Millwall players carry on from last season

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Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Forever Blue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:42 pm

Millwall players all refuse to do the knee today, exactly like they did in their last few games last season.

You have to respect their decision and no one should be forced to do it.


And in my opinion it needs to stop being forced on everyone in all sports.


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Millwall players carry on from last season

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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:58 pm

Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Forever Blue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:05 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:



Sol Bamba was spot on and I don’t believe half the country know why they are doing it.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:08 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:



Sol Bamba was spot on and I don’t believe half the country know why they are doing it.

Most of the country ain’t got a clue what BLM are all about or who backs and funds them.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:12 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:

2 posts and someone's already mentioned Marxism. Shock.
As you seem to be one of the most prominent anti kneeling/blm people can I ask you some questions?

1) What would you say Marxism is?
2) What about Marxism do you think is bad?
3) Why do you equate blm with Marxism?
4) Why do you think someone kneeling makes them a Marxist?
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:12 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:

2 posts and someone's already mentioned Marxism. Shock.
As you seem to be one of the most prominent anti kneeling/blm people can I ask you some questions?

1) What would you say Marxism is? Communism
2) What about Marxism do you think is bad? Where has communism actually ever worked and it is responsible for more mass murders than Nazism
3) Why do you equate blm with Marxism? Because that is what they are check out there web page they are Marxists 100% there words not mine Because that is there’s and that is what they believe in.
4) Why do you think someone kneeling makes them a Marxist? It’s a BLM thing it’s represented to them
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:19 pm

So also to answer why supporting BLM why does it make them a Marxist ? Well it’s a bit like me saying you are supporting the Brexit party why does it make someone a Brexiteer ? Hmmmm
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby rumpo kid » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:27 pm

I’ve seen Marxism at work in East Germany. All I can say is that it was grim - very grim. If a Govt hated it’s people very much, then that was it. They were so poor it was pitiful, especially in the countryside. They hated it, and that’s why it fell.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby rumpo kid » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:30 pm

I should add, to BLM and the fools supporting it, they should understand what it is, and cut out the wilful naivety.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby thomasblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 pm

It seems to me the issue surrounding this is the logo , slogan and group

I dont think anybody disagrees that the lives of black people matter

The disagreement comes when people support black lives matter the group and the slovan which is tarnished.

If the football authorities and people in general promoted a different slogan with the same message and distanced themselves from BLM then we wouldn't be having all these divisive issues.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:39 pm

rumpo kid wrote:I’ve seen Marxism at work in East Germany. All I can say is that it was grim - very grim. If a Govt hated it’s people very much, then that was it. They were so poor it was pitiful, especially in the countryside. They hated it, and that’s why it fell.

And China and how they implemented it. Shows so much in common with BLM destroying monuments etc suppressing free speech look it up
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby cardiff 74 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:46 pm

If I’m honest that should be stopped now if I was playing I wouldn’t do it either the point has been made now so they shouldn’t do it the blm wernt out protesting when one of there own did those stabbings in birmingham I wonder why
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby frazier » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:48 pm

I remember talking to two Albanian blokes in a pub in London, they lived under the marxist regime of Enver Hoxha in Albania, they told me some horror stories, friends and family executed for being Christian/Muslim, any religion was crushed as Hoxha created a total atheist state, men jailed for having facial hair, sideburns too long, again because it supposedly represented religious beliefs, and the most bizarre was people jailed for wearing jeans because it displayed western traits.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:51 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:

2 posts and someone's already mentioned Marxism. Shock.
As you seem to be one of the most prominent anti kneeling/blm people can I ask you some questions?

1) What would you say Marxism is? Communism
2) What about Marxism do you think is bad? Where has communism actually ever worked and it is responsible for more mass murders than Nazism
3) Why do you equate blm with Marxism? Because that is what they are check out there web page they are Marxists 100% there words not mine Because that is there’s and that is what they believe in.
4) Why do you think someone kneeling makes them a Marxist? It’s a BLM thing it’s represented to them

1) Wrong. Similar yes, but they are different and shouldn't be lumped together.
2) Irrelevant due to question 1s answer although I would love to see your figures on that. (Including capitalism as well if you could)
3) https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/ I'm looking but can't see anything.
4) Again, question 3 has nullified this answer.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:46 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:

2 posts and someone's already mentioned Marxism. Shock.
As you seem to be one of the most prominent anti kneeling/blm people can I ask you some questions?

1) What would you say Marxism is? Communism
2) What about Marxism do you think is bad? Where has communism actually ever worked and it is responsible for more mass murders than Nazism
3) Why do you equate blm with Marxism? Because that is what they are check out there web page they are Marxists 100% there words not mine Because that is there’s and that is what they believe in.
4) Why do you think someone kneeling makes them a Marxist? It’s a BLM thing it’s represented to them

1) Wrong. Similar yes, but they are different and shouldn't be lumped together.
2) Irrelevant due to question 1s answer although I would love to see your figures on that. (Including capitalism as well if you could)
3) https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/ I'm looking but can't see anything.
4) Again, question 3 has nullified this answer.

Will answer most later as I have grandkids here but that is the classic communism hogwash. You haven’t tried this communism or this Marxism. Yes they are different but not much and both just as dangerous.
Ohh how communism sounds so good on paper equal to all. But the truth is dangerously different.
Millions have been murdered in the name of communism and the people kept it poverty apart from the rulers.
Chernobyl happened because of communism.
During the Chinese uprising it shows so much similarities to how the world is going churches burnt down Christians being demonised, statues toppled, people shamed, they rounded up people put signs over there heads because they didn’t agree with them.
Tell me where communism or Liberalism has ever worked and worked well ?
I gather you are young and have this image in your head of how communism worked. Remember being in college and working in a University where professors even back then was spreading and brainwashing students into communism.
Even I thought this is the world I want to live under but soon moved into the real world and it showed me how dangerous communism is.
Hungary lived under Nazi rule and after the war Russia imposed communism. Now there is a museum in Budepest that is down to what happens to them under communism and it’s a whole lot worse than was under the Nazis.
I have a video on my phone of survivors begging people never to be duped by communism and the guy was in tears with his message.
Communism Marxism is just as evil as the Nazis was and it should never see the light of day.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby rumpo kid » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:27 pm

Yep.. Josh’s answers do appear to come out of a book, allied to an imaginary utopia. It’s failed every time. DDR guards would gun you down if you tried to leave. Yeah, let’s vote for that..
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Big Hill Blue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:42 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Exactly chief it’s a sheep thing or as Sol Bamba says it’s the latest craze. But I want to know do the players know why they are doing it and the highly offensive Black power fist ?
If they don’t then it’s showing a lack of knowledge, maturity, etc.
I would love to hear from just one player especially Junior to explain why he thinks Black supremacy is what he wants ? Very hypocritical don’t you think ?
Players that are earning millions and they are supporting Marxism.
I give up :shock: :o :clap:



Sol Bamba was spot on and I don’t believe half the country know why they are doing it.

Most of the country ain’t got a clue what BLM are all about or who backs and funds them.



The vast majority had never heard of BLM until that habitual law breaker died allegedly after being knelt on and not of an overdose later.

Not condoning his death one bit but the outraged have been duped into following BLM erroneously.

Egregious.

They need to wake up.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:40 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) Wrong. Similar yes, but they are different and shouldn't be lumped together.


Communism is the final stage of Marx's Theory of Evolution of Society. Being preceded by Socialism that he perceived to be the natural outgrowth of Capitalism.

As a brief aside, communism has never and can never be achieved on masse beyond small anarchic communes as it requires the dissolution of the authoritarian 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Any society of size requires hierarchy and would cease to function in the absence of some form of leadership structure.

Anyway back to the point at hand, it is not 'lumping them together', communism is at its very definition, the final outcome of Marxist theory.

Nice concise summary of Marx's stages of societal evolution here

http://learneconomicsonline.com/marxist.php

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) Irrelevant due to question 1s answer although I would love to see your figures on that. (Including capitalism as well if you could)


Seeing as we've established it is not irrelevant perhaps you should now answer this?

In answer to your question:

Conservative figures on death rate of the implementation of marxist theories in the 20th century would be 100 million. Wall St Journal did a nice summary here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1510011810

Capitalism on the other hand, is merley an economic system based on individual private property rights, which intrinsically requires a ban on the initiation of violent force.

Unlike Marxism it is not a broader ideology but an economic system. It is impossible to allocate deaths to an economic system.

There are political ideologies (such as imperialism) under which capitalism sits as the primary exonomic system of an ideology, that you could of course attribute deaths to, but you cannot attribute deaths directly to capitalism itself.

If you do not understand that nuance you simply do not understand what capitalism is.


CCFCJosh75 wrote:3) https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/ I'm looking but can't see anything.


This is a new site that is of a splinter group not affiliated to the US group which it actually explicitly states on the site. Given you're looking i thought you might have picked that up.

Black Lives Matter official site

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Interestingly, the text has been sanitized to a degree on the official BLM site and no longer includes the reference to overthrowing an oppressive capitalist regime.

It does however still include the phrase "We disrupt western-prescribed nuclear family structure" which is definitely veering into Marxism as Marx wanted to destroy the nuclear family and replace that with the state.

However, likely as a reaction to the massive backlash BLM has received in the discovery of its Marxist roots it is as i said been cleansed of overt Marxist rehtoric.

So in absence of that lets just go by what the Black lives matter founder says.

"We actually do have an ideological frame we are trained marxists we are super versed on ideological theories."

https://youtu.be/p7C6tNjiRKY

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) Again, question 3 has nullified this answer.


Not really.

BLM have aligned the taking of the knee to their cause capitalising on the widespread coverage Colin Kapernick brought to the gesture shamelessly borrowed from the peaceful protests of MLK Jr and then the act of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyds neck which was attributed initially to his death was woven into the narrative for mass kneeling at protrsts.

In a nod to their marxist roots and belief in political violence they also incorporated the raised fist of the Blank Panthers (an unashamedly black supremecist organisation again founded by Marxists) into their gesture.

The kneel with the raised fist bump is threfore now a unique symbol of BLM.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:50 pm

ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) Wrong. Similar yes, but they are different and shouldn't be lumped together.


Communism is the final stage of Marx's Theory of Evolution of Society. Being preceded by Socialism that he perceived to be the natural outgrowth of Capitalism.

As a brief aside, communism has never and can never be achieved on masse beyond small anarchic communes as it requires the dissolution of the authoritarian 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Any society of size requires hierarchy and would cease to function in the absence of some form of leadership structure.

Anyway back to the point at hand, it is not 'lumping them together', communism is at its very definition, the final outcome of Marxist theory.

Nice concise summary of Marx's stages of societal evolution here

http://learneconomicsonline.com/marxist.php

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) Irrelevant due to question 1s answer although I would love to see your figures on that. (Including capitalism as well if you could)


Seeing as we've established it is not irrelevant perhaps you should now answer this?

In answer to your question:

Conservative figures on death rate of the implementation of marxist theories in the 20th century would be 100 million. Wall St Journal did a nice summary here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1510011810

Capitalism on the other hand, is merley an economic system based on individual private property rights, which intrinsically requires a ban on the initiation of violent force.

Unlike Marxism it is not a broader ideology but an economic system. It is impossible to allocate deaths to an economic system.

There are political ideologies (such as imperialism) under which capitalism sits as the primary exonomic system of an ideology, that you could of course attribute deaths to, but you cannot attribute deaths directly to capitalism itself.

If you do not understand that nuance you simply do not understand what capitalism is.


CCFCJosh75 wrote:3) https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/ I'm looking but can't see anything.


This is a new site that is of a splinter group not affiliated to the US group which it actually explicitly states on the site. Given you're looking i thought you might have picked that up.

Black Lives Matter official site

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Interestingly, the text has been sanitized to a degree on the official BLM site and no longer includes the reference to overthrowing an oppressive capitalist regime.

It does however still include the phrase "We disrupt western-prescribed nuclear family structure" which is definitely veering into Marxism as Marx wanted to destroy the nuclear family and replace that with the state.

However, likely as a reaction to the massive backlash BLM has received in the discovery of its Marxist roots it is as i said been cleansed of overt Marxist rehtoric.

So in absence of that lets just go by what the Black lives matter founder says.

"We actually do have an ideological frame we are trained marxists we are super versed on ideological theories."

https://youtu.be/p7C6tNjiRKY

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) Again, question 3 has nullified this answer.


Not really.

BLM have aligned the taking of the knee to their cause capitalising on the widespread coverage Colin Kapernick brought to the gesture shamelessly borrowed from the peaceful protests of MLK Jr and then the act of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyds neck which was attributed initially to his death was woven into the narrative for mass kneeling at protrsts.

In a nod to their marxist roots and belief in political violence they also incorporated the raised fist of the Blank Panthers (an unashamedly black supremecist organisation again founded by Marxists) into their gesture.

The kneel with the raised fist bump is threfore now a unique symbol of BLM.

Thank you and Amen
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:57 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) Wrong. Similar yes, but they are different and shouldn't be lumped together.


Communism is the final stage of Marx's Theory of Evolution of Society. Being preceded by Socialism that he perceived to be the natural outgrowth of Capitalism.

As a brief aside, communism has never and can never be achieved on masse beyond small anarchic communes as it requires the dissolution of the authoritarian 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Any society of size requires hierarchy and would cease to function in the absence of some form of leadership structure.

Anyway back to the point at hand, it is not 'lumping them together', communism is at its very definition, the final outcome of Marxist theory.

Nice concise summary of Marx's stages of societal evolution here

http://learneconomicsonline.com/marxist.php

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) Irrelevant due to question 1s answer although I would love to see your figures on that. (Including capitalism as well if you could)


Seeing as we've established it is not irrelevant perhaps you should now answer this?

In answer to your question:

Conservative figures on death rate of the implementation of marxist theories in the 20th century would be 100 million. Wall St Journal did a nice summary here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1510011810

Capitalism on the other hand, is merley an economic system based on individual private property rights, which intrinsically requires a ban on the initiation of violent force.

Unlike Marxism it is not a broader ideology but an economic system. It is impossible to allocate deaths to an economic system.

There are political ideologies (such as imperialism) under which capitalism sits as the primary exonomic system of an ideology, that you could of course attribute deaths to, but you cannot attribute deaths directly to capitalism itself.

If you do not understand that nuance you simply do not understand what capitalism is.


CCFCJosh75 wrote:3) https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/ I'm looking but can't see anything.


This is a new site that is of a splinter group not affiliated to the US group which it actually explicitly states on the site. Given you're looking i thought you might have picked that up.

Black Lives Matter official site

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Interestingly, the text has been sanitized to a degree on the official BLM site and no longer includes the reference to overthrowing an oppressive capitalist regime.

It does however still include the phrase "We disrupt western-prescribed nuclear family structure" which is definitely veering into Marxism as Marx wanted to destroy the nuclear family and replace that with the state.

However, likely as a reaction to the massive backlash BLM has received in the discovery of its Marxist roots it is as i said been cleansed of overt Marxist rehtoric.

So in absence of that lets just go by what the Black lives matter founder says.

"We actually do have an ideological frame we are trained marxists we are super versed on ideological theories."

https://youtu.be/p7C6tNjiRKY

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) Again, question 3 has nullified this answer.


Not really.

BLM have aligned the taking of the knee to their cause capitalising on the widespread coverage Colin Kapernick brought to the gesture shamelessly borrowed from the peaceful protests of MLK Jr and then the act of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyds neck which was attributed initially to his death was woven into the narrative for mass kneeling at protrsts.

In a nod to their marxist roots and belief in political violence they also incorporated the raised fist of the Blank Panthers (an unashamedly black supremecist organisation again founded by Marxists) into their gesture.

The kneel with the raised fist bump is threfore now a unique symbol of BLM.

Thank you and Amen

Thought I'd let you deal with important things in life like spending time with the grandkids mate rather than educating the local useful idiot. Hope you had a nice afternoon with them :thumbup:
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Bluehants » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:21 pm

cardiff 74 wrote:If I’m honest that should be stopped now if I was playing I wouldn’t do it either the point has been made now so they shouldn’t do it the blm wernt out protesting when one of there own did those stabbings in birmingham I wonder why


‘One of their own’...what kind of a comment is that? Clearly their point hasn’t been made and this is exactly why they are continuing...100s of years of being treated like 2nd class citizens and people moaning because of 12 weeks of symbolism.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:36 pm

Bluehants wrote:12 weeks of symbolism.


100 + days of BLM symbolism in Portland, Oregan. Ask the locals how thats working out.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:40 pm

ealing_ayatollah wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) Wrong. Similar yes, but they are different and shouldn't be lumped together.


Communism is the final stage of Marx's Theory of Evolution of Society. Being preceded by Socialism that he perceived to be the natural outgrowth of Capitalism.

As a brief aside, communism has never and can never be achieved on masse beyond small anarchic communes as it requires the dissolution of the authoritarian 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Any society of size requires hierarchy and would cease to function in the absence of some form of leadership structure.

Anyway back to the point at hand, it is not 'lumping them together', communism is at its very definition, the final outcome of Marxist theory.

Nice concise summary of Marx's stages of societal evolution here

http://learneconomicsonline.com/marxist.php

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) Irrelevant due to question 1s answer although I would love to see your figures on that. (Including capitalism as well if you could)


Seeing as we've established it is not irrelevant perhaps you should now answer this?

In answer to your question:

Conservative figures on death rate of the implementation of marxist theories in the 20th century would be 100 million. Wall St Journal did a nice summary here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1510011810

Capitalism on the other hand, is merley an economic system based on individual private property rights, which intrinsically requires a ban on the initiation of violent force.

Unlike Marxism it is not a broader ideology but an economic system. It is impossible to allocate deaths to an economic system.

There are political ideologies (such as imperialism) under which capitalism sits as the primary exonomic system of an ideology, that you could of course attribute deaths to, but you cannot attribute deaths directly to capitalism itself.

If you do not understand that nuance you simply do not understand what capitalism is.


CCFCJosh75 wrote:3) https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/ I'm looking but can't see anything.


This is a new site that is of a splinter group not affiliated to the US group which it actually explicitly states on the site. Given you're looking i thought you might have picked that up.

Black Lives Matter official site

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Interestingly, the text has been sanitized to a degree on the official BLM site and no longer includes the reference to overthrowing an oppressive capitalist regime.

It does however still include the phrase "We disrupt western-prescribed nuclear family structure" which is definitely veering into Marxism as Marx wanted to destroy the nuclear family and replace that with the state.

However, likely as a reaction to the massive backlash BLM has received in the discovery of its Marxist roots it is as i said been cleansed of overt Marxist rehtoric.

So in absence of that lets just go by what the Black lives matter founder says.

"We actually do have an ideological frame we are trained marxists we are super versed on ideological theories."

https://youtu.be/p7C6tNjiRKY

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) Again, question 3 has nullified this answer.


Not really.

BLM have aligned the taking of the knee to their cause capitalising on the widespread coverage Colin Kapernick brought to the gesture shamelessly borrowed from the peaceful protests of MLK Jr and then the act of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyds neck which was attributed initially to his death was woven into the narrative for mass kneeling at protrsts.

In a nod to their marxist roots and belief in political violence they also incorporated the raised fist of the Blank Panthers (an unashamedly black supremecist organisation again founded by Marxists) into their gesture.

The kneel with the raised fist bump is threfore now a unique symbol of BLM.

Thank you and Amen

Thought I'd let you deal with important things in life like spending time with the grandkids mate rather than educating the local useful idiot. Hope you had a nice afternoon with them :thumbup:

I did mate thank you very much. We had a really good day as usual and now chilling :thumbright: :ayatollah: :bluescarf:
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby skidemin » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:50 pm

Bluehants wrote:
cardiff 74 wrote:If I’m honest that should be stopped now if I was playing I wouldn’t do it either the point has been made now so they shouldn’t do it the blm wernt out protesting when one of there own did those stabbings in birmingham I wonder why


‘One of their own’...what kind of a comment is that? Clearly their point hasn’t been made and this is exactly why they are continuing...100s of years of being treated like 2nd class citizens and people moaning because of 12 weeks of symbolism.



many of those rioting are white joshettes.. read a book but no idea about the cause ..
the black police officer in this article actually claims there are less minorities within the rioters than there are in the police they are fighting..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tment.html
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:29 pm

ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) Wrong. Similar yes, but they are different and shouldn't be lumped together.


Communism is the final stage of Marx's Theory of Evolution of Society. Being preceded by Socialism that he perceived to be the natural outgrowth of Capitalism.

As a brief aside, communism has never and can never be achieved on masse beyond small anarchic communes as it requires the dissolution of the authoritarian 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Any society of size requires hierarchy and would cease to function in the absence of some form of leadership structure.

Anyway back to the point at hand, it is not 'lumping them together', communism is at its very definition, the final outcome of Marxist theory.

Nice concise summary of Marx's stages of societal evolution here

http://learneconomicsonline.com/marxist.php

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) Irrelevant due to question 1s answer although I would love to see your figures on that. (Including capitalism as well if you could)


Seeing as we've established it is not irrelevant perhaps you should now answer this?

In answer to your question:

Conservative figures on death rate of the implementation of marxist theories in the 20th century would be 100 million. Wall St Journal did a nice summary here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1510011810

Capitalism on the other hand, is merley an economic system based on individual private property rights, which intrinsically requires a ban on the initiation of violent force.

Unlike Marxism it is not a broader ideology but an economic system. It is impossible to allocate deaths to an economic system.

There are political ideologies (such as imperialism) under which capitalism sits as the primary exonomic system of an ideology, that you could of course attribute deaths to, but you cannot attribute deaths directly to capitalism itself.

If you do not understand that nuance you simply do not understand what capitalism is.


CCFCJosh75 wrote:3) https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/ I'm looking but can't see anything.


This is a new site that is of a splinter group not affiliated to the US group which it actually explicitly states on the site. Given you're looking i thought you might have picked that up.

Black Lives Matter official site

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Interestingly, the text has been sanitized to a degree on the official BLM site and no longer includes the reference to overthrowing an oppressive capitalist regime.

It does however still include the phrase "We disrupt western-prescribed nuclear family structure" which is definitely veering into Marxism as Marx wanted to destroy the nuclear family and replace that with the state.

However, likely as a reaction to the massive backlash BLM has received in the discovery of its Marxist roots it is as i said been cleansed of overt Marxist rehtoric.

So in absence of that lets just go by what the Black lives matter founder says.

"We actually do have an ideological frame we are trained marxists we are super versed on ideological theories."

https://youtu.be/p7C6tNjiRKY

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) Again, question 3 has nullified this answer.


Not really.

BLM have aligned the taking of the knee to their cause capitalising on the widespread coverage Colin Kapernick brought to the gesture shamelessly borrowed from the peaceful protests of MLK Jr and then the act of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyds neck which was attributed initially to his death was woven into the narrative for mass kneeling at protrsts.

In a nod to their marxist roots and belief in political violence they also incorporated the raised fist of the Blank Panthers (an unashamedly black supremecist organisation again founded by Marxists) into their gesture.

The kneel with the raised fist bump is threfore now a unique symbol of BLM.

1) I wouldn't say communism is the final outcome of Marx's theory as because Marx died without fully finishing all his work there are now many different types of Marxism. There's orthodox which would fit with communism, but there's also revisionist Marxism and social democracy. There's also many types grouped under them headings as well.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Marxism-the-sa ... sm?share=1
That should help explain a few other differences as well.

2) I'm not a subscriber to that website so can't read what you linked.
People will die in every system. Can you link poverty deaths to a capitalistic society? What about the wars for oil or to boost the economy. As pope Francis says "We are in a world economic system that is not good. A system that in order to survive must make war, as great empires have always done. But since you cannot have a Third World War, you have regional wars. And what does this mean? That arms are made and sold, and in this way the idolatrous economies, the great world economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money, obviously keep their balance sheets in the black."

3) I picked the UK one because that's the most relevant to us and Cardiff City, and also because when it first started there were plenty of comments on here saying things like 'Why are there protests here, America is on the other side of the world'.
As for the founder quote it does beg the question. If the founder believes one thing does that mean everyone involved is automatically the same? If Cardiff City was founded by a Marxist would that make all supporters Marxists?

4) If you say its now a unique symbol of blm then you yourself have to say that it's now not racist or supremacist because it's now separate to any other uses which may or may not have been racist/supremacist. I suppose its similar to how there are swastikas in Asia because its separate to the nazis use of it.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:27 am

CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) I wouldn't say communism is the final outcome of Marx's theory as because Marx died without fully finishing all his work there are now many different types of Marxism. There's orthodox which would fit with communism, but there's also revisionist Marxism and social democracy. There's also many types grouped under them headings as well.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Marxism-the-sa ... sm?share=1
That should help explain a few other differences as well.


Identify one 'communist' society that isn't grounded in Marxist theory.

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) I'm not a subscriber to that website so can't read what you linked.

Apologies I didn't realise it was paywalled.
CCFCJosh75 wrote:People will die in every system. Can you link poverty deaths to a capitalistic society? What about the wars for oil or to boost the economy. As pope Francis says "We are in a world economic system that is not good. A system that in order to survive must make war, as great empires have always done. But since you cannot have a Third World War, you have regional wars. And what does this mean? That arms are made and sold, and in this way the idolatrous economies, the great world economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money, obviously keep their balance sheets in the black."


Again, capitalism isn't a political ideology, it is a system of economics. Wars for oil were US interventionist (modern day imperialism) something I advocate against. Capitalism is not imperialism. Equally capitalism is not Coporatism which is in essence reverse facism.

So no, you cannot link any poverty deaths to capitalistic society. You cannot blame a system of economics on the failings of an over arching ideology.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: I picked the UK one because that's the most relevant to us and Cardiff City, and also because when it first started there were plenty of comments on here saying things like 'Why are there protests here, America is on the other side of the world'.


Fair point, but the site you quoted states on its front page

"Disclaimer: We are not affiliated with either Black Lives Matter USA or political arm of the Black Lives Matter Coalition UK associated and purported to be affiliated with BLM USA".

Also, BLM is a USA organisation established for over a decade. The rhetoric pushed out by BLM UK are repeated parrot fashion from the US. Chanting 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot!' in the UK against a non-armed police force is non-sensical. You can't separate the two. If the owners of the site you linked to are so set on keeping themselves separate from the well established BLM then why not use a different name?

CCFCJosh75 wrote: As for the founder quote it does beg the question. If the founder believes one thing does that mean everyone involved is automatically the same?


If I join a Marxist organisation, or march under their banner, I would rightly be termed a Marxist until I denounced that organisation.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: If Cardiff City was founded by a Marxist would that make all supporters Marxists?


If it's foundational idea was pushing Marxist ideology yes. Fortunatley, we were not built on this premise, neither was anything good in the world ever.

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) If you say its now a unique symbol of blm then you yourself have to say that it's now not racist or supremacist because it's now separate to any other uses which may or may not have been racist/supremacist.


No it is now a unique symbol of the racist supramecist group in BLM. They made it there own in there special racist, black supremacist, marxist way.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: I suppose its similar to how there are swastikas in Asia because its separate to the nazis use of it.


Not really. The analogy would be the swastika as a shape has a broader meaning. The Swatstika on a red flag (borrowed to imitate communism incidently) with a right facing orientation is definitely related to Nazism. It is the amalgamation of more than one aspect that gives it a unique alignment. Same as the amalgamation of various aspects that aligns the BLM kneel with fist pump as a unique alignment.
I'm just a wine drinking monkey that has a penchant for fine bannanas. You can check out my human alter-ego singing and speaking nonsense on the you tube if you like @ https://www.youtube.com/user/sibaronimusic
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:37 am

ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) I wouldn't say communism is the final outcome of Marx's theory as because Marx died without fully finishing all his work there are now many different types of Marxism. There's orthodox which would fit with communism, but there's also revisionist Marxism and social democracy. There's also many types grouped under them headings as well.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Marxism-the-sa ... sm?share=1
That should help explain a few other differences as well.


Identify one 'communist' society that isn't grounded in Marxist theory.

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) I'm not a subscriber to that website so can't read what you linked.

Apologies I didn't realise it was paywalled.
CCFCJosh75 wrote:People will die in every system. Can you link poverty deaths to a capitalistic society? What about the wars for oil or to boost the economy. As pope Francis says "We are in a world economic system that is not good. A system that in order to survive must make war, as great empires have always done. But since you cannot have a Third World War, you have regional wars. And what does this mean? That arms are made and sold, and in this way the idolatrous economies, the great world economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money, obviously keep their balance sheets in the black."


Again, capitalism isn't a political ideology, it is a system of economics. Wars for oil were US interventionist (modern day imperialism) something I advocate against. Capitalism is not imperialism. Equally capitalism is not Coporatism which is in essence reverse facism.

So no, you cannot link any poverty deaths to capitalistic society. You cannot blame a system of economics on the failings of an over arching ideology.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: I picked the UK one because that's the most relevant to us and Cardiff City, and also because when it first started there were plenty of comments on here saying things like 'Why are there protests here, America is on the other side of the world'.


Fair point, but the site you quoted states on its front page

"Disclaimer: We are not affiliated with either Black Lives Matter USA or political arm of the Black Lives Matter Coalition UK associated and purported to be affiliated with BLM USA".

Also, BLM is a USA organisation established for over a decade. The rhetoric pushed out by BLM UK are repeated parrot fashion from the US. Chanting 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot!' in the UK against a non-armed police force is non-sensical. You can't separate the two. If the owners of the site you linked to are so set on keeping themselves separate from the well established BLM then why not use a different name?

CCFCJosh75 wrote: As for the founder quote it does beg the question. If the founder believes one thing does that mean everyone involved is automatically the same?


If I join a Marxist organisation, or march under their banner, I would rightly be termed a Marxist until I denounced that organisation.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: If Cardiff City was founded by a Marxist would that make all supporters Marxists?


If it's foundational idea was pushing Marxist ideology yes. Fortunatley, we were not built on this premise, neither was anything good in the world ever.

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) If you say its now a unique symbol of blm then you yourself have to say that it's now not racist or supremacist because it's now separate to any other uses which may or may not have been racist/supremacist.


No it is now a unique symbol of the racist supramecist group in BLM. They made it there own in there special racist, black supremacist, marxist way.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: I suppose its similar to how there are swastikas in Asia because its separate to the nazis use of it.


Not really. The analogy would be the swastika as a shape has a broader meaning. The Swatstika on a red flag (borrowed to imitate communism incidently) with a right facing orientation is definitely related to Nazism. It is the amalgamation of more than one aspect that gives it a unique alignment. Same as the amalgamation of various aspects that aligns the BLM kneel with fist pump as a unique alignment.


'Identify one 'communist' society that isn't grounded in Marxist theory'. Yes communism does derive from a form of Marxism (orthodox Marxism) but there are other types of Marxism which aren't communist. The original response was that Marxism is communism but only one type could potentially count for that simplistic view. I don't think they should all be lumped together.

What system would you class the UK, America etc as? Then you have to see which people died specifically from the system and not just because the leader was one. Someone earlier said that in Albania people got jailed for having too long facial hair. Is that because of communism or a leader who is communist? I bet you could read 100 books and talk to a thousand experts on what communism is and facial hair would not be mentioned.

You still haven't provided the proof that blm is Marxist (or a racist black supremacist movement) though apart from what the owner said they are, which doesn't automatically make the movement or its followers those things.
Do you think Neil warnock is a racist, Marxist, black supremacist?
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby Sneggyblubird » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm

It's never the theory but always the implementation by people that makes something bad.
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby skidemin » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:38 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:
ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:1) I wouldn't say communism is the final outcome of Marx's theory as because Marx died without fully finishing all his work there are now many different types of Marxism. There's orthodox which would fit with communism, but there's also revisionist Marxism and social democracy. There's also many types grouped under them headings as well.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Marxism-the-sa ... sm?share=1
That should help explain a few other differences as well.


Identify one 'communist' society that isn't grounded in Marxist theory.

CCFCJosh75 wrote:2) I'm not a subscriber to that website so can't read what you linked.

Apologies I didn't realise it was paywalled.
CCFCJosh75 wrote:People will die in every system. Can you link poverty deaths to a capitalistic society? What about the wars for oil or to boost the economy. As pope Francis says "We are in a world economic system that is not good. A system that in order to survive must make war, as great empires have always done. But since you cannot have a Third World War, you have regional wars. And what does this mean? That arms are made and sold, and in this way the idolatrous economies, the great world economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money, obviously keep their balance sheets in the black."


Again, capitalism isn't a political ideology, it is a system of economics. Wars for oil were US interventionist (modern day imperialism) something I advocate against. Capitalism is not imperialism. Equally capitalism is not Coporatism which is in essence reverse facism.

So no, you cannot link any poverty deaths to capitalistic society. You cannot blame a system of economics on the failings of an over arching ideology.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: I picked the UK one because that's the most relevant to us and Cardiff City, and also because when it first started there were plenty of comments on here saying things like 'Why are there protests here, America is on the other side of the world'.


Fair point, but the site you quoted states on its front page

"Disclaimer: We are not affiliated with either Black Lives Matter USA or political arm of the Black Lives Matter Coalition UK associated and purported to be affiliated with BLM USA".

Also, BLM is a USA organisation established for over a decade. The rhetoric pushed out by BLM UK are repeated parrot fashion from the US. Chanting 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot!' in the UK against a non-armed police force is non-sensical. You can't separate the two. If the owners of the site you linked to are so set on keeping themselves separate from the well established BLM then why not use a different name?

CCFCJosh75 wrote: As for the founder quote it does beg the question. If the founder believes one thing does that mean everyone involved is automatically the same?


If I join a Marxist organisation, or march under their banner, I would rightly be termed a Marxist until I denounced that organisation.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: If Cardiff City was founded by a Marxist would that make all supporters Marxists?


If it's foundational idea was pushing Marxist ideology yes. Fortunatley, we were not built on this premise, neither was anything good in the world ever.

CCFCJosh75 wrote:4) If you say its now a unique symbol of blm then you yourself have to say that it's now not racist or supremacist because it's now separate to any other uses which may or may not have been racist/supremacist.


No it is now a unique symbol of the racist supramecist group in BLM. They made it there own in there special racist, black supremacist, marxist way.

CCFCJosh75 wrote: I suppose its similar to how there are swastikas in Asia because its separate to the nazis use of it.


Not really. The analogy would be the swastika as a shape has a broader meaning. The Swatstika on a red flag (borrowed to imitate communism incidently) with a right facing orientation is definitely related to Nazism. It is the amalgamation of more than one aspect that gives it a unique alignment. Same as the amalgamation of various aspects that aligns the BLM kneel with fist pump as a unique alignment.


'Identify one 'communist' society that isn't grounded in Marxist theory'. Yes communism does derive from a form of Marxism (orthodox Marxism) but there are other types of Marxism which aren't communist. The original response was that Marxism is communism but only one type could potentially count for that simplistic view. I don't think they should all be lumped together.

What system would you class the UK, America etc as? Then you have to see which people died specifically from the system and not just because the leader was one. Someone earlier said that in Albania people got jailed for having too long facial hair. Is that because of communism or a leader who is communist? I bet you could read 100 books and talk to a thousand experts on what communism is and facial hair would not be mentioned.

You still haven't provided the proof that blm is Marxist (or a racist black supremacist movement) though apart from what the owner said they are, which doesn't automatically make the movement or its followers those things.
Do you think Neil warnock is a racist, Marxist, black supremacist?



most people rightly associate Marx closely to Communism.. but if Nukes had used the word communism or infact any other word to describe BLMs lesser known objectives .. youd be attempting to nit pick that via google too.. but the important bit is they do have extreme objectives / agendas that are not so clear to Joe Public
the owner of BLM ?
and Cardiff City Football Club is a Football Club not a political group.. and no the fact that the founder was English does not mean we are all English.. like most people i have no idea who he voted for.. but had he also started up a political party with extreme views and you jumped on board you would likely then be called a bartleyist... while others who only followed the football club would not... you wont find that sentence in wiki as its a level of common sense i doubt anyone would think needs explaining..
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Re: Millwall players carry on from last season

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:57 pm

skidemin wrote:most people rightly associate Marx closely to Communism.. but if Nukes had used the word communism or infact any other word to describe BLMs lesser known objectives .. youd be attempting to nit pick that via google too.. but the important bit is they do have extreme objectives / agendas that are not so clear to Joe Public
the owner of BLM ?
and Cardiff City Football Club is a Football Club not a political group.. and no the fact that the founder was English does not mean we are all English.. like most people i have no idea who he voted for.. but had he also started up a political party with extreme views and you jumped on board you would likely then be called a bartleyist... while others who only followed the football club would not... you wont find that sentence in wiki as its a level of common sense i doubt anyone would think needs explaining..


^^^ Perfect summary, I've nothing that can add beyond this :thumbup:
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