DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

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DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby TheHangedMan » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:07 pm

When are these losers going to realise that there is a wave, possibly tidal, moving against what most see as the norm.

Firstly it is unconstitutional to try to impeach a civilian in the US constitution.......the only reason I can see any basis for this facade is if they actually thought DT was still the President.....mmmmm.

Secondly, assuming they think he still is their President, how in the hell did they think that enough "Rebublicans" were going to turn.?

Money is no object in the pursuit of evil.....but what a waste of money and media time that was! This will all play out in the next few months. Nice one orange man, you live and die by the true constitution of the USA. :ayatollah:
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DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby piledriver64 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:34 pm

This is nothing to do with what was right and wrong.

Both parties voted along party lines.

Just glad this country doesn’t put justice in the hands of politicians like they do in the US.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby WestCoastBlue » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:41 pm

Firstly, Trump's 2nd impeachment happened Jan 13th. He was still President until January 20th which is when Biden was officially sworn in. So yes they correctly thought Trump was still president.

Secondly, Trump has not exactly been faithful to his Republican allies in the past few months. They may have been hoping more would turn on him. Also there are concerns amongst the Republican party of Trump running in 2024, a move which would almost certainly guarantee the Democrats a win. Had he not been acquitted I believe Trump would have been unable to run in 2024. Who knows, maybe some Republicans may think that siding with the Democrats would be a necessary move for the good of the party to avoid a large chunk of their voters splitting off in 2024.

As for this all playing out on the next few months, care to elaborate how you see this playing out? Some on here were very adamant back in November Trump would successfully overturn the election and serve his second term. (Some had a few more elaborate ideas also).
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Tonteg Bluebird » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:50 pm

Oh sh1t...they tried impeaching an "ex president", so all ex presidents like Bush, Clinton, Obama etc are f**ked now from their previous crimes...Trump has allowed the Dems to do all the work for him, they've opened the front door and made the biggest mistake of their lives... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... h-verdict/
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Blue78 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:04 pm

TheHangedMan wrote:When are these losers going to realise that there is a wave, possibly tidal, moving against what most see as the norm.

Firstly it is unconstitutional to try to impeach a civilian in the US constitution.......the only reason I can see any basis for this facade is if they actually thought DT was still the President.....mmmmm.

Secondly, assuming they think he still is their President, how in the hell did they think that enough "Rebublicans" were going to turn.?

Money is no object in the pursuit of evil.....but what a waste of money and media time that was! This will all play out in the next few months. Nice one orange man, you live and die by the true constitution of the USA. :ayatollah:


Trump was only a civilian when this trial went ahead because the republicans themselves delayed the impeachment - had they not, he would have still been president.

Mitch McConnell has just said that Trump was guilty and strongly hinted to he should be taken to criminal trial and he hasn’t ‘got away with it yet’ - he said the only reason he didn’t convict was because Trump is no longer president....because McConnell himself delayed the impeachment. Absolute hypocrisy.

Trump literally tried to steal an election, absolutely created the storm on Jan 6th and should have been found guilty if not for some self serving politicians coming to his rescue ... the type that he is apparently against.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby stickywicket » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:12 pm

Tonteg Bluebird wrote:Oh sh1t...they tried impeaching an "ex president", so all ex presidents like Bush, Clinton, Obama etc are f**ked now from their previous crimes...Trump has allowed the Dems to do all the work for him, they've opened the front door and made the biggest mistake of their lives... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... h-verdict/

To to be fair Clinton's defence that a blow job isn't sex was top draw.Never to be beaten.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Nuclearblue » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:12 pm

28B5F58B-CB71-4E61-AA0F-B183B7587ABE.jpeg
28B5F58B-CB71-4E61-AA0F-B183B7587ABE.jpeg (101.05 KiB) Viewed 2237 times
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Tonteg Bluebird » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:16 pm

stickywicket wrote:
Tonteg Bluebird wrote:Oh sh1t...they tried impeaching an "ex president", so all ex presidents like Bush, Clinton, Obama etc are f**ked now from their previous crimes...Trump has allowed the Dems to do all the work for him, they've opened the front door and made the biggest mistake of their lives... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... h-verdict/

To to be fair Clinton's defence that a blow job isn't sex was top draw.Never to be beaten.


Nobody can top that :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby WestCoastBlue » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:47 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
28B5F58B-CB71-4E61-AA0F-B183B7587ABE.jpeg


How big is your folder of memes and pictures for when Trump proves voter fraud and a rigged election and sends crooked Hilary and Sleepy Joe to a jail beyond the shiny new Mexican border wall? You could probably delete it if you need the hard drive space :thumbup:
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Sven » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:51 pm

I can't begin to explain why the OP is so wrong but I will try...

Donald J Trump was technically found GUILTY of the charges laid against him by simple majority

What didn't occur was a SUFFICIENT majority (2 thirds) to make it count

I have watched events avidly until the early hours of the mornimg and there is an almost universal condemnation of Donald J Trump, including by the leaders of his own Party the Retrumplicans

That they 'bottled' it (some would simply say 'find a route out') is going to be something they have to wrestle with for the rest of their lives

The 'people' won't forgive them either. Seven people died because of his incitement and many more were injured and even more families will be ruined by the actions of the surrectionists who were drawn in by his lies

Donald J Trump, ironically, is a busted flush and will find real 'friends' hard to come by going forward

Shame on Donald J Trump, shame on the Republican Party (seven honest people apart) and shame on those who were stupid enough to put their hats on a narcissistic despot...!
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby TheHangedMan » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:48 am

Sven wrote:I can't begin to explain why the OP is so wrong but I will try...

Donald J Trump was technically found GUILTY of the charges laid against him by simple majority

What didn't occur was a SUFFICIENT majority (2 thirds) to make it count

I have watched events avidly until the early hours of the mornimg and there is an almost universal condemnation of Donald J Trump, including by the leaders of his own Party the Retrumplicans

That they 'bottled' it (some would simply say 'find a route out') is going to be something they have to wrestle with for the rest of their lives

The 'people' won't forgive them either. Seven people died because of his incitement and many more were injured and even more families will be ruined by the actions of the surrectionists who were drawn in by his lies

Donald J Trump, ironically, is a busted flush and will find real 'friends' hard to come by going forward

Shame on Donald J Trump, shame on the Republican Party (seven honest people apart) and shame on those who were stupid enough to put their hats on a narcissistic despot...!

Chris, I truly feel humbled by your obvious total knowledge of the US system and what is right and wrong thereof. As you are so aware please tell me where the US constitution can impeach a citizen. As soon as he was not in office there was no case to answer....FACT. The question therein in lies, is he still in office????

There is a narrative, admittedly by the MSM, to which you know I dispute, that Donald J Trump is the anti-christ. All that comes out from him is obviously evil. It got so bad that recognised world platforms had to ban his speech!!! He was obviously so toxic, organising Antifa and BLM activists to "attack" the Capitol.

Stand back for one minute, do some research (not the BBC), and then see what really happened.

Trust me, when you understand that, you will start to get a grip on the lies you have been spun.

But I guess you don't want to understand, or question, or second guess the narrative you portray.....because if you did you firstly would be shocked and stunned, and after that would quickly follow the feeling of anger that something made you look so stupid.

But you are not stupid Chris........do the research. :bluebird:
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby skidemin » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:53 am

Sven wrote:I can't begin to explain why the OP is so wrong but I will try...

Donald J Trump was technically found GUILTY of the charges laid against him by simple majority

What didn't occur was a SUFFICIENT majority (2 thirds) to make it count

I have watched events avidly until the early hours of the mornimg and there is an almost universal condemnation of Donald J Trump, including by the leaders of his own Party the Retrumplicans

That they 'bottled' it (some would simply say 'find a route out') is going to be something they have to wrestle with for the rest of their lives

The 'people' won't forgive them either. Seven people died because of his incitement and many more were injured and even more families will be ruined by the actions of the surrectionists who were drawn in by his lies

Donald J Trump, ironically, is a busted flush and will find real 'friends' hard to come by going forward

Shame on Donald J Trump, shame on the Republican Party (seven honest people apart) and shame on those who were stupid enough to put their hats on a narcissistic despot...!



im sure the dems knew about the 2/3rds majority before they decided to make fools of themselves ... and waste all that money....
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby skidemin » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:28 am

piledriver64 wrote:This is nothing to do with what was right and wrong.

Both parties voted along party lines.

Just glad this country doesn’t put justice in the hands of politicians like they do in the US.



agree... certainly the dems were all going to vote to impeach no matter how little or much evidence...

and how many days did this nonsense last ? .. certainly not long enough to be anything other than a kangaroo court..
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby worcester_ccfc » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:02 am

Weird way to look at it, given its the establishment who have acquitted him.

Either way, hopefully those on all sides will draw a line under it all now so they can unite their country.

I did say before both times they tried to impeach him that it was all going to be academic, because he was always going to be acquitted by the Senate.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Bigmarkw » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:39 am

Trump is someone a lot of everyday people like and want. The establishment and media hate him because they can’t control him and that upsets them. They know hes the republicans best chance by far to win the next election and let’s be honest if the media didn’t have they own agenda and broadcast by far the most biased news reports I’ve ever seen trump would have one again.

Bottom line is trump is supported by a wide range of American citizens. It’s they country and they vote time people started to respect this, irrelevant of they personal beliefs.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Blue78 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:19 am

Bigmarkw wrote:Trump is someone a lot of everyday people like and want. The establishment and media hate him because they can’t control him and that upsets them. They know hes the republicans best chance by far to win the next election and let’s be honest if the media didn’t have they own agenda and broadcast by far the most biased news reports I’ve ever seen trump would have one again.

Bottom line is trump is supported by a wide range of American citizens. It’s they country and they vote time people started to respect this, irrelevant of they personal beliefs.


He is also a person that many other people despise and don’t want - and there is the the problem. He (not the party) is decisive and has ‘built’ himself on being deliberately just that.

Maybe the main stream media issue with him is the same as the 80M + who didn’t vote for him - namely his self serving reason for power. Seems he only has an issue with the media that question him - and even Fox were thrown under the bus when they started to challenge him. That is incredibly dangerous.

Here is a man who on camera, audio or Twitter has openly mocked disabled people, make racists remarks, talked about groping woman, failed to condemned far right groups when a young woman was killed, spun lie after lie about the elevation (more on this later), turned on his own VP when he wouldn’t go against the constitution and in true mafia style, hired someone to do his dirty work for him so he could keep his own hands clean - problem is Rudy was stupid enough to leave a trail of audio to show exactly what they were up to.

Even the court that Trump loaded with his own people, threw his case out.

On the point about election lies, there is a worrying physiological propaganda that politicians like Trump peddle.

In 2016 when he thought Clinton was going to win the election (even after voting was closed) he kept talking up how the system was rigged and floored and that was the only reason he’d lose. When he then won, he never ever questioned this ‘rigged’ voting system again until the 2020 election when he spun the same narrative before, during and after the election. There was no issue with the swing states in 2016 that he took back for the republicans...but apparently in 2020 those states are ‘corrupt’ and ‘always have been’.

Funnily enough his ‘pal’ Farage did exactly the same thing with Brexit - on the night of the vote, saying if it was 52-48 remain the system was rigged against them and they would keep fighting. Yet only a matter of hours later, apparently the system was perfect and anyone questioning the result was bitter.

He was found guilty last night by a significant majority and even the leader of his own party said that he was guilt in a damning statement - That system that Trump apparently derides so much saved him from being convicted as it rightly requires a 2/3 majority to avoid impeachment being decided based on size of party.

Anybody that thinks that this billionaire business man who has shown little desire for philanthropy, any history of investing in these communities in the past or shared any evidence that he has even paid taxes is ‘in it for the little man’ has frankly been totally taken in by his propaganda and lies in exactly the way that he planned.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:23 am

He didn't get impeached because there was no case against him that wouldn't that set precedent against a lot of senior Democrats as well including Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi and especially Maxine Waters who went passed the line both Trump and other politicians tend to dance and explicitly called for political violence, twice.

Trump's speech literally called for people to patriotically a peacefully march and was still going at the time the capitol was 'stormed.'

In the meantime while this expensive distraction has been going on the Biden administration has signed more executive orders than Obama, Bush and Clinton combined, many of which are ill thought out and a complete odds with each other.

Biden is nothing more than a puppet but the people behind him pulling the strings are truly terrifying but to be honest impressively masterful in a machevellian way.

The Trump impeachment trial was a circus act, classic misdirection and nothing more.

America will return to war somewhere this year. They'll go back to bombing kids who just happened to be in the way.

Trump was the first president in decades not to start a war, just remember that when another evil dictator happens to emerge in the middle East and causes Team America to save the day by bombing the shit out of civillians.

But for now though Orange Man Bad, Senile Man Good I guess.

Now who wants some cake...
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Bigmarkw » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:15 am

Blue78 wrote:
Bigmarkw wrote:Trump is someone a lot of everyday people like and want. The establishment and media hate him because they can’t control him and that upsets them. They know hes the republicans best chance by far to win the next election and let’s be honest if the media didn’t have they own agenda and broadcast by far the most biased news reports I’ve ever seen trump would have one again.

Bottom line is trump is supported by a wide range of American citizens. It’s they country and they vote time people started to respect this, irrelevant of they personal beliefs.


He is also a person that many other people despise and don’t want - and there is the the problem. He (not the party) is decisive and has ‘built’ himself on being deliberately just that.

Maybe the main stream media issue with him is the same as the 80M + who didn’t vote for him - namely his self serving reason for power. Seems he only has an issue with the media that question him - and even Fox were thrown under the bus when they started to challenge him. That is incredibly dangerous.

Here is a man who on camera, audio or Twitter has openly mocked disabled people, make racists remarks, talked about groping woman, failed to condemned far right groups when a young woman was killed, spun lie after lie about the elevation (more on this later), turned on his own VP when he wouldn’t go against the constitution and in true mafia style, hired someone to do his dirty work for him so he could keep his own hands clean - problem is Rudy was stupid enough to leave a trail of audio to show exactly what they were up to.

Even the court that Trump loaded with his own people, threw his case out.

On the point about election lies, there is a worrying physiological propaganda that politicians like Trump peddle.

In 2016 when he thought Clinton was going to win the election (even after voting was closed) he kept talking up how the system was rigged and floored and that was the only reason he’d lose. When he then won, he never ever questioned this ‘rigged’ voting system again until the 2020 election when he spun the same narrative before, during and after the election. There was no issue with the swing states in 2016 that he took back for the republicans...but apparently in 2020 those states are ‘corrupt’ and ‘always have been’.

Funnily enough his ‘pal’ Farage did exactly the same thing with Brexit - on the night of the vote, saying if it was 52-48 remain the system was rigged against them and they would keep fighting. Yet only a matter of hours later, apparently the system was perfect and anyone questioning the result was bitter.

He was found guilty last night by a significant majority and even the leader of his own party said that he was guilt in a damning statement - That system that Trump apparently derides so much saved him from being convicted as it rightly requires a 2/3 majority to avoid impeachment being decided based on size of party.

Anybody that thinks that this billionaire business man who has shown little desire for philanthropy, any history of investing in these communities in the past or shared any evidence that he has even paid taxes is ‘in it for the little man’ has frankly been totally taken in by his propaganda and lies in exactly the way that he planned.


I’m afraid you’re missing the point. I’m not her to defend him or say he’s right or wrong. The fact is he lives in a free country and people are allowed to vote and this is what they wanted, people believe in what he stands for over there a break from the norm.

If we had an equivalent over here I believe they would challenge as well. But over here the establishment is more proof to keep out people who the public want if it doesn’t sit with they agenda.

Like I said before forget what he stands for a lot of free people in USA voted for him, we need to respect that he hasn’t cheated his way there anymore than Biden, who I actually think had a massive unfair advantage brainwashing people to vote for him. Funny how people forget how anti black he been when helping make laws.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:32 am

ealing_ayatollah wrote:He didn't get impeached because there was no case against him that wouldn't that set precedent against a lot of senior Democrats as well including Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi and especially Maxine Waters who went passed the line both Trump and other politicians tend to dance and explicitly called for political violence, twice.

Trump's speech literally called for people to patriotically a peacefully march and was still going at the time the capitol was 'stormed.'

In the meantime while this expensive distraction has been going on the Biden administration has signed more executive orders than Obama, Bush and Clinton combined, many of which are ill thought out and a complete odds with each other.

Biden is nothing more than a puppet but the people behind him pulling the strings are truly terrifying but to be honest impressively masterful in a machevellian way.

The Trump impeachment trial was a circus act, classic misdirection and nothing more.

America will return to war somewhere this year. They'll go back to bombing kids who just happened to be in the way.

Trump was the first president in decades not to start a war, just remember that when another evil dictator happens to emerge in the middle East and causes Team America to save the day by bombing the shit out of civillians.

But for now though Orange Man Bad, Senile Man Good I guess.

Now who wants some cake...

'Trump's speech literally called for people to patriotically a peacefully march and was still going at the time the capitol was 'stormed.'' Perhaps the hundreds of times he called the election rigged and that people were stealing it might have played a part.

'Biden administration has signed more executive orders than Obama, Bush and Clinton combined'.
A) Thats completely wrong, he's at around 1/10th of obamas alone (who had a similar amount to trump)
B) Why is that bad?
C) Which do you disagree with? Looking at the list you've got: racial equality, census, corona response, anti discrimination, ethics, climate change, and masks for the first 7.

'They'll go back to bombing kids who just happened to be in the way.
Trump was the first president in decades not to start a war'

Casually ignoring the huge increase in bombs dropped under him. In 8 years Clinton dropped 70,000 bombs and Obama dropped 100,000, in 3 years trump dropped 72,000. According to the UN, the US killed more civilians than taliban in 2019. I'm sure everyone in the middle East was sleeping safely when trump was in charge.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Nuclearblue » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:55 am

WestCoastBlue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
The attachment 28B5F58B-CB71-4E61-AA0F-B183B7587ABE.jpeg is no longer available


How big is your folder of memes and pictures for when Trump proves voter fraud and a rigged election and sends crooked Hilary and Sleepy Joe to a jail beyond the shiny new Mexican border wall? You could probably delete it if you need the hard drive space :thumbup:


E46465F8-8357-4BB9-A204-17366FF06847.jpeg
E46465F8-8357-4BB9-A204-17366FF06847.jpeg (64.97 KiB) Viewed 1777 times
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:00 pm

Nuclearblue wrote:
WestCoastBlue wrote:
Nuclearblue wrote:
28B5F58B-CB71-4E61-AA0F-B183B7587ABE.jpeg


How big is your folder of memes and pictures for when Trump proves voter fraud and a rigged election and sends crooked Hilary and Sleepy Joe to a jail beyond the shiny new Mexican border wall? You could probably delete it if you need the hard drive space :thumbup:


E46465F8-8357-4BB9-A204-17366FF06847.jpeg

Do your 2 time election winner one.
Oh wait...
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby AHERNE » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:00 pm

When are you Trump supporters going to move on? He lost. Get over it.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby TheHangedMan » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:41 pm

AHERNE wrote:When are you Trump supporters going to move on? He lost. Get over it.

We have moved on, and also the US military have moved on, and also President Trump himself has moved on.

What was quite extraordinary was that the newly "elected" could not move on. I don't purpport to know the US consitition inside and out......but I have seen enough to suggest that his "impeachment" was unconstitutional.

Let me tell you this, it's one thing agreeing with law breakers when it does not affect you, but as it gets closer to your door you may start to ask more pertinent questions!
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby skidemin » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:21 pm

AHERNE wrote:When are you Trump supporters going to move on? He lost. Get over it.




yes he lost . and the very first thing the Democratic party do is try to unite the population by attempting to impeach someone 70 odd million Americans had just voted for :? ....followed by failure to do so.. followed by more name calling... thats really leaving it go ..
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:49 pm

CCFCJosh75 wrote:Perhaps the hundreds of times he called the election rigged and that people were stealing it might have played a part.


Is playing a 'part enough' for impeachment on the ground of incitement or just more Orange Man Bad?

Let's look at some undeniable facts around the election:

Biden had 13Million more votes than Obama despite not really campaigning at all.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-popular-vote-record-barack-obama-us-presidential-election-donald-trump/
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/09/joe-bide ... tion-trump

Biden lost all but one bellwether county, something that has never happened in the history of US elections and 19 of these had called every election since 1980 - Trump won 18 of the 19
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/11/18/biden-win-ends-streak-for-us-election-bellwethers/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... unties-go/

Trump is the only sitting President since John Quincy Adams almost a hundred years ago to have increased his vote and not get re-elected
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

More people voted for Trump than any other sitting president.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

Trump increased his vote amongst minority voters and historically whenever a republican does this they get re-elected.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-vote-rising-among-blacks-hispanics-despite-conventional-wisdom-ncna1245787

The undercard votes on Biden tickets were again at record lows compared not just to US elections but pretty much any free and fair election in the world.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/bidens-popular-vote-win-didnt-help-house-democrats/617211/

Biden only made grounds in the key states he needed to win
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency

The democrats took heavy losses in the house and senate across the board except in the swing states.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/15/934586955/house-democrats-dissect-what-went-wrong-and-how-to-rebound-from-losses

Mail-in voting which is open to widespread fraud was heavily used in a US election for the first time and it was pushed hard by the democrats.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26487418
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... n-analysis

Changes to voting regulations and legislations were introduced in key states shortly before the election
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/9-states-where-rules-voting-have-been-changed-or-challenged-n1026886

There isn't a single thing in the above list that is remotely questionable and looking at the above it is reasonable assertion to suggest the election could have been open to fraud. I'm not saying fraud happened, just that it could have and the above list of fully verifiable facts that statistically are all anomalous when combined would raise enough legitimate doubts to warrant an investigation to make sure the election was able to hold up to scrutiny.

This means Trump, as sitting president during the 2020 election, had a legal, constitutional and moral duty to question the veracity of the results fully within the remit of the US legal system on behalf of the 74 million people who voted for him to ensure that all votes were treated equally as per the 14th Amendment.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interact ... ndment-xiv

Equally, incitement has a very distinct legal definition in the US: the term “to incite a riot”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2102

Nothing he has said at any point was even close to incitement, and every move he made was not only made through the legal channels but technically it can be argued he was obligated to make as sitting President to uphold the constitution.

The whole impeachment was never ever going to hold water.

What I found interesting was how shite Trump's lawyers were, I get that they knew it never really mattered anyway, but with the publicity surrounding the impeachment, trial I'm surprised they didn't go to town on ripping the democrats to shreds. That plus the lack of pardon for Assange suggests a deal has been done for something, but I'm not sure what.
I'm just a wine drinking monkey that has a penchant for fine bannanas. You can check out my human alter-ego singing and speaking nonsense on the you tube if you like @ https://www.youtube.com/user/sibaronimusic
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby Sven » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:57 pm

TheHangedMan wrote:
Sven wrote:I can't begin to explain why the OP is so wrong but I will try...

Donald J Trump was technically found GUILTY of the charges laid against him by simple majority

What didn't occur was a SUFFICIENT majority (2 thirds) to make it count

I have watched events avidly until the early hours of the mornimg and there is an almost universal condemnation of Donald J Trump, including by the leaders of his own Party the Retrumplicans

That they 'bottled' it (some would simply say 'find a route out') is going to be something they have to wrestle with for the rest of their lives

The 'people' won't forgive them either. Seven people died because of his incitement and many more were injured and even more families will be ruined by the actions of the surrectionists who were drawn in by his lies

Donald J Trump, ironically, is a busted flush and will find real 'friends' hard to come by going forward

Shame on Donald J Trump, shame on the Republican Party (seven honest people apart) and shame on those who were stupid enough to put their hats on a narcissistic despot...!

Chris, I truly feel humbled by your obvious total knowledge of the US system and what is right and wrong thereof. As you are so aware please tell me where the US constitution can impeach a citizen. As soon as he was not in office there was no case to answer....FACT. The question therein in lies, is he still in office????

There is a narrative, admittedly by the MSM, to which you know I dispute, that Donald J Trump is the anti-christ. All that comes out from him is obviously evil. It got so bad that recognised world platforms had to ban his speech!!! He was obviously so toxic, organising Antifa and BLM activists to "attack" the Capitol.

Stand back for one minute, do some research (not the BBC), and then see what really happened.

Trust me, when you understand that, you will start to get a grip on the lies you have been spun.

But I guess you don't want to understand, or question, or second guess the narrative you portray.....because if you did you firstly would be shocked and stunned, and after that would quickly follow the feeling of anger that something made you look so stupid.

But you are not stupid Chris........do the research. :bluebird:

I haven't watched the Beeb (or ITV) for some time now; I'm bored of the UK's Covid obsession that seemingly has to command every single news briefing regardless of whether there is anything really new or not

But the Trump thing is all about opinion and I think are poles apart in our thinking and I'm not sure either of us is fully right or wrong

One of the big problems in the USA (I watch their news programmes) is that the political hierarchy tend to be as partisan as any I have seen and that doesn't help in such circumstances as these

I haven't once said Trump was the quote "anti-Christ"; it isn't something I would use as an analogy. However, I do believe Trump has issues, including narcissism, which make him unable to take on advice and information from outside his ow head that might just have made him a betterPresident; a bit like Tony Blair when he made all those well meant but ultimately undeliverable promises back in the 90's

Thos so-called 'platforms' banned Trump, as they do with others, for what he said and the lies he was putting out there. It's not hard to understand; he was peddling lies from Day One of his entrance into the political arena

I was in Miami when the first impeachment was being laid and I watched with incredulity as the 'powers that be' went so hard in to discredit and malign the new POTUS. His seat wasn't even Luke warm

But having watched him I the years since, I can only conclude that the man is not a person that should hold such high office and even his own Party (maybe with political motives) now admit that and it was only the 'unconstitutional' argument (to which no one has definitively answered) you mentioned above that gave the Republicns the leeway to justify their 'Not Guilty' votes that history will ultimately be the jury of

As always, I respect your views and appreciate the tone in which we are able to converse :ayatollah:
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their gutter level and beat you with experience!"
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby skidemin » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:19 pm

worcester_ccfc wrote:Weird way to look at it, given its the establishment who have acquitted him.

Either way, hopefully those on all sides will draw a line under it all now so they can unite their country.

I did say before both times they tried to impeach him that it was all going to be academic, because he was always going to be acquitted by the Senate.




yep its called a witch hunt.... its been a whole term of fighting off one mud slinging attack after another...another attempted impeachment to put on his CV.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:22 pm

Sven wrote:But having watched him I the years since, I can only conclude that the man is not a person that should hold such high officef


The alternative view perhaps being when you have nothing but career politicians in place (Biden, Pelosi and Schumer have an incredible 114 years in office between them) then perhaps the only alternative however unpalatable it might be for some, is a bombastic narcissist from the outside to gatecrash the whole party and stir shit up.

Personally, I think what comes next from the American right (I'm not sure the Republicans will survive or if there will be a breakaway party) will be a leader that straddles the more traditional politicians role and whatever the hell Trump was.

Ted Cruz is playing the game well at the moment and could be that man. I'm also interested to see what Tulsi Gabbard will do in the next few years. She could bring a lot of people from the left to a newly formed party if it were to happen.

For the next four years though may best is we can just expect career politicians to do corrupt career politician things.


Sven wrote:As always, I respect your views and appreciate the tone in which we are able to converse :ayatollah:


That is the important thing we should all remember. Good ideas only get tested out by honest discussions. Well said Sven. :ayatollah:
I'm just a wine drinking monkey that has a penchant for fine bannanas. You can check out my human alter-ego singing and speaking nonsense on the you tube if you like @ https://www.youtube.com/user/sibaronimusic
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby CCFCJosh75 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:25 pm

ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Perhaps the hundreds of times he called the election rigged and that people were stealing it might have played a part.


Is playing a 'part enough' for impeachment on the ground of incitement or just more Orange Man Bad?

Let's look at some undeniable facts around the election:

Biden had 13Million more votes than Obama despite not really campaigning at all.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-popular-vote-record-barack-obama-us-presidential-election-donald-trump/
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/09/joe-bide ... tion-trump

Biden lost all but one bellwether county, something that has never happened in the history of US elections and 19 of these had called every election since 1980 - Trump won 18 of the 19
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/11/18/biden-win-ends-streak-for-us-election-bellwethers/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... unties-go/

Trump is the only sitting President since John Quincy Adams almost a hundred years ago to have increased his vote and not get re-elected
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

More people voted for Trump than any other sitting president.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

Trump increased his vote amongst minority voters and historically whenever a republican does this they get re-elected.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-vote-rising-among-blacks-hispanics-despite-conventional-wisdom-ncna1245787

The undercard votes on Biden tickets were again at record lows compared not just to US elections but pretty much any free and fair election in the world.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/bidens-popular-vote-win-didnt-help-house-democrats/617211/

Biden only made grounds in the key states he needed to win
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency

The democrats took heavy losses in the house and senate across the board except in the swing states.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/15/934586955/house-democrats-dissect-what-went-wrong-and-how-to-rebound-from-losses

Mail-in voting which is open to widespread fraud was heavily used in a US election for the first time and it was pushed hard by the democrats.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26487418
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... n-analysis

Changes to voting regulations and legislations were introduced in key states shortly before the election
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/9-states-where-rules-voting-have-been-changed-or-challenged-n1026886

There isn't a single thing in the above list that is remotely questionable and looking at the above it is reasonable assertion to suggest the election could have been open to fraud. I'm not saying fraud happened, just that it could have and the above list of fully verifiable facts that statistically are all anomalous when combined would raise enough legitimate doubts to warrant an investigation to make sure the election was able to hold up to scrutiny.

This means Trump, as sitting president during the 2020 election, had a legal, constitutional and moral duty to question the veracity of the results fully within the remit of the US legal system on behalf of the 74 million people who voted for him to ensure that all votes were treated equally as per the 14th Amendment.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interact ... ndment-xiv

Equally, incitement has a very distinct legal definition in the US: the term “to incite a riot”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2102

Nothing he has said at any point was even close to incitement, and every move he made was not only made through the legal channels but technically it can be argued he was obligated to make as sitting President to uphold the constitution.

The whole impeachment was never ever going to hold water.

What I found interesting was how shite Trump's lawyers were, I get that they knew it never really mattered anyway, but with the publicity surrounding the impeachment, trial I'm surprised they didn't go to town on ripping the democrats to shreds. That plus the lack of pardon for Assange suggests a deal has been done for something, but I'm not sure what.


That does read like 'we had more possession and more shots so we deserve to win'. If only the hundreds of law suits he's started in courts packed with republicans could prove anything.

For the mail in voter fraud, didn't trump reject laws for tightening votes?
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Re: DONALD TRUMP defies the ESTABLISHMENT again...

Postby skidemin » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:22 pm

ealing_ayatollah wrote:
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Perhaps the hundreds of times he called the election rigged and that people were stealing it might have played a part.


Is playing a 'part enough' for impeachment on the ground of incitement or just more Orange Man Bad?

Let's look at some undeniable facts around the election:

Biden had 13Million more votes than Obama despite not really campaigning at all.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-popular-vote-record-barack-obama-us-presidential-election-donald-trump/
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/09/joe-bide ... tion-trump

Biden lost all but one bellwether county, something that has never happened in the history of US elections and 19 of these had called every election since 1980 - Trump won 18 of the 19
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/11/18/biden-win-ends-streak-for-us-election-bellwethers/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... unties-go/

Trump is the only sitting President since John Quincy Adams almost a hundred years ago to have increased his vote and not get re-elected
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

More people voted for Trump than any other sitting president.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election

Trump increased his vote amongst minority voters and historically whenever a republican does this they get re-elected.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-vote-rising-among-blacks-hispanics-despite-conventional-wisdom-ncna1245787

The undercard votes on Biden tickets were again at record lows compared not just to US elections but pretty much any free and fair election in the world.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/11/bidens-popular-vote-win-didnt-help-house-democrats/617211/

Biden only made grounds in the key states he needed to win
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency

The democrats took heavy losses in the house and senate across the board except in the swing states.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/15/934586955/house-democrats-dissect-what-went-wrong-and-how-to-rebound-from-losses

Mail-in voting which is open to widespread fraud was heavily used in a US election for the first time and it was pushed hard by the democrats.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26487418
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... n-analysis

Changes to voting regulations and legislations were introduced in key states shortly before the election
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/9-states-where-rules-voting-have-been-changed-or-challenged-n1026886

There isn't a single thing in the above list that is remotely questionable and looking at the above it is reasonable assertion to suggest the election could have been open to fraud. I'm not saying fraud happened, just that it could have and the above list of fully verifiable facts that statistically are all anomalous when combined would raise enough legitimate doubts to warrant an investigation to make sure the election was able to hold up to scrutiny.

This means Trump, as sitting president during the 2020 election, had a legal, constitutional and moral duty to question the veracity of the results fully within the remit of the US legal system on behalf of the 74 million people who voted for him to ensure that all votes were treated equally as per the 14th Amendment.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interact ... ndment-xiv

Equally, incitement has a very distinct legal definition in the US: the term “to incite a riot”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2102

Nothing he has said at any point was even close to incitement, and every move he made was not only made through the legal channels but technically it can be argued he was obligated to make as sitting President to uphold the constitution.

The whole impeachment was never ever going to hold water.

What I found interesting was how shite Trump's lawyers were, I get that they knew it never really mattered anyway, but with the publicity surrounding the impeachment, trial I'm surprised they didn't go to town on ripping the democrats to shreds. That plus the lack of pardon for Assange suggests a deal has been done for something, but I'm not sure what.



on your last but one point Ted Cruz claims he asked Trumps lawyers to go easy as they had already won but there was a chance they could p155 people off...
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