Drakeford unbelievable

Wales even having close to higher levels than those countries listed are not due to drakeford. They are to do with Boris Johnson and his conservative government who are opening 24 hours in some areas and using football stadiums to mass vaccinate. Some areas of England already have been through their over 80s. We aren’t. And we are rationing what we already have. The rationing is entirely down to the Welsh administration not Westminster.

Wales even having close to higher levels than those countries listed are not due to drakeford. They are to do with Boris Johnson and his conservative government who are opening 24 hours in some areas and using football stadiums to mass vaccinate. Some areas of England already have been through their over 80s. We aren’t. And we are rationing what we already have. The rationing is entirely down to the Welsh administration not Westminster.

Actually the Welsh numbers are higher than those countries. The UK as whole is doing exceptionally well. England are doing better than us that’s true but Wales and the UK are doing considerably better than most of the rest of the world.

VACCINE UPDATE – week commencing 18th January 2021 Aneurin Bevan Health Board
has now vaccinated a total of 25,877 people.

Residents from 72 of the 95 care homes for older adults within the health board area have been offered the vaccination, with staff in 90% of our older adult care homes being offered the vaccine. We have vaccinated 7,777 80 years and over and 6,500+ frontline health staff.

Last week we saw the opening of vaccination centres in Ebbw Vale and Abergavenny, which means there are now 4 vaccination centres open across the five boroughs. A vaccination centre will open on Monday this week in Newport which will be open 7 days a week, dependent on vaccine supply. All of our vaccination centres are appointment only and people will be contacted if they are being called for their appointment.

This week we have a planned vaccine supply of 24,000. 72 GP Practices across the Health Board area will start vaccinating those 80 years and over. By the end of this week we will have opened 5 vaccination centres, one in each borough.

Please remember that we are following the Joint Committee of Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) priority groups and have plans in place to vaccinate the top two priority groups in the first instance:

1. Residents in a Care Home for older adults and their carers
2. Aged 80 years and older, plus frontline Health and Social Care workers

From this week, those that fall within the third priority group; 3. All those aged 75 years and over, will start to receive invite letters for their vaccine. Please be assured that if you are aged 80 and over, and haven’t yet received an invite for your vaccine, you will be invited over the next couple of weeks.

If you receive an appointment, please do everything you can to attend as we are vaccinating thousands of people every week. Vaccine supplies are limited, the supply of the frozen vaccine, Pfizer is more certain but we can only offer that in our larger vaccination centres at the moment. By offering the vaccine through GP practices and across our Health Board area we are doing our utmost to reduce travel time and we appreciate everyone attending their appointment.

We continue to develop our booking centre process and call centre and plan to increase capacity as supplies increase. This means we can improve the service we offer as we have noticed the lines can get very busy at times.

We will continue to keep you updated, however due to a number of variable factors, such as the supply of vaccine, allocated plans can change at short notice.

Wales even having close to higher levels than those countries listed are not due to drakeford. They are to do with Boris Johnson and his conservative government who are opening 24 hours in some areas and using football stadiums to mass vaccinate. Some areas of England already have been through their over 80s. We aren’t. And we are rationing what we already have. The rationing is entirely down to the Welsh administration not Westminster.

Actually the Welsh numbers are higher than those countries. The UK as whole is doing exceptionally well. England are doing better than us that’s true but Wales and the UK are doing considerably better than most of the rest of the world.

food rationing during and just after the war..... are you serious...

Wales even having close to higher levels than those countries listed are not due to drakeford. They are to do with Boris Johnson and his conservative government who are opening 24 hours in some areas and using football stadiums to mass vaccinate. Some areas of England already have been through their over 80s. We aren’t. And we are rationing what we already have. The rationing is entirely down to the Welsh administration not Westminster.

What utter rubbish! The only 'world beating' thing that Johnson has managed is deaths in England.

At end of day if he keeps back 20k doses or whatever it is that means 20k people wont have chance to get some sort of immunity from 1st dose.....and how many of those 20k will die or become seriously ill with covid? Only thing staff at centres would get if sat doing nothing is numb arse from sitting down to much.! Not sure nhs staff would object to numb arse if it means more people stopped from being admitted to hospital..

Okay, so looking at the figures, form BBC news today, Wales has had 327,000 vaccines delivered. 280,000 Pfizer and 47,000 Astra Zeneca.

The 47,000 Astra Zeneca will have been largely delivered via GP surgeries, dentists , opticians, etc. There are some issues with reliability on deliveries of vaccine batches, which is understandable given the rollout is form a standing start.

The Pfizer jabs are mainly distributed via hospitals and the hubs that are being set up around Wales. The stock in Wales has already been delivered. We have that in storage.

Looking at the figures - if today, 151, 737 people have had their vaccines, and all 47,000 of the Astra Zeneca vaccines have been given out, then around 104,737 Pfizer vaccines have been given so far; out of a total in Wales of 280,000 - which means that around 37% of Pfizer jabs have been given and 63% remain in storage . The question begs itself - why?


Staffing of vaccination centres in hospitals and hubs will include some administrative staff, (they would be full time,) and then largely Bank staff, ,that is . working nurses offering shifts, or retired nurses and medics who have been reinstated on their professional register, or volunteers. All Bank staff would be booked on a sessional basis (as when needed ). There would be a list of sessions for them to sign on to work, which they would put their names down for. If there was no work, then they are not employed therefore not payed, neither do they hang around.

Retired medics reinstated on the emergency register were contacted by the WAG by email on 8th Jan apologising for the difficulties that some were experiencing whilst trying to engage with health boards over their offer to support the vaccination programme. I think this was due to volume of people to process.

So it does seem that there are some logistical difficulties in the setting up hubs and running our vaccine service. Health boards are working hard to train vaccinators. However, there are theory and Practical updating modules to be completed before someone is allowed to become a vaccinator. All this takes time.

The other issue is that the mantra is “get as many vaccines into as many arms as soon as possible”. The obvious reasons for this are, 1 You save lives, 2 You save the NHS from being overwhelmed with patients, as is almost the case at he moment. It takes 2 weeks for a person to develop sufficient immunity form the Pfizer vaccine to be protect them from severe disease, and hospital admission; therefore there will be a lag between people being vaccinated in numbers, and the NHS starting to see the benefit. So, the quicker that people are immunised, the quicker we will see the benefit of less strain on the NHS, and lives saved. Over 150,000 Pfizer vaccines sitting in cold storage will make a significant difference.

So, at present , we seem to be a bit behind our target, with rather a lot of Pfizer vaccines in cold storage not being used. So how did we get here?

If you look at BBC News Wales 26th November 20, there may be some clues.

Commenting on how other nations were preparing for Vaccine rollout, this was at a time when England and Scotland had already made vaccine rollout announcements; Mark Drakeford said on Dros Ginio “ What other places have done is shown ambition. What we’re doing here in Wales is to plan first before we make an announcement.”

At that time Plaid Cymru were asking for an “Urgent, clear and comprehensive vaccination plan”, urging the Welsh Government not to be “vague” on such a key matter.


Plaid Cymru's health spokesman Rhun ap Iorwerth said that "seeing the kind of roll-out plans in Scotland just reinforces the need for such a clear plan in Wales". "We need to know how - once approval is given for the vaccine - the vaccine will be rolled out in Wales, including timings, recipients and logistics," he said.

So it does seem to me that regrettably, whatever is being said, we seem to be suffering form a lack of “ambition” on the part of the Welsh Government back in November 2020.

My take on it to be honest, is I think the Welsh Assembly Government probably had their eyes set on the Astra Zeneca vaccine for Wales, as it is much easier to handle, given we have only two sites in wales able to store the Pfizer jab; and the large quantities of unused Pfizer vaccines are a bit of an embarrassment. I think that England , Scotland, and Northern Ireland have had more robust plans in place at an earlier stage, and we are still working ours through.

Whatever the issues are, I think that Mr Drakeford’s communications over the vaccination programme in Wales have not done him any favours. Yes, It is a marathon, so we need to prepare for the long haul, but there is also an urgency to get as many people vaccinated was soon as possible, to give the NHS protection as soon as is practicably possible. Also, with a vaccination workforce made up of large groups of people working on a sessional basis, I think with appropriate planning, having vaccinators hanging around doing nothing is not that much of a possibility.

What is urgently needed is transparency from the WAG over the vaccination programme; whether the staffing requirements have been met, if not, when will they be? what plans are in place to manage vaccine rollout? particularly Pfizer.Where are awe now? What are the details plans and timelines for the Hubs that are being set up.

England are now in a position where they are trialling 24 hr vaccine centres, Wales is in a position where we are making our current batch of Pfizer vaccines “last as long as possible until February”. Something doesn’t stack up here.

The virus is the virus, and it is putting huge strains on all of us; given half a chance it spreads rapidly, and it also now seems to be developing variants with unpleasant consequences especially being much more transmissible - we have to accept that. However, given the quite stringent , but reasonable demands being made by the WAG on the people of Wales to control its spread, surely if they are going to expect a huge degree of goodwill and commitment on the Nation’s behalf, then the WAG should do the same, by working hard at rolling out the vaccine to protect the NHS and save lives. And also giving us a road map to get out from where we are. If that does not happen, it looks very much like we will be remaining in lockdown for some time after restrictions start lift the other side of the border.That would be utterly depressing.

Perhaps it may help if people on this message board would email both the Health minister, and the health spokespersons for Plaid, and the Conservative parties., to see how things can be improved.

Wales even having close to higher levels than those countries listed are not due to drakeford. They are to do with Boris Johnson and his conservative government who are opening 24 hours in some areas and using football stadiums to mass vaccinate. Some areas of England already have been through their over 80s. We aren’t. And we are rationing what we already have. The rationing is entirely down to the Welsh administration not Westminster.

What utter rubbish! The only 'world beating' thing that Johnson has managed is deaths in England.

WHy is it Rubbish? The Westminster government invested heavily in vaccine research, particularly the Oxford designed, Astra backed vaccine. This is a massively important vaccine, more so than the Pfizer and moderna vaccines. Storage, transportation and more importantly cost as much more favourable.

They secured 100mil does of that and 60 mil of moderna and Pfizer.

The UK government did that not drakeford and gething.

Since we became the worlds first country to approve Pfizer and Astra vaccines they have ramped up roll out massively so. They are not spreading delivery out in England to make the initial delivery last longer. Why are we doing it here? There is no ACTUAL reason if his reason is indeed to stop vaccinators having nothing to do.
If he were concerned about those having their 2nd dose in a reasonable time frame then ok I can see the logic there. But to come out with the nonsense he has would be laughable were it not so serious.

These entire times are unprecedented. Drakeford and Sturgeon at least had the benefit of seeing what Johnson did first then doing the opposite (for a while until they all basically did the same sort of things).

When compared to the rest of the world, the UK is not top of deaths. We are 5th. https://www.statista.com/statistics/109 ... y-country/

The range from 1 - 4 is just over 266K

The range from 5 - 12 is circa 42K. Which suggests that we are not handling things that differently to other countries. The vaccine roll out which is clearly what Johnson is pinning his hopes on to is will hopefully see our rates drop rapidly the sooner it rolls out.

Its easy to criticise. This is not something anyone has seen in living memory.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... 2countries

No track and trace? Thats not correct - we have the highest amount of tests being done in europe and 5th highest in the world.

Germany have more serious cases than we do. We are 7th for these cases.
Belgiunm have a higher cases per 1m pop than we do.

We have a VERY generous furlough scheme.

Of course mistakes have been made but Johnson and indeed drakeford are not taking their decisions in isolation. They have numerous advisors who have been feeding information. It is a rapidly evolving situation which new information appears every day.

VACCINE UPDATE – week commencing 18th January 2021 Aneurin Bevan Health Board
has now vaccinated a total of 25,877 people.

Residents from 72 of the 95 care homes for older adults within the health board area have been offered the vaccination, with staff in 90% of our older adult care homes being offered the vaccine. We have vaccinated 7,777 80 years and over and 6,500+ frontline health staff.

Last week we saw the opening of vaccination centres in Ebbw Vale and Abergavenny, which means there are now 4 vaccination centres open across the five boroughs. A vaccination centre will open on Monday this week in Newport which will be open 7 days a week, dependent on vaccine supply. All of our vaccination centres are appointment only and people will be contacted if they are being called for their appointment.

This week we have a planned vaccine supply of 24,000. 72 GP Practices across the Health Board area will start vaccinating those 80 years and over. By the end of this week we will have opened 5 vaccination centres, one in each borough.

Please remember that we are following the Joint Committee of Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) priority groups and have plans in place to vaccinate the top two priority groups in the first instance:

1. Residents in a Care Home for older adults and their carers
2. Aged 80 years and older, plus frontline Health and Social Care workers

From this week, those that fall within the third priority group; 3. All those aged 75 years and over, will start to receive invite letters for their vaccine. Please be assured that if you are aged 80 and over, and haven’t yet received an invite for your vaccine, you will be invited over the next couple of weeks.

If you receive an appointment, please do everything you can to attend as we are vaccinating thousands of people every week. Vaccine supplies are limited, the supply of the frozen vaccine, Pfizer is more certain but we can only offer that in our larger vaccination centres at the moment. By offering the vaccine through GP practices and across our Health Board area we are doing our utmost to reduce travel time and we appreciate everyone attending their appointment.

We continue to develop our booking centre process and call centre and plan to increase capacity as supplies increase. This means we can improve the service we offer as we have noticed the lines can get very busy at times.

We will continue to keep you updated, however due to a number of variable factors, such as the supply of vaccine, allocated plans can change at short notice.

Pembrokeshire doesn't have mass centre for Joe public only for health staff and similar...... public will get the oxford vaccine available through some surgeries that started last week so extremely poor roll out here . But your right and like I said the Pfizer vaccine needs to be given as quickly as is possible to help slow hospital admissions ? Saving doses to avoid problems with vaccination centres can lead to more delays if deliveries suffer problems like it as done past couple of days throughout Europe.. wales could find themselves months behind rest uk if not careful.

He worded it poorly but there is absolutely an argument for going slow and steady. I’m not fully clued up on the logistics but there is one guarantee. If we use up our entire vaccine supplies then the vaccinating nurses and doctors are going to go and book shifts back on the wards or GPs or surgeries or hospitals etc. These people don’t have the luxury to be sitting around for weeks without income. Then the new vaccine comes in and suddenly there is a massive lack of staff and due to how their work operates they're booked out for the next two weeks.

Wales has currently administered 160k of our 270k supply with no more doses expected until the start of Feb.
The issue with the Pfizer vaccine is it has quite particular storage requirements and when the next batch comes in a certain amount of workers will be needed to administer it. Accelerating the process now can cause issues in the future if when the next batch comes in there’s an inadequate number of staff available to administer the vaccines. Currently we might be able to vaccinate quicker than the targets set out and get all 270k doses given out a week early but when the next batch comes in an understaffed vaccination centre might only be able to administer 850 of the 1000 jabs they receive whereas if we administer 270k by the time of the target date and the next day another shipment comes in vaccination centres should be fully staffed and able to vaccinate the full amount.

As I said it’s very poorly worded but it’s not a strategy he’s come up with on a whim. It’s been discussed as a viable option.

no mate..that 110k vaccinations now could save save lives of people who will now die ? all these restrictions and he is running the vaccination role out as if its a time and motion experiment...

He does think it's better for people to potentially die than have people hang around doing nothing! How else can this be interpreted?

From what I understand this current batch equates to just 5.4% of the total vaccines required for Wales’ adult population. Drakeford is talking about slowing the role out of the remaining 110k to avoid complications with the role out at future stages. If the next batch comes in and is significantly larger, which due to increased production and better logistical understanding is likely, then having a reduced workforce could be more damaging than slowing the release of the remainder of this batch.

This isn’t something Drakeford has decided on his lonesome as some seem to think. This will have been discussed amongst dozens of people including experts in the various procedures of the role out. The 2 options aren’t “people die” or “people sitting around doing nothing”, it’s “x number of people could potentially die now” and “y number of people could potentially die later”. Presumably Y came out as the larger number, hence the current strategy. If this has been deemed an effective strategy then so be it.

And that ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the WAG

Where are you getting all this information from??

What your saying may well be true or partly true I really don’t know because part of the problem is that Drakeford and his motley crew are just so bad at communicating any important information to the public

They constantly contradict each other and as for Vaughan Gethin, never known someone go AWOL so much when there are difficult questions to answer. He’s only in his bloody spare bedroom can’t be that difficult to get hold of him for some answers

Which information? The vaccinated numbers and available dose numbers are fairly widely reported online. As for nurses and volunteer health care workers working on 2 week slots, I've got family and friends currently working in the NHS in varying roles. One of which works in a vaccine distribution centre in the Midlands and explained that their system is based around working in a single ward/area for a 2 week period. This is to stop excessive movement between wards.

As for the next batch of vaccines being larger than this one, that is admittedly only an assumption. But I think a sensible one. As more vaccines are approved, as production increases, etc, more will become available. Plus distribution lines have been established and capacity will have increased.

As I said I don't know the full discussions that have been had or ideas that have been proposed but the idea that Drakeford has just woken up this morning and decided this on a whim is ludicrous.

I am by no means an expert in any of the aspects of this vaccine role out but even I can quite easily think of some scenarios were this would be a necessary strategy:

Vaccinate 110k people this week, vaccination staff are told the next shipment doesn't arrive for 2 weeks, instead of being unemployed for 2 weeks they take up other jobs, suddenly it turns out the next shipment is a few days early but there's a reduced workforce to administer it so you have to throw away jabs that have gone off (I think this timeframe is ~3 days from opening the 1000 jab batch).

A trucker company cocks up the new paper work leaving the EU/entering the UK, suddenly all 110k people waiting for their second jab miss it and have essentially wasted jab 1, spreading out the jabs mean maybe only 25k miss the deadline for jab 2.

Similar scenario as previous. Vaccinate 110k people this week, 11 weeks time a truck bound for Wales skids off a road and crashes destroying 10's of thousands of doses, if 110k people are all at the 12 week deadline you need to redistribute jabs from first timers to deal with the reduced supply. If only 25k are at the deadline you have time to divert extra vaccines to replace the lost ones.

I totally agree that the communication of this has been awful but I will accept that much more knowledgeable people than I or anyone on this board will have evaluated every possibility to the extreme and if this is the outcome I accept that decision.

Are you some sort of lunatic?? Let’s not vaccinate as many people as possible in case a lorry carrying the vaccine crashes!!!

At end of day if he keeps back 20k doses or whatever it is that means 20k people wont have chance to get some sort of immunity from 1st dose.....and how many of those 20k will die or become seriously ill with covid? Only thing staff at centres would get if sat doing nothing is numb arse from sitting down to much.! Not sure nhs staff would object to numb arse if it means more people stopped from being admitted to hospital..

Spot On allan .

Covid vaccine: Health minister denies jabs being held back -

Wales' health minister has denied Covid-19 vaccines are being held back.

Vaughan Gething was reacting to First Minister Mark Drakeford's comments the supply had to last until February to prevent "vaccinators standing around with nothing to do".

In a later tweet, Mr Drakeford said "nobody is holding back vaccines", but the Conservative ex-Welsh secretary said his comments were "astonishing".

Mr Gething insists vaccines are being rolled out "as quickly as possible".

After Mr Drakeford's comments on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, the Welsh Government had said the reason for spacing out vaccine supply was to avoid wastage.

Asked about those comments, Mr Gething said: "We're rolling out the vaccination programme as quickly as possible.

"As the first minister's clarified tonight, we're not holding the vaccine back."

'Excuses don't wash'

Public Health Wales said 151,737 people have been vaccinated, after at least 327,000 doses were delivered.

Mr Gething told BBC Wales Today: "It's as quickly as we build our infrastructure to deliver, as quick as we're able to get the vaccines out to be delivered."

But former Welsh Secretary Stephen Crabb said Mr Drakeford's comments had been "astonishing".

The Conservative MP for Preseli Pembrokeshire told Gareth Lewis on BBC Radio Wales: "I just find some of the excuses that have been made for why we are so behind in terms of vaccinating the over 80s - it just doesn't wash with our constituents I'm afraid

"When people in my constituency watch the television and they hear the first minister say 'this is not a sprint' when so many countries around the world are treating it exactly as that.

"The faster you roll out the vaccinations to the most vulnerable, ie the over 80s, the more lives that will be saved."

Of the 327,000 delivered vaccines, 280,000 are the Pfizer-BioNTech type that has to be stored at -70C.

A total of 4.8% of the population has been vaccinated in Wales, the same as in Scotland. This compares with 6.2% in England and 6.6% in Northern Ireland.

Judging by what his butty jezza said - makes you wonder if he is keeping them back to give away to poorer nations!!!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... -UK-latest

I started this post ,I can't believe some are defending what drakeford said , come on you know the quicker the vaccine goes in people's arms the more lives you save, going at a slower pace the chances are lives will be lost ,

I started this post ,I can't believe some are defending what drakeford said , come on you know the quicker the vaccine goes in people's arms the more lives you save, going at a slower pace the chances are lives will be lost ,

This must be the 1st Thread you have started that I agree 100% with

Here are 2 examples of how wrong this morning's statement was - As tonight it's U-Turn city again in this country
Point 2 - Boris Johnson's dad ( Stanley ) - Had his 2nd JAB Last week - not 1st but 2nd
As some people in Wales who are in their 80's 90's etc can't even get their 1st Jab

I started this post ,I can't believe some are defending what drakeford said , come on you know the quicker the vaccine goes in people's arms the more lives you save, going at a slower pace the chances are lives will be lost ,

This must be the 1st Thread you have started that I agree 100% with

Here are 2 examples of how wrong this morning's statement was - As tonight it's U-Turn city again in this country
Point 2 - Boris Johnson's dad ( Stanley ) - Had his 2nd JAB Last week - not 1st but 2nd
As some people in Wales who are in their 80's 90's etc can't even get their 1st Jab

We should be slamming it anyones arm that is willing to have it. When they have surplus left at the end of the day we should be ringing radio stations and TV stations telling them so we can make sure even more people get it.
The end of January/Start of feb is DAYS away. HE cant be serious he thinks we will run out?!?

Boris has the army on standby for logistical issues. We are getting those jabs one way or another.

If he is that concerned then at lest start giving it to those that have already had the first so they dont go past the 42 days.

Northern Ireland who are not connected to England and our main transport links by LAND have given 1613 per 100000 MORE than we have. But drakeford says it is marginal differences??? Pull the other one.

He worded it poorly but there is absolutely an argument for going slow and steady. I’m not fully clued up on the logistics but there is one guarantee. If we use up our entire vaccine supplies then the vaccinating nurses and doctors are going to go and book shifts back on the wards or GPs or surgeries or hospitals etc. These people don’t have the luxury to be sitting around for weeks without income. Then the new vaccine comes in and suddenly there is a massive lack of staff and due to how their work operates they're booked out for the next two weeks.

Wales has currently administered 160k of our 270k supply with no more doses expected until the start of Feb.
The issue with the Pfizer vaccine is it has quite particular storage requirements and when the next batch comes in a certain amount of workers will be needed to administer it. Accelerating the process now can cause issues in the future if when the next batch comes in there’s an inadequate number of staff available to administer the vaccines. Currently we might be able to vaccinate quicker than the targets set out and get all 270k doses given out a week early but when the next batch comes in an understaffed vaccination centre might only be able to administer 850 of the 1000 jabs they receive whereas if we administer 270k by the time of the target date and the next day another shipment comes in vaccination centres should be fully staffed and able to vaccinate the full amount.

As I said it’s very poorly worded but it’s not a strategy he’s come up with on a whim. It’s been discussed as a viable option.

no mate..that 110k vaccinations now could save save lives of people who will now die ? all these restrictions and he is running the vaccination role out as if its a time and motion experiment...

He does think it's better for people to potentially die than have people hang around doing nothing! How else can this be interpreted?

From what I understand this current batch equates to just 5.4% of the total vaccines required for Wales’ adult population. Drakeford is talking about slowing the role out of the remaining 110k to avoid complications with the role out at future stages. If the next batch comes in and is significantly larger, which due to increased production and better logistical understanding is likely, then having a reduced workforce could be more damaging than slowing the release of the remainder of this batch.

This isn’t something Drakeford has decided on his lonesome as some seem to think. This will have been discussed amongst dozens of people including experts in the various procedures of the role out. The 2 options aren’t “people die” or “people sitting around doing nothing”, it’s “x number of people could potentially die now” and “y number of people could potentially die later”. Presumably Y came out as the larger number, hence the current strategy. If this has been deemed an effective strategy then so be it.

And that ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the WAG

Where are you getting all this information from??

What your saying may well be true or partly true I really don’t know because part of the problem is that Drakeford and his motley crew are just so bad at communicating any important information to the public

They constantly contradict each other and as for Vaughan Gethin, never known someone go AWOL so much when there are difficult questions to answer. He’s only in his bloody spare bedroom can’t be that difficult to get hold of him for some answers

Which information? The vaccinated numbers and available dose numbers are fairly widely reported online. As for nurses and volunteer health care workers working on 2 week slots, I've got family and friends currently working in the NHS in varying roles. One of which works in a vaccine distribution centre in the Midlands and explained that their system is based around working in a single ward/area for a 2 week period. This is to stop excessive movement between wards.

As for the next batch of vaccines being larger than this one, that is admittedly only an assumption. But I think a sensible one. As more vaccines are approved, as production increases, etc, more will become available. Plus distribution lines have been established and capacity will have increased.

As I said I don't know the full discussions that have been had or ideas that have been proposed but the idea that Drakeford has just woken up this morning and decided this on a whim is ludicrous.

I am by no means an expert in any of the aspects of this vaccine role out but even I can quite easily think of some scenarios were this would be a necessary strategy:

Vaccinate 110k people this week, vaccination staff are told the next shipment doesn't arrive for 2 weeks, instead of being unemployed for 2 weeks they take up other jobs, suddenly it turns out the next shipment is a few days early but there's a reduced workforce to administer it so you have to throw away jabs that have gone off (I think this timeframe is ~3 days from opening the 1000 jab batch).

A trucker company cocks up the new paper work leaving the EU/entering the UK, suddenly all 110k people waiting for their second jab miss it and have essentially wasted jab 1, spreading out the jabs mean maybe only 25k miss the deadline for jab 2.

Similar scenario as previous. Vaccinate 110k people this week, 11 weeks time a truck bound for Wales skids off a road and crashes destroying 10's of thousands of doses, if 110k people are all at the 12 week deadline you need to redistribute jabs from first timers to deal with the reduced supply. If only 25k are at the deadline you have time to divert extra vaccines to replace the lost ones.

I totally agree that the communication of this has been awful but I will accept that much more knowledgeable people than I or anyone on this board will have evaluated every possibility to the extreme and if this is the outcome I accept that decision.

Are you some sort of lunatic?? Let’s not vaccinate as many people as possible in case a lorry carrying the vaccine crashes!!!

A massive oversimplification of my post. Much smarter people than me and people much more knowledgeable in this subject have come together and decided the most viable strategy is this one. I’m merely guessing what some uncontrollable variables might be that have led them to this decision. I could be completely wrong but no doubt there are contingency plans in place in the event that such unforeseen circumstances could occur. Admittedly maybe a truck crashing is too dramatic but there are numerous ways the supply chain and distribution could be affected.

He worded it poorly but there is absolutely an argument for going slow and steady. I’m not fully clued up on the logistics but there is one guarantee. If we use up our entire vaccine supplies then the vaccinating nurses and doctors are going to go and book shifts back on the wards or GPs or surgeries or hospitals etc. These people don’t have the luxury to be sitting around for weeks without income. Then the new vaccine comes in and suddenly there is a massive lack of staff and due to how their work operates they're booked out for the next two weeks.

Wales has currently administered 160k of our 270k supply with no more doses expected until the start of Feb.
The issue with the Pfizer vaccine is it has quite particular storage requirements and when the next batch comes in a certain amount of workers will be needed to administer it. Accelerating the process now can cause issues in the future if when the next batch comes in there’s an inadequate number of staff available to administer the vaccines. Currently we might be able to vaccinate quicker than the targets set out and get all 270k doses given out a week early but when the next batch comes in an understaffed vaccination centre might only be able to administer 850 of the 1000 jabs they receive whereas if we administer 270k by the time of the target date and the next day another shipment comes in vaccination centres should be fully staffed and able to vaccinate the full amount.

As I said it’s very poorly worded but it’s not a strategy he’s come up with on a whim. It’s been discussed as a viable option.

no mate..that 110k vaccinations now could save save lives of people who will now die ? all these restrictions and he is running the vaccination role out as if its a time and motion experiment...

He does think it's better for people to potentially die than have people hang around doing nothing! How else can this be interpreted?

From what I understand this current batch equates to just 5.4% of the total vaccines required for Wales’ adult population. Drakeford is talking about slowing the role out of the remaining 110k to avoid complications with the role out at future stages. If the next batch comes in and is significantly larger, which due to increased production and better logistical understanding is likely, then having a reduced workforce could be more damaging than slowing the release of the remainder of this batch.

This isn’t something Drakeford has decided on his lonesome as some seem to think. This will have been discussed amongst dozens of people including experts in the various procedures of the role out. The 2 options aren’t “people die” or “people sitting around doing nothing”, it’s “x number of people could potentially die now” and “y number of people could potentially die later”. Presumably Y came out as the larger number, hence the current strategy. If this has been deemed an effective strategy then so be it.

And that ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the WAG

Where are you getting all this information from??

What your saying may well be true or partly true I really don’t know because part of the problem is that Drakeford and his motley crew are just so bad at communicating any important information to the public

They constantly contradict each other and as for Vaughan Gethin, never known someone go AWOL so much when there are difficult questions to answer. He’s only in his bloody spare bedroom can’t be that difficult to get hold of him for some answers

Which information? The vaccinated numbers and available dose numbers are fairly widely reported online. As for nurses and volunteer health care workers working on 2 week slots, I've got family and friends currently working in the NHS in varying roles. One of which works in a vaccine distribution centre in the Midlands and explained that their system is based around working in a single ward/area for a 2 week period. This is to stop excessive movement between wards.

As for the next batch of vaccines being larger than this one, that is admittedly only an assumption. But I think a sensible one. As more vaccines are approved, as production increases, etc, more will become available. Plus distribution lines have been established and capacity will have increased.

As I said I don't know the full discussions that have been had or ideas that have been proposed but the idea that Drakeford has just woken up this morning and decided this on a whim is ludicrous.

I am by no means an expert in any of the aspects of this vaccine role out but even I can quite easily think of some scenarios were this would be a necessary strategy:

Vaccinate 110k people this week, vaccination staff are told the next shipment doesn't arrive for 2 weeks, instead of being unemployed for 2 weeks they take up other jobs, suddenly it turns out the next shipment is a few days early but there's a reduced workforce to administer it so you have to throw away jabs that have gone off (I think this timeframe is ~3 days from opening the 1000 jab batch).

A trucker company cocks up the new paper work leaving the EU/entering the UK, suddenly all 110k people waiting for their second jab miss it and have essentially wasted jab 1, spreading out the jabs mean maybe only 25k miss the deadline for jab 2.

Similar scenario as previous. Vaccinate 110k people this week, 11 weeks time a truck bound for Wales skids off a road and crashes destroying 10's of thousands of doses, if 110k people are all at the 12 week deadline you need to redistribute jabs from first timers to deal with the reduced supply. If only 25k are at the deadline you have time to divert extra vaccines to replace the lost ones.

I totally agree that the communication of this has been awful but I will accept that much more knowledgeable people than I or anyone on this board will have evaluated every possibility to the extreme and if this is the outcome I accept that decision.

Are you some sort of lunatic?? Let’s not vaccinate as many people as possible in case a lorry carrying the vaccine crashes!!!

A massive oversimplification of my post. Much smarter people than me and people much more knowledgeable in this subject have come together and decided the most viable strategy is this one. I’m merely guessing what some uncontrollable variables might be that have led them to this decision. I could be completely wrong but no doubt there are contingency plans in place in the event that such unforeseen circumstances could occur. Admittedly maybe a truck crashing is too dramatic but there are numerous ways the supply chain and distribution could be affected.

To that one has to ask - why are we different to England, Northern Ireland and Scotland? If our policy is so good why are we the only ones doing it?

Presumably it is public health advising on this so why are the Welsh public health, with access to the same information as the others, taking this line in direct opposition to everyone else. Why is Mark Drakeford saying this is not a race? It takes approximately 21 days to develop an immune response to the vaccine. The sooner people have it the sooner we can get them up to speed with Anti bodies and T Cells.

He worded it poorly but there is absolutely an argument for going slow and steady. I’m not fully clued up on the logistics but there is one guarantee. If we use up our entire vaccine supplies then the vaccinating nurses and doctors are going to go and book shifts back on the wards or GPs or surgeries or hospitals etc. These people don’t have the luxury to be sitting around for weeks without income. Then the new vaccine comes in and suddenly there is a massive lack of staff and due to how their work operates they're booked out for the next two weeks.

Wales has currently administered 160k of our 270k supply with no more doses expected until the start of Feb.
The issue with the Pfizer vaccine is it has quite particular storage requirements and when the next batch comes in a certain amount of workers will be needed to administer it. Accelerating the process now can cause issues in the future if when the next batch comes in there’s an inadequate number of staff available to administer the vaccines. Currently we might be able to vaccinate quicker than the targets set out and get all 270k doses given out a week early but when the next batch comes in an understaffed vaccination centre might only be able to administer 850 of the 1000 jabs they receive whereas if we administer 270k by the time of the target date and the next day another shipment comes in vaccination centres should be fully staffed and able to vaccinate the full amount.

As I said it’s very poorly worded but it’s not a strategy he’s come up with on a whim. It’s been discussed as a viable option.

no mate..that 110k vaccinations now could save save lives of people who will now die ? all these restrictions and he is running the vaccination role out as if its a time and motion experiment...

He does think it's better for people to potentially die than have people hang around doing nothing! How else can this be interpreted?

From what I understand this current batch equates to just 5.4% of the total vaccines required for Wales’ adult population. Drakeford is talking about slowing the role out of the remaining 110k to avoid complications with the role out at future stages. If the next batch comes in and is significantly larger, which due to increased production and better logistical understanding is likely, then having a reduced workforce could be more damaging than slowing the release of the remainder of this batch.

This isn’t something Drakeford has decided on his lonesome as some seem to think. This will have been discussed amongst dozens of people including experts in the various procedures of the role out. The 2 options aren’t “people die” or “people sitting around doing nothing”, it’s “x number of people could potentially die now” and “y number of people could potentially die later”. Presumably Y came out as the larger number, hence the current strategy. If this has been deemed an effective strategy then so be it.

And that ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the WAG

Where are you getting all this information from??

What your saying may well be true or partly true I really don’t know because part of the problem is that Drakeford and his motley crew are just so bad at communicating any important information to the public

They constantly contradict each other and as for Vaughan Gethin, never known someone go AWOL so much when there are difficult questions to answer. He’s only in his bloody spare bedroom can’t be that difficult to get hold of him for some answers

Which information? The vaccinated numbers and available dose numbers are fairly widely reported online. As for nurses and volunteer health care workers working on 2 week slots, I've got family and friends currently working in the NHS in varying roles. One of which works in a vaccine distribution centre in the Midlands and explained that their system is based around working in a single ward/area for a 2 week period. This is to stop excessive movement between wards.

As for the next batch of vaccines being larger than this one, that is admittedly only an assumption. But I think a sensible one. As more vaccines are approved, as production increases, etc, more will become available. Plus distribution lines have been established and capacity will have increased.

As I said I don't know the full discussions that have been had or ideas that have been proposed but the idea that Drakeford has just woken up this morning and decided this on a whim is ludicrous.

I am by no means an expert in any of the aspects of this vaccine role out but even I can quite easily think of some scenarios were this would be a necessary strategy:

Vaccinate 110k people this week, vaccination staff are told the next shipment doesn't arrive for 2 weeks, instead of being unemployed for 2 weeks they take up other jobs, suddenly it turns out the next shipment is a few days early but there's a reduced workforce to administer it so you have to throw away jabs that have gone off (I think this timeframe is ~3 days from opening the 1000 jab batch).

A trucker company cocks up the new paper work leaving the EU/entering the UK, suddenly all 110k people waiting for their second jab miss it and have essentially wasted jab 1, spreading out the jabs mean maybe only 25k miss the deadline for jab 2.

Similar scenario as previous. Vaccinate 110k people this week, 11 weeks time a truck bound for Wales skids off a road and crashes destroying 10's of thousands of doses, if 110k people are all at the 12 week deadline you need to redistribute jabs from first timers to deal with the reduced supply. If only 25k are at the deadline you have time to divert extra vaccines to replace the lost ones.

I totally agree that the communication of this has been awful but I will accept that much more knowledgeable people than I or anyone on this board will have evaluated every possibility to the extreme and if this is the outcome I accept that decision.

Are you some sort of lunatic?? Let’s not vaccinate as many people as possible in case a lorry carrying the vaccine crashes!!!

A massive oversimplification of my post. Much smarter people than me and people much more knowledgeable in this subject have come together and decided the most viable strategy is this one. I’m merely guessing what some uncontrollable variables might be that have led them to this decision. I could be completely wrong but no doubt there are contingency plans in place in the event that such unforeseen circumstances could occur. Admittedly maybe a truck crashing is too dramatic but there are numerous ways the supply chain and distribution could be affected.

To that one has to ask - why are we different to England, Northern Ireland and Scotland? If our policy is so good why are we the only ones doing it?

Presumably it is public health advising on this so why are the Welsh public health, with access to the same information as the others, taking this line in direct opposition to everyone else. Why is Mark Drakeford saying this is not a race? It takes approximately 21 days to develop an immune response to the vaccine. The sooner people have it the sooner we can get them up to speed with Anti bodies and T Cells.

Perhaps our distribution abilities were underestimated so if we continued at our pace we’d run out much earlier than predicted and before our next shipment?
Maybe the other nations’ next batch arrive sooner than ours?
A larger proportion of our vaccination workforce are volunteers, hence the concern they might then volunteer for other wards/jobs?

All the above is pure speculation but no doubt there are reasons. Some seem to have the idea that Drakeford just woke up and decided on this strategy without any consultation or discussion, which is plainly ridiculous.

I wont quote as it keeps adding more and more text. I do not think drakeford woke up and thought that. Bit I do believe he is misguided and also stubborn.

As I said., We need only wait a few more days. We only have capacity for a certain amount of pfizer vaccines at each vaccine centre. The likelihood of us running out is slim and even if we did, well it is unlikely to be long before receiving the next batch. if we only have X numbers of vaccine, what difference does is make if X people are vaccinated in 5 days or 15 when considering supply? But it can make a massive difference for immunity and or disease modification. I was meant to have my second dose by now. I am one of thousands delayed due to the change in advice. The theory being they could give it to more people. But it doesnt appear that is what they are doing.

Just sums the slow burning Welsh Goverment machine .

He worded it poorly but there is absolutely an argument for going slow and steady. I’m not fully clued up on the logistics but there is one guarantee. If we use up our entire vaccine supplies then the vaccinating nurses and doctors are going to go and book shifts back on the wards or GPs or surgeries or hospitals etc. These people don’t have the luxury to be sitting around for weeks without income. Then the new vaccine comes in and suddenly there is a massive lack of staff and due to how their work operates they're booked out for the next two weeks.

Wales has currently administered 160k of our 270k supply with no more doses expected until the start of Feb.
The issue with the Pfizer vaccine is it has quite particular storage requirements and when the next batch comes in a certain amount of workers will be needed to administer it. Accelerating the process now can cause issues in the future if when the next batch comes in there’s an inadequate number of staff available to administer the vaccines. Currently we might be able to vaccinate quicker than the targets set out and get all 270k doses given out a week early but when the next batch comes in an understaffed vaccination centre might only be able to administer 850 of the 1000 jabs they receive whereas if we administer 270k by the time of the target date and the next day another shipment comes in vaccination centres should be fully staffed and able to vaccinate the full amount.

As I said it’s very poorly worded but it’s not a strategy he’s come up with on a whim. It’s been discussed as a viable option.

no mate..that 110k vaccinations now could save save lives of people who will now die ? all these restrictions and he is running the vaccination role out as if its a time and motion experiment...

He does think it's better for people to potentially die than have people hang around doing nothing! How else can this be interpreted?

From what I understand this current batch equates to just 5.4% of the total vaccines required for Wales’ adult population. Drakeford is talking about slowing the role out of the remaining 110k to avoid complications with the role out at future stages. If the next batch comes in and is significantly larger, which due to increased production and better logistical understanding is likely, then having a reduced workforce could be more damaging than slowing the release of the remainder of this batch.

This isn’t something Drakeford has decided on his lonesome as some seem to think. This will have been discussed amongst dozens of people including experts in the various procedures of the role out. The 2 options aren’t “people die” or “people sitting around doing nothing”, it’s “x number of people could potentially die now” and “y number of people could potentially die later”. Presumably Y came out as the larger number, hence the current strategy. If this has been deemed an effective strategy then so be it.

And that ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the WAG

Where are you getting all this information from??

What your saying may well be true or partly true I really don’t know because part of the problem is that Drakeford and his motley crew are just so bad at communicating any important information to the public

They constantly contradict each other and as for Vaughan Gethin, never known someone go AWOL so much when there are difficult questions to answer. He’s only in his bloody spare bedroom can’t be that difficult to get hold of him for some answers

Which information? The vaccinated numbers and available dose numbers are fairly widely reported online. As for nurses and volunteer health care workers working on 2 week slots, I've got family and friends currently working in the NHS in varying roles. One of which works in a vaccine distribution centre in the Midlands and explained that their system is based around working in a single ward/area for a 2 week period. This is to stop excessive movement between wards.

As for the next batch of vaccines being larger than this one, that is admittedly only an assumption. But I think a sensible one. As more vaccines are approved, as production increases, etc, more will become available. Plus distribution lines have been established and capacity will have increased.

As I said I don't know the full discussions that have been had or ideas that have been proposed but the idea that Drakeford has just woken up this morning and decided this on a whim is ludicrous.

I am by no means an expert in any of the aspects of this vaccine role out but even I can quite easily think of some scenarios were this would be a necessary strategy:

Vaccinate 110k people this week, vaccination staff are told the next shipment doesn't arrive for 2 weeks, instead of being unemployed for 2 weeks they take up other jobs, suddenly it turns out the next shipment is a few days early but there's a reduced workforce to administer it so you have to throw away jabs that have gone off (I think this timeframe is ~3 days from opening the 1000 jab batch).

A trucker company cocks up the new paper work leaving the EU/entering the UK, suddenly all 110k people waiting for their second jab miss it and have essentially wasted jab 1, spreading out the jabs mean maybe only 25k miss the deadline for jab 2.

Similar scenario as previous. Vaccinate 110k people this week, 11 weeks time a truck bound for Wales skids off a road and crashes destroying 10's of thousands of doses, if 110k people are all at the 12 week deadline you need to redistribute jabs from first timers to deal with the reduced supply. If only 25k are at the deadline you have time to divert extra vaccines to replace the lost ones.

I totally agree that the communication of this has been awful but I will accept that much more knowledgeable people than I or anyone on this board will have evaluated every possibility to the extreme and if this is the outcome I accept that decision.

Are you some sort of lunatic?? Let’s not vaccinate as many people as possible in case a lorry carrying the vaccine crashes!!!

A massive oversimplification of my post. Much smarter people than me and people much more knowledgeable in this subject have come together and decided the most viable strategy is this one. I’m merely guessing what some uncontrollable variables might be that have led them to this decision. I could be completely wrong but no doubt there are contingency plans in place in the event that such unforeseen circumstances could occur. Admittedly maybe a truck crashing is too dramatic but there are numerous ways the supply chain and distribution could be affected.

To that one has to ask - why are we different to England, Northern Ireland and Scotland? If our policy is so good why are we the only ones doing it?

Presumably it is public health advising on this so why are the Welsh public health, with access to the same information as the others, taking this line in direct opposition to everyone else. Why is Mark Drakeford saying this is not a race? It takes approximately 21 days to develop an immune response to the vaccine. The sooner people have it the sooner we can get them up to speed with Anti bodies and T Cells.

Perhaps our distribution abilities were underestimated so if we continued at our pace we’d run out much earlier than predicted and before our next shipment?
Maybe the other nations’ next batch arrive sooner than ours?
A larger proportion of our vaccination workforce are volunteers, hence the concern they might then volunteer for other wards/jobs?

All the above is pure speculation but no doubt there are reasons. Some seem to have the idea that Drakeford just woke up and decided on this strategy without any consultation or discussion, which is plainly ridiculous.

tbh mate...i dont believe you actually believe any of this...its either a wind or your trying to improve your uni debating scores by practising on here.... and no ...considering his off the wall remarks thinking he just woke up thinking it is not a great stretch... its bonkers..

I wont quote as it keeps adding more and more text. I do not think drakeford woke up and thought that. Bit I do believe he is misguided and also stubborn.

As I said., We need only wait a few more days. We only have capacity for a certain amount of pfizer vaccines at each vaccine centre. The likelihood of us running out is slim and even if we did, well it is unlikely to be long before receiving the next batch. if we only have X numbers of vaccine, what difference does is make if X people are vaccinated in 5 days or 15 when considering supply? But it can make a massive difference for immunity and or disease modification. I was meant to have my second dose by now. I am one of thousands delayed due to the change in advice. The theory being they could give it to more people. But it doesnt appear that is what they are doing.

What doesn't appear to be facted into this is people like you and me who have had Pfizer vaccine need to have it within 12wks! now if it's been slowed down and there is a problem with delivery of vaccine he's referring to WG may have a problem for future vaccinations as got to prioritise 1st dose people 1st.. can envisage chaos if nit careful.

FFS - its not like xmas chocolates that you have to hold on to until easter.

Just shows him up for the idiot he is, no matter though most welsh people will vote them back in again after 21 years of them being in power at the assembly ----surely time for a change

I wont quote as it keeps adding more and more text. I do not think drakeford woke up and thought that. Bit I do believe he is misguided and also stubborn.

As I said., We need only wait a few more days. We only have capacity for a certain amount of pfizer vaccines at each vaccine centre. The likelihood of us running out is slim and even if we did, well it is unlikely to be long before receiving the next batch. if we only have X numbers of vaccine, what difference does is make if X people are vaccinated in 5 days or 15 when considering supply? But it can make a massive difference for immunity and or disease modification. I was meant to have my second dose by now. I am one of thousands delayed due to the change in advice. The theory being they could give it to more people. But it doesnt appear that is what they are doing.

What doesn't appear to be facted into this is people like you and me who have had Pfizer vaccine need to have it within 12wks! now if it's been slowed down and there is a problem with delivery of vaccine he's referring to WG may have a problem for future vaccinations as got to prioritise 1st dose people 1st.. can envisage chaos if nit careful.

Welsh Health Service ( devolved power) doesnt have the infrastructure for the Pfizer vax at -70C , so they are holding out for the AZ vax , which is why they are restricting the pfizer vax.

remember in May this year - you can vote them OUT

I wont quote as it keeps adding more and more text. I do not think drakeford woke up and thought that. Bit I do believe he is misguided and also stubborn.

As I said., We need only wait a few more days. We only have capacity for a certain amount of pfizer vaccines at each vaccine centre. The likelihood of us running out is slim and even if we did, well it is unlikely to be long before receiving the next batch. if we only have X numbers of vaccine, what difference does is make if X people are vaccinated in 5 days or 15 when considering supply? But it can make a massive difference for immunity and or disease modification. I was meant to have my second dose by now. I am one of thousands delayed due to the change in advice. The theory being they could give it to more people. But it doesnt appear that is what they are doing.

What doesn't appear to be facted into this is people like you and me who have had Pfizer vaccine need to have it within 12wks! now if it's been slowed down and there is a problem with delivery of vaccine he's referring to WG may have a problem for future vaccinations as got to prioritise 1st dose people 1st.. can envisage chaos if nit careful.

Welsh Health Service ( devolved power) doesnt have the infrastructure for the Pfizer vax at -70C , so they are holding out for the AZ vax , which is why they are restricting the pfizer vax.

remember in May this year - you can vote them OUT

That's good because the reason for slowing the vaccination out is not to waste it? What they going to do with the Pfizer vaccine they've got in storage if going to use this other vaccine instead? No matter how people try to come up with a rationale for his statement 2&2 do not make 4 more like 3 as it comes up short....