I had heard the rumours regarding Swansea / it seems true

Roathie will say otherwise
He knows best

Nope, Annis is correct. The Academy status is absolutely being downgraded.

I said it would be a while ago, I said it would probably go after the parachute payments have ended, but since COVID, looks like it will be a year earlier than scheduled.

It’s very expensive to run, almost £4m a year. Completely unsustainable in the Championship.

Rubbish, £4m/year is sustainable if you produce only one decent player/year. The Jacks have produced many since having a Category 1 Academy and sold some on for massive fees, Ben Davies, Joe Allan,Dan James,McBurnie etc while they still have Welsh Internationals Roberts,Roden and Cardiff boy Cabanga etc That’s well over 100m of talent in 10years!
If we’re serious in producing on own players we take on their Category 1 status!

Ben Davies and Joe Allen were defo products. but not of a cat 1 academy... most of their time as juniors was spent training wherever was cheap and playing in places like the Elba... not even sure it was called an academy but cetainly wouldnt qualify to be one today... let alone cat1..

Even Cabango and Dan James came before Cat 1 status.

We achieved Cat 1 status just before 2016/17 season. Cabango and James signed in 2014. I think even McBurnie was signed before Cat 1 status.

So we have had nobody come through as a direct result of Cat 1 status. It’s an expensive luxury, great if you are an EPL club with £120m income a year where it barely registers at 3% of turnover. Not so great when you have to dedicate a 30% of your total income to it in the Championship however.

I’m sure people think you get Cat 1 status and it becomes a conveyor belt. It’s not the reality unfortunately.

Apparently the total cost of keeping what they have running is 300k per month, roughly 3.5 million a year. The owners dont want to finance it anymore - so they are looking to offload / sell parts of it.

Apparently the total cost of keeping what they have running is 300k per month, roughly 3.5 million a year. The owners dont want to finance it anymore - so they are looking to offload / sell parts of it.

It's not that they don't want to fund it, the club simply can't fund it while in the championship.

What do you mean sell parts of it? The Academy isn't going, we are just downgrading which means staff are cut essentially. Category 1 acts as a school also.

They may lease parts of it that will now be unoccupied to the University if that's what you mean?

Just because they sell an academy player for 4 million - you shouldnt assume that the money will go to the academy. It will go into the coffers of the club - and the owners will decide what they do with the money. Like getting their investment back, paying themselves a dividend or even transferring the money back to the parent company - to help out their other businesses in the US

Just because they sell an academy player for 4 million - you shouldnt assume that the money will go to the academy. It will go into the coffers of the club - and the owners will decide what they do with the money. Like getting their investment back, paying themselves a dividend or even transferring the money back to the parent company - to help out their other businesses in the US

Well some of that is true. But some of it also isn't true.

You are right that the cash goes to the club (after costs), and you are right that the owners will decide what is best to do with it. You are right they could take a dividend IF a profit is made that financial year, and it can only be a portion of that profit. but they wouldn't do that for various reasons I would happily go into if you wanted to know.

But you are wrong in terms of getting their investment back, money cannot be taken out of the club to cover such things as it is not the club's debt or responsibility to service. They also cannot transfer the money to their holding company (in Delaware), they could redirect their dividend there but the transfer fee the club earned would stay with Swansea City plc.

Just because they sell an academy player for 4 million - you shouldnt assume that the money will go to the academy. It will go into the coffers of the club - and the owners will decide what they do with the money. Like getting their investment back, paying themselves a dividend or even transferring the money back to the parent company - to help out their other businesses in the US

Well some of that is true. But some of it also isn't true.

You are right that the cash goes to the club (after costs), and you are right that the owners will decide what is best to do with it. You are right they could take a dividend IF a profit is made that financial year, and it can only be a portion of that profit. but they wouldn't do that for various reasons I would happily go into if you wanted to know.

But you are wrong in terms of getting their investment back, money cannot be taken out of the club to cover such things as it is not the club's debt or responsibility to service. They also cannot transfer the money to their holding company (in Delaware), they could redirect their dividend there but the transfer fee the club earned would stay with Swansea City plc.

Straight question which requires a straight answer Roathie.........do you think your beloved team are in serious financial grief?

Just because they sell an academy player for 4 million - you shouldnt assume that the money will go to the academy. It will go into the coffers of the club - and the owners will decide what they do with the money. Like getting their investment back, paying themselves a dividend or even transferring the money back to the parent company - to help out their other businesses in the US

Well some of that is true. But some of it also isn't true.

You are right that the cash goes to the club (after costs), and you are right that the owners will decide what is best to do with it. You are right they could take a dividend IF a profit is made that financial year, and it can only be a portion of that profit. but they wouldn't do that for various reasons I would happily go into if you wanted to know.

But you are wrong in terms of getting their investment back, money cannot be taken out of the club to cover such things as it is not the club's debt or responsibility to service. They also cannot transfer the money to their holding company (in Delaware), they could redirect their dividend there but the transfer fee the club earned would stay with Swansea City plc.

Straight question which requires a straight answer Roathie.........do you think your beloved team are in serious financial grief?

In terms of what? Will we be able to splash the cash in the transfer market? No, certainly not.

Do I think we are in actual financial danger, in terms of not being able to service costs. No.

Essentially a reset to pre-Premier League days but with a few more assets. Obviously the likes of Ayew and co will be removed from the wage bill before that. Focus on the loan market and cut our cloth accordingly.

Just because they sell an academy player for 4 million - you shouldnt assume that the money will go to the academy. It will go into the coffers of the club - and the owners will decide what they do with the money. Like getting their investment back, paying themselves a dividend or even transferring the money back to the parent company - to help out their other businesses in the US

Well some of that is true. But some of it also isn't true.

You are right that the cash goes to the club (after costs), and you are right that the owners will decide what is best to do with it. You are right they could take a dividend IF a profit is made that financial year, and it can only be a portion of that profit. but they wouldn't do that for various reasons I would happily go into if you wanted to know.

But you are wrong in terms of getting their investment back, money cannot be taken out of the club to cover such things as it is not the club's debt or responsibility to service. They also cannot transfer the money to their holding company (in Delaware), they could redirect their dividend there but the transfer fee the club earned would stay with Swansea City plc.

Straight question which requires a straight answer Roathie.........do you think your beloved team are in serious financial grief?

In terms of what? Will we be able to splash the cash in the transfer market? No, certainly not.

Do I think we are in actual financial danger, in terms of not being able to service costs. No.

Essentially a reset to pre-Premier League days but with a few more assets. Obviously the likes of Ayew and co will be removed from the wage bill before that. Focus on the loan market and cut our cloth accordingly.

That's a fair response to a straight question. Here's another one, do you think the Swansea "reset" will end up with you dropping down a division or 2?

That's a fair response to a straight question. Here's another one, do you think the Swansea "reset" will end up with you dropping down a division or 2?

Again I would need to clarify what time period you are talking about before giving an answer.

For example we will have more chance of promotion than relegation for the foreseeable future, much like yourselves in that respect. But also much like yourselves, relegation will probably be an inevitability at some point in the future.

Neither of us are big enough clubs to ensure that.

That's a fair response to a straight question. Here's another one, do you think the Swansea "reset" will end up with you dropping down a division or 2?

Again I would need to clarify what time period you are talking about before giving an answer.

For example we will have more chance of promotion than relegation for the foreseeable future, much like yourselves in that respect. But also much like yourselves, relegation will probably be an inevitability at some point in the future.

Neither of us are big enough clubs to ensure that.

The time period I was thinking was in the next 2 seasons, this one and the next.

I don't agree with your sentiment that we are more or less "equal" clubs. Without getting into a tit for tat argument Rothie, we've had a few!!, I honestly believe we are at least 100% more than you........but possibly greater than that. That statement is not a wind up, it's what I genuinely believe.

Just because they sell an academy player for 4 million - you shouldnt assume that the money will go to the academy. It will go into the coffers of the club - and the owners will decide what they do with the money. Like getting their investment back, paying themselves a dividend or even transferring the money back to the parent company - to help out their other businesses in the US

Well some of that is true. But some of it also isn't true.

You are right that the cash goes to the club (after costs), and you are right that the owners will decide what is best to do with it. You are right they could take a dividend IF a profit is made that financial year, and it can only be a portion of that profit. but they wouldn't do that for various reasons I would happily go into if you wanted to know.

But you are wrong in terms of getting their investment back, money cannot be taken out of the club to cover such things as it is not the club's debt or responsibility to service. They also cannot transfer the money to their holding company (in Delaware), they could redirect their dividend there but the transfer fee the club earned would stay with Swansea City plc.

If you are the Director of a company - then you can do what you want within Company Law with regards to your Ltd Company as long as it is within the Articles of Association etc.
There is nothing to stop them loaning money to the club and then have a payback scheme with stupid interest rates like Scam Hammam did. The Glaziers did the same at Man Utd, the money they raised to buy the club was then used to saddle the club with a debt. Loads of ways you can slice that cake up.

As you know I guess, there are 3 ways you can get money out of a company - Salary , Expenses and Dividends. You can get money into a company via invoices and loans inward bound.

A mate's son is with the Swansea academy, they went there because of the facilities and status etc.
In all honesty I couldnt really care less what they do with their academy or whether it's downgraded - feel sorry for anyone who is getting laid off though.

Time will tell, but things will look a whole lot different down the liberty come the end of next season (as they will at lots of clubs)

The time period I was thinking was in the next 2 seasons, this one and the next.

I don't agree with your sentiment that we are more or less "equal" clubs. Without getting into a tit for tat argument Rothie, we've had a few!!, I honestly believe we are at least 100% more than you........but possibly greater than that. That statement is not a wind up, it's what I genuinely believe.

Then the answer to that is no.

It’s been done to death and incredibly boring so can’t really be bothered to get into the whole who’s club is bigger than the other malarkey. You think your club is, I think my club is. We aren’t going to agree on that, clearly. I am more than willing to let achievements in living memory and the present to speak for itself on that front.

If you are the Director of a company - then you can do what you want within Company Law with regards to your Ltd Company as long as it is within the Articles of Association etc.

No, you can’t. You are confusing ownership with a directorship. A director can have a seat on the board with as little as 5% shares, that doesn’t give that director the ability to do what he/she wants. The Swansea ownership model is made up of many differing shareholders and not one “owner” as such.

There is nothing to stop them loaning money to the club and then have a payback scheme with stupid interest rates like Scam Hammam did. The Glaziers did the same at Man Utd, the money they raised to buy the club was then used to saddle the club with a debt. Loads of ways you can slice that cake up.

There definitely is something to stop them. It’s called unfair prejudice and any sort of high interest loans which increased the clubs debt and thus devaluation of shares can (and would be) something that would end up in the courts where the remedy would be the forced sale of the prejudiced parties shares at a very agreeable price. Not to mention it’s counter productive, the investment was £100m, the only way they will get anything close to that back is after a Premier League resale. Hamstringing the club and its progression prospects for a couple of hundred grand in interest is not something a venture capitalist would do.

As you know I guess, there are 3 ways you can get money out of a company - Salary , Expenses and Dividends. You can get money into a company via invoices and loans inward bound.

You are talking a successful company. A Championship club with expenses exceeding income is not something you can really take any money out of, and again it would be defeating the objective if they did. Which is why they haven’t and most certainly won’t.

A mate's son is with the Swansea academy, they went there because of the facilities and status etc.
In all honesty I couldnt really care less what they do with their academy or whether it's downgraded - feel sorry for anyone who is getting laid off though.

The facilities don’t change with an academy status downgrade. The downgrade means you can’t look nationwide for young talent and it limits the educational hours on the premises for the players. That’s pretty much it.

Time will tell, but things will look a whole lot different down the liberty come the end of next season (as they will at lots of clubs)

No Championship clubs will be in a good predicament come next season, or very few anyway. That’s life.

The time period I was thinking was in the next 2 seasons, this one and the next.

I don't agree with your sentiment that we are more or less "equal" clubs. Without getting into a tit for tat argument Rothie, we've had a few!!, I honestly believe we are at least 100% more than you........but possibly greater than that. That statement is not a wind up, it's what I genuinely believe.

Then the answer to that is no.

It’s been done to death and incredibly boring so can’t really be bothered to get into the whole who’s club is bigger than the other malarkey. You think your club is, I think my club is. We aren’t going to agree on that, clearly. I am more than willing to let achievements in living memory and the present to speak for itself on that front.

I agree Swansea is a bigger club especially if you ignore catchment area, stadium size, past attendances and stadium ownership

The time period I was thinking was in the next 2 seasons, this one and the next.

I don't agree with your sentiment that we are more or less "equal" clubs. Without getting into a tit for tat argument Rothie, we've had a few!!, I honestly believe we are at least 100% more than you........but possibly greater than that. That statement is not a wind up, it's what I genuinely believe.

Then the answer to that is no.

It’s been done to death and incredibly boring so can’t really be bothered to get into the whole who’s club is bigger than the other malarkey. You think your club is, I think my club is. We aren’t going to agree on that, clearly. I am more than willing to let achievements in living memory and the present to speak for itself on that front.

I agree Swansea is a bigger club especially if you ignore catchment area, stadium size, past attendances and stadium ownership

Owning a stadium doesn’t mean anything. Man City don’t own their stadium, neither do Inter Milan.

Your catchment area is our catchment area, we got Ben Cabango from the Cardiff area.

Attendances are skewed by capacity. Newcastle had bigger attendances than Liverpool for years and Villa have bigger attendances than Juventus.

But apart from that... aye.

Yea but Liverpool sell out their ground. When was the last time Swansea had a sell out?

Yea but Liverpool sell out their ground. When was the last time Swansea had a sell out?

When yanks took over!

I reset my living memory last year, and the jacks haven’t sold out the ground in my lifetime..

If they had just invested some of the cash they made from selling some of the academy players instead of filtering it out of the club they would be able to afford to keep it.

You do wonder where the money from all the sales as gone yes got running costs but are they so high that they need to cut the academic? Its the thing that as given them players and money to improve club?

£80mill+ in player sales and parachute payments alone last season. Massive amounts of money. Surely they should be in a better position than what they are??

even when they started off in the premier league they needed player sales to balance the books... and as the years have rolled on they spent an absolute fortune on players that didnt work out trying to stay there, a lot of that money on spread fees which they in some cases are still paying... during their relegation season they had 62 million pounds worth of players who had not worked out on loan elsewhere... i think the premier league money sounds an awful lot, but the minute you get there everyone { mostly players and agents } want to take it off you...

If they had just invested some of the cash they made from selling some of the academy players instead of filtering it out of the club they would be able to afford to keep it.

You do wonder where the money from all the sales as gone yes got running costs but are they so high that they need to cut the academic? Its the thing that as given them players and money to improve club?

£80mill+ in player sales and parachute payments alone last season. Massive amounts of money. Surely they should be in a better position than what they are??

even when they started off in the premier league they needed player sales to balance the books... and as the years have rolled on they spent an absolute fortune on players that didnt work out trying to stay there, a lot of that money on spread fees which they in some cases are still paying... during their relegation season they had 62 million pounds worth of players who had not worked out on loan elsewhere... i think the premier league money sounds an awful lot, but the minute you get there everyone { mostly players and agents } want to take it off you...

Totally agree the gulf in class in the Prem is massive and costly

The time period I was thinking was in the next 2 seasons, this one and the next.

I don't agree with your sentiment that we are more or less "equal" clubs. Without getting into a tit for tat argument Rothie, we've had a few!!, I honestly believe we are at least 100% more than you........but possibly greater than that. That statement is not a wind up, it's what I genuinely believe.

Then the answer to that is no.

It’s been done to death and incredibly boring so can’t really be bothered to get into the whole who’s club is bigger than the other malarkey. You think your club is, I think my club is. We aren’t going to agree on that, clearly. I am more than willing to let achievements in living memory and the present to speak for itself on that front.

I agree Swansea is a bigger club especially if you ignore catchment area, stadium size, past attendances and stadium ownership

Owning a stadium doesn’t mean anything. Man City don’t own their stadium, neither do Inter Milan.

Your catchment area is our catchment area, we got Ben Cabango from the Cardiff area.

Attendances are skewed by capacity. Newcastle had bigger attendances than Liverpool for years and Villa have bigger attendances than Juventus.

But apart from that... aye.

Our new stadium capacity is greater than your record attendance

The time period I was thinking was in the next 2 seasons, this one and the next.

I don't agree with your sentiment that we are more or less "equal" clubs. Without getting into a tit for tat argument Rothie, we've had a few!!, I honestly believe we are at least 100% more than you........but possibly greater than that. That statement is not a wind up, it's what I genuinely believe.

Then the answer to that is no.

It’s been done to death and incredibly boring so can’t really be bothered to get into the whole who’s club is bigger than the other malarkey. You think your club is, I think my club is. We aren’t going to agree on that, clearly. I am more than willing to let achievements in living memory and the present to speak for itself on that front.

I agree Swansea is a bigger club especially if you ignore catchment area, stadium size, past attendances and stadium ownership

Owning a stadium doesn’t mean anything. Man City don’t own their stadium, neither do Inter Milan.

Your catchment area is our catchment area, we got Ben Cabango from the Cardiff area.

Attendances are skewed by capacity. Newcastle had bigger attendances than Liverpool for years and Villa have bigger attendances than Juventus.

But apart from that... aye.

Our new stadium capacity is greater than your record attendance

Now that's low

If they had just invested some of the cash they made from selling some of the academy players instead of filtering it out of the club they would be able to afford to keep it.

You do wonder where the money from all the sales as gone yes got running costs but are they so high that they need to cut the academic? Its the thing that as given them players and money to improve club?

£80mill+ in player sales and parachute payments alone last season. Massive amounts of money. Surely they should be in a better position than what they are??

even when they started off in the premier league they needed player sales to balance the books... and as the years have rolled on they spent an absolute fortune on players that didnt work out trying to stay there, a lot of that money on spread fees which they in some cases are still paying... during their relegation season they had 62 million pounds worth of players who had not worked out on loan elsewhere... i think the premier league money sounds an awful lot, but the minute you get there everyone { mostly players and agents } want to take it off you...

What you you mean by your first sentence? That’s not true.

Upon promotion, it triggered everybodies promotion bonuses, prior to that we were living within our means. We didn’t need to sell anyone in order to service those promotion bonuses, as they were offset against Premier League income.

I believe we went on to spend £12m on players in that first year or something to that affect. Don’t think we sold anyone from memory.

But yes you are right Premier League money doesn’t make you rich, it gives you enough money to try to stay there an extra season. The better you manage it the longer that may be.

Our new stadium capacity is greater than your record attendance

Your stadium is of similar size to MK Dons.

And like MK Dons in order to be seen as a big club you have to actually achieve things that people are alive to witness.

Our new stadium capacity is greater than your record attendance

Your stadium is of similar size to MK Dons.

And like MK Dons in order to be seen as a big club you have to actually achieve things that people are alive to witness.[

Says you. Your opinion only, but I feel you’re recent excursion in the limelight will be forgotten by most as you go bouncing down the league’s.
Got a good feeling about your shitty little club and it’s financial state as the yanks wade in.

Go and read planet swamp as most of your own fans feel it too.

No one gives two fcuks about your club on here.

You won nothing in the Prem (except for the johnsons paint/windscreen wiper vans second rate cup)
The last three years we all watched you hanging by your teeth.
In the actual prem you won nothing. A competition where the likes of Leicester showed how it’s done .

What you did achieve though is the attention of the yanks, god bless em .

Says you. Your opinion only, but I feel you’re recent excursion in the limelight will be forgotten by most as you go bouncing down the league’s.
Got a good feeling about your shitty little club and it’s financial state as the yanks wade in.

Go and read planet swamp as most of your own fans feel it too.

No one gives two fcuks about your club on here.

You won nothing in the Prem (except for the johnsons paint/windscreen wiper vans second rate cup)
The last three years we all watched you hanging by your teeth.
In the actual prem you won nothing. A competition where the likes of Leicester showed how it’s done .

What you did achieve though is the attention of the yanks, god bless em .

Well it's not really an opinion that you are not a big club due to the size of a stadium or if you own it or not, I have given MK Dons as an example to prove that is the case and also the myriad of global mega clubs that don't own their stadium.. or indeed have a big one for that matter. Neither have much impact on the size of a club and success trumps all.

What people think and feel doesn't matter, whether that is on here or on planetswans. What matters is what happens. I also disagree nobody cares about Swansea on here, if they didn't then I wouldn't be here. Your most popular threads seem to be Swansea related.

I am not sure what you mean about not winning anything whilst in the Premier League. We won the League Cup, after knocking out the holders over 2 legs and then the reigning European Champions over 2 legs which qualified us for Europe. Achieved multiple top 10 finishes (including finishing 8th). We have had more success in the last 10 years than most clubs in Britain.

But we don't have to agree of course

Says you. Your opinion only, but I feel you’re recent excursion in the limelight will be forgotten by most as you go bouncing down the league’s.
Got a good feeling about your shitty little club and it’s financial state as the yanks wade in.

Go and read planet swamp as most of your own fans feel it too.

No one gives two fcuks about your club on here.

You won nothing in the Prem (except for the johnsons paint/windscreen wiper vans second rate cup)
The last three years we all watched you hanging by your teeth.
In the actual prem you won nothing. A competition where the likes of Leicester showed how it’s done .

What you did achieve though is the attention of the yanks, god bless em .

Well it's not really an opinion that you are not a big club due to the size of a stadium or if you own it or not, I have given MK Dons as an example to prove that is the case and also the myriad of global mega clubs that don't own their stadium.. or indeed have a big one for that matter. Neither have much impact on the size of a club and success trumps all.

What people think and feel doesn't matter, whether that is on here or on planetswans. What matters is what happens. I also disagree nobody cares about Swansea on here, if they didn't then I wouldn't be here. Your most popular threads seem to be Swansea related.

I am not sure what you mean about not winning anything whilst in the Premier League. We won the League Cup, after knocking out the holders over 2 legs and then the reigning European Champions over 2 legs which qualified us for Europe. Achieved multiple top 10 finishes (including finishing 8th). We have had more success in the last 10 years than most clubs in Britain.

But we don't have to agree of course [/quote

There was a big conversation about how well we had done (so much better than you) in the FA Cup over the years.
But you were banging on about not winning it when we lost in the final. You were saying about, if you don't win it it counts for nothing. That being the case, you did nothing in the premier league. You won nothing. Leicester did and will be remembered for it.
Oh and that lesser cup you won....Who did you beat in the final....

There was a big conversation about how well we had done (so much better than you) in the FA Cup over the years.
But you were banging on about not winning it when we lost in the final. You were saying about, if you don't win it it counts for nothing. That being the case, you did nothing in the premier league. You won nothing. Leicester did and will be remembered for it.
Oh and that lesser cup you won....Who did you beat in the final....

I don't remember that conversation but yes, in terms of Cup competitions that is of course true. Nobody remembers the losing team. While we were in the Premier League we won a major trophy. Not sure what your point is tbh

There was a big conversation about how well we had done (so much better than you) in the FA Cup over the years.
But you were banging on about not winning it when we lost in the final. You were saying about, if you don't win it it counts for nothing. That being the case, you did nothing in the premier league. You won nothing. Leicester did and will be remembered for it.
Oh and that lesser cup you won....Who did you beat in the final....

I don't remember that conversation but yes, in terms of Cup competitions that is of course true. Nobody remembers the losing team. While we were in the Premier League we won a major trophy. Not sure what your point is tbh

My point is, whilst in the premier league you never won it.

So you won nothing. (never got to top six)

The cup competition is not the premier league.

We all have different opinions, most on here will see you as second city small council, rusting stadium club. Yes you had your time in the limelight (although you became strugglers there for 3 years) but you are no more now, than what I have just stated.
End of.

My point is, whilst in the premier league you never won it.

So you won nothing. (never got to top six)

The cup competition is not the premier league.

We all have different opinions, most on here will see you as second city small council, rusting stadium club. Yes you had your time in the limelight (although you became strugglers there for 3 years) but you are no more now, than what I have just stated.
End of.

Who is saying we won the Premier League? I don't get your point at all.

While in the Premier League and all the exposure that gives, especially for the top half clubs, we won the League Cup. Clubs are judged on such successes.

Not sure what you mean by struggled the last 3 years. We finished 12th the first of those 3 year, joint on points with Everton and 3 points behind Chelsea. The year after we finished 15th which is better than anything you have been able to dream of so far in your two attempts and yes the last year resembled your usual efforts and we were relegated.