ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

A forum for all things Cardiff City

ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Sven » Sat May 01, 2021 4:14 pm

A good team performance and an outstanding hat-trick individual display from Harry ap Wilson on his penultimate appearance in a Bluebird shirt, saw us complete a fairly routine 4-0 win away at St Andrews :clap:

But did we miss a trick (not of the hat kind) today...?

My own view is yes...

With nothing of note on the game, Birmingham manager Lee Bowyer (some wanted him here) played six youngsters to give them both exposure and experience and, in fairness, they got both against a solid and professional Bluebird XI

To some extent, the score didn't matter, although you can be sure Lee Bowyer would not have been happy with some of their defending

So what about the Bluebird logic...?

Mick McCarthy included four youngsters in his matchday squad and commendably included Rubin Colwill in his starting line-up

But what of the rest? Why were one or two others not given an opportunity similar to their Blues counterparts, if not from the start but from the point where the game was clearly won (2-0 or 3-0 depending on your view)?

For me, it was another missed opportunity and leaves me asking a big question ahead of the final game and the summer break ahead...

DESPITE PRESS BRIEFINGS TO THE CONTRARY, DOES MICK McCARTH ACTUALLY RATE/TRUST OUR YOUNGSTERS OR NOT?

On the evidence of not playing them in (effectively) 'nothing' games I think it's a valid question; particularly when we know the owner wants around one third of next season's squad to include our existing youngsters

Going to be an interesting summer ahead...


FINAL SCORE: BIRMINGHAM CITY 0 - 4 CARDIFF CITY
City scorer: Harry Wilson (3), Mark Harris
"The narcissist measures and judges but will not tolerate being judged or measured..."
User avatar
Sven
Moderator
 
Posts: 20380
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 pm

ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Advertisement

Advertisement
Login or Register to remove this ad.

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Igovernor » Sat May 01, 2021 4:18 pm

Chris I think he should have played the younsters to see what they were like in a champoinship game, even against a fairy untried Birmingham, as you say 6 youngsters changed from their normal team, a trick missed :thumbup: :ayatollah:
User avatar
Igovernor
Moderator
 
Posts: 5514
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:17 am

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM for me Sv HAVE WE MISSED A TR

Postby Sneggyblubird » Sat May 01, 2021 4:19 pm

Not for me Sven.I think the gaffer's got it about right.
User avatar
Sneggyblubird
 
Posts: 6277
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:22 am

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby RICK+CCFC » Sat May 01, 2021 4:23 pm

Had we played more of the youth and lost 4-0 questions would have been asked,,, it’s a fine balance of good judgment and an element of risk taking. Slowly but surly is my opinion.
User avatar
RICK+CCFC
 
Posts: 6417
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 4:29 pm

Said earlier that mick is not going to change only got to go by his comments regarding playing them he doesnt believe in playing a weakened team against opponents yet other teams did that today? Just cannot see anything changing next season regarding youngsters or the use of subs .....
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby worcester_ccfc » Sat May 01, 2021 4:30 pm

Fully on Mick's side with this and have been for weeks.

Many on here seem desperate for our academy players to be starting these games.

I don't agree with that approach, I think throwing them in to the team like that will do more damage than good.

They are being involved in the squad which is a good a step forward. They will learn an awful lot from that.

Colwill is a bit further along in his development, which is why he has been given the opportunity to play in games. He was involved with the first team squad a lot before he got his opportunity of playing plenty of minutes recently.

The others will be following the same path.

I think Mick is spot on with this approach.
Vote for your Man of the Match on this forum after every Cardiff City match, and your Player of the Month every month during the season :ayatollah:

Season ticket holder in Ninian 116 :bluebird:

@neddthomas on Twitter.

:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:
User avatar
worcester_ccfc
Admin
 
Posts: 15998
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:30 am

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 4:34 pm

RICK+CCFC wrote:Had we played more of the youth and lost 4-0 questions would have been asked,,, it’s a fine balance of good judgment and an element of risk taking. Slowly but surly is my opinion.




If he explains rationale for playing 3 youngsters no one is going to complain about the result as could expect a loss.... he took no risk at all as didn't play them except for 1..... what was the risk other than losing game boyer took the risk perhaps that says it all about the difference in managerial thinking.? One progressive one old school...
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Blueman39 » Sat May 01, 2021 4:39 pm

I think MM got it spot on today....strong finish to the season will give us more momentum for the start of next season .
Watched the game with a Birmingham fan who felt totally disillusioned with their team selection.....too many changes in one game .
Blueman39
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:57 am

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 4:43 pm

worcester_ccfc wrote:Fully on Mick's side with this and have been for weeks.

Many on here seem desperate for our academy players to be starting these games.

I don't agree with that approach, I think throwing them in to the team like that will do more damage than good.

They are being involved in the squad which is a good a step forward. They will learn an awful lot from that.

Colwill is a bit further along in his development, which is why he has been given the opportunity to play in games. He was involved with the first team squad a lot before he got his opportunity of playing plenty of minutes recently.

The others will be following the same path.

I think Mick is spot on with this approach.



Ned dont you think he would learn more by playing them that just sitting them on bench? After all no risk involved but lot to learn for next season! boyer obviously thought he had lot to learn and maybe thats where micks weakness is he is old school judging by his attitude to playing weaker side with youngsters compared to boyers progressive attitude let's play them and see how they perform under pressure especially in a nothing to lose game.... what did mick learn ? SFA really
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby DEANO » Sat May 01, 2021 4:44 pm

Spot on from mick today .build on the momentum.
DEANO
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:31 am

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby RICK+CCFC » Sat May 01, 2021 4:52 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
RICK+CCFC wrote:Had we played more of the youth and lost 4-0 questions would have been asked,,, it’s a fine balance of good judgment and an element of risk taking. Slowly but surly is my opinion.




If he explains rationale for playing 3 youngsters no one is going to complain about the result as could expect a loss.... he took no risk at all as didn't play them except for 1..... what was the risk other than losing game boyer took the risk perhaps that says it all about the difference in managerial thinking.? One progressive one old school...


Interesting, but if you were the Cardiff City manager today, what first eleven would you have picked, and why?
User avatar
RICK+CCFC
 
Posts: 6417
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 4:53 pm

DEANO wrote:Spot on from mick today .build on the momentum.



Yes build on a momentum without 3 loanee players and several other players potentially leavinghow does that work?
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Danny Says » Sat May 01, 2021 4:57 pm

Blueman39 wrote:I think MM got it spot on today....strong finish to the season will give us more momentum for the start of next season .
Watched the game with a Birmingham fan who felt totally disillusioned with their team selection.....too many changes in one game .

The latter is the point. We all want to see the kids given a game but not for the sake of it. Bowyers decision whilst commendable was just too extreme.
Not sure though about the former point. That starting X1 will be so different to our opening game next season.
Danny Says
 
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:22 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 5:00 pm

RICK+CCFC wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
RICK+CCFC wrote:Had we played more of the youth and lost 4-0 questions would have been asked,,, it’s a fine balance of good judgment and an element of risk taking. Slowly but surly is my opinion.




If he explains rationale for playing 3 youngsters no one is going to complain about the result as could expect a loss.... he took no risk at all as didn't play them except for 1..... what was the risk other than losing game boyer took the risk perhaps that says it all about the difference in managerial thinking.? One progressive one old school...


Interesting, but if you were the Cardiff City manager today, what first eleven would you have picked, and why?



Actually said to mrs should leave harry out and put harris in instead of Moore? But people go on about momentum can anyone explain how you keep momentum without 3 loanee players and probable loss of several other players for next season? In reality today was an opportunity to see how several youngsters performed in a no pressure game! What did mick learn today for next season absolutely nothing because he preferred to put Williams on instead of youngster when 3 up that made no sense whatsoever.
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Sam ReaN » Sat May 01, 2021 5:01 pm

I believe in the youngsters and so will McCarthy if it's true that he might need to sell a few 1st team players. Of course we have got a great bunch of young lads playing for us such as Mark Harris, Colwill, Brown and Bagan to name a few. So his hand will be somewhat forced if money is tight in the summer window. Of course no one wants this amongst the fans if Moore got sold there would be uproar, but I think we got Mark Harris there in case Moore does end up leaving. So really the benefits of bringing in youngsters from within are that its cheaper if we do nothing in the window and of course the youngsters have got huge potential if given the chances they deserve.

So the future is bright with our club even if a few players got sold, the only 1st team player we are confident on is Sean Morrison who McCarthy said he wants to build the team around him.
Check Out:
Subscribe To My YouTube Channel
The ReaN Show Series 1-4
Cardiff City Highlights On Bits From The Action
CardiffFanTV
User avatar
Sam ReaN
 
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 5:02 pm

Danny Says wrote:
Blueman39 wrote:I think MM got it spot on today....strong finish to the season will give us more momentum for the start of next season .
Watched the game with a Birmingham fan who felt totally disillusioned with their team selection.....too many changes in one game .

The latter is the point. We all want to see the kids given a game but not for the sake of it. Bowyers decision whilst commendable was just too extreme.
Not sure though about the former point. That starting X1 will be so different to our opening game next season.



My point exactly what momentum! no ojo no harry and several other players leaving only have a back 4 momentum and same worn out centre forward after 10 games.... :D
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Brezza » Sat May 01, 2021 5:04 pm

But the point is surely we were 3 v 0 up. That was the time for the youngsters. They must have been so disillusioned not to get on. If we are in a promotion race - is not the time. If it’s a relegation fight - it’s not the time. So when exactly us it time? Why the hell bring Johnny Williams on so late instead of a youngster.
Brezza
 
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:22 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby shadwell » Sat May 01, 2021 5:15 pm

How many of you would be complaining if MM had brought on a youngster instead of Williams at 87min, it would have been, should have been brought on earlier etc etc
Those youngsters will benefit hugely just
being in the 1st team squad
There is a huge difference between U23 and 1st team just look at Brum today
shadwell
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:20 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 5:23 pm

shadwell wrote:How many of you would be complaining if MM had brought on a youngster instead of Williams at 87min, it would have been, should have been brought on earlier etc etc
Those youngsters will benefit hugely just
being in the 1st team squad
There is a huge difference between U23 and 1st team just look at Brum today



Take out Harry's 3 brilliant goals and what was the difference between teams? Bet Bowyer learned a lot more than mick for simple reason mick didnt learn anything he didn't already know .... whilst Bowyer had 6 youngsters to look at under
match conditions .... completely different scenario sitting on bench and playing in game so guess youngsters learnt what it's like on bench.
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Danny Says » Sat May 01, 2021 5:24 pm

Brezza wrote:But the point is surely we were 3 v 0 up. That was the time for the youngsters. They must have been so disillusioned not to get on. If we are in a promotion race - is not the time. If it’s a relegation fight - it’s not the time. So when exactly us it time? Why the hell bring Johnny Williams on so late instead of a youngster.

With you there - that was bewildering. :roll:
Danny Says
 
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:22 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby skidemin » Sat May 01, 2021 5:27 pm

Danny Says wrote:
Blueman39 wrote:I think MM got it spot on today....strong finish to the season will give us more momentum for the start of next season .
Watched the game with a Birmingham fan who felt totally disillusioned with their team selection.....too many changes in one game .

The latter is the point. We all want to see the kids given a game but not for the sake of it. Bowyers decision whilst commendable was just too extreme.
Not sure though about the former point. That starting X1 will be so different to our opening game next season.




clubs change players every year but the bulk of the squad remains as will the momentum and attitude..
Bowyer learned nothing today, absolutely nothing...just threw a bunch of kids under a bus... boy did he get his evaluation of his squad wrong if he though they were anywhere near good enough to take on a decent championship team...
skidemin
 
Posts: 5417
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:45 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby FOOTSOLDIER » Sat May 01, 2021 5:30 pm

I welcomed MM as the new manager but long-term I don't think he's the answer. See what he can do next season but I have concerns he is too stuck in his ways and we need a manager open to different ideas and solutions. Hope he proves me wrong :bluescarf:
User avatar
FOOTSOLDIER
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:26 pm
Location: ABERDARE

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby RICK+CCFC » Sat May 01, 2021 5:35 pm

shadwell wrote:How many of you would be complaining if MM had brought on a youngster instead of Williams at 87min, it would have been, should have been brought on earlier etc etc
Those youngsters will benefit hugely just
being in the 1st team squad
There is a huge difference between U23 and 1st team just look at Brum today


This is exactly my mind set,,,, If, we were in one of the playoff positions, then fair enough. I don’t know, but it looks like Barnsley did exactly that today. Unless we’re that desperate, then the youngsters,,, depending on ability and skill, should be prepared and “bloodied” one by one.

I’ve asked the question earlier, but it wasn’t that long ago that the cries were that City wasn’t developing any new young talent for years and years. Now it’s “Give the youngsters a chance”,,,. Where have all these youngsters suddenly come from?
User avatar
RICK+CCFC
 
Posts: 6417
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby maccydee » Sat May 01, 2021 5:37 pm

What would they have learned from playing in a game with no fans vs 6 players they play at under 23 level?
maccydee
 
Posts: 8213
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Brize Norton, Oxfordshire

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby Barclay1 » Sat May 01, 2021 5:40 pm

I agree with Sven, that MM does not have the same view on the youngsters as Tan.

Warnock and Harris didn't rate them.

I have a feeling that MM is quietly managing a football club as a football club should managed and purely playing lip service to what the owner is demanding
Barclay1
 
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:04 am

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby skidemin » Sat May 01, 2021 5:42 pm

RICK+CCFC wrote:
shadwell wrote:How many of you would be complaining if MM had brought on a youngster instead of Williams at 87min, it would have been, should have been brought on earlier etc etc
Those youngsters will benefit hugely just
being in the 1st team squad
There is a huge difference between U23 and 1st team just look at Brum today


This is exactly my mind set,,,, If, we were in one of the playoff positions, then fair enough. I don’t know, but it looks like Barnsley did exactly that today. Unless we’re that desperate, then the youngsters,,, depending on ability and skill, should be prepared and “bloodied” one by one.

I’ve asked the question earlier, but it wasn’t that long ago that the cries were that City wasn’t developing any new young talent for years and years. Now it’s “Give the youngsters a chance”,,,. Where have all these youngsters suddenly come from?



there are conclusions being drawn by some that all these 20 odd year old kids are good enough , maybe 1 or 2 are but the potential car crash of chucking loads in at the same time was clear to see today....
is being given a chance in the first team actually playing with the first team or being chucked in a mix and match outfit along with half the boys you play under 23s with... ?
i think its the former...
skidemin
 
Posts: 5417
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:45 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 5:48 pm

skidemin wrote:
Danny Says wrote:
Blueman39 wrote:I think MM got it spot on today....strong finish to the season will give us more momentum for the start of next season .
Watched the game with a Birmingham fan who felt totally disillusioned with their team selection.....too many changes in one game .

The latter is the point. We all want to see the kids given a game but not for the sake of it. Bowyers decision whilst commendable was just too extreme.
Not sure though about the former point. That starting X1 will be so different to our opening game next season.




clubs change players every year but the bulk of the squad remains as will the momentum and attitude..
Bowyer learned nothing today, absolutely nothing...just threw a bunch of kids under a bus... boy did he get his evaluation of his squad wrong if he though they were anywhere near good enough to take on a decent championship team...




Take Harry a premier standard players 3 brilliant goals out of equation and what was the difference? Think the point is play them in a game of no importance see how react to real game tim what was to lose besides game? . dont think for one minute expect 4/5 youngsters to play together next season.... but getting valuable match time is better for their development than twiddling thumbs on bench while team is 3 up and see an old stager come on... Can you explain what was better a youngster or Williams coming on?
If Bowyer learned nothing must question is managerial abilities... but would have thought he learned more than mick did that's for sure...
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby skidemin » Sat May 01, 2021 6:13 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
skidemin wrote:
Danny Says wrote:
Blueman39 wrote:I think MM got it spot on today....strong finish to the season will give us more momentum for the start of next season .
Watched the game with a Birmingham fan who felt totally disillusioned with their team selection.....too many changes in one game .

The latter is the point. We all want to see the kids given a game but not for the sake of it. Bowyers decision whilst commendable was just too extreme.
Not sure though about the former point. That starting X1 will be so different to our opening game next season.




clubs change players every year but the bulk of the squad remains as will the momentum and attitude..
Bowyer learned nothing today, absolutely nothing...just threw a bunch of kids under a bus... boy did he get his evaluation of his squad wrong if he though they were anywhere near good enough to take on a decent championship team...




Take Harry a premier standard players 3 brilliant goals out of equation and what was the difference? Think the point is play them in a game of no importance see how react to real game tim what was to lose besides game? . dont think for one minute expect 4/5 youngsters to play together next season.... but getting valuable match time is better for their development than twiddling thumbs on bench while team is 3 up and see an old stager come on... Can you explain what was better a youngster or Williams coming on?
If Bowyer learned nothing must question is managerial abilities... but would have thought he learned more than mick did that's for sure...



yes Harry Wilson played.. maybe Bowyer should at least look at who they are up against.
skidemin
 
Posts: 5417
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:45 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby skidemin » Sat May 01, 2021 6:24 pm

Barclay1 wrote:I agree with Sven, that MM does not have the same view on the youngsters as Tan.

Warnock and Harris didn't rate them.

I have a feeling that MM is quietly managing a football club as a football club should managed and purely playing lip service to what the owner is demanding



:shock: experienced football managers might not think the same as Tan and Allan.... :shock:
skidemin
 
Posts: 5417
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:45 pm

Re: ANOTHER VIEW (v BIRMINGHAM): HAVE WE MISSED A TRICK?

Postby pembroke allan » Sat May 01, 2021 6:38 pm

skidemin wrote:
Barclay1 wrote:I agree with Sven, that MM does not have the same view on the youngsters as Tan.

Warnock and Harris didn't rate them.

I have a feeling that MM is quietly managing a football club as a football club should managed and purely playing lip service to what the owner is demanding



:shock: experienced football managers might not think the same as Tan and Allan.... :shock:


Wtf as tan got to do with mine or others opinion about playing youngsters in a meaningless game? So its your option that MM IS ignoring the 3 people who run ccfc and hes just sticking youngsters on bench for the fun of it? What a waste of money having an academy with players that a manager doesn't believe in playing but picks for the bench to please the owner ? May as well put tea lady there save on bonuses for being in 1st team squad. :thumbup:
User avatar
pembroke allan
 
Posts: 24543
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Cardiff

Next


Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 100 guests

Disclaimer :
The views and comments entered in these forums are personal and are not necessarily those of the management of this board.
The management of this board is not responsible for the content of any external internet sites.