Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

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Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Nuclearblue » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:22 pm

Stick with me on this. I have seen with Multiple Sclerosis sometimes the drugs to help patients have worse side effects than the disease itself.
Or certain disease modifying drugs has a risk of mortality in one case it’s 1/400 chance.
These are the choices they are facing and it’s a choice of quality of life over the odds of dying.
Now Covid19 has a mortality rate on average of 0.075% so now we are being told they could stop Cancer treatment if to many cases of Covid occur not deaths but positive results leading to hospital admissions.

Now the question is the same as the examples do you think the death of 0.075% of people override those with cancer ?
The death rate of those with cancer is far higher Than Covid and those with treatment refused will surely face a death sentence.

Also I learned today of hospices in real trouble with a husband of my cousin who has weeks left to live has been refused a place in a hospice not because of space because they no longer have the funds to keep staff on and because of this they have had to refuse any more patients.

What is people’s opinion on this ?
Do you think that they have totally got this wrong or in my mind it is deliberately done this way ?
Please comment on this particular subject not the usual arguments but on the points I have mentioned.
For me the maths does not add up to justify lockdowns and the actions that are being taken to try and control a virus they can never cull.
And does the fact that more people are dying of suicide at the moment than of Covid justify a lockdown ?
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Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:25 pm

Other day figures showed heart deaths were hundreds more than normal death rate! Avoidable Cancer deaths will I suspect be buried for years? I personally know that people are going undiagnosed so not getting treatment until to late.... would have thought learned from initial outbreak that you need to keep covid cases from general ones but no they've shut down hospitals and outpatients again so making the situation even worse than it already is.... its questionable whether the actions taken justify the consequences for the population as a whole! They are now saying there wont be anywhere near death rate as in 1st wave because its affecting younger age group and statistics back this up. So why the clamour to lockdown again?
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby bluesince62 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:34 pm

What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Sven » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:46 pm

bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their gutter level and beat you with experience!"
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby skidemin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:08 am

Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:



hard to believe...
surely if the science is telling them they will need a field hospital it should also be telling them there will not be a need for the millstad as a spectator venue any time soon...
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby skidemin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:17 am

do not agree with conspiracy theories mate... huge over reaction initially followed by an obsession with it..

take a step back and have a real good look at who the conspirators would need to be... Boris , Sturgeon, Drakeford, Gethin , Starmer etc etc.
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby 103 Barmy Army » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:41 am

If the figures are an accurate reflection of Covid, my mate who lost both his mother and father yesterday to the disease whilst holding each other’s hand in a hospital bed is extremely unlucky. I’m not doubting the figures for one second, just highlighting how unlucky the family have been. :thumbup:
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby thomasblue » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:13 am

skidemin wrote:
Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:



hard to believe...
surely if the science is telling them they will need a field hospital it should also be telling them there will not be a need for the millstad as a spectator venue any time soon...


What i don't understand is why don't they just build these nightingale hospitals in some of the massive empty office blocks around the citys where they could slowly be turned into permanent places after this is all over . Surely it has to be a better option than the stadiums where it will all have to be ripped out.

Seems a massive waste of money
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby goats » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:49 am

Said this ages ago, there is bound to be some warehouses around that can be used or offices, most are completely empty at the moment as it is.....can’t believe the Government paid bluestone Half a million a week to rent a space there, like most never even saw a patient. Now there building another one at UHW. Course, it’s not ready.....
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:46 am

skidemin wrote:
Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:



hard to believe...
surely if the science is telling them they will need a field hospital it should also be telling them there will not be a need for the millstad as a spectator venue any time soon...




The big question is why decommision millennium stadium hospital at 8m then build a new 400 bed field hospital at 33m smack in middle of uhw which wont be ready this side xmas if lucky? They know will get swamped with winter coming so Rugby could been played at any ground as no fans all wru need is a pitch with enough room on side lines for 200 people ....... headless chickens spring to mind!
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby PontreBlue » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:55 am

Why they don't just open the field hospitals to treat covid patients there? that way people will covid patients will not be put into hospitals where it spreads so easy. Don't get me started on the track and trace rubbish nurses are having a disciplinary for having the app on their phone make of that what you wish
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby castleblue » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:01 am

Nuclearblue wrote:Stick with me on this. I have seen with Multiple Sclerosis sometimes the drugs to help patients have worse side effects than the disease itself.
Or certain disease modifying drugs has a risk of mortality in one case it’s 1/400 chance.
These are the choices they are facing and it’s a choice of quality of life over the odds of dying.
Now Covid19 has a mortality rate on average of 0.075% so now we are being told they could stop Cancer treatment if to many cases of Covid occur not deaths but positive results leading to hospital admissions.

Now the question is the same as the examples do you think the death of 0.075% of people override those with cancer ?
The death rate of those with cancer is far higher Than Covid and those with treatment refused will surely face a death sentence.

Also I learned today of hospices in real trouble with a husband of my cousin who has weeks left to live has been refused a place in a hospice not because of space because they no longer have the funds to keep staff on and because of this they have had to refuse any more patients.

What is people’s opinion on this ?
Do you think that they have totally got this wrong or in my mind it is deliberately done this way ?
Please comment on this particular subject not the usual arguments but on the points I have mentioned.
For me the maths does not add up to justify lockdowns and the actions that are being taken to try and control a virus they can never cull.
And does the fact that more people are dying of suicide at the moment than of Covid justify a lockdown ?


Nukes I'll try and keep this within the spirit of the questions that you have asked. To try and put some perspective into my answers I need to say that 2 years ago my wife was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer. Her doctors, who have been fantastic, told her at the time that there was no cure for her condition but because of the type of cancer they believed they could offer her a treatment, a new drug, that would help control the progression of the cancer and most importantly give her a good quality of life. Amazingly in December last year, pre covid, her condition had improved so much, her doctors decided to place her on 3 monthly review rather than monthly. Then in late February / early March she went rapidly downhill suffering from severe breathlessness. Having been seen by 4 different consultant who reviewed her x rays and various scans decided that the cancer had returned to her lungs. As a result, and the arrival of Covid, a decision was made to take her off her medication as it reduced her immune system. She was placed on a drug that's been around for years and told to go home and shield and she didn't go outside the house for 5 months, didn't see family and all of that stuff. This had a terrible affect of her general wellbeing mental health etc.

Since early March she has not seen her cancer consultant but she has spoken to him on the telephone twice and her "Treatment" has been an old drug and a blood test every 3 months. In August her consultant told her that blood results indicated tumour markers had dropped by more than half since March which he was over the moon with. However since March she gets tired easily, suffers with breathlessness so much she can no longer work. So did the cancer return or did she have covid, is the tiredness and breathlessness indicators of long covid.

She was taken off the new drug because of the risk from covid and the rules are she cannot be put back on it, the drug is very expensive, but her doctors felt she had to come off it because covid would kill her.

Having been told she had to shield for 5 months she is currently being told there is no need for her to isolate, but Drakeford claims things are so bad we need to go into a 2-3 week, YOU MUST STAY AT HOME, lockdown.

Caerphilly was the "Poster Boy" county for Drakefords "Special Measures" and after 7 weeks the infection rates are no different so now it's "Extra Special Measures" Drakefords "Fire Breaker" lockdown. Not a Circuit Breaker but a Fire Breaker because in Wales we do Fire Breakers. It's f*cking wank. If Caerphilly was in England, God Forbid, we would be in basic measures, HAND, FACE, SPACE with rule of 6 and pub closing at 10pm.

So do I think the maths to justify Drakefords "Extra Special Measures " add up. NO.

It really is time to push back on this fuckwit and I fully intend to do so.


:bluescarf: :bluescarf:
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:18 am

castleblue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:Stick with me on this. I have seen with Multiple Sclerosis sometimes the drugs to help patients have worse side effects than the disease itself.
Or certain disease modifying drugs has a risk of mortality in one case it’s 1/400 chance.
These are the choices they are facing and it’s a choice of quality of life over the odds of dying.
Now Covid19 has a mortality rate on average of 0.075% so now we are being told they could stop Cancer treatment if to many cases of Covid occur not deaths but positive results leading to hospital admissions.

Now the question is the same as the examples do you think the death of 0.075% of people override those with cancer ?
The death rate of those with cancer is far higher Than Covid and those with treatment refused will surely face a death sentence.

Also I learned today of hospices in real trouble with a husband of my cousin who has weeks left to live has been refused a place in a hospice not because of space because they no longer have the funds to keep staff on and because of this they have had to refuse any more patients.

What is people’s opinion on this ?
Do you think that they have totally got this wrong or in my mind it is deliberately done this way ?
Please comment on this particular subject not the usual arguments but on the points I have mentioned.
For me the maths does not add up to justify lockdowns and the actions that are being taken to try and control a virus they can never cull.
And does the fact that more people are dying of suicide at the moment than of Covid justify a lockdown ?


Nukes I'll try and keep this within the spirit of the questions that you have asked. To try and put some perspective into my answers I need to say that 2 years ago my wife was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer. Her doctors, who have been fantastic, told her at the time that there was no cure for her condition but because of the type of cancer they believed they could offer her a treatment, a new drug, that would help control the progression of the cancer and most importantly give her a good quality of life. Amazingly in December last year, pre covid, her condition had improved so much, her doctors decided to place her on 3 monthly review rather than monthly. Then in late February / early March she went rapidly downhill suffering from severe breathlessness. Having been seen by 4 different consultant who reviewed her x rays and various scans decided that the cancer had returned to her lungs. As a result, and the arrival of Covid, a decision was made to take her off her medication as it reduced her immune system. She was placed on a drug that's been around for years and told to go home and shield and she didn't go outside the house for 5 months, didn't see family and all of that stuff. This had a terrible affect of her general wellbeing mental health etc.

Since early March she has not seen her cancer consultant but she has spoken to him on the telephone twice and her "Treatment" has been an old drug and a blood test every 3 months. In August her consultant told her that blood results indicated tumour markers had dropped by more than half since March which he was over the moon with. However since March she gets tired easily, suffers with breathlessness so much she can no longer work. So did the cancer return or did she have covid, is the tiredness and breathlessness indicators of long covid.

She was taken off the new drug because of the risk from covid and the rules are she cannot be put back on it, the drug is very expensive, but her doctors felt she had to come off it because covid would kill her.

Having been told she had to shield for 5 months she is currently being told there is no need for her to isolate, but Drakeford claims things are so bad we need to go into a 2-3 week, YOU MUST STAY AT HOME, lockdown.

Caerphilly was the "Poster Boy" county for Drakefords "Special Measures" and after 7 weeks the infection rates are no different so now it's "Extra Special Measures" Drakefords "Fire Breaker" lockdown. Not a Circuit Breaker but a Fire Breaker because in Wales we do Fire Breakers. It's f*cking wank. If Caerphilly was in England, God Forbid, we would be in basic measures, HAND, FACE, SPACE with rule of 6 and pub closing at 10pm.

So do I think the maths to justify Drakefords "Extra Special Measures " add up. NO.

It really is time to push back on this fuckwit and I fully intend to do so.


:bluescarf: :bluescarf:

So sorry to hear about your wife mate that is bloody awful. And it beggars belief the treatment she has got. Lots of people will be going through the same silently as well.
It’s crazy that they won’t do a face to face consultation with your wife with the chances of death so low in Covid against a cancer which the odds are all to high.
These lockdowns they are giving other names now firebreak etc etc it’s just a a different name and it just isn’t going to work.
This virus started with just one person and spread. For a lockdown to have an effect it would take every single person to be locked down to just slow it down but with England just next door not in lockdown what’s the point of it.
But it’s a virus and it ain’t going away just like influenza so do we just keep on doing this ?
Anyway much love to your wife mate
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:26 am

Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:

Hi Chris
I look on that this way they spent 166 million on the mill Stad and it was never used. So they ripped it all out at another cost. Now they are building another at the Heath at not far off 40 million.
Now if all that isn’t the biggest waste of money ever then I’m gob smacked.
We have seen with many an evil disease they have refused new drugs due to cost then they waste money like this.
So if they are spending the money on a permanent structure at the heath they are now saying Covid is here to stay.
But of coarse Covid has been around for decades anyway so all this sounds bollocks to me.
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby bluesince62 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:00 pm

Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:



I know sven,but at even more cost is my main gripe mate,why didnt they do it at the heath first of all,would have been more sensible??
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:47 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:

Hi Chris
I look on that this way they spent 166 million on the mill Stad and it was never used. So they ripped it all out at another cost. Now they are building another at the Heath at not far off 40 million.
Now if all that isn’t the biggest waste of money ever then I’m gob smacked.
We have seen with many an evil disease they have refused new drugs due to cost then they waste money like this.
So if they are spending the money on a permanent structure at the heath they are now saying Covid is here to stay.
But of coarse Covid has been around for decades anyway so all this sounds bollocks to me.



Its not supposed to be a permanent structure if it is they've got a massive parking problem as it's got 400 beds ! As a point of interest it is being built next to or on the pond!! the only bit of open space at uhw. :o
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:19 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:

Hi Chris
I look on that this way they spent 166 million on the mill Stad and it was never used. So they ripped it all out at another cost. Now they are building another at the Heath at not far off 40 million.
Now if all that isn’t the biggest waste of money ever then I’m gob smacked.
We have seen with many an evil disease they have refused new drugs due to cost then they waste money like this.
So if they are spending the money on a permanent structure at the heath they are now saying Covid is here to stay.
But of coarse Covid has been around for decades anyway so all this sounds bollocks to me.



Its not supposed to be a permanent structure if it is they've got a massive parking problem as it's got 400 beds ! As a point of interest it is being built next to or on the pond!! the only bit of open space at uhw. :o


Why couldn’t they have done it at the old Whitchurch hospital ? It could of been done then left if it was needed. Building a whole new structure what a waste of money. But that is politicians for you they ain’t got a brain cell that even works.
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:32 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
Sven wrote:
bluesince62 wrote:What is even more galling, is they have decommissioned the field hospitals,that were meant to ease the burden on hospitals, £170m pissed away!! :old: :bluebird:

Not quite; the 'new' Nightingale Hospital is being built on Heath Park (next to UHW) to allow the MillStad to be returned to the WRU :thumbright:

Hi Chris
I look on that this way they spent 166 million on the mill Stad and it was never used. So they ripped it all out at another cost. Now they are building another at the Heath at not far off 40 million.
Now if all that isn’t the biggest waste of money ever then I’m gob smacked.
We have seen with many an evil disease they have refused new drugs due to cost then they waste money like this.
So if they are spending the money on a permanent structure at the heath they are now saying Covid is here to stay.
But of coarse Covid has been around for decades anyway so all this sounds bollocks to me.



Its not supposed to be a permanent structure if it is they've got a massive parking problem as it's got 400 beds ! As a point of interest it is being built next to or on the pond!! the only bit of open space at uhw. :o


Why couldn’t they have done it at the old Whitchurch hospital ? It could of been done then left if it was needed. Building a whole new structure what a waste of money. But that is politicians for you they ain’t got a brain cell that even works.


They knew there would be a crush on beds come winter but they still chose to close dragon hospital..... why the fck couldn't they speak to wru to carry on using mill stdm as can use any ground with enough facilities to hold 100 people associated with a game! Headless chickens comes to mind when comes to decision making..
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby maccydee » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:19 pm

Obviously COVID is a thing and is killing people

but

H1N1 killed a lot more people in America than Covid has (currently) and there wasn’t the same reaction. I’ve no idea why.
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:27 pm

maccydee wrote:Obviously COVID is a thing and is killing people

but

H1N1 killed a lot more people in America than Covid has (currently) and there wasn’t the same reaction. I’ve no idea why.



To many so called experts putting in their views saying need to stop pandemic which worked didnt it! Seriously it was open season for companies scientists and anyone else to exploit covid for their own agenda! Look how much money pharmaceutical companies getting ...scientific advisers and laboratories are getting.... and musnt forget consultants (not nhs) getting 7k a day to advise gvmnt in covid ... this is why getting the ott reaction compared to other pandemics..
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby skidemin » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:01 pm

maccydee wrote:Obviously COVID is a thing and is killing people

but

H1N1 killed a lot more people in America than Covid has (currently) and there wasn’t the same reaction. I’ve no idea why.




likewise. Germany has reacted to covid much the same as we have here....

have a read of the report about their 2017 / 18 flu epidemic... which were published before covid came around..

25k Flu deaths compared to their 9k covid..
and 370k covid infections { positive test possibly with no or very mild illness } ... compared to 9 million medical attended Flu cases in 2018
so how come 2018 no meltdown..?
no wonder people are comming up with conspiracy theories as the two reactions are so different...
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Nuclearblue » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:29 pm

Conspiracy theory is just a phrase to make Those that are thinking about what is happening with common sense seem like nut cases. Well to those that think we are just making up conspiracy theories will realise soon that they have been sold a pack of lies
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:49 pm

skidemin wrote:
maccydee wrote:Obviously COVID is a thing and is killing people

but

H1N1 killed a lot more people in America than Covid has (currently) and there wasn’t the same reaction. I’ve no idea why.




likewise. Germany has reacted to covid much the same as we have here....

have a read of the report about their 2017 / 18 flu epidemic... which were published before covid came around..

25k Flu deaths compared to their 9k covid..
and 370k covid infections { positive test possibly with no or very mild illness } ... compared to 9 million medical attended Flu cases in 2018
so how come 2018 no meltdown..?
no wonder people are comming up with conspiracy theories as the two reactions are so different...



Well they'll tell you because of their reaction to covid the deaths are far less than flue epidemic! Plus as I've said there is a lot of people/ companies got vestid interest in making money out of covid more you ramp up its danger the more gvmnts panic more they are willing to pay to get a solution ? I Think £7k a day is good pay day just for giving advice.....Now that's a good conspiracy theory.. :o
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby maccydee » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:56 pm

Thing is my folks have got diabetes and COPD and missing 3/4 of a lung and I’m terrified of them catching it because my sister is a nurse is terrified of them catching it. She has never been terrified before of them catching anything.

Why are people dying in such bad ways if it isn’t anything to worry about?
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby skidemin » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:14 am

maccydee wrote:Thing is my folks have got diabetes and COPD and missing 3/4 of a lung and I’m terrified of them catching it because my sister is a nurse is terrified of them catching it. She has never been terrified before of them catching anything.

Why are people dying in such bad ways if it isn’t anything to worry about?



sorry to hear your parents are not good...
but what do you mean by dying in such bad ways ?
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby skidemin » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:20 am

pembroke allan wrote:
skidemin wrote:
maccydee wrote:Obviously COVID is a thing and is killing people

but

H1N1 killed a lot more people in America than Covid has (currently) and there wasn’t the same reaction. I’ve no idea why.




likewise. Germany has reacted to covid much the same as we have here....

have a read of the report about their 2017 / 18 flu epidemic... which were published before covid came around..

25k Flu deaths compared to their 9k covid..
and 370k covid infections { positive test possibly with no or very mild illness } ... compared to 9 million medical attended Flu cases in 2018
so how come 2018 no meltdown..?
no wonder people are comming up with conspiracy theories as the two reactions are so different...



Well they'll tell you because of their reaction to covid the deaths are far less than flue epidemic! Plus as I've said there is a lot of people/ companies got vestid interest in making money out of covid more you ramp up its danger the more gvmnts panic more they are willing to pay to get a solution ? I Think £7k a day is good pay day just for giving advice.....Now that's a good conspiracy theory.. :o



deffinately mate.. there are people making a fortune out of it..
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Bluebina » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:28 am

skidemin wrote:
maccydee wrote:Obviously COVID is a thing and is killing people

but

H1N1 killed a lot more people in America than Covid has (currently) and there wasn’t the same reaction. I’ve no idea why.




likewise. Germany has reacted to covid much the same as we have here....

have a read of the report about their 2017 / 18 flu epidemic... which were published before covid came around..

25k Flu deaths compared to their 9k covid..
and 370k covid infections { positive test possibly with no or very mild illness } ... compared to 9 million medical attended Flu cases in 2018
so how come 2018 no meltdown..?
no wonder people are comming up with conspiracy theories as the two reactions are so different...


Those figures show that Covid is far more dangerous, due to a massive reaction in Germany with lockdowns distancing, hand washing, masks and all the other measures 9,000 deaths, with possibly 5% of the population getting it or less. Compare that with letting the flu rip no measures at all and allowing it to spread unguarded, go through care homes, no shielding of the weak and elderly and 25,000 deaths.

By those figures, if they allowed Covid to let rip that would be 180,000 deaths, maybe more as their health service would be overrun and unable to cope with the number of people requiring ventilators.

I'm not one for total lockdowns, but I don't believe all this conspiracy and it's only like the flu bollocks, it's a serious illness and we need decent interventions to stop it spreading, mostly reducing indoor contact with poor ventilation when the virus is present in very large numbers, and possibly local short term measures as we had in Wales before yesterdays decision.
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:40 am

Bluebina wrote:
skidemin wrote:
maccydee wrote:Obviously COVID is a thing and is killing people

but

H1N1 killed a lot more people in America than Covid has (currently) and there wasn’t the same reaction. I’ve no idea why.




likewise. Germany has reacted to covid much the same as we have here....

have a read of the report about their 2017 / 18 flu epidemic... which were published before covid came around..

25k Flu deaths compared to their 9k covid..
and 370k covid infections { positive test possibly with no or very mild illness } ... compared to 9 million medical attended Flu cases in 2018
so how come 2018 no meltdown..?
no wonder people are comming up with conspiracy theories as the two reactions are so different...


Those figures show that Covid is far more dangerous, due to a massive reaction in Germany with lockdowns distancing, hand washing, masks and all the other measures 9,000 deaths, with possibly 5% of the population getting it or less. Compare that with letting the flu rip no measures at all and allowing it to spread unguarded, go through care homes, no shielding of the weak and elderly and 25,000 deaths.

By those figures, if they allowed Covid to let rip that would be 180,000 deaths, maybe more as their health service would be overrun and unable to cope with the number of people requiring ventilators.

I'm not one for total lockdowns, but I don't believe all this conspiracy and it's only like the flu bollocks, it's a serious illness and we need decent interventions to stop it spreading, mostly reducing indoor contact with poor ventilation when the virus is present in very large numbers, and possibly local short term measures as we had in Wales before yesterdays decision.



We will go around In circles for next 12mnths once this lockdown is eased how long before next spike? Tgen what lockdown again ? The more you do this the more people will disregard the gvmnts advice! Have you heard about a vaccine past two months? No because it's not as simple as was made out be lucky to have one end of next year even then scientists saying may not be as effective as people think..
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby Bluebina » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:41 am

Nuclearblue wrote:Stick with me on this. I have seen with Multiple Sclerosis sometimes the drugs to help patients have worse side effects than the disease itself.
Or certain disease modifying drugs has a risk of mortality in one case it’s 1/400 chance.
These are the choices they are facing and it’s a choice of quality of life over the odds of dying.
Now Covid19 has a mortality rate on average of 0.075% so now we are being told they could stop Cancer treatment if to many cases of Covid occur not deaths but positive results leading to hospital admissions.

Now the question is the same as the examples do you think the death of 0.075% of people override those with cancer ?
The death rate of those with cancer is far higher Than Covid and those with treatment refused will surely face a death sentence.

Also I learned today of hospices in real trouble with a husband of my cousin who has weeks left to live has been refused a place in a hospice not because of space because they no longer have the funds to keep staff on and because of this they have had to refuse any more patients.

What is people’s opinion on this ?
Do you think that they have totally got this wrong or in my mind it is deliberately done this way ?
Please comment on this particular subject not the usual arguments but on the points I have mentioned.
For me the maths does not add up to justify lockdowns and the actions that are being taken to try and control a virus they can never cull.
And does the fact that more people are dying of suicide at the moment than of Covid justify a lockdown ?


It needs to be controlled so that the NHS can cope, but also the economy and peoples sanity is equally as important, and there is the dilemma all governments are facing.

I think we need some measures, England probably has it about right with a tiered system and areas with massive numbers need more restrictions than other areas with tiny numbers of cases.
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Re: Does Covid actions justify the consequences ?

Postby maccydee » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:33 am

skidemin wrote:
maccydee wrote:Thing is my folks have got diabetes and COPD and missing 3/4 of a lung and I’m terrified of them catching it because my sister is a nurse is terrified of them catching it. She has never been terrified before of them catching anything.

Why are people dying in such bad ways if it isn’t anything to worry about?



sorry to hear your parents are not good...
but what do you mean by dying in such bad ways ?


On a bed hooked up to a machine not able to breathe.
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