My assessment of Neil Harris

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My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Paul Keevil » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:05 pm

Firstly, this is not a critical post. In any job you have people who reach a certain level and plateau out and then you have those who you can see will go on to achieve greater things. Like I said that is not a criticism it is just life. It is the normal working environment - and football is no different.

For me, to achieve promotion, you have to have players who are capable of holding their own in the Premier League and at the very least have a strong group of players who can vastly outperform the rest of the division (i.e. top 2). We dont have that. Again thats not a criticism its just reality.

Outside of my photography stuff I work as a Personal Injury lawyer. I have done for 30 years. I have been a Fee Earner, I have been a Team Manager on several occasions. I have even been an Ops Manager at a small firm. But I have never been a Departmental Manager at a big firm - because I have reached my plateau. And Im comfortable with that.

We have players who are the same. I am not going to name them, they probably know who they are, and realise if we did get promotion first team football in the premier league would be a step too far for them.

And the same goes for the manager. Was Millwall his limit. No, I think he is better than that. A Premier League manager - No, in my opinion I think that is a step too far for him. A mid table championship side - Yes, I think that is his limit and where he plateaus

Like I said this is not a criticism of anyone. Just because you dont reach Premier League status that doesnt mean you are a failure. Far from it - each of them who hold their own in the Championship are success stories because they have achieved things that thousands of others have not!

But for us as a club we need to decide where our capabilities lie. Are we are (1) A club that can hold our own in the Premier League and can attract 33,280 supporters or (2) Are we a club that can hold our own in the championship and that is our level

Personally, I think the first option is where we are at - and accordingly we need to look at our structure

Starting from the top we need a manager who can hold his own in the Premier League - and a manager who can see which players are capable of holding their own in the Premier League (and there are a few in Aston Villa Under 23s!) and we need to have at least 8 of those on board.

Like I said this is not a criticism of those players we have. I know some, if not all, will read this board but (like myself in law) everyone has a peak and its not a failure if you are not premier league quality. For us, as a club, we can hold our own in the Premier League and accordingly only players who can match our ambition should be brought into the club

Just my personal thoughts.
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My assessment of Neil Harris

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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Doyley1927 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:25 pm

Out of interest opinions on Warnock?
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Paul Keevil » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:29 pm

Happy to answer that question

Warnock is a manager with proven experience of getting sides promoted and who I would trust in the premier league more than our present manager
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby bluesince62 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pm

Paul Keevil wrote:Happy to answer that question

Warnock is a manager with proven experience of getting sides promoted and who I would trust in the premier league more than our present manager


Imho,warnock is a top championship manager,that is his plateau,never liked premier league(his words,not mine)and was found wanting when he was there.not a criticism, just my own opinion.
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Doyley1927 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:58 pm

Paul Keevil wrote:Happy to answer that question

Warnock is a manager with proven experience of getting sides promoted and who I would trust in the premier league more than our present manager


What was his plateau?
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Bakedalasker » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:47 pm

I've always believed we are capable of becoming a Premier club.

The best chance I believe we had was when Dave Jones was with us but he blew it. I thought when Tan came along he would be that bit of bite we needed to cross the line and stay there. He is turning out to be a false dawn.

We are now light years away from getting back to where we were with Dave Jones. I feel we are now firmly at the plateau of the ability of our owner and if we want to go higher then we will need a new owner with the knowledge and finance to get us there.
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Ponty Bluebird » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:26 am

Paul Keevil wrote:Firstly, this is not a critical post. In any job you have people who reach a certain level and plateau out and then you have those who you can see will go on to achieve greater things. Like I said that is not a criticism it is just life. It is the normal working environment - and football is no different.

For me, to achieve promotion, you have to have players who are capable of holding their own in the Premier League and at the very least have a strong group of players who can vastly outperform the rest of the division (i.e. top 2). We dont have that. Again thats not a criticism its just reality.

Outside of my photography stuff I work as a Personal Injury lawyer. I have done for 30 years. I have been a Fee Earner, I have been a Team Manager on several occasions. I have even been an Ops Manager at a small firm. But I have never been a Departmental Manager at a big firm - because I have reached my plateau. And Im comfortable with that.

We have players who are the same. I am not going to name them, they probably know who they are, and realise if we did get promotion first team football in the premier league would be a step too far for them.

And the same goes for the manager. Was Millwall his limit. No, I think he is better than that. A Premier League manager - No, in my opinion I think that is a step too far for him. A mid table championship side - Yes, I think that is his limit and where he plateaus

Like I said this is not a criticism of anyone. Just because you dont reach Premier League status that doesnt mean you are a failure. Far from it - each of them who hold their own in the Championship are success stories because they have achieved things that thousands of others have not!

But for us as a club we need to decide where our capabilities lie. Are we are (1) A club that can hold our own in the Premier League and can attract 33,280 supporters or (2) Are we a club that can hold our own in the championship and that is our level

Personally, I think the first option is where we are at - and accordingly we need to look at our structure

Starting from the top we need a manager who can hold his own in the Premier League - and a manager who can see which players are capable of holding their own in the Premier League (and there are a few in Aston Villa Under 23s!) and we need to have at least 8 of those on board.

Like I said this is not a criticism of those players we have. I know some, if not all, will read this board but (like myself in law) everyone has a peak and its not a failure if you are not premier league quality. For us, as a club, we can hold our own in the Premier League and accordingly only players who can match our ambition should be brought into the club

Just my personal thoughts.

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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Sven » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:00 am

Doyley1927 wrote:
Paul Keevil wrote:Happy to answer that question

Warnock is a manager with proven experience of getting sides promoted and who I would trust in the premier league more than our present manager


What was his plateau?

I think he answered that fully (quote) "Warnock is a manager with proven experience of getting sides promoted and who I would trust in the premier league more than our present manager", so what's your point? :?

And (again) are you going to be honest with our other members? ;)
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby oohahhPaulMillar » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:57 am

Interesting post Paul.

My own opinion is that we have a stadium and just about enough committed fans to support a premier league team.

Unfortunately, off the field we just don’t have the structure to maintain a team in the premier league

Player recruitment, Manager recruitment and our Scouting network is no where near good or sophisticated enough

Our academy and player development is miles behind other clubs

Our marketing and sponsorship department is virtually non existent as far as I can see and we have no long term plan or structure in place to sustain a premier league set up

Ideally we should scrap the academy and headhunt the entire Brentford back room staff and recruitment team
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Paul Keevil » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:24 am

I don’t know who that Doyley character is. He only joined on Saturday

Anyway, in response to oohPaulmiller I totally agree with you and this is the bit that annoys me about our club. We do actually have the ability to be a premier league club - but we make stupid decisions. Your right we do need to improve the infrastructure of the club. We do need to bring on board a manager who can handle the premier league and we do need back room staff that know how to run an academy
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Wardy64 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:56 am

We have the support for prem. We don't have the set-up. Until they remove Dalman, we will continue to employ non-football managers. We need a progressive young manager who will attract the type of player we need. The new manager has to put his stamp on the development as well or as someone has said, go the Brentford route and use a stats analyst as part of recruitment. I believe Craig Bellamy is the progressive manager we need as he has all the attributes. I know some disagree but that is my opinion.
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Jock » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:32 am

Wardy64 wrote:We have the support for prem. We don't have the set-up. Until they remove Dalman, we will continue to employ non-football managers. We need a progressive young manager who will attract the type of player we need. The new manager has to put his stamp on the development as well or as someone has said, go the Brentford route and use a stats analyst as part of recruitment. I believe Craig Bellamy is the progressive manager we need as he has all the attributes. I know some disagree but that is my opinion.

What has he done to suggest he’ll be a Premiership level manager?
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Bluegunner » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:55 am

Paul I totally agree with you. I reached board level positions in some of the largest names on the high street, but I never made that final jump into the CEOs chair. The reason was, I could never be ruthless enough stand on everyone's head to achieve my ambitions.
All the top CEOs I worked for (and some were very nice people) had that ruthless streak.

I am no football expert and I have never understood how we can spend money to buy in players to fill obvious gaps but in some cases they rarely get a game.
If it was my money the club were spending on resource that was never used I would be asking some serious questions.

Those of you that have a much better understanding of the game, can you tell me where we have had value for money over the last couple of years and where we have wasted money?
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Doyley1927 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:37 am

Sven wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
Paul Keevil wrote:Happy to answer that question

Warnock is a manager with proven experience of getting sides promoted and who I would trust in the premier league more than our present manager


What was his plateau?

I think he answered that fully (quote) "Warnock is a manager with proven experience of getting sides promoted and who I would trust in the premier league more than our present manager", so what's your point? :?

And (again) are you going to be honest with our other members? ;)


Not at all. Could he get us mid table Prem? Top 6?

He started the talk of plateauing. I do agree. There are distinct levels in every part of sport.
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Doyley1927 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am

Paul Keevil wrote:I don’t know who that Doyley character is. He only joined on Saturday

Anyway, in response to oohPaulmiller I totally agree with you and this is the bit that annoys me about our club. We do actually have the ability to be a premier league club - but we make stupid decisions. Your right we do need to improve the infrastructure of the club. We do need to bring on board a manager who can handle the premier league and we do need back room staff that know how to run an academy


What does it matter if I joined Saturday or in 1984?
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Re: My assessment of Neil Harris

Postby Wade Wilson86 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:45 am

Paul Keevil wrote:I don’t know who that Doyley character is. He only joined on Saturday

Anyway, in response to oohPaulmiller I totally agree with you and this is the bit that annoys me about our club. We do actually have the ability to be a premier league club - but we make stupid decisions. Your right we do need to improve the infrastructure of the club. We do need to bring on board a manager who can handle the premier league and we do need back room staff that know how to run an academy


What ability do we have to be a Prem club? I mean short term we don’t. 3 teams can go up. Are we better than The Jacks, Norwich or Watford? No. That’s without mentioning Brentford, Bournemouth and Reading.

Not a chance in hell are we getting to the Prem this year.

Long term though, we have a billionaire owner sadly with a board of idiots.

Agree with the thread. A young manager is needed. Bellamy was big into the youth team. We have no youth team now. They won their league a few years back!!!
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