UK SPORT WELCOMES VACCINE PASSPORTS FOR FANS RETURN

I have no problem with people choosing not to have the jab, that is them exercising free choice.

However, if that then means that they are precluded from some activities, e.g. pubs, football games, then so be it.

It is different for those who aren't offered it for medical reasons and testing will be the way for them.

Is there a limit to what activities they can be kept away from - where does the line get drawn? How about going to the supermarket? Attending school plays? Attending university?

Equally, are you comfortable with private companies being privy to all your medical data - where would you draw the line for that? Insurance companies refusing to give you policies if you have family history of certain conditions for example?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, genuinely curious to know where people will draw the line and why they think that line might not keep moving once it is put in place.

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....
i do think politically Boris is on very thin ice regarding this though...

Hopefully we have herd immunity soon and this goes and then we will look back on this with horror but will be normal.

Hope your right on that Mac

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....

This is the bit that really has me worried

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....

This is the bit that really has me worried

A and E s nationwide are being over run with people terrified of their side effects... { apparently mild side effects }
and some desperately want passports and all sorts of restrictions despite being vaccinated themselves
sounds more fear driven than freedom of choice to me..
oh and i do not begrudge those that have self inflicted side effects having NHS treatment....now or in the future...

Its just for 15 days, to flatten the curve...

Its just another month until we get to summer...

Its just a mask in on public transport no drama

Ita just wearing a mask in supermarkets not that big a deal...

You only have to wear your mask in the pub when you get up to go to the toilet, your fine at the table...

Its only a local lockdown this time...

Its only another six months lockdown, we'll be good after that...

Its only a mandatory vaccine, just like the flu jab...

Its only if you havent had the vaccine that you wont be allowed to travel...

Its only if you havent had your latest vaccine update added to your digital passport that you won't be able to work/claim benefits/marry/breed...


We are pavlov's dogs slowly being re-educated one small step at a time.

I reckon we're somewhere in between the last two points at the minute.

At the time I posted this, Boris was making fairly loud announcements that we would never have a vaccine passport, and it was un-British to have a papers based society - because we've seen how that pans out and it is never good.

Now just under six-months on and we're so conditioned that we're willing to forget about all these troublesome things like civil liberty and inalienable rights, as long as we can get back to 'normal'. The government doesn't have to push these restrictions of liberty onto us, we're practically begging them to implement them. One poll had 62% of people saying they would be happy to use a vaccine passport to go to the pub.

Like I say anything to get back to normal, that we all desperately want to get back to, me included.

However, before we all sign up for mass tracking so we can watch football, have a beer and all other good things, just take one moment to ask what was it that really took us away from that normal in the first place?



Was it really this virus, which is evidently real and dangerous, and just to say, my heart goes out to anyone who has lost loved ones to it, but was it really this virus that stole 'normal' away?

Or was it the draconian over-reaction of the government to 'protect' us all by locking us all up? A move that contradicted the World Health Organisation's own recommendations on only implementing lockdown on a short-term, localised basis.

Should we blame the virus for our loss of normal or our government that made a calculation based on highly questionable data modelling (by a man that spectacularly got foot and mouth, mad-cow disease, bird-flu and swine flu projections massively wrong) to decide that the risk from this disease with a 99.7% survival rate for anyone under 75 was so great that life-saving cancer treatments were to be put on hold, mass deterioration of mental health on a society-wide basis should be brushed under the carpet and the most obscene transfer of wealth from small businesses to a handful of billionaires was all well and good?

Should we trust a government that promised there would be no more national lockdowns to then move the goalposts and put everyone in the country under localised lockdown? A government that consistently stated vaccine passports wouldn't be introduced while simultaneously working with digital vaccine passport providers on implementation behind the scenes?

Fairplay, the media bombardment and lockdowns did their job well and I understand why so many are desperate to return to normal, but this is no the way to get back there. This just takes us further away.

Finally, just to clarify my position before I get accused of being a granny killer or a conspiracy nut or both and worse...

As I've said many times over, those who wish to get the vaccine should be entitled to do so. I'm not even anti-vaccine, my kids have had MMR and I have had many vaccines in my life for travel.

I've been consistent and open that I remain dubious about the speed at which these vaccines have been produced and particularly the indemnity given to the vaccine providers as well as the hyperbole that has been driven around the virus and the many subtle sleights of hand that have been used to magnify its dangers.

I've always said I'll wait quietly at the back of the queue and see how things play out, and seeing as I've yet to be offered a vaccine (being the young spritely chicken that I am I'm not quite on the list currently) it's not something I have had to give personal consideration to as yet.

But that has always been my point, choosing to be vaccinated should be down to personal choice.

However, mandatory vaccination is a huge abuse of power and raises massive ethical questions. The coercion of being excluded from aspects of society is just a media-friendly approach to mandatory vaccination and this feels like just one more step down that road that started over a year ago with 15 days to flatten the curve.

I'm sure someone will come back with it's your choice if you want to go to the football then you'll have to get the vaccine. That's missing the point though - the thing is the goalposts keep moving and it is death by a thousand cuts.

Once people get used to a vaccine passport for everyday things like going to the football it is a lot easier to move the posts again - vaccine passport required to go to the shops, for your kids to be in school, to claim benefits.

I think this is a very dangerous path to go down is all I'm trying to say (in a long-winded way - sorry for long post)

Was it a virus that at its peak had a mortality rate of around 0.5% even when factoring in the most vulnerable - whose average age of death from Covid was actually higher than the average life expectancy of the population? A virus whose total global death percentage is almost directly the same as the Hong Kong Flu when factoring in total population?

So would you have proposed no restrictions or vaccine development, I'm not picking an argument just would like to see how you would have solved this? Is this only as dangerous as Hong Kong flu in your eyes then?

Hopefully we have herd immunity soon and this goes and then we will look back on this with horror but will be normal.

Hope your right on that Mac

the latest UCL model claims we hit herd immunity today.....????????
probably wrong.. most positive things are re covid..

Hopefully we have herd immunity soon and this goes and then we will look back on this with horror but will be normal.

Hope your right on that Mac

I hope he is right too, but what if everyone had said, hmmm it was developed quickly lets wait a few years and see what happens, where would we be now? Just would like to see the alternative view?

Hopefully we have herd immunity soon and this goes and then we will look back on this with horror but will be normal.

Hope your right on that Mac

the latest UCL model claims we hit herd immunity today.....????????
probably wrong.. most positive things are re covid..

Probably is wrong but a step in the right direction, and even with the number of people vaccinated now, there is evidence that vaccination is working and cases are be dramatically reduced.

I have no problem with people choosing not to have the jab, that is them exercising free choice.

However, if that then means that they are precluded from some activities, e.g. pubs, football games, then so be it.

It is different for those who aren't offered it for medical reasons and testing will be the way for them.

Is there a limit to what activities they can be kept away from - where does the line get drawn? How about going to the supermarket? Attending school plays? Attending university?

Equally, are you comfortable with private companies being privy to all your medical data - where would you draw the line for that? Insurance companies refusing to give you policies if you have family history of certain conditions for example?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, genuinely curious to know where people will draw the line and why they think that line might not keep moving once it is put in place.

Not trying to be confrontational, the majority of people are happy to go with the vaccination certificates, because they've had the vaccine, or have immunity or are prepared to take the tests?

It's only people who are refusing that are concerned about this issue?

Although they've already said it won't be needed for GP surgeries, supermarkets etc.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/vaccine ... ent-938297

If he changes his mind it's the same either comply or don't go?

I have no problem with people choosing not to have the jab, that is them exercising free choice.

However, if that then means that they are precluded from some activities, e.g. pubs, football games, then so be it.

It is different for those who aren't offered it for medical reasons and testing will be the way for them.

Is there a limit to what activities they can be kept away from - where does the line get drawn? How about going to the supermarket? Attending school plays? Attending university?

Equally, are you comfortable with private companies being privy to all your medical data - where would you draw the line for that? Insurance companies refusing to give you policies if you have family history of certain conditions for example?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, genuinely curious to know where people will draw the line and why they think that line might not keep moving once it is put in place.

Yes I agree, where the line is drawn is this most difficult point.

But, to put forward a counter view, if the majority decided not to have the jab we would be in and out of lockdown almost permanently because it's generally accepted by all doctors/scientists that vaccination (and a continued program of regular boosters) is the only sure way of getting back to normal and/or avoiding even more deaths than we've seen so far.

This virus will, now, never be eliminated only managed and even then there will be another pandemic from another virus further down the line that we will have to be better prepared for.

As for private companies sharing private data, that ship sailed years ago !! Insurance companies, banks, holiday companies, etc., already hold that data for many of us. Holding data on whether I've had a particular injection or not is, frankly, the least of my worries when it comes to data security !!!!!

I have no problem with people choosing not to have the jab, that is them exercising free choice.

However, if that then means that they are precluded from some activities, e.g. pubs, football games, then so be it.

It is different for those who aren't offered it for medical reasons and testing will be the way for them.

Is there a limit to what activities they can be kept away from - where does the line get drawn? How about going to the supermarket? Attending school plays? Attending university?

Equally, are you comfortable with private companies being privy to all your medical data - where would you draw the line for that? Insurance companies refusing to give you policies if you have family history of certain conditions for example?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, genuinely curious to know where people will draw the line and why they think that line might not keep moving once it is put in place.

Not trying to be confrontational, the majority of people are happy to go with the vaccination certificates, because they've had the vaccine, or have immunity or are prepared to take the tests?

It's only people who are refusing that are concerned about this issue?

Although they've already said it won't be needed for GP surgeries, supermarkets etc.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/vaccine ... ent-938297

If he changes his mind it's the same either comply or don't go?

i think your wrong when you say that its only the people who are refusing that are concerned......
how can you not be concerned as there is nothing to say this is a one off and although the line has moved a bit this time it will not again.. well actually Boris will say this but he is the one who has already changed his mind a dozen times on allsorts of things....
truth be told they are not getting anywhere near everyone being vaccinated and they know it..... old and weak { group most likely to die } ...easy.... middle aged healthy people who seem to have volunteered themselves to be old and weak and at far greater risk than they actually were ...even easier.... the 30 odd million left will be pressured and blackmailed....its not freedom or a free choice by any stretch of the imagination... i know people that have been pressured into having it.. and could well myself.... but lets not kid ourselves any of these threats are because the roll out is what they are saying it is....

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....

This is the bit that really has me worried

A and E s nationwide are being over run with people terrified of their side effects... { apparently mild side effects }
and some desperately want passports and all sorts of restrictions despite being vaccinated themselves
sounds more fear driven than freedom of choice to me..
oh and i do not begrudge those that have self inflicted side effects having NHS treatment....now or in the future...

I don't think the majority people who are for vaccine certification want them because they are scared, as they are relatively sensible people and understand they are at very miniscule risk now.

I think it's more that they want get as close as possible to eliminating the virus so normal life can resume. If unvaccinated people mix in pubs or race meetings or football events (especially in the indoor areas like bars toilets etc) and keep spreading it the restrictions will apply for longer, so maybe vaccination certification could have a big impact in reduction of the spreading and getting their lives, jobs, families lives back to normal?

The higher the uptake, the quicker Covid -19 becomes less of a problem and more like flu, which allows life to continue.

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....

This is the bit that really has me worried

A and E s nationwide are being over run with people terrified of their side effects... { apparently mild side effects }
and some desperately want passports and all sorts of restrictions despite being vaccinated themselves
sounds more fear driven than freedom of choice to me..
oh and i do not begrudge those that have self inflicted side effects having NHS treatment....now or in the future...

I don't think the majority people who are for vaccine certification want them because they are scared, as they are relatively sensible people and understand they are at very miniscule risk now.



I think it's more that they want get as close as possible to eliminating the virus so normal life can resume. If unvaccinated people mix in pubs or race meetings or football events (especially in the indoor areas like bars toilets etc) and keep spreading it the restrictions will apply for longer, so maybe vaccination certification could have a big impact in reduction of the spreading and getting their lives, jobs, families lives back to normal?

The higher the uptake, the quicker Covid -19 becomes less of a problem and more like flu, which allows life to continue.

Mark quite right on all accounts

I have no problem with people choosing not to have the jab, that is them exercising free choice.

However, if that then means that they are precluded from some activities, e.g. pubs, football games, then so be it.

It is different for those who aren't offered it for medical reasons and testing will be the way for them.

Is there a limit to what activities they can be kept away from - where does the line get drawn? How about going to the supermarket? Attending school plays? Attending university?

Equally, are you comfortable with private companies being privy to all your medical data - where would you draw the line for that? Insurance companies refusing to give you policies if you have family history of certain conditions for example?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, genuinely curious to know where people will draw the line and why they think that line might not keep moving once it is put in place.

Not trying to be confrontational, the majority of people are happy to go with the vaccination certificates, because they've had the vaccine, or have immunity or are prepared to take the tests?

It's only people who are refusing that are concerned about this issue?

Although they've already said it won't be needed for GP surgeries, supermarkets etc.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/vaccine ... ent-938297

If he changes his mind it's the same either comply or don't go?

i think your wrong when you say that its only the people who are refusing that are concerned......
how can you not be concerned as there is nothing to say this is a one off and although the line has moved a bit this time it will not again.. well actually Boris will say this but he is the one who has already changed his mind a dozen times on allsorts of things....
truth be told they are not getting anywhere near everyone being vaccinated and they know it..... old and weak { group most likely to die } ...easy.... middle aged healthy people who seem to have volunteered themselves to be old and weak and at far greater risk than they actually were ...even easier.... the 30 odd million left will be pressured and blackmailed....its not freedom or a free choice by any stretch of the imagination... i know people that have been pressured into having it.. and could well myself.... but lets not kid ourselves any of these threats are because the roll out is what they are saying it is....

Of course politicians will tell us what they want us to hear in terms of vaccination program progress. However, what we can all do is judge by what our friends/family have experienced.

I'm mid 50s and had my first jab 2 weeks ago, I have colleagues in their mid 40s now getting their call-up letters. I know of nobody in my work (350+), family or friends groups over 50 who haven't had their jabs.

Based on that rate against population they are actually ahead of their plans.

As for the remainder of the population being "pressured and blackmailed", on what do you base that looking at the evidence so far ?

A lot of information has been published and broadcast and it's up to the individual to make their own decision based on that.

There have been no groups of "COVID Police" banging on doors dragging or encouraging people to get their jabs !!

There is no blackmail involved if people who decide not to have a jab then face the possibility of missing out on some activities. It's part of the individual weighing up whether the jab is right for them taking all the benefits and risks into account.

I really don't get the criticism of the "vaccine passport" approach, as nobody is being forced to take the jab, they merely have to accept that by making that decision they may not have the freedoms of somebody who took the opposite decision, including running the risk of contracting and spreading the virus.

As I said in a previous post, people with conditions that preclude them from having the jab are different and regular testing should be available for them to ensure they don't lose out on a decision that is out of their hands.

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....

This is the bit that really has me worried

A and E s nationwide are being over run with people terrified of their side effects... { apparently mild side effects }
and some desperately want passports and all sorts of restrictions despite being vaccinated themselves
sounds more fear driven than freedom of choice to me..
oh and i do not begrudge those that have self inflicted side effects having NHS treatment....now or in the future...

I don't think the majority people who are for vaccine certification want them because they are scared, as they are relatively sensible people and understand they are at very miniscule risk now.

I think it's more that they want get as close as possible to eliminating the virus so normal life can resume. If unvaccinated people mix in pubs or race meetings or football events (especially in the indoor areas like bars toilets etc) and keep spreading it the restrictions will apply for longer, so maybe vaccination certification could have a big impact in reduction of the spreading and getting their lives, jobs, families lives back to normal?

The higher the uptake, the quicker Covid -19 becomes less of a problem and more like flu, which allows life to continue.

if it made sense who are these sensible people clogging A and E s up... and there would be no need for blackmail... yes supermarkets and GPs will be passport free ...until the screw gets another half a turn.

I have no problem with people choosing not to have the jab, that is them exercising free choice.

However, if that then means that they are precluded from some activities, e.g. pubs, football games, then so be it.

It is different for those who aren't offered it for medical reasons and testing will be the way for them.

Is there a limit to what activities they can be kept away from - where does the line get drawn? How about going to the supermarket? Attending school plays? Attending university?

Equally, are you comfortable with private companies being privy to all your medical data - where would you draw the line for that? Insurance companies refusing to give you policies if you have family history of certain conditions for example?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, genuinely curious to know where people will draw the line and why they think that line might not keep moving once it is put in place.

Not trying to be confrontational, the majority of people are happy to go with the vaccination certificates, because they've had the vaccine, or have immunity or are prepared to take the tests?

It's only people who are refusing that are concerned about this issue?

Although they've already said it won't be needed for GP surgeries, supermarkets etc.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/vaccine ... ent-938297

If he changes his mind it's the same either comply or don't go?

i think your wrong when you say that its only the people who are refusing that are concerned......
how can you not be concerned as there is nothing to say this is a one off and although the line has moved a bit this time it will not again.. well actually Boris will say this but he is the one who has already changed his mind a dozen times on allsorts of things....
truth be told they are not getting anywhere near everyone being vaccinated and they know it..... old and weak { group most likely to die } ...easy.... middle aged healthy people who seem to have volunteered themselves to be old and weak and at far greater risk than they actually were ...even easier.... the 30 odd million left will be pressured and blackmailed....its not freedom or a free choice by any stretch of the imagination... i know people that have been pressured into having it.. and could well myself.... but lets not kid ourselves any of these threats are because the roll out is what they are saying it is....

Of course politicians will tell us what they want us to hear in terms of vaccination program progress. However, what we can all do is judge by what our friends/family have experienced.

I'm mid 50s and had my first jab 2 weeks ago, I have colleagues in their mid 40s now getting their call-up letters. I know of nobody in my work (350+), family or friends groups over 50 who haven't had their jabs.

Based on that rate against population they are actually ahead of their plans.

As for the remainder of the population being "pressured and blackmailed", on what do you base that looking at the evidence so far ?

A lot of information has been published and broadcast and it's up to the individual to make their own decision based on that.

There have been no groups of "COVID Police" banging on doors dragging or encouraging people to get their jabs !!

There is no blackmail involved if people who decide not to have a jab then face the possibility of missing out on some activities. It's part of the individual weighing up whether the jab is right for them taking all the benefits and risks into account.

I really don't get the criticism of the "vaccine passport" approach, as nobody is being forced to take the jab, they merely have to accept that by making that decision they may not have the freedoms of somebody who took the opposite decision, including running the risk of contracting and spreading the virus.

As I said in a previous post, people with conditions that preclude them from having the jab are different and regular testing should be available for them to ensure they don't lose out on a decision that is out of their hands.

sorry but i dont think politicians should be telling us what they want us to hear over a health issue ..... way too much of that gone on already.{ do you seriously believe they should } ...this should be truth and unbiased truth from the media and more so from elected bodies and should have been from day 1..... it hasnt been which is the reason there are doubters.... and yes its blackmail....what else do you call it....

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....

This is the bit that really has me worried

A and E s nationwide are being over run with people terrified of their side effects... { apparently mild side effects }
and some desperately want passports and all sorts of restrictions despite being vaccinated themselves
sounds more fear driven than freedom of choice to me..
oh and i do not begrudge those that have self inflicted side effects having NHS treatment....now or in the future...

I don't think the majority people who are for vaccine certification want them because they are scared, as they are relatively sensible people and understand they are at very miniscule risk now.

I think it's more that they want get as close as possible to eliminating the virus so normal life can resume. If unvaccinated people mix in pubs or race meetings or football events (especially in the indoor areas like bars toilets etc) and keep spreading it the restrictions will apply for longer, so maybe vaccination certification could have a big impact in reduction of the spreading and getting their lives, jobs, families lives back to normal?

The higher the uptake, the quicker Covid -19 becomes less of a problem and more like flu, which allows life to continue.

if it made sense who are these sensible people clogging A and E s up... and there would be no need for blackmail... yes supermarkets and GPs will be passport free ...until the screw gets another half a turn.

My understanding is that hospitals are the quietest they've been since last August, as told by my Neighbour a doctor and a mate who is a paramedic. I don't think they are clogged up with people worrying about the effects of vaccines?

for some there is no line...they rubbed it out completely....

This is the bit that really has me worried

A and E s nationwide are being over run with people terrified of their side effects... { apparently mild side effects }
and some desperately want passports and all sorts of restrictions despite being vaccinated themselves
sounds more fear driven than freedom of choice to me..
oh and i do not begrudge those that have self inflicted side effects having NHS treatment....now or in the future...

I don't think the majority people who are for vaccine certification want them because they are scared, as they are relatively sensible people and understand they are at very miniscule risk now.

I think it's more that they want get as close as possible to eliminating the virus so normal life can resume. If unvaccinated people mix in pubs or race meetings or football events (especially in the indoor areas like bars toilets etc) and keep spreading it the restrictions will apply for longer, so maybe vaccination certification could have a big impact in reduction of the spreading and getting their lives, jobs, families lives back to normal?

The higher the uptake, the quicker Covid -19 becomes less of a problem and more like flu, which allows life to continue.

if it made sense who are these sensible people clogging A and E s up... and there would be no need for blackmail... yes supermarkets and GPs will be passport free ...until the screw gets another half a turn.

The paramedic did go on to say that covid calls have massively reduced, but the next area of concern is mental health issues, but that makes for a bigger need to get as many people vaccinated as we can, so that we never have a lockdown again if at all possible!

I have no problem with people choosing not to have the jab, that is them exercising free choice.

However, if that then means that they are precluded from some activities, e.g. pubs, football games, then so be it.

It is different for those who aren't offered it for medical reasons and testing will be the way for them.

Is there a limit to what activities they can be kept away from - where does the line get drawn? How about going to the supermarket? Attending school plays? Attending university?

Equally, are you comfortable with private companies being privy to all your medical data - where would you draw the line for that? Insurance companies refusing to give you policies if you have family history of certain conditions for example?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, genuinely curious to know where people will draw the line and why they think that line might not keep moving once it is put in place.

Not trying to be confrontational, the majority of people are happy to go with the vaccination certificates, because they've had the vaccine, or have immunity or are prepared to take the tests?

It's only people who are refusing that are concerned about this issue?

Although they've already said it won't be needed for GP surgeries, supermarkets etc.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/vaccine ... ent-938297

If he changes his mind it's the same either comply or don't go?

i think your wrong when you say that its only the people who are refusing that are concerned......
how can you not be concerned as there is nothing to say this is a one off and although the line has moved a bit this time it will not again.. well actually Boris will say this but he is the one who has already changed his mind a dozen times on allsorts of things....
truth be told they are not getting anywhere near everyone being vaccinated and they know it..... old and weak { group most likely to die } ...easy.... middle aged healthy people who seem to have volunteered themselves to be old and weak and at far greater risk than they actually were ...even easier.... the 30 odd million left will be pressured and blackmailed....its not freedom or a free choice by any stretch of the imagination... i know people that have been pressured into having it.. and could well myself.... but lets not kid ourselves any of these threats are because the roll out is what they are saying it is....

Of course politicians will tell us what they want us to hear in terms of vaccination program progress. However, what we can all do is judge by what our friends/family have experienced.

I'm mid 50s and had my first jab 2 weeks ago, I have colleagues in their mid 40s now getting their call-up letters. I know of nobody in my work (350+), family or friends groups over 50 who haven't had their jabs.

Based on that rate against population they are actually ahead of their plans.

As for the remainder of the population being "pressured and blackmailed", on what do you base that looking at the evidence so far ?

A lot of information has been published and broadcast and it's up to the individual to make their own decision based on that.

There have been no groups of "COVID Police" banging on doors dragging or encouraging people to get their jabs !!

There is no blackmail involved if people who decide not to have a jab then face the possibility of missing out on some activities. It's part of the individual weighing up whether the jab is right for them taking all the benefits and risks into account.

I really don't get the criticism of the "vaccine passport" approach, as nobody is being forced to take the jab, they merely have to accept that by making that decision they may not have the freedoms of somebody who took the opposite decision, including running the risk of contracting and spreading the virus.

As I said in a previous post, people with conditions that preclude them from having the jab are different and regular testing should be available for them to ensure they don't lose out on a decision that is out of their hands.

sorry but i dont think politicians should be telling us what they want us to hear over a health issue ..... way too much of that gone on already.{ do you seriously believe they should } ...this should be truth and unbiased truth from the media and more so from elected bodies and should have been from day 1..... it hasnt been which is the reason there are doubters.... and yes its blackmail....what else do you call it....

No, I absolutely do not think that politicians should be telling us what they want us to hear, but they do.

Personally, I would always take the NHS advice that is readily available on-line or through your GP and look at the medical advice from other respected places like the World Health Organisation.

However you dress it up it isn't blackmail though. People still have the choice whether to have the jab based on their circumstances and the information available to them. It's a matter for them whether that precaution overrides some of the things they may miss out on by making that decision.

So would you have proposed no restrictions or vaccine development, I'm not picking an argument just would like to see how you would have solved this? Is this only as dangerous as Hong Kong flu in your eyes then?

If I were king...

I would have gone the complete opposite direction regarding lockdowns and protected and isolated the vulnerable rather than locking up healthy people - which as far as I am aware is a first in medical history. The amount the economy has been damaged could easily have covered the amount that would need to be spent to ensure that those vulnerable could have been protected in dignity rather than left to die alone.

The economy could have kept moving, herd immunity would have been achieved a long time ago.

In terms of communication, I would have focused on the exceptionally low mortality rate rather than a daily ticker of death. I would have continued in the vein of the spirit of the blitz that we saw emerge in the early phase of the first lockdown and drive an 'in it all together' mentality rather than what has emerged which is a fear of each other. I would have emphasised the danger to the old but instead of creating a culture of accusation i.e. your a Granny killer, I would have fostered a culture of collective heroism - again channelling the Blitz messaging - look at little Jonny helping pick apples so Grandma can stay safe at home - that kinda thing.

I would have reinforced the early messaging around best-practice hygiene and would have encouraged home working or shift working to reduce public transport peaks - but I believe in these anyway not just as a measure against COVID.

I would have gone for big public broadcasts that explain that while the virus is new and we are still learning more about it each day, for the vast majority who catch it the symptoms while unpleasant are not lethal and will pass of their own accord. Rest, self-isolate and then get back out when ready.

I would have diverted funds into 111 and pushed people towards going through a consultation process via this medium before visiting their GP or A&E as an effort to ease the burden on the NHS. I would also have made any nurse/doctor doing a damned TikTok video do a double shift, but that's more down to the fact that they just piss me off than any actual practical reason. (miserable old sod me)

I would have ensured that whatever incentives were in place that resulted in situations like Kings Cross being backed up and Ealing/Middlesex hospitals remained largely empty being removed. The millions wasted on white elephant Nightingale hospitals would have helped with the diversion of funds although I suspect cutting out red tape would have solved many problems in that regard.

Politically, the first thing I would have done is establish a cross-party COVID cabinet to ensure that a) all actions are in the good of the people and cannot be open to political posturing and b) would actually strengthen my position as a leader.

Regarding vaccination, yes I would have moved slower and I would not have given indemnity to big pharma. Ultimately, given the very low mortality rate, I still don't understand the rush beyond mass hysteria.

All very easy to say with hindsight although I think there was an opportunity at the end of the first lockdown to change course that was missed entirely and we've just ended up going down the wrong path further and further.

Of course all easy to say from behind a keyboard and much harder to actually make the decisions in real-life, but I'd like to think I would have taken a different path if it were on me.

So would you have proposed no restrictions or vaccine development, I'm not picking an argument just would like to see how you would have solved this? Is this only as dangerous as Hong Kong flu in your eyes then?

If I were king...

I would have gone the complete opposite direction regarding lockdowns and protected and isolated the vulnerable rather than locking up healthy people - which as far as I am aware is a first in medical history. The amount the economy has been damaged could easily have covered the amount that would need to be spent to ensure that those vulnerable could have been protected in dignity rather than left to die alone.

The economy could have kept moving, herd immunity would have been achieved a long time ago.

In terms of communication, I would have focused on the exceptionally low mortality rate rather than a daily ticker of death. I would have continued in the vein of the spirit of the blitz that we saw emerge in the early phase of the first lockdown and drive an 'in it all together' mentality rather than what has emerged which is a fear of each other. I would have emphasised the danger to the old but instead of creating a culture of accusation i.e. your a Granny killer, I would have fostered a culture of collective heroism - again channelling the Blitz messaging - look at little Jonny helping pick apples so Grandma can stay safe at home - that kinda thing.

I would have reinforced the early messaging around best-practice hygiene and would have encouraged home working or shift working to reduce public transport peaks - but I believe in these anyway not just as a measure against COVID.

I would have gone for big public broadcasts that explain that while the virus is new and we are still learning more about it each day, for the vast majority who catch it the symptoms while unpleasant are not lethal and will pass of their own accord. Rest, self-isolate and then get back out when ready.

I would have diverted funds into 111 and pushed people towards going through a consultation process via this medium before visiting their GP or A&E as an effort to ease the burden on the NHS. I would also have made any nurse/doctor doing a damned TikTok video do a double shift, but that's more down to the fact that they just piss me off than any actual practical reason. (miserable old sod me)

I would have ensured that whatever incentives were in place that resulted in situations like Kings Cross being backed up and Ealing/Middlesex hospitals remained largely empty being removed. The millions wasted on white elephant Nightingale hospitals would have helped with the diversion of funds although I suspect cutting out red tape would have solved many problems in that regard.

Politically, the first thing I would have done is establish a cross-party COVID cabinet to ensure that a) all actions are in the good of the people and cannot be open to political posturing and b) would actually strengthen my position as a leader.

Regarding vaccination, yes I would have moved slower and I would not have given indemnity to big pharma. Ultimately, given the very low mortality rate, I still don't understand the rush beyond mass hysteria.

All very easy to say with hindsight although I think there was an opportunity at the end of the first lockdown to change course that was missed entirely and we've just ended up going down the wrong path further and further.

Of course all easy to say from behind a keyboard and much harder to actually make the decisions in real-life, but I'd like to think I would have taken a different path if it were on me.

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die, I was of the same view for a day or two until the theory was smashed to bits by the medical experts.

Even with all the measures and lockdowns the NHS couldn't cope, you are underestimating the number of people that would have needed medical attention if it was allowed to let rip.

If only life was so simple the Whole world would have followed the plan and covid would have been a thing of the past!

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die,

Not quite sure how you get letting the old die from protecting and isolating the vulnerable?

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die,

Not quite sure how you get letting the old die from protecting and isolating the vulnerable?

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die,

Not quite sure how you get letting the old die from protecting and isolating the vulnerable?

Protecting and isolating the vulnerable - OK how?

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die,

Not quite sure how you get letting the old die from protecting and isolating the vulnerable?

Protecting and isolating the vulnerable - OK how?

No time to answer properly but will respond when I do. Just quick reply so you know not ducking the question

He is saying that ethnic groups will be discriminated against if the do not have the vaccine, he is bringing race into it when anyone will be discriminated against if they don't have the vaccine, he brought the ethnic groups part into his statement when what he should have said was, anyone would be diasadvantaged by not having the vaccine, so maybe I should have said ALL groups in my post, he is using the race card when it should apply to all unvacinated groups. I am on about anyone who does not have the vacccine because they do not want too, not about those who have medical conditions that they cannot have it, but there lies the rub, do people who are not vaccinaated be allowed to mingle and possibly pass on Covid, or catch it themselves!

Some great points Igovernor, apart from the last sentence, as I fall into that category, as do many, many thousands of others by default and seeing as we cannot have the vaccine, should we be allowed to "mingle" ?
And there is also the fact of still being able to catch ; spread it, even after vaccination, I get your point regards this race nonsense being brought into it, as that's bollox I'm not going to judge people over what is their choice. after all, if they don't want the vaccine, then surely it is they who are at highest risk of hospitalisation if they get it? Not those that have protection from the worst effects.
It's a very difficult one to get right imho, without being discriminatory to some of us, who through no fault, or real choice of their own, could find ourselves "shunned" from taking part in events, like myself for instance, who, if this happens could end up missing out on possibly a season, possibly more, of the club I have followed for best part of 50 years! I've heard the cost of having a private test can cost anything up to £200, imagine the cost to myself to attention each home match!! Could never afford it, so would have to stop attending games until all this dies down to the extent they allow everyone to "join society again". [/quote]

Hi Paul my understanding is that the government has said that Covid 19 tests would be free to all I may be mistaken though.
There will be a real problem with implementing these tests. I personally think that these tests will only be a temporary thing until such a time that there is herd immunity, that hopefully will come at some time fingers crossed [/quote]


Any links to that roger? Would be prepared to do it if free as often as they want! Even at a small cost I'd be prepared to stump up to watch the city again!in the meantime I have to go with the flow so to speak, and see what lies ahead.
I would imagine it would(test) have to be done 3 days in advance, as per some countries who are prepared to accept tourists who have negative test 3 days prior to flying,if like myself prople cannot have the jab,such as turkey and a few others.its just fingers crossed herd immunity does begin to take effect,then again I could be immune and not realise it! Perhaps an anti body test is needed? One for my gp to consider(not straw grasping am I lol.)[/quote]

This is what I found and is available at the moment there are pilot schemes that the government are trialing. I have edited the post but the full text is in the link. These things are changing all the time so we will have to wait and see.

https://www.gov.uk/get-coronavirus-test


You can use this service if:
you have no symptons

you’ve been in contact with someone who’s tested positive
you’ve been asked to get a test by a local council or contact tracers
a GP or other health professional has asked you to get a test
you’re taking part in a government pilot project
you’ve been asked to get a test to confirm a positive result
you’ve received an unclear result and were told to get a second test
you need to get a test for someone you live with who has symptoms
you’re in the National Tactical Response Group

Getting a rapid lateral flow test if you have no symptoms
England

[color=#FF0000]If you have no symptoms and are not eligible for a PCR test for other reasons, you can:

ask at your workplace, university or other place of study
order rapid lateral flow tests to be sent to your home
find a site near you to get tested at
find a pharmacy where you can collect rapid lateral flow tests
find a test site where you can collect rapid lateral flow tests

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland[/quote]


Cheers roger, very helpful.

Clubs will be leaving themselves wide open to being sued under discrimination and singling out people to be social leper’s. Now the Nuremberg findings put practices in place so that would never happen again. There will be major lawsuits being carried out.
It has nothing to do with race as being mentioned in this thread.
Those saying they support this repressive idea are one supporting tyranny. It’s one step closer to 1930s Germany with having to have papers to travel or go anywhere.
And next year you will have to get another vaccine if you think it’s a one off jab then dream on.
My reason for not getting it is simple a jab for Flu a jab for Covid in the future your immune system will not work as a chemical one will be needed" they will have total control of you. The more you repress your own immune system the less it will work.
How is it being repressed ?
Social distancing
Not seeing friends and family
Wearing masks constantly
Shutting gyms
Denied travel
Vaccines
Well careful what your future will look like

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die,

Not quite sure how you get letting the old die from protecting and isolating the vulnerable?

Protecting and isolating the vulnerable - OK how?

No time to answer properly but will respond when I do. Just quick reply so you know not ducking the question

Ok nice one, I'm not around to reply either

The government have already tried and failed to protect the vulnerable with the most extreme measures ever, 127,000 deaths and counting, so it will be interesting to see how they could have done it without any significant measures, lockdowns and of course the benefits of hindsight

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die,

Not quite sure how you get letting the old die from protecting and isolating the vulnerable?

Protecting and isolating the vulnerable - OK how?

Much of what we have done just inverted.

It really wouldn't have been that hard to have reinforced the shielding program and provide financial and practical assistance for those within the program keeping them isolated as was the whole point of the program.

If the whole point of lockdown was to protect those particularly vulnerable to it, why try to protect those who are highly unlikely to have severe symptoms?

Thats just illogical. It makes far more sense to focus attention and resources on a smaller, more manageable demographic.

To your other points, as I mentioned in my other post the NHS would have been under less burden if there was less panic - use of the 111 system, more effective hospital management and a different communication approach could all have mitigated that burden, my earlier post covered that in detail so I won't cover that ground again but point you back there.

Final point, slight correction you say 127,000 dead so far, to be accurate that should be up to 127k who died with not of COVID.

Again it is the simple matter of perspective. 127k dead sounds like a big scary number, the reality is it is evidently inflated by the government's own admission of what is classed as a Covid death.

That was the original plan that Dom came up with heard immunity let the old die,

Not quite sure how you get letting the old die from protecting and isolating the vulnerable?

Protecting and isolating the vulnerable - OK how?

Much of what we have done just inverted.

It really wouldn't have been that hard to have reinforced the shielding program and provide financial and practical assistance for those within the program keeping them isolated as was the whole point of the program.

If the whole point of lockdown was to protect those particularly vulnerable to it, why try to protect those who are highly unlikely to have severe symptoms?

Thats just illogical. It makes far more sense to focus attention and resources on a smaller, more manageable demographic.

To your other points, as I mentioned in my other post the NHS would have been under less burden if there was less panic - use of the 111 system, more effective hospital management and a different communication approach could all have mitigated that burden, my earlier post covered that in detail so I won't cover that ground again but point you back there.

Final point, slight correction you say 127,000 dead so far, to be accurate that should be up to 127k who died with not of COVID.

Again it is the simple matter of perspective. 127k dead sounds like a big scary number, the reality is it is evidently inflated by the government's own admission of what is classed as a Covid death.

Problem is isolating the most vulnerable and trusting the rest just wouldn’t work. It would get to those most vulnerable.

The measures taken were to limit the spread. They can never stop the spread.