Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

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Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby maccydee » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:01 pm

In my opinion.

I just don’t think he would have had the chance to get the confidence.

I know people say that footballers shouldn’t be so reliant on confidence but it’s so important in so many ways.

I’m an air traffic controller in the military and in my last job was an instructor. The RAF did a lot work on the effects of confidence on fast jet pilots in training. Half of them were given performance coaching and half weren’t. These were high quality individuals who were the best throughout all the training they had received.

It was found that performance coaching had a significant effect on them mainly because it improved their confidence. After the success of this it was decided as best practise and we utilised it in the training of air traffic controllers. This also has a positive effect.

Confidence is a key part in performance. For some it’s massive. I believe this to be the case for Josh Murphy. Thankfully Mick seems to have worked out how to get the best out of Josh. Had we fans at the game I don’t think this would have been possible. Too many fans had given up on him and were quick to get on his back.

I hope this is remembered when we get back in the ground.
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Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there

Postby Bakedalasker » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:16 pm

About time the RAF adapted this.

My experience was the opposite in the RAF. It was a culture of belittling mainly from the SNCO's who hid behind their rank for protection. I've met a few ex SNCO's in civvy street who have brought that attitude with them and all have failed.

As I said in another post the SAS where the first to adapt this new culture while all other services stalled on it. It's why our SAS are the best and the other services are lacking.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there

Postby skidemin » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:17 pm

no mate your wrong.... they need to pay the crap pilots more money ..simples...
money overides all human traits.. at least thats what i keep reading on here .
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there

Postby maccydee » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:14 pm

Bakedalasker wrote:About time the RAF adapted this.

My experience was the opposite in the RAF. It was a culture of belittling mainly from the SNCO's who hid behind their rank for protection. I've met a few ex SNCO's in civvy street who have brought that attitude with them and all have failed.

As I said in another post the SAS where the first to adapt this new culture while all other services stalled on it. It's why our SAS are the best and the other services are lacking.


In my job confidence is massive. As it is being a pilot.

The confidence in a dynamic environment is from doing something rather than procrastinating. Time is paramount in ATC and aviation.

Some of the SNCOs you have come across may well need to go the other way. A regiment Sgt for example needs to tell his lads what to do and when as his lads often (not always) need a different skill set.

But you are right about some of the people in the military. It’s always called old school. Had a WO at Shawbury who simply could not fit into a 21st century military. Awful bloke and a massive bully. Struggling in civy street from what I hear.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there

Postby Bakedalasker » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:39 pm

maccydee wrote:
Bakedalasker wrote:About time the RAF adapted this.

My experience was the opposite in the RAF. It was a culture of belittling mainly from the SNCO's who hid behind their rank for protection. I've met a few ex SNCO's in civvy street who have brought that attitude with them and all have failed.

As I said in another post the SAS where the first to adapt this new culture while all other services stalled on it. It's why our SAS are the best and the other services are lacking.


In my job confidence is massive. As it is being a pilot.

The confidence in a dynamic environment is from doing something rather than procrastinating. Time is paramount in ATC and aviation.

Some of the SNCOs you have come across may well need to go the other way. A regiment Sgt for example needs to tell his lads what to do and when as his lads often (not always) need a different skill set.

But you are right about some of the people in the military. It’s always called old school. Had a WO at Shawbury who simply could not fit into a 21st century military. Awful bloke and a massive bully. Struggling in civy street from what I hear.


I remember you telling me about this WO. It takes one person in authority to screw it up.

One job I walked out on was because of an ex WO who fitted that bill. Everything I did and worked out with my oppo's he seem to go against. It was as if it was drummed into him to go against his subordinates. How companies take on people like that then keep them on is beyond me.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there

Postby maccydee » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:27 pm

Bakedalasker wrote:
maccydee wrote:
Bakedalasker wrote:About time the RAF adapted this.

My experience was the opposite in the RAF. It was a culture of belittling mainly from the SNCO's who hid behind their rank for protection. I've met a few ex SNCO's in civvy street who have brought that attitude with them and all have failed.

As I said in another post the SAS where the first to adapt this new culture while all other services stalled on it. It's why our SAS are the best and the other services are lacking.


In my job confidence is massive. As it is being a pilot.

The confidence in a dynamic environment is from doing something rather than procrastinating. Time is paramount in ATC and aviation.

Some of the SNCOs you have come across may well need to go the other way. A regiment Sgt for example needs to tell his lads what to do and when as his lads often (not always) need a different skill set.

But you are right about some of the people in the military. It’s always called old school. Had a WO at Shawbury who simply could not fit into a 21st century military. Awful bloke and a massive bully. Struggling in civy street from what I hear.


I remember you telling me about this WO. It takes one person in authority to screw it up.

One job I walked out on was because of an ex WO who fitted that bill. Everything I did and worked out with my oppo's he seem to go against. It was as if it was drummed into him to go against his subordinates. How companies take on people like that then keep them on is beyond me.


Unfortunately there are plenty.

They are from a different era.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby Sven » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:59 am

maccydee wrote:In my opinion.

I just don’t think he would have had the chance to get the confidence.

I know people say that footballers shouldn’t be so reliant on confidence but it’s so important in so many ways.

I’m an air traffic controller in the military and in my last job was an instructor. The RAF did a lot work on the effects of confidence on fast jet pilots in training. Half of them were given performance coaching and half weren’t. These were high quality individuals who were the best throughout all the training they had received.

It was found that performance coaching had a significant effect on them mainly because it improved their confidence. After the success of this it was decided as best practise and we utilised it in the training of air traffic controllers. This also has a positive effect.

Confidence is a key part in performance. For some it’s massive. I believe this to be the case for Josh Murphy. Thankfully Mick seems to have worked out how to get the best out of Josh. Had we fans at the game I don’t think this would have been possible. Too many fans had given up on him and were quick to get on his back.

I hope this is remembered when we get back in the ground.

Would he not? :?

Who can categorically say? But either way, I'm glad he's becoming the player he promised to be...! :ayatollah:
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their gutter level and beat you with experience!"
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby Bridgwater Blue » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 am

Great thread and debate. It also shows the interesting careers / roles we have outside this message board. With the exception of a few trolls over the years the debates on here are always interesting.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby ReesWestonSuperMare » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:45 am

I know a few current and ex military. Like life in general - there are always a few bullying / controlling / belittling individuals - the RAF is certainly no different.

However - from what I know of what happens in most military organisations - they are very much at the forefront of leadership / confidence. In certain ways you need some individuals to bring down the attitude of some recruits. before they work on building it back up. The problem comes when they pick on the kid who is already short on confidence - it will kill them inside.

I think that's a bit what Josh Murphy is like. He just needs to be left alone to do his job. He cant handle some brash cockney window cleaner playing the role of the big I AM. Which I think Harris was like (Bellamy is certainly like this - which is why he will always have problems with leadership of others).

What would we rather? a player full of confidence or a player scared to say boo to a goose ?
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby bluecityblue » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:31 am

I worked in Oil & Gas in the North Sea. The company I worked for hired lots of ex military. Some started a whole new career, training as adults from the bottom same as a 16 year old. Some very interesting stories, one was a nuke controller of some sort on the subs!
I had a mechanical superintendent who came from the Navy, nice enough, not mechanically trained, extremely efficient and proactive but struggled to comprehend that our job didn’t run like a military operation.
Then there was the high ranking who came straight into the top roles, site manager, one a big guy, silver spoon merchant, stand on tip toes look down his nose at you, officer school no doubt but I’m no expert. Struggled with the fact that the workforce had an opinion and that his word wasn’t gospel. He would hold a meeting TELLING us this and that, but once we disagreed or raised a concern he lost his composure. The other site manager was a very short man, massive short man syndrome. I had a meeting with him about me being made redundant. He did not like me telling him how it was, all his faults, all the companies faults, it was a common theme among all the work force, good tradesmen, rubbish unqualified leadership, we ended up shouting at each other. He clearly was not used to subordinates giving their opinions.
I have no problem with ex military starting a new career and even getting a small advantage over others, they risked their lives for us, but I don’t like it when just because they were high ranking they can jump over peoples heads in civvy street.

Excellent point about Murphy, I’ll admit I gave up on him ages ago and would’ve been pissed off from the start if he was playing. He’s excelled under MMc, and I’m a big fan again,
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby maccydee » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:04 am

bluecityblue wrote:I worked in Oil & Gas in the North Sea. The company I worked for hired lots of ex military. Some started a whole new career, training as adults from the bottom same as a 16 year old. Some very interesting stories, one was a nuke controller of some sort on the subs!
I had a mechanical superintendent who came from the Navy, nice enough, not mechanically trained, extremely efficient and proactive but struggled to comprehend that our job didn’t run like a military operation.
Then there was the high ranking who came straight into the top roles, site manager, one a big guy, silver spoon merchant, stand on tip toes look down his nose at you, officer school no doubt but I’m no expert. Struggled with the fact that the workforce had an opinion and that his word wasn’t gospel. He would hold a meeting TELLING us this and that, but once we disagreed or raised a concern he lost his composure. The other site manager was a very short man, massive short man syndrome. I had a meeting with him about me being made redundant. He did not like me telling him how it was, all his faults, all the companies faults, it was a common theme among all the work force, good tradesmen, rubbish unqualified leadership, we ended up shouting at each other. He clearly was not used to subordinates giving their opinions.
I have no problem with ex military starting a new career and even getting a small advantage over others, they risked their lives for us, but I don’t like it when just because they were high ranking they can jump over peoples heads in civvy street.

Excellent point about Murphy, I’ll admit I gave up on him ages ago and would’ve been pissed off from the start if he was playing. He’s excelled under MMc, and I’m a big fan again,


I firmly believe that good leaders are born not made. While we can give courses and ideas to assist the leader is the person and they have to have something about them to be good at it.

I have worked under all sorts. All have had the same courses. My current boss is as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

My ex wife worked in spec savers and her boss was a brilliant leader. Never had a course in his life.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby Escott1927 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:43 pm

I think its more to do with Micks man management and that the current system suits him much better as a player. He was asked to do too much defensively under warnock and Harris, which isn't his game. Under harris we played with no width either. Pretty much took him out of the game.

Murphy is definitely a confidence player and the crowd do influence players-good or bad. But fans are pretty fickle, it only takes a few silky runs, a killer pass or a goal and they can go from slagging a player off to singing his name pretty quickly. And Murphy is doing all of that at the moment.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby maccydee » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:00 pm

Escott1927 wrote:I think its more to do with Micks man management and that the current system suits him much better as a player. He was asked to do too much defensively under warnock and Harris, which isn't his game. Under harris we played with no width either. Pretty much took him out of the game.

Murphy is definitely a confidence player and the crowd do influence players-good or bad. But fans are pretty fickle, it only takes a few silky runs, a killer pass or a goal and they can go from slagging a player off to singing his name pretty quickly. And Murphy is doing all of that at the moment.


Totally agree with most of what you say. The fans getting behind players has a huge positive impact on some. Gunnarsson a classic of this.

However with our fans. They quickly get on Murphy’s back if he fails to beat a player. As he’s often close to the stands it stood out more.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there

Postby WestCoastBlue » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:28 pm

skidemin wrote:no mate your wrong.... they need to pay the crap pilots more money ..simples...
money overides all human traits.. at least thats what i keep reading on here .


Can't be depressed if you're rich either is what I've been told. These pilots and footballers just need to get a grip if you ask me :old:
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby Bluebina » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:43 pm

Escott1927 wrote:I think its more to do with Micks man management and that the current system suits him much better as a player. He was asked to do too much defensively under warnock and Harris, which isn't his game. Under harris we played with no width either. Pretty much took him out of the game.

Murphy is definitely a confidence player and the crowd do influence players-good or bad. But fans are pretty fickle, it only takes a few silky runs, a killer pass or a goal and they can go from slagging a player off to singing his name pretty quickly. And Murphy is doing all of that at the moment.



I think you are both right it's all of those reasons, some players have benefited, I thought a few of them needed a crowd at the end of Harris as Manager, if we had a crowd they would have given them a right kick up the backside and made them try harder.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby maccydee » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:56 pm

Bluebina wrote:
Escott1927 wrote:I think its more to do with Micks man management and that the current system suits him much better as a player. He was asked to do too much defensively under warnock and Harris, which isn't his game. Under harris we played with no width either. Pretty much took him out of the game.

Murphy is definitely a confidence player and the crowd do influence players-good or bad. But fans are pretty fickle, it only takes a few silky runs, a killer pass or a goal and they can go from slagging a player off to singing his name pretty quickly. And Murphy is doing all of that at the moment.



I think you are both right it's all of those reasons, some players have benefited, I thought a few of them needed a crowd at the end of Harris as Manager, if we had a crowd they would have given them a right kick up the backside and made them try harder.


Probably right on that.

Fans would have made a difference in many ways.

The way I see it is that Murphy is just a kid. Mid 20s is nothing. He just needs an arm round him and being told he will be in the team for a run and to go out and play his football, try his best and not worry about making mistakes etc.

Seems like that’s what Mick has done.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby skidemin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:11 pm

Bluebina wrote:
Escott1927 wrote:I think its more to do with Micks man management and that the current system suits him much better as a player. He was asked to do too much defensively under warnock and Harris, which isn't his game. Under harris we played with no width either. Pretty much took him out of the game.

Murphy is definitely a confidence player and the crowd do influence players-good or bad. But fans are pretty fickle, it only takes a few silky runs, a killer pass or a goal and they can go from slagging a player off to singing his name pretty quickly. And Murphy is doing all of that at the moment.



I think you are both right it's all of those reasons, some players have benefited, I thought a few of them needed a crowd at the end of Harris as Manager, if we had a crowd they would have given them a right kick up the backside and made them try harder.



hmmm.... yet tables based purely on 2nd half results and scoring late in games had us top or very close to the top ...
personally i thought our players never gave up despite being hamstrung by an out of his depth manager..
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby skidemin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:28 pm

maccydee wrote:
Bluebina wrote:
Escott1927 wrote:I think its more to do with Micks man management and that the current system suits him much better as a player. He was asked to do too much defensively under warnock and Harris, which isn't his game. Under harris we played with no width either. Pretty much took him out of the game.

Murphy is definitely a confidence player and the crowd do influence players-good or bad. But fans are pretty fickle, it only takes a few silky runs, a killer pass or a goal and they can go from slagging a player off to singing his name pretty quickly. And Murphy is doing all of that at the moment.



I think you are both right it's all of those reasons, some players have benefited, I thought a few of them needed a crowd at the end of Harris as Manager, if we had a crowd they would have given them a right kick up the backside and made them try harder.


Probably right on that.

Fans would have made a difference in many ways.

The way I see it is that Murphy is just a kid. Mid 20s is nothing. He just needs an arm round him and being told he will be in the team for a run and to go out and play his football, try his best and not worry about making mistakes etc.

Seems like that’s what Mick has done.



Harris just didnt like / rate him .... even this season he begrudgingly used him and if he did he would also be the first to be whipped off..
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby 103 Barmy Army » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:26 am

Can totally relate to this. I’m in my 23rd year in the RAF Regiment and as a trainee, I’d rather not go into the consequences of things such as not applying my safety catch during a weapons lesson on this forum. However, given hindsight, the way the information was being put across didn’t suit my needs as a learner and this led to me failing my weapon handling test multiple times.

This negative early experience was the catalyst for my recent teaching degree, as I have a genuine interest in how learning can be improved and, if I’m being totally honest, to prove to myself that I wasn’t stupid.

On the occasions I’ve received praise - which back in the day was a rarity - I found my performance improved drastically, given the added confidence. Nowadays, I find the RAF has a more modern day approach through education its staff, which I would like to think is reflective of society, and earned praise is commonplace.

As for Josh Murphy, I don’t think he would have reached such heights with his own fans booing again inside the stadium, but it does appear that MM can tailor his managerial approach to suit individuals and that players understand what he wants from them.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby maccydee » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:08 pm

103 Barmy Army wrote:Can totally relate to this. I’m in my 23rd year in the RAF Regiment and as a trainee, I’d rather not go into the consequences of things such as not applying my safety catch during a weapons lesson on this forum. However, given hindsight, the way the information was being put across didn’t suit my needs as a learner and this led to me failing my weapon handling test multiple times.

This negative early experience was the catalyst for my recent teaching degree, as I have a genuine interest in how learning can be improved and, if I’m being totally honest, to prove to myself that I wasn’t stupid.

On the occasions I’ve received praise - which back in the day was a rarity - I found my performance improved drastically, given the added confidence. Nowadays, I find the RAF has a more modern day approach through education its staff, which I would like to think is reflective of society, and earned praise is commonplace.

As for Josh Murphy, I don’t think he would have reached such heights with his own fans booing again inside the stadium, but it does appear that MM can tailor his managerial approach to suit individuals and that players understand what he wants from them.


Good words.

Always had a lot of respect for Rocks.

Some of the biffs that go through their training it must be hard to keep sane.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby nubbsy » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:49 am

So a footballer that can't play infront of fans :?

We are no different to any other club in the pressure we put on players, fact is he's been awful since joining apart from a few very brief spells. Last few games he's looked like a new player and long may it continue, but what will happen when the going gets tough and the pressure starts mounting, will he fold again?
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby maccydee » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:29 pm

nubbsy wrote:So a footballer that can't play infront of fans :?

We are no different to any other club in the pressure we put on players, fact is he's been awful since joining apart from a few very brief spells. Last few games he's looked like a new player and long may it continue, but what will happen when the going gets tough and the pressure starts mounting, will he fold again?


We are a bit more fickle that a lot of clubs.

We never used to be. Used to be 100% behind the players.

Not sure when it changed.
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Re: Josh Murphy wouldn’t be doing this with fans there?

Postby skidemin » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:00 pm

nubbsy wrote:So a footballer that can't play infront of fans :?

We are no different to any other club in the pressure we put on players, fact is he's been awful since joining apart from a few very brief spells. Last few games he's looked like a new player and long may it continue, but what will happen when the going gets tough and the pressure starts mounting, will he fold again?



not sure where the awful has come from... considering when he came here he was not only moving up a division but was joining a team as nailed on to get relegated as you get .. i thought he did ok... last season under Harris his opportunities were few and far between and even when he came on and scored twice he didnt get a starting place , instead he got chucked on with a few minutes to go....seen plenty here nowhere near as effective going forward who were also not putting in road digger shifts but being fans favourites.
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