concept and a statement and Black Live Matter (capitalised) as a movement?

Is it racist to be against the political ideology of Black Lives Matter, which openly calls for the overthrow of capitalism and the destruction of the concept of the nuclear family amongst other fairly overt marxist ideals? If so why and is it then equally racist to stand against predominately white organisations (such as the socialist workers party) that have the same ideology?

Given there is fairly widespread confusion between the broad anti-racism message and the overtly political message of Black Lives Matter as a group, should the anger be directed at those who stand against that political ideology of BLM, or should it be directed at the political activists of BLM who have co-opted an anti-racism message and are subverting it with their very partisan politics?

Is the language that BLM activists use such as a 'genocide of black people at the hands of white cops' dangerous rhetoric when the facts are that in 2019 only 9 black unarmed people were killed by cops. (To be clear my position on this is that each and everyone should be fully investigated and if there is sufficient evidence that the cop was in the wrong they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for murder.) But the question remains is language like 'genocide' dangerous and hyperbolic to the extreme?

Is the aim is for achieving universal equality (MLK 'I have a dream') or retribution? If the former then surely all lives matter is the sensible option as the phrase 'black lives matter' only serves to sow separation and alienation further driving a wedge between the races - a rift that was almost non-existant for me growing up.

If it is the latter and you believe reparations should be paid, where does the story end? Do we go back to the Dahomey and Ashanti tribes of Western Africa who were the ones that caught and sold the slaves to the Western Europeans - can we push reparations back to their descendents in modern day Mali, Ghana and Benin?

If we are to acknowledge Britain and the USA's systemic racism today and try to better understand the role these countries played - should that extend to the fact that it was actually these two nations more than any other that brought about an end to slavery?

Exactly what was it that made the world leap unquestionably to the assumption that George Floyd's death was racially motivated? Why was there not a similar response to the killing of Tony Timpa in almost identical circumstances 4 years earlier? Was it because he was white?

By today's cultural standards am I racist for asking these questions? Do you think any of these questions is unreasonable to ask?


EA

I wasnt going to continue to reply in this thread again because some of the replies have been a bit silly and I would be here all day back and forth and we would all get nowhere.

But I had to reply to this just to say that this is actually a wonderful response to my original post. It wasnt closed off or hard on an opinion but offered rebuttals to my post and asked questions of it's own that are very very valid.

Maybe people would have read my original post and thought that I was so far on one side and I was one of these twitter activists who dont want to listen. I can assure you I'm not and I really do see some of the arguments against BLM, I have some myself. Maybe my original post was on the strong side, maybe I was in a bad mood and pissed off at some things I've been reading on here, but posts like this do really make me think and see the other side of the conversation.

Now I'm really not going to reply again to anything, but I will finish with this.

I think this thread has proven that no matter how varied the arguments are against or for, we really are all wanting the same thing. Theres just a disagreement on how it's being done.

I think this thread has proven that no matter how varied the arguments are against or for, we really are all wanting the same thing. Theres just a disagreement on how it's being done.

I can certainly agree with that sentiment .

Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

A couple of genuine questions to consider. Not just aimed at the OP but in general for anyone...

Do you think it could be the very fact that Cardiff has always been a multicultural city is the reason that there is so much pushback on the Black Lives Matter movement in that it feels like a race war is being systematically and methodically instigated when most of us have lived and loved alongside people of all races happily since we can remember?

Could it be that the broad narrative of BLM of telling a large section of the population who have never been racist that they are now inherently so is the source of the anger and frustration and likely the root cause of the push back?

Do you understand the difference between 'black lives matter' as a concept and a statement and Black Live Matter (capitalised) as a movement?

Is it racist to be against the political ideology of Black Lives Matter, which openly calls for the overthrow of capitalism and the destruction of the concept of the nuclear family amongst other fairly overt marxist ideals? If so why and is it then equally racist to stand against predominately white organisations (such as the socialist workers party) that have the same ideology?

Given there is fairly widespread confusion between the broad anti-racism message and the overtly political message of Black Lives Matter as a group, should the anger be directed at those who stand against that political ideology of BLM, or should it be directed at the political activists of BLM who have co-opted an anti-racism message and are subverting it with their very partisan politics?

Is the language that BLM activists use such as a 'genocide of black people at the hands of white cops' dangerous rhetoric when the facts are that in 2019 only 9 black unarmed people were killed by cops. (To be clear my position on this is that each and everyone should be fully investigated and if there is sufficient evidence that the cop was in the wrong they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for murder.) But the question remains is language like 'genocide' dangerous and hyperbolic to the extreme?

Is the aim is for achieving universal equality (MLK 'I have a dream') or retribution? If the former then surely all lives matter is the sensible option as the phrase 'black lives matter' only serves to sow separation and alienation further driving a wedge between the races - a rift that was almost non-existant for me growing up.

If it is the latter and you believe reparations should be paid, where does the story end? Do we go back to the Dahomey and Ashanti tribes of Western Africa who were the ones that caught and sold the slaves to the Western Europeans - can we push reparations back to their descendents in modern day Mali, Ghana and Benin?

If we are to acknowledge Britain and the USA's systemic racism today and try to better understand the role these countries played - should that extend to the fact that it was actually these two nations more than any other that brought about an end to slavery?

Exactly what was it that made the world leap unquestionably to the assumption that George Floyd's death was racially motivated? Why was there not a similar response to the killing of Tony Timpa in almost identical circumstances 4 years earlier? Was it because he was white?

By today's cultural standards am I racist for asking these questions? Do you think any of these questions is unreasonable to ask?


EA

This is a superb post There are some very important and relevant questions there, and you've managed to make your point in a way that a lot have completely failed at on this forum over the past couple of weeks.

RE the quote that I've made bold, whilst the part these countries played in abolishing slavery should be acknowledged, it has next to no relevance on any modern day systematic racism. You don't have to do much research or even go back too far in time to see that every time BAME people in Britain or the USA pushed for equal rights, they were fought every inch of the way by people in power and large sections of people that didn't want this to happen.

But you're right, communication is so important in extremely sensitive issues like this, and it's such a shame the extremist minority element of the movement have shifted the focus so far away from it's origin. In the UK, we should have used this platform to have an honest and open discussion about the racism that still exists in our country, and instead it seems we've once again regressed to a needless proxy war between the left and right where we've totally missed the point.

Wasn’t there an EU survey a while back identifying the UK as the least racist country in Europe? Don’t know about other countries, but UK has made great strides only for BLM to set it back.

Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

A couple of genuine questions to consider. Not just aimed at the OP but in general for anyone...

Do you think it could be the very fact that Cardiff has always been a multicultural city is the reason that there is so much pushback on the Black Lives Matter movement in that it feels like a race war is being systematically and methodically instigated when most of us have lived and loved alongside people of all races happily since we can remember?

Could it be that the broad narrative of BLM of telling a large section of the population who have never been racist that they are now inherently so is the source of the anger and frustration and likely the root cause of the push back?

Do you understand the difference between 'black lives matter' as a concept and a statement and Black Live Matter (capitalised) as a movement?

Is it racist to be against the political ideology of Black Lives Matter, which openly calls for the overthrow of capitalism and the destruction of the concept of the nuclear family amongst other fairly overt marxist ideals? If so why and is it then equally racist to stand against predominately white organisations (such as the socialist workers party) that have the same ideology?

Given there is fairly widespread confusion between the broad anti-racism message and the overtly political message of Black Lives Matter as a group, should the anger be directed at those who stand against that political ideology of BLM, or should it be directed at the political activists of BLM who have co-opted an anti-racism message and are subverting it with their very partisan politics?

Is the language that BLM activists use such as a 'genocide of black people at the hands of white cops' dangerous rhetoric when the facts are that in 2019 only 9 black unarmed people were killed by cops. (To be clear my position on this is that each and everyone should be fully investigated and if there is sufficient evidence that the cop was in the wrong they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for murder.) But the question remains is language like 'genocide' dangerous and hyperbolic to the extreme?

Is the aim is for achieving universal equality (MLK 'I have a dream') or retribution? If the former then surely all lives matter is the sensible option as the phrase 'black lives matter' only serves to sow separation and alienation further driving a wedge between the races - a rift that was almost non-existant for me growing up.

If it is the latter and you believe reparations should be paid, where does the story end? Do we go back to the Dahomey and Ashanti tribes of Western Africa who were the ones that caught and sold the slaves to the Western Europeans - can we push reparations back to their descendents in modern day Mali, Ghana and Benin?

If we are to acknowledge Britain and the USA's systemic racism today and try to better understand the role these countries played - should that extend to the fact that it was actually these two nations more than any other that brought about an end to slavery?

Exactly what was it that made the world leap unquestionably to the assumption that George Floyd's death was racially motivated? Why was there not a similar response to the killing of Tony Timpa in almost identical circumstances 4 years earlier? Was it because he was white?

By today's cultural standards am I racist for asking these questions? Do you think any of these questions is unreasonable to ask?


EA

Absolutely phenomenal post, excellent valid points and exactly what most people feel, this does not make you a racist and
its is just a shame that these views will never be represented on main stream media.

Regardless of what we are led to believe is the opinion of the majority by the press and media it is obviously not the case.

Its funny that the same press and social media channels had everyone under 25 totally convinced that Labour were going to smash the last election, Corbyn was a dead cert and Brexit would never happen and look how that turned out.

If we are to acknowledge Britain and the USA's systemic racism today and try to better understand the role these countries played - should that extend to the fact that it was actually these two nations more than any other that brought about an end to slavery?

This is a superb post There are some very important and relevant questions there, and you've managed to make your point in a way that a lot have completely failed at on this forum over the past couple of weeks.

RE the quote that I've made bold, whilst the part these countries played in abolishing slavery should be acknowledged, it has next to no relevance on any modern day systematic racism. You don't have to do much research or even go back too far in time to see that every time BAME people in Britain or the USA pushed for equal rights, they were fought every inch of the way by people in power and large sections of people that didn't want this to happen.

But you're right, communication is so important in extremely sensitive issues like this, and it's such a shame the extremist minority element of the movement have shifted the focus so far away from it's origin. In the UK, we should have used this platform to have an honest and open discussion about the racism that still exists in our country, and instead it seems we've once again regressed to a needless proxy war between the left and right where we've totally missed the point.

Cheers mate - appreciate the kind words. I actually completely agree with what you are saying about the abolition of slavery in the 19th century being a separate issue to the fight for equal rights of the 20th century.

This in part is an issue I also hold with BLM. They have conflated the two issues by leveraging emotive topics and playing on people's ignorance on one hand and deliberate obfuscation by those pulling the strings on the other. The current focus on tearing down statues is essentially a symptom of that.

How often do we hear about BLM in the states openly speak about how redlining, the war on drugs or the establishment of planned parenthood in majority black neighbourhoods has had major negative impact on the black community in the US. Very rarely and I can't help but think that is political because these are all issues that were led by democrats. It is far easier to point at the bad racist orange man and get everyone whipped up about reparations for slavery and tearing down statues than look in the mirror and ask the actual important questions about how to improve the lives of people in the black community today.

Same goes here in the UK. How often do you here BLM taking Kahn to task because under his watch London has spiralled to a point where the murder rate is higher than New York - again disproportionately impacting the black communities of inner city East London. There are big things that can be done to help the Black Community and build a more equitable society. Johnson actually reduced knife crime by 23% but ask BLM who did more for the Black Community in London and they will always point to Labour.

BLM don't seem to care about them though.

You make a really great point about the wasted opportunity for honest and open discussion. Hopefully we can get there evemn if we started the wrong way

Unfortunately for blm, they are run by McFarlane and his cohorts, most of whom hold extreme views that encourage discourse.

I agree What the OP states about ‘a push back’ or resistance From society In regards to the BLM and being indirectly accused of being racist or just trying to accept that racism still exists due to anger and frustration as many people have lived with and alongside black people for years and view equally.

However could it be also down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit biases? (bias at a subconscious level).
Fear of being identified as being different than who they view themselves as, fear of change, fear through refusing to accept racism exists - even in their own heart. Many people don’t think they are racist and what many don’t recognise is their implicit bias. So the main question is - is it in many occasions down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit bias? Of course bias exists in everything and can never be fully eradicated however recognising that you have biases, is the first step in reducing them. Racial biases should never be tolerated.

Call me naive, but I always thought that Cardiff being a multicultural city would mean that our fans as a whole would have more of an understanding about what's going on and the plight of different races.

A couple of genuine questions to consider. Not just aimed at the OP but in general for anyone...

Do you think it could be the very fact that Cardiff has always been a multicultural city is the reason that there is so much pushback on the Black Lives Matter movement in that it feels like a race war is being systematically and methodically instigated when most of us have lived and loved alongside people of all races happily since we can remember?

Could it be that the broad narrative of BLM of telling a large section of the population who have never been racist that they are now inherently so is the source of the anger and frustration and likely the root cause of the push back?

Do you understand the difference between 'black lives matter' as a concept and a statement and Black Live Matter (capitalised) as a movement?

Is it racist to be against the political ideology of Black Lives Matter, which openly calls for the overthrow of capitalism and the destruction of the concept of the nuclear family amongst other fairly overt marxist ideals? If so why and is it then equally racist to stand against predominately white organisations (such as the socialist workers party) that have the same ideology?

Given there is fairly widespread confusion between the broad anti-racism message and the overtly political message of Black Lives Matter as a group, should the anger be directed at those who stand against that political ideology of BLM, or should it be directed at the political activists of BLM who have co-opted an anti-racism message and are subverting it with their very partisan politics?

Is the language that BLM activists use such as a 'genocide of black people at the hands of white cops' dangerous rhetoric when the facts are that in 2019 only 9 black unarmed people were killed by cops. (To be clear my position on this is that each and everyone should be fully investigated and if there is sufficient evidence that the cop was in the wrong they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for murder.) But the question remains is language like 'genocide' dangerous and hyperbolic to the extreme?

Is the aim is for achieving universal equality (MLK 'I have a dream') or retribution? If the former then surely all lives matter is the sensible option as the phrase 'black lives matter' only serves to sow separation and alienation further driving a wedge between the races - a rift that was almost non-existant for me growing up.

If it is the latter and you believe reparations should be paid, where does the story end? Do we go back to the Dahomey and Ashanti tribes of Western Africa who were the ones that caught and sold the slaves to the Western Europeans - can we push reparations back to their descendents in modern day Mali, Ghana and Benin?

If we are to acknowledge Britain and the USA's systemic racism today and try to better understand the role these countries played - should that extend to the fact that it was actually these two nations more than any other that brought about an end to slavery?

Exactly what was it that made the world leap unquestionably to the assumption that George Floyd's death was racially motivated? Why was there not a similar response to the killing of Tony Timpa in almost identical circumstances 4 years earlier? Was it because he was white?

By today's cultural standards am I racist for asking these questions? Do you think any of these questions is unreasonable to ask?


EA

I wasnt going to continue to reply in this thread again because some of the replies have been a bit silly and I would be here all day back and forth and we would all get nowhere.

But I had to reply to this just to say that this is actually a wonderful response to my original post. It wasnt closed off or hard on an opinion but offered rebuttals to my post and asked questions of it's own that are very very valid.

Maybe people would have read my original post and thought that I was so far on one side and I was one of these twitter activists who dont want to listen. I can assure you I'm not and I really do see some of the arguments against BLM, I have some myself. Maybe my original post was on the strong side, maybe I was in a bad mood and pissed off at some things I've been reading on here, but posts like this do really make me think and see the other side of the conversation.

Now I'm really not going to reply again to anything, but I will finish with this.

I think this thread has proven that no matter how varied the arguments are against or for, we really are all wanting the same thing. Theres just a disagreement on how it's being done.

Deffo agree with your last paragraph mate.

Aided by a compliant media,BLM and Antifa have put race relations back 30 years. In the U.K. a disproportionately high number of white People die in police custody, the worst outcomes in education are for working class white boys yet all the attention is on the “struggle”of black people. Frankly I’m sick of the moaning and whinging, if I wanted to be surrounded by grizziling no marks who blame everyone but themselves for what’s wrong in their life I’d move back to Nicola Sturgeons Scotland.

I agree What the OP states about ‘a push back’ or resistance From society In regards to the BLM and being indirectly accused of being racist or just trying to accept that racism still exists due to anger and frustration as many people have lived with and alongside black people for years and view equally.

However could it be also down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit biases? (bias at a subconscious level).
Fear of being identified as being different than who they view themselves as, fear of change, fear through refusing to accept racism exists - even in their own heart. Many people don’t think they are racist and what many don’t recognise is their implicit bias. So the main question is - is it in many occasions down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit bias? Of course bias exists in everything and can never be fully eradicated however recognising that you have biases, is the first step in reducing them. Racial biases should never be tolerated.

Of course their is bias. No better demonstrated than by Zulu and Xhosa, and its all about power. Mandela couldnt sort it out, and after thousands of years, its still going on. You could also debate the positives of the British Empire but bias prevents it other than through the eyes of slavery and conquest.


Jocks point on the media is right. Theyre carrying on regardless of where the nation is, on a number of issues.

I agree What the OP states about ‘a push back’ or resistance From society In regards to the BLM and being indirectly accused of being racist or just trying to accept that racism still exists due to anger and frustration as many people have lived with and alongside black people for years and view equally.

However could it be also down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit biases? (bias at a subconscious level).
Fear of being identified as being different than who they view themselves as, fear of change, fear through refusing to accept racism exists - even in their own heart. Many people don’t think they are racist and what many don’t recognise is their implicit bias. So the main question is - is it in many occasions down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit bias? Of course bias exists in everything and can never be fully eradicated however recognising that you have biases, is the first step in reducing them. Racial biases should never be tolerated.

You raise a valid counterpoint. I guess I would ask if implicit bias is a subconscious bias how do we regulate thought without entering into a minority report Orwellian dystopia?

And if we are to dismiss ideas of thought crime as fantasy then what explicit demonstrations of racial bias are either legal or socially acceptable in 2020?

Finally, what will the violent actions of BLM in recent weeks have done in terms of subconscious bias in terms of the general population. Have they raised awareness or sown seeds of dissent at the unconscious level?

As Kafka said, I think most of us are actually all on the same side in terms of the concept of racial equality. Just there are massive gaps in how we think it should be approached.

I agree What the OP states about ‘a push back’ or resistance From society In regards to the BLM and being indirectly accused of being racist or just trying to accept that racism still exists due to anger and frustration as many people have lived with and alongside black people for years and view equally.

However could it be also down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit biases? (bias at a subconscious level).
Fear of being identified as being different than who they view themselves as, fear of change, fear through refusing to accept racism exists - even in their own heart. Many people don’t think they are racist and what many don’t recognise is their implicit bias. So the main question is - is it in many occasions down to people’s fear of accepting their implicit bias? Of course bias exists in everything and can never be fully eradicated however recognising that you have biases, is the first step in reducing them. Racial biases should never be tolerated.

You raise a valid counterpoint. I guess I would ask if implicit bias is a subconscious bias how do we regulate thought without entering into a minority report Orwellian dystopia?

And if we are to dismiss ideas of thought crime as fantasy then what explicit demonstrations of racial bias are either legal or socially acceptable in 2020?

Finally, what will the violent actions of BLM in recent weeks have done in terms of subconscious bias in terms of the general population. Have they raised awareness or sown seeds of dissent at the unconscious level?

As Kafka said, I think most of us are actually all on the same side in terms of the concept of racial equality. Just there are massive gaps in how we think it should be approached.

Last sentence nails it.

I thought you wanted your account deleted?

No idea what you are referring to. Why would I want my account deleted?

In defence of Igovernor, you do know where he was coming from; if not relating to THIS name directly

You've had a number of names running side by side over the last week or two and that's a FACT!

I thought you wanted your account deleted?

No idea what you are referring to. Why would I want my account deleted?

In defence of Igovernor, you do know where he was coming from; if not relating to THIS name directly

You've had a number of names running side by side over the last week or two and that's a FACT!

I have no idea where he is coming from, and no idea where you are coming from.

This is my only name and has been ever since it was created, now that is a fact for you. I never have more than one active name ever. Not sure why you never learn that - its not what I do.

If you have been having tiffs with other people then that's your business, but leave me out of it please.

On that thought.... What names are you referring to out of interest, I would like to see what they have said - out of sheer morbid curiosity.