OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

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OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby Doyley1927 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:41 am

If and when we get over this pandemic and the inquiries start does anyone else think it will be the end of the Tory party?

So many mistakes. Granted its unprecedented in its scope but austerity led to so many cuts we were not prepared and then mistake after mistake propped up by contracts for the boys. When this all gets broken down I truly believe the Tories will be done for.

I say this as someone who doesn’t want this to happen and hopes that a viable centre right party emerges from it. Although lately Sir Kier has impressed me quite a bit.
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OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby skidemin » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:50 am

Doyley1927 wrote:If and when we get over this pandemic and the inquiries start does anyone else think it will be the end of the Tory party?

So many mistakes. Granted its unprecedented in its scope but austerity led to so many cuts we were not prepared and then mistake after mistake propped up by contracts for the boys. When this all gets broken down I truly believe the Tories will be done for.

I say this as someone who doesn’t want this to happen and hopes that a viable centre right party emerges from it. Although lately Sir Kier has impressed me quite a bit.



and me.... he is always spot on, do what Borris has done only a few hours earlier...those are important hours mate... if him id keep Borris on as an advisor though just to make sure all these ideas of his dont escape me... oh and id bring dominic cummings back... great at being critical of peoples behaviour but is possibly the worse example you can have...oh and Corbs...
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby glas » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:10 pm

hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby Doyley1927 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:31 pm

glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby skidemin » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:39 pm

Doyley1927 wrote:
glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.



i think his point is that a lot of what goes on in Wales is not of their doing...
got to say the torys in Wales have been a bit slow though... when they get wind of what drakeford is about to announce they should be running around looking for a journo to get in first and claim it should have been done 2 hours earlier...
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby Doyley1927 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:51 pm

skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.



i think his point is that a lot of what goes on in Wales is not of their doing...
got to say the torys in Wales have been a bit slow though... when they get wind of what drakeford is about to announce they should be running around looking for a journo to get in first and claim it should have been done 2 hours earlier...


Of course there is the benefit of hindsight piece that Boris doesn’t have which makes his critics look a lot more competent. However he has been overly reactive from the start.

Lockdown announced 23 March. Much later than it should have been deaths start to fall 8 April.

PPE was not of the required standard. This would have been highlighted in a 2016 exercise of the exact thing that happened in 2020 had it not been cancelled due to Austerity. They then scratched round for PPE and (too many for it to be a co-incidence) contracts were given out to friends of the Tory party. Some of that PPE was not up to scratch.

Then the debacle over Christmas.

It was always going to be that the only way out of this was vaccination. That was clear. Yet back go the students to Uni spreading it all over.

I have no idea how Corbyn would have done but I suspect the NHS wouldn’t have been so criminally under funded under Labour.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby skidemin » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:11 pm

Doyley1927 wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.



i think his point is that a lot of what goes on in Wales is not of their doing...
got to say the torys in Wales have been a bit slow though... when they get wind of what drakeford is about to announce they should be running around looking for a journo to get in first and claim it should have been done 2 hours earlier...


Of course there is the benefit of hindsight piece that Boris doesn’t have which makes his critics look a lot more competent. However he has been overly reactive from the start.

Lockdown announced 23 March. Much later than it should have been deaths start to fall 8 April.

PPE was not of the required standard. This would have been highlighted in a 2016 exercise of the exact thing that happened in 2020 had it not been cancelled due to Austerity. They then scratched round for PPE and (too many for it to be a co-incidence) contracts were given out to friends of the Tory party. Some of that PPE was not up to scratch.

Then the debacle over Christmas.

It was always going to be that the only way out of this was vaccination. That was clear. Yet back go the students to Uni spreading it all over.

I have no idea how Corbyn would have done but I suspect the NHS wouldn’t have been so criminally under funded under Labour.



killdown...
March the 23rd we had 67 daily deaths which was the highest at that point.....
March 30th..............it was 374
April 7th it was 1037
April 14th is was 1041
April 21st it was 1166

so no deaths did not start to fall.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby worcester_ccfc » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:41 pm

Absolutely no chance.

People said the same about the Labour Party several times under Corbyn's leadership. As in ineffective as he was as an opposition, I never believed it would be the end of the Labour Party.

In the same way, the Conservative Party will certainly not come to an end because of this. They may have a tough few years ahead as a party, but they'll come through it.


Personally, as a Labour Party member, I wouldn't want it to be the end of the Conservative Party. It is good to have the two main parties as it brings real debate and is healthy for democracy. I can't ever the Liberal Democrats or Nigel Farage's new party being as big as the Conservatives or Labour.

That is why it is crucial that both the Conservative Party and the Labour Party stick around.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby WestCoastBlue » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:54 pm

skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.



i think his point is that a lot of what goes on in Wales is not of their doing...
got to say the torys in Wales have been a bit slow though... when they get wind of what drakeford is about to announce they should be running around looking for a journo to get in first and claim it should have been done 2 hours earlier...


Of course there is the benefit of hindsight piece that Boris doesn’t have which makes his critics look a lot more competent. However he has been overly reactive from the start.

Lockdown announced 23 March. Much later than it should have been deaths start to fall 8 April.

PPE was not of the required standard. This would have been highlighted in a 2016 exercise of the exact thing that happened in 2020 had it not been cancelled due to Austerity. They then scratched round for PPE and (too many for it to be a co-incidence) contracts were given out to friends of the Tory party. Some of that PPE was not up to scratch.

Then the debacle over Christmas.

It was always going to be that the only way out of this was vaccination. That was clear. Yet back go the students to Uni spreading it all over.

I have no idea how Corbyn would have done but I suspect the NHS wouldn’t have been so criminally under funded under Labour.



killdown...
March the 23rd we had 67 daily deaths which was the highest at that point.....
March 30th..............it was 374
April 7th it was 1037
April 14th is was 1041
April 21st it was 1166

so no deaths did not start to fall.


Keep going. What happened to the numbers after April 21st?

April 28th - 969
May 5th - 726
May 12th - 614
May 19th - 500
May 26th - 131

Between the 17th of June and the 12th of October there wasn’t a single day with over 100 Covid deaths.

So 4 weeks after lockdown is announced we see the deaths fall dramatically.

The virus takes 2-3 weeks to kill roughly and it spreads at an exponentially growing rate. Deaths also grow at an exponential rate in accordance with this. Just because Johnson said the magic word “lockdown” it doesn’t mean people with the virus suddenly lost it. Or that the people mingling in bars, clubs, restaurants, shops, pubs, schools, offices, etc suddenly weren’t infectious when they went home that night.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby welshrarebit » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:59 pm

Who would you propose represent the sizeable population whose politics are not left of Centre?

Honest question. I know often political choices are broken down to a popularity contest.
But let’s not forget the ethos of the conservative and labour parties are different.
They may do different things when in office to their core principles. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
However fundamentally labour favour higher taxes. More state intervention and direct redistribution of wealth.
Conservatives fundamentally err towards smaller state lower taxes and indirect redistribution of wealth through economic stimulation via a freer market.
Do they both stand by that? No. But in a nut shell that’s your political dividing line. I believe both groups want the same or similar outcomes. But they differ on the route.

Kier Starmer may well be a saint of a man.
But if you disagree with his policies you aren’t going to vote fir him.

That being said. Has Boris really done things that badly?
We don’t see what’s happening in other countries. Polish hospitals apparently are closing their doors they are so over run. All counties have rates of covid going through tbr roof and are all taking similar precautions.

Boris though single minded determination and despite sclerotic public service organisations, managed to make us first to get the only true thing that can have a chance of regaining us normality. The vaccine. The uk have vaccinate 2.6 million already. That’s a massive number that will only rise as supply increases.
That’s an amazing effort.

Overall we were are actually not worse than our neighbours. Australia and nee Zealand have done really well but they are easier to isolate.

If he isn’t up to the job he will get the conservatives voted out. But it won’t be the end of the conservatives because like them or not. They are the only option for approximately half the population.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby Doyley1927 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:10 pm

skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.



i think his point is that a lot of what goes on in Wales is not of their doing...
got to say the torys in Wales have been a bit slow though... when they get wind of what drakeford is about to announce they should be running around looking for a journo to get in first and claim it should have been done 2 hours earlier...


Of course there is the benefit of hindsight piece that Boris doesn’t have which makes his critics look a lot more competent. However he has been overly reactive from the start.

Lockdown announced 23 March. Much later than it should have been deaths start to fall 8 April.

PPE was not of the required standard. This would have been highlighted in a 2016 exercise of the exact thing that happened in 2020 had it not been cancelled due to Austerity. They then scratched round for PPE and (too many for it to be a co-incidence) contracts were given out to friends of the Tory party. Some of that PPE was not up to scratch.

Then the debacle over Christmas.

It was always going to be that the only way out of this was vaccination. That was clear. Yet back go the students to Uni spreading it all over.

I have no idea how Corbyn would have done but I suspect the NHS wouldn’t have been so criminally under funded under Labour.



killdown...
March the 23rd we had 67 daily deaths which was the highest at that point.....
March 30th..............it was 374
April 7th it was 1037
April 14th is was 1041
April 21st it was 1166

so no deaths did not start to fall.


This is what I went off
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby Jock » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:57 pm

No I don’t think so as despite the often mismanaged pandemic Labour only have a tiny lead in the polls and the last one was for the far left Observer.
However anything’s possible and you only have to look at what happened to Labour in Scotland to see how quickly a major party can turn into a fringe party.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby skidemin » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:01 pm

WestCoastBlue wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.



i think his point is that a lot of what goes on in Wales is not of their doing...
got to say the torys in Wales have been a bit slow though... when they get wind of what drakeford is about to announce they should be running around looking for a journo to get in first and claim it should have been done 2 hours earlier...


Of course there is the benefit of hindsight piece that Boris doesn’t have which makes his critics look a lot more competent. However he has been overly reactive from the start.

Lockdown announced 23 March. Much later than it should have been deaths start to fall 8 April.

PPE was not of the required standard. This would have been highlighted in a 2016 exercise of the exact thing that happened in 2020 had it not been cancelled due to Austerity. They then scratched round for PPE and (too many for it to be a co-incidence) contracts were given out to friends of the Tory party. Some of that PPE was not up to scratch.

Then the debacle over Christmas.

It was always going to be that the only way out of this was vaccination. That was clear. Yet back go the students to Uni spreading it all over.

I have no idea how Corbyn would have done but I suspect the NHS wouldn’t have been so criminally under funded under Labour.



killdown...
March the 23rd we had 67 daily deaths which was the highest at that point.....
March 30th..............it was 374
April 7th it was 1037
April 14th is was 1041
April 21st it was 1166

so no deaths did not start to fall.


Keep going. What happened to the numbers after April 21st?

April 28th - 969
May 5th - 726
May 12th - 614
May 19th - 500
May 26th - 131

Between the 17th of June and the 12th of October there wasn’t a single day with over 100 Covid deaths.

So 4 weeks after lockdown is announced we see the deaths fall dramatically.

The virus takes 2-3 weeks to kill roughly and it spreads at an exponentially growing rate. Deaths also grow at an exponential rate in accordance with this. Just because Johnson said the magic word “lockdown” it doesn’t mean people with the virus suddenly lost it. Or that the people mingling in bars, clubs, restaurants, shops, pubs, schools, offices, etc suddenly weren’t infectious when they went home that night.



keep going ? :laughing5: :laughing5:
youve done that for me... I wonder if 900 or even 137 is more than 67......erm....
ah right it takes 2 to 3 weeks which of course is why people are isolating for 3 weeks.... arnt they ?
and yes the numbers went down in the summer , really strange that.. and boris and vaughen and sturgeon and uncle tom cobly an all said we would probably have a 2nd wave in the WINTER... so strange they can predict that tbh..youd swear its a pattern that occurs during certain seasons....
as for 40 thousand people being infected for 3 whole months...just waw....
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby A Quiet Monkfish » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:34 pm

May 2024. Lots will have changed by then. I also think Starmer hasn't really done himself any favours - pretty much the same evry time he speaks - 'should have done this, should have done that...", you never really hear what he would have done. I also don't think he comes across that well on camera, a bit wooden in an era when image and personality are increasingly relevant in a media dominated world. They said Labour was doomed 2 yrs ago. The Tories will win easily in 2024 I think. I'll vote for the nuttiest person on the ballot paper as usual..
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby Doyley1927 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:45 pm

A Quiet Monkfish wrote:May 2024. Lots will have changed by then. I also think Starmer hasn't really done himself any favours - pretty much the same evry time he speaks - 'should have done this, should have done that...", you never really hear what he would have done. I also don't think he comes across that well on camera, a bit wooden in an era when image and personality are increasingly relevant in a media dominated world. They said Labour was doomed 2 yrs ago. The Tories will win easily in 2024 I think. I'll vote for the nuttiest person on the ballot paper as usual..


Sir Kier said a circuit breaker was needed. Bojo said no and then weeks later a lockdown was imposed.

Sir Kier said a lockdown was needed. BoJo said no and days later a lockdown was imposed.

Sir Kier said schools should be shit. BoJo said no and the next day schools were closed.

Then afterwards says should have done this. But he said it before too.
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:27 pm

Hopefully, we will see an end to both Labour and Tory and something new emerges that can actually represent the people.

All of them are a shower of shite and there is almost no representation of the working class in Westminister.

Labour long ago ceased to be the party fo the working class and represent the Islington bubble, the Tory's no better. Lib-Dems and Greens are watermelon parties (green on the outside red to the core underneath). UKIP are a busted flush and Brexit Party was a one-off, with one agenda that unified a bunch of politicians that would be able to agree on very little else.

There really isn't much too choose at the minute.
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby Doyley1927 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:39 pm

ealing_ayatollah wrote:Hopefully, we will see an end to both Labour and Tory and something new emerges that can actually represent the people.

All of them are a shower of shite and there is almost no representation of the working class in Westminister.

Labour long ago ceased to be the party fo the working class and represent the Islington bubble, the Tory's no better. Lib-Dems and Greens are watermelon parties (green on the outside red to the core underneath). UKIP are a busted flush and Brexit Party was a one-off, with one agenda that unified a bunch of politicians that would be able to agree on very little else.

There really isn't much too choose at the minute.


Change UK were also an absolutely dire bunch.

We have the technology. We should employ the best people to run the country. Proper experts. Then vote on stuff that needs voting on.
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Re: End of the Tory party

Postby WestCoastBlue » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:47 pm

skidemin wrote:
WestCoastBlue wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Doyley1927 wrote:
glas wrote:hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Tory party in England know the NHS is not capable of providing a smooth distribution and delivery of the vaccine, so they call in the army to provide distribution and 21 mobile "medic" teams to deliver the vaccine promptly, efficiently and to save lives.

The labour party in Wales as usual, believe they know what is best to do, leading to delays and potentially costing 100's of lives. Their plan? setup a committee to discuss it. Obviously the committee will need to be diverse in all aspects of gender, colour, sexuality and need to have socialist leanings, with the clear understanding that anything that goes wrong is the wicked Tories fault. They will be safe in the knowledge that their supporters will fully back this "careful" approach and will fully commit to blaming the Tories, and will blindly continue to vote Labour at any future elections.


I’m not on about the devolved government.

I’m talking about the Tory party in government of the Uk.



i think his point is that a lot of what goes on in Wales is not of their doing...
got to say the torys in Wales have been a bit slow though... when they get wind of what drakeford is about to announce they should be running around looking for a journo to get in first and claim it should have been done 2 hours earlier...


Of course there is the benefit of hindsight piece that Boris doesn’t have which makes his critics look a lot more competent. However he has been overly reactive from the start.

Lockdown announced 23 March. Much later than it should have been deaths start to fall 8 April.

PPE was not of the required standard. This would have been highlighted in a 2016 exercise of the exact thing that happened in 2020 had it not been cancelled due to Austerity. They then scratched round for PPE and (too many for it to be a co-incidence) contracts were given out to friends of the Tory party. Some of that PPE was not up to scratch.

Then the debacle over Christmas.

It was always going to be that the only way out of this was vaccination. That was clear. Yet back go the students to Uni spreading it all over.

I have no idea how Corbyn would have done but I suspect the NHS wouldn’t have been so criminally under funded under Labour.



killdown...
March the 23rd we had 67 daily deaths which was the highest at that point.....
March 30th..............it was 374
April 7th it was 1037
April 14th is was 1041
April 21st it was 1166

so no deaths did not start to fall.


Keep going. What happened to the numbers after April 21st?

April 28th - 969
May 5th - 726
May 12th - 614
May 19th - 500
May 26th - 131

Between the 17th of June and the 12th of October there wasn’t a single day with over 100 Covid deaths.

So 4 weeks after lockdown is announced we see the deaths fall dramatically.

The virus takes 2-3 weeks to kill roughly and it spreads at an exponentially growing rate. Deaths also grow at an exponential rate in accordance with this. Just because Johnson said the magic word “lockdown” it doesn’t mean people with the virus suddenly lost it. Or that the people mingling in bars, clubs, restaurants, shops, pubs, schools, offices, etc suddenly weren’t infectious when they went home that night.



keep going ? :laughing5: :laughing5:
youve done that for me... I wonder if 900 or even 137 is more than 67......erm....
ah right it takes 2 to 3 weeks which of course is why people are isolating for 3 weeks.... arnt they ?
and yes the numbers went down in the summer , really strange that.. and boris and vaughen and sturgeon and uncle tom cobly an all said we would probably have a 2nd wave in the WINTER... so strange they can predict that tbh..youd swear its a pattern that occurs during certain seasons....
as for 40 thousand people being infected for 3 whole months...just waw....


You keep using 67, the number of daily deaths when lockdown was announced, as if it’s some big “ha ha lockdowns don’t work”. Do you seriously no grasp the fact that because it doesn’t kill people instantly deaths would still increase after the 23rd? Like is this genuinely something you struggle with? Those 67 people didn’t catch the virus on the 23rd and die on the 23rd, the average time for death is 2-3 weeks in the majority of cases. People who caught the virus on the 23rd or the few days preceding the 23rd still died but at a later date. This lag between catching and testing positive and dying is why we saw deaths increase for a short while after the lockdown measures, those people who died on the 23rd caught the virus weeks earlier and due to exponential growth more and more people died as the positive cases from the weeks and days leading up to the lockdown ended up in fatalities 2-3 weeks later.
The data is plain to see, our case numbers peaked before our deaths in April because of this buffer between catching Covid and dying.
I have no doubt there is a correlation between seasons and higher cases. Almost all respiratory illnesses are worse during winter, Covid is the same. But saying the only reason our cases and deaths decreased is because of the seasons is ridiculous. We had a peak at the end of April and the middle of December. Not the same season.
Check out America, they had higher deaths in July and August than in May and June.
Even if you look at the stats for the UK, our cases and deaths were rising in November so the country went into a lockdown and a short while later our case numbers and deaths started decreasing until lockdown was eased and then they rose again. I would happily put money on the assumption that in a few weeks we’ll see our death rate trending downwards.

As for 40,000 people being infected for 3 months I’ve got no clue what you’re on about and not a clue what “just waw” means.

I’m not saying lockdowns are perfect. I doubt anyone would argue there are negative impacts be it socially, mentally, physically, economically, etc
But trying to argue that with a virus that spreads the vast majority of the time through close human contact the measure of limiting and decreasing human contact is ineffective is idiotic.
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby Felixstowe_jack » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:05 pm

Have you not noticed that the crown in Cardiff bay are doing a lot worse than the UK.

Least vaccination rate of all the four nations.

Second highest death rate per million in the world. Only Belgium id worse. The UK is 7th.

More cases of the virus than the rest of the UK including England.

I would worry about Drakeford's labour if I was you. Drakeford followed Starmer's 2 week firebreak a complete disaster for Wales.
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby Doyley1927 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:15 pm

Felixstowe_jack wrote:Have you not noticed that the crown in Cardiff bay are doing a lot worse than the UK.

Least vaccination rate of all the four nations.

Second highest death rate per million in the world. Only Belgium id worse. The UK is 7th.

More cases of the virus than the rest of the UK including England.

I would worry about Drakeford's labour if I was you. Drakeford followed Starmer's 2 week firebreak a complete disaster for Wales.


It’s not a comparison with Wales.
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby WestCoastBlue » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:56 pm

Felixstowe_jack wrote:Have you not noticed that the crown in Cardiff bay are doing a lot worse than the UK.

Least vaccination rate of all the four nations.

Second highest death rate per million in the world. Only Belgium id worse. The UK is 7th.

More cases of the virus than the rest of the UK including England.

I would worry about Drakeford's labour if I was you. Drakeford followed Starmer's 2 week firebreak a complete disaster for Wales.


England has a higher death rate per million than Wales.
England - 1,349
Wales - 1,300

Wales is also ranked 7th globally for deaths not 2nd.
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby Jimmy Scoular » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:18 pm

Most people know Driftwood and co. are inept, however there comes a time when in extremis this failing crosses over into criminal negligence. We in Wales have reached this point this incompetent fool is costing lives with his lack of action. From March last year they knew the day would come when the vaccine was to be rolled out. The expertise of private sector logistics should have been harnessed to address the delivery of the vaccine to the population. What we have are the chuckle brothers so immersed in petty ancient politics and committee orientated shit. Shame on them I will be canvassing in the May elections for the Abolish the Welsh Assembly movement. Get rid of them all !!!!
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby troobloo3339 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:08 pm

Doyley1927 wrote:If and when we get over this pandemic and the inquiries start does anyone else think it will be the end of the Tory party?

So many mistakes. Granted its unprecedented in its scope but austerity led to so many cuts we were not prepared and then mistake after mistake propped up by contracts for the boys. When this all gets broken down I truly believe the Tories will be done for.

I say this as someone who doesn’t want this to happen and hopes that a viable centre right party emerges from it. Although lately Sir Kier has impressed me quite a bit.

Dream on feller
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Re: OT: Are we seeing the end of the Tory party?

Postby welshrarebit » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:18 pm

Jimmy I’d support you all the way with abolish.

We need to strengthen the MPs then scrap the gravy train. We need less politicians not more. We would still have representation despite the hysterical rantings I see from some.

Drakeford is stock piling vaccines. For all Boris’s faults he is massively ramping up vaccine delivery and trying to de open the economy
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