Justice corrupted?

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Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:16 pm

Extinction rebellion activists were cleared of criminal damage even though judge directed the jury by saying even if their actions were morally justified there was no lawful excuse? So how the fck were there found not guilty if didn't have sympathy from jurors! That's not acceptable situation in this country...
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Justice corrupted?

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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby Sneggyblubird » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:34 pm

Found not guilty by their peers but I suppose we could try the Chinese method.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:12 pm

Sneggyblubird wrote:Found not guilty by their peers but I suppose we could try the Chinese method.



Yes found not guilty even though judge said they had no defence for their actions ? Was the jury sympathetic to their cause is my point! If they smashed you window would you agree that they were innocent even though person did it in full view of police? Thats precisely what happened in this case :o
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby rumpo kid » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:14 pm

When I did jury service I couldn’t believe about 2/3 of jurors who hadn’t listened to, or understood what they had seen that day.
If we did conduct proceedings in Mandarin, I predict little change in the outcome..
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:58 pm

rumpo kid wrote:When I did jury service I couldn’t believe about 2/3 of jurors who hadn’t listened to, or understood what they had seen that day.
If we did conduct proceedings in Mandarin, I predict little change in the outcome..



Sounds bit like this jury? You are convicted on the evidence heared and presented! Love to know how you can be cleared when there was no disputing the evidence.. simply cannot clear anyone just because you think they have a just cause like extinction rebellion? Done same thing couple days ago with another energy company will they be cleared because its extinction rebellion people? Where will it end :banghead:
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby epping blue » Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:02 am

pembroke allan wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:When I did jury service I couldn’t believe about 2/3 of jurors who hadn’t listened to, or understood what they had seen that day.
If we did conduct proceedings in Mandarin, I predict little change in the outcome..



Sounds bit like this jury? You are convicted on the evidence heared and presented! Love to know how you can be cleared when there was no disputing the evidence.. simply cannot clear anyone just because you think they have a just cause like extinction rebellion? Done same thing couple days ago with another energy company will they be cleared because its extinction rebellion people? Where will it end :banghead:




Deeply troubling verdict. OK it may have only been a few smashed windows and a bit of sprayed paint but you cant have guilt or innocence determined on the political preference of a jury. They should be made to explain on the basis of the evidence presented how they arrived at the decision. The fact they did it is not in dispute, that its a criminal act is not in dispute.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:28 am

epping blue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:When I did jury service I couldn’t believe about 2/3 of jurors who hadn’t listened to, or understood what they had seen that day.
If we did conduct proceedings in Mandarin, I predict little change in the outcome..



Sounds bit like this jury? You are convicted on the evidence heared and presented! Love to know how you can be cleared when there was no disputing the evidence.. simply cannot clear anyone just because you think they have a just cause like extinction rebellion? Done same thing couple days ago with another energy company will they be cleared because its extinction rebellion people? Where will it end :banghead:




Deeply troubling verdict. OK it may have only been a few smashed windows and a bit of sprayed paint but you cant have guilt or innocence determined on the political preference of a jury. They should be made to explain on the basis of the evidence presented how they arrived at the decision. The fact they did it is not in dispute, that its a criminal act is not in dispute.





That's partly why put it up.... the judge told them the defendants had no defence in law for their actions so they were guilty as no one disputed they did cause criminal damage? So how or why did jury find them innocent? My concern is there i
s another case in pipeline same thing so will that jury find them innocent? If so questions need to be asked of jurors as cannot have justice decided because they agree with extinction rebellion ideology.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby piledriver64 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:35 am

Raises a difficult issue.

In this country we have non elected judiciary and an open jury system.

In general it works much better than other methods but you only need one rogue jury and it looks like the system doesn’t work, as in this case.

Until someone comes up with a better version I’d stick with the justice system we have.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby Wayne S » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:38 am

So a jury of their peers decided that morals are more important that law.

What's the problem? This is how laws are changed.

Tax avoidance is legal but morally the public want it controlled.

Diminished responsibility is taken into account even though murder is illegal.

The courts are progressive not dictatorial to the law.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:17 am

Wayne S wrote:So a jury of their peers decided that morals are more important that law.

What's the problem? This is how laws are changed.

Tax avoidance is legal but morally the public want it controlled.

Diminished responsibility is taken into account even though murder is illegal.

The courts are progressive not dictatorial to the law.



The law as not changed to extent that a guilty person is found innocent for smashing windows especially as judge said they had no defence? Diminishing responsibility is mental health related extinction rebellion had no such defence.... so presume they can carry on with their attacks on companies with knowledge that law is progressive and dont think criminal damage by them is unlawful.... but is for ordinary people....:o
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby Bakedalasker » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:37 am

Founding this difficult to believe this has happened then again I should not be surprised.

I just feel the law has got soft on criminals over the last few decades with such sentences that deserve a prison sentence only becoming a slap on the wrist. This seems to be a new level of soft. Next we will be rewarding criminals.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby Crayfish » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:49 am

Bakedalasker wrote:Founding this difficult to believe this has happened then again I should not be surprised.

I just feel the law has got soft on criminals over the last few decades with such sentences that deserve a prison sentence only becoming a slap on the wrist. This seems to be a new level of soft. Next we will be rewarding criminals.


In this case it is not the law gone soft as the judge practically told them they had to find them guilty as they had no defence. It was the jury who got them off. Don't forget it was a London jury probably consisting of more then it's fair share of bleeding hearts left wing Guardian readers and that type.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:42 pm

Crayfish wrote:
Bakedalasker wrote:Founding this difficult to believe this has happened then again I should not be surprised.

I just feel the law has got soft on criminals over the last few decades with such sentences that deserve a prison sentence only becoming a slap on the wrist. This seems to be a new level of soft. Next we will be rewarding criminals.


In this case it is not the law gone soft as the judge practically told them they had to find them guilty as they had no defence. It was the jury who got them off. Don't forget it was a London jury probably consisting of more then it's fair share of bleeding hearts left wing Guardian readers and that type.




This is why I said is it corrupt? How else can people explain why guilty people can be found innocent if not jurors being supporters of either extinction rebellion or the environmental lobby? Absolutely no excuse for not finding them guilty but what is worrying is judge just said it was unusual case and nothing about how they reached their verdict? :banghead:
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby Danny Says » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:49 pm

What’s crazy is the jurors were asked to be reminded of their oaths yet even though there was no defence they acquitted.
A clear abrogation of their oaths and a total disrespect to the court and the country.
What though is even worse is the judge thanking the jury for their service.
Disgrace. Total disgrace.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:27 pm

Danny Says wrote:What’s crazy is the jurors were asked to be reminded of their oaths yet even though there was no defence they acquitted.
A clear abrogation of their oaths and a total disrespect to the court and the country.
What though is even worse is the judge thanking the jury for their service.
Disgrace. Total disgrace.


Think they used the oath as a reason to find them innocent ? Judge just said was unusual case nothing unusual about it other than very guilty people were found innocent!
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby rumpo kid » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:24 pm

The big problem with public jurors is that they are pliable. One or two of the more forceful members could coerce other members, regardless of the evidence to their view. Other issue is that the judge is desperate to avoid a re-trial so begs the jury for the majority verdict, even if jurors are unsure.

It’s dodgy..
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:43 pm

rumpo kid wrote:The big problem with public jurors is that they are pliable. One or two of the more forceful members could coerce other members, regardless of the evidence to their view. Other issue is that the judge is desperate to avoid a re-trial so begs the jury for the majority verdict, even if jurors are unsure.

It’s dodgy..



There should be an inquiry into the process as to why they made the decision they did considering there was no dispute about their guilt? there should have been only one verdict? What they did brings justice into disrepute .....
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby rumpo kid » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:39 pm

Can’t do that al... jury powers are enshrined in the Magna Carta, and there are precedents going back 5-600 years where juries do the same. De facto powers of nullification, so my legal mate says.. something like that anyway..
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:27 pm

rumpo kid wrote:Can’t do that al... jury powers are enshrined in the Magna Carta, and there are precedents going back 5-600 years where juries do the same. De facto powers of nullification, so my legal mate says.. something like that anyway..



Yes the law is 500yrs old so is the way the jury comes to a verdict? If proved guilty of a crime you get found guilty thats the foundation of justice system and being impartial! But someone forgot to tell this jury that being supporters of extinction rebellions cause you are supposed to declare it ..... certainly at best they've brought justice system into disrepute. Or they were not 12 people straight and true as defined by magna carta :o
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:34 pm

The one person who pleaded guilty was in court today and the judge said because the others got off Scott free even though guilty he couldn't seem to be unfairly treating her so he gave her a conditional discharge! But said it didnt mean others would get away with it next time extinction rebellion rabble did similar thing....
Ps they caused 15k worth of damage... :o
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby maccydee » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:41 pm

Stupid people end up on juries.

Stupid people are allowed to vote.

Both should have IQ tests of some description.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby stickywicket » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:25 pm

pembroke allan wrote:The one person who pleaded guilty was in court today and the judge said because the others got off Scott free even though guilty he couldn't seem to be unfairly treating her so he gave her a conditional discharge! But said it didnt mean others would get away with it next time extinction rebellion rabble did similar thing....
Ps they caused 15k worth of damage... :o

15 k of damage.You make me laugh mate. That's a fraction of what Cardiff City scum hooligans have cause over the years via police costs, and damage.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:33 pm

stickywicket wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:The one person who pleaded guilty was in court today and the judge said because the others got off Scott free even though guilty he couldn't seem to be unfairly treating her so he gave her a conditional discharge! But said it didnt mean others would get away with it next time extinction rebellion rabble did similar thing....
Ps they caused 15k worth of damage... :o

15 k of damage.You make me laugh mate. That's a fraction of what Cardiff City scum hooligans have cause over the years via police costs, and damage.



And you point relevant to this topic is?
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby stickywicket » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:36 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
stickywicket wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:The one person who pleaded guilty was in court today and the judge said because the others got off Scott free even though guilty he couldn't seem to be unfairly treating her so he gave her a conditional discharge! But said it didnt mean others would get away with it next time extinction rebellion rabble did similar thing....
Ps they caused 15k worth of damage... :o

15 k of damage.You make me laugh mate. That's a fraction of what Cardiff City scum hooligans have cause over the years via police costs, and damage.



And you point relevant to this topic is?

People in glass houses.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby Bluesince72 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:04 pm

What is it with people on this forum who want to drag football hooliganism into topics just for the sake of it. In recent threads the words degenerate,idiots,and scum have been banded about. Believe me no football supporters walked free from courts after jurors were directed to find them guilty and plenty of innocent football supporters who were in the wrong place at the wrong time were fined imprisonment and ended up with criminal records.
And as for police costs we as a club now have one of the safest grounds in the country violent incidents are as good as non existent yet we are still heavily policed, rugby internationals generate huge policing costs, extinction rebellion and black lives matter marches likewise. Get over the past it happened lots of the so called idiots, scum and degenerates still attend matches many now with their children. So please don't tell anyone who has a connection with Cardiff City that they are not in a position to comment on this topic.
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Re: Justice corrupted?

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:01 pm

stickywicket wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
stickywicket wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:The one person who pleaded guilty was in court today and the judge said because the others got off Scott free even though guilty he couldn't seem to be unfairly treating her so he gave her a conditional discharge! But said it didnt mean others would get away with it next time extinction rebellion rabble did similar thing....
Ps they caused 15k worth of damage... :o

15 k of damage.You make me laugh mate. That's a fraction of what Cardiff City scum hooligans have cause over the years via police costs, and damage.



And you point relevant to this topic is?

People in glass houses.



Dont live in glass house do you? :thumbup:
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