BREAKING: DERBY COUNTY TAKEOVER COLLAPSES

Erik Alonso: Derby County's proposed takeover by Spanish businessman called off


Derby County's takeover by Spanish businessman Erik Alonso is off.

Alonso's No Limit Sports Limited company agreed a deal to buy the club on 7 April but has since been unable to complete the transaction.

It is the second failed takeover at Pride Park this year after Rams owner Mel Morris called off the sale of the club to Derventio Holdings in March.

Derby, managed by Wayne Rooney, avoided relegation from the Championship this season by a point.

However, on Tuesday the English Football League won part of an appeal against the club over some of its accounting policies, with a points penalty or fine possible.

Speaking after keeping the Rams up with a 3-3 final-day draw against relegation rivals Sheffield Wednesday, former Manchester United and England striker Rooney said the club needed clarity over the ownership.

Alonso previously had a short period working as an advisor at Wednesday and had said his eventual goal was to take Derby to the Champions League after agreeing to purchase the club.

Morris has been looking to sell Derby for a number of months having put in around £200m of his own money to try to help the team win promotion to the Premier League without success.

The Derby-born businessman took over the club in September 2015 and, although they reached the play-offs in three of his first four campaigns as owner, they were unable to reach the top flight.

A deal to sell the club to Derventio Holdings, who were effectively owned by Sheikh Khaled bin Saquer Zayed Al Nahyan, a cousin of Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour, was agreed in November but, after a period of inactivity on the purchase, Morris pulled out of the sale.

I think Rams fans could have a sense of relief about them over this decision.

Although this is the second collapsed takeover of Derby County this year, it is clear that if the club do not feel the deal is right for the future then they are happy to walk away from it.

Erik Alonso has been very upfront about his plans to buy Derby, refinancing Pride Park to push the sale through and investing that money in the team. But some of his other claims have caused alarm bells to ring among supporters.

Targeting the Premier League is a realistic ambition, getting them into the Champions League is not. His social media activity has also caused raised eyebrows.

What happens next is anyone's guess, but Derby are still a suitable target for anyone who has an interest in the business of football and it should be no surprise if chairman Mel Morris is already talking to other suitors.

On the final day of the Championship season, I watched their game on TV and our game on my computer.

Noted something that the Sky commentator said during their game, in terms of failed takeovers when talking about their current owner..


Once can be unfortunate, twice could be seen as being careless, but questions should seriously be asked after three times.

A lot of truth in that and that's why I'm not at all surprised this has fallen through.

Just another chancer trying to get time in the lime light

possible points deduction or fine coming

told to pay Keogh £2.3 mill in compo

and now their 3rd take over falls apart...

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

yes them horrible Venkys...having bought a debt ridden club 11 years ago are still there chucking millions in..... most recently £7 mill earlier this year while expecting to have to plough in millions more to cover wages..

Just another chancer trying to get time in the lime light

Dodgy owner dodgy buyer. It had the smell of what the Glazers did to Man Utd about it. Buy Derby with borrowed money promptly pass all the debt onto the club whilst paying yourself a shed load of money for running the club. Of course Derby aren't Man Utd and it would have probably ended in bankruptcy bu you then just walk away as its Derby who owe all the money.

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

yes them horrible Venkys...having bought a debt ridden club 11 years ago are still there chucking millions in..... most recently £7 mill earlier this year while expecting to have to plough in millions more to cover wages..

Yes and the fans love them as much as utd fans love the glaziers! As they say money cant buy you love.

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

yes them horrible Venkys...having bought a debt ridden club 11 years ago are still there chucking millions in..... most recently £7 mill earlier this year while expecting to have to plough in millions more to cover wages..

Yes and the fans love them as much as utd fans love the glaziers! As they say money cant buy you love.

the fans ? yeah mate im sure they got loads of fans that think owners who have paid off dents and chucked millions in are dodgy......

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

Just another chancer trying to get time in the lime light

Dodgy owner dodgy buyer. It had the smell of what the Glazers did to Man Utd about it. Buy Derby with borrowed money promptly pass all the debt onto the club whilst paying yourself a shed load of money for running the club. Of course Derby aren't Man Utd and it would have probably ended in bankruptcy bu you then just walk away as its Derby who owe all the money.

That’s what Sam did with us pretty much.

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

possible points deduction or fine coming

told to pay Keogh £2.3 mill in compo

and now their 3rd take over falls apart...

And from me

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

spot on we would be bouncing around the bottom 2 divisions or worse.... and to be frank i dont care if he borrowed the money because nobody else was going to....but borrowing is borrowing, not its crap if one fella does it then absolutely wonderful if another borrows 10 times as much... Dalman and Choo / are substitutes for the previous best guys... the ones that thought him changing colour was not such a bad thing...

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

spot on we would be bouncing around the bottom 2 divisions or worse.... and to be frank i dont care if he borrowed the money because nobody else was going to....but borrowing is borrowing, not its crap if one fella does it then absolutely wonderful if another borrows 10 times as much... Dalman and Choo / are substitutes for the previous best guys... the ones that thought him changing colour was not such a bad thing...

Cardiff city fans told him changing colour would be ok if aligned with significant investment. For a while most were content.

The way the debt is now is very different to how it was under Sam. Tan is 100% named on it. Solely responsible. He won’t be able to default. With Sam it was to Langstone. Ergo the court cases.

Plus (and people always miss this bit) the assets are significantly higher now than they were previously.

Not looking good for Derby.

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Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

spot on we would be bouncing around the bottom 2 divisions or worse.... and to be frank i dont care if he borrowed the money because nobody else was going to....but borrowing is borrowing, not its crap if one fella does it then absolutely wonderful if another borrows 10 times as much... Dalman and Choo / are substitutes for the previous best guys... the ones that thought him changing colour was not such a bad thing...

Cardiff city fans told him changing colour would be ok if aligned with significant investment. For a while most were content.

The way the debt is now is very different to how it was under Sam. Tan is 100% named on it. Solely responsible. He won’t be able to default. With Sam it was to Langstone. Ergo the court cases.

Plus (and people always miss this bit) the assets are significantly higher now than they were previously.

yes some Cardiff fans and also his advisors..... nobody actually wanted or liked red { well very few } shirts and merchandise sales fell of a cliff despite being promoted which in itself cost the club millions....
yes the club owe VT money... the money is owed
so not sure what your getting at...
should Sam have not borrowed ? because every club does/ has and will do and we certainly wouldnt be in the championship or be owned by VT right now if he had not .....
is it owners should not record their investments and losses as loans ?
or is it people owed money should just forget it ....

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

spot on we would be bouncing around the bottom 2 divisions or worse.... and to be frank i dont care if he borrowed the money because nobody else was going to....but borrowing is borrowing, not its crap if one fella does it then absolutely wonderful if another borrows 10 times as much... Dalman and Choo / are substitutes for the previous best guys... the ones that thought him changing colour was not such a bad thing...

Cardiff city fans told him changing colour would be ok if aligned with significant investment. For a while most were content.

The way the debt is now is very different to how it was under Sam. Tan is 100% named on it. Solely responsible. He won’t be able to default. With Sam it was to Langstone. Ergo the court cases.

Plus (and people always miss this bit) the assets are significantly higher now than they were previously.

yes some Cardiff fans and also his advisors..... nobody actually wanted or liked red { well very few } shirts and merchandise sales fell of a cliff despite being promoted which in itself cost the club millions....
yes the club owe VT money... the money is owed
so not sure what your getting at...
should Sam have not borrowed ? because every club does/ has and will do and we certainly wouldnt be in the championship or be owned by VT right now if he had not .....
is it owners should not record their investments and losses as loans ?
or is it people owed money should just forget it ....

Sam loaned money from banks which had to be paid back at high interest and which could cost us had we not paid it back. Hence Black Friday.

Tan loans us his money which he is converting to equity in the club.

Vastly different.

But you are right no Sam no Tan. No rollercoaster since the turn of the century.
I am a fan of Sam.

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

spot on we would be bouncing around the bottom 2 divisions or worse.... and to be frank i dont care if he borrowed the money because nobody else was going to....but borrowing is borrowing, not its crap if one fella does it then absolutely wonderful if another borrows 10 times as much... Dalman and Choo / are substitutes for the previous best guys... the ones that thought him changing colour was not such a bad thing...

Cardiff city fans told him changing colour would be ok if aligned with significant investment. For a while most were content.

The way the debt is now is very different to how it was under Sam. Tan is 100% named on it. Solely responsible. He won’t be able to default. With Sam it was to Langstone. Ergo the court cases.

Plus (and people always miss this bit) the assets are significantly higher now than they were previously.

yes some Cardiff fans and also his advisors..... nobody actually wanted or liked red { well very few } shirts and merchandise sales fell of a cliff despite being promoted which in itself cost the club millions....
yes the club owe VT money... the money is owed
so not sure what your getting at...
should Sam have not borrowed ? because every club does/ has and will do and we certainly wouldnt be in the championship or be owned by VT right now if he had not .....
is it owners should not record their investments and losses as loans ?
or is it people owed money should just forget it ....

Sam loaned money from banks which had to be paid back at high interest and which could cost us had we not paid it back. Hence Black Friday.

Tan loans us his money which he is converting to equity in the club.

Vastly different.

But you are right no Sam no Tan. No rollercoaster since the turn of the century.
I am a fan of Sam.

did you not want Sam to borrow that money but instead just tread water in div 4 ...? i did...id been wanting someone to come in and do it for decades....
you seem to be saying you enjoyed the rollercoaster , we wouldnt be where we are now without it but would have preferred to not have spent money.... which doesnt compute....

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

The two men are completely different entities so it is difficult to compare...

Sam created the 'modern' Cardiff City and his vision, enthusiasm and determination to build the club through its Youth Academy is undeniable to most

He did leave us with a lot of debt but he also put a lot of money in (not necessarily his own) that he was entitled to claim back after his tenure finished

Vincent Tan is a completely different kettle of fish; a money orientated man, who sees everything on a balance sheet

He has ploughed a lot of personal money into the club and that needs to be remembered, as it not only paid off the debt that was owed prior to his arrival but also supported the spending spree that saw his ownership take us to the Premier League for the first time and then repeat the process a few years later when outgoings were far in excess of incomings

As you rightly say, a lot of it has been transferred but you say that as if it's to his detriment, when the facts seem to show that he has taken back said debt on a personal basis, i.e. as Vincent Tan and not as Cardiff City plc

Surely, that has to be a positive as it stands, as it means the club do not owe that money and Vincent Tan is personally liable whether he stays or goes...?

I may have that wrong and I may soon be enlightened; but it seems to use that against the current owner misses the actual situation by some distance...

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

spot on we would be bouncing around the bottom 2 divisions or worse.... and to be frank i dont care if he borrowed the money because nobody else was going to....but borrowing is borrowing, not its crap if one fella does it then absolutely wonderful if another borrows 10 times as much... Dalman and Choo / are substitutes for the previous best guys... the ones that thought him changing colour was not such a bad thing...

Cardiff city fans told him changing colour would be ok if aligned with significant investment. For a while most were content.

The way the debt is now is very different to how it was under Sam. Tan is 100% named on it. Solely responsible. He won’t be able to default. With Sam it was to Langstone. Ergo the court cases.

Plus (and people always miss this bit) the assets are significantly higher now than they were previously.

yes some Cardiff fans and also his advisors..... nobody actually wanted or liked red { well very few } shirts and merchandise sales fell of a cliff despite being promoted which in itself cost the club millions....
yes the club owe VT money... the money is owed
so not sure what your getting at...
should Sam have not borrowed ? because every club does/ has and will do and we certainly wouldnt be in the championship or be owned by VT right now if he had not .....
is it owners should not record their investments and losses as loans ?
or is it people owed money should just forget it ....

Quote: "nobody actually wanted or liked red { well very few } shirts and merchandise sales fell of a cliff despite being promoted..."

Again, you're being selective with your words, as the truth was that not that many people (certainly not a majority) were truly bothered by the red, so long as the club remained upwardly mobile. In truth, the protests were relatively small and they soon fell away largely due to the bullying and/or dictatorial involvement of certain individuals at the time (something you allude to above)

As for falling shirt sales, I would also put that down to the abuse some people took for daring to wear them whilst following their team

This is not a question of what was right or wrong. I personally never attended any of the so-called protests but I was against the red and made my financial protest by not buying anything in that colour and by (honestly) not taking a 'free' scarf on that horrid night

This is more about getting it right and not painting abstract pictures...

Well said Sven, can’t complain with any of that.

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

The two men are completely different entities so it is difficult to compare...

Sam created the 'modern' Cardiff City and his vision, enthusiasm and determination to build the club through its Youth Academy is undeniable to most

He did leave us with a lot of debt but he also put a lot of money in (not necessarily his own) that he was entitled to claim back after his tenure finished

Vincent Tan is a completely different kettle of fish; a money orientated man, who sees everything on a balance sheet

He has ploughed a lot of personal money into the club and that needs to be remembered, as it not only paid off the debt that was owed prior to his arrival but also supported the spending spree that saw his ownership take us to the Premier League for the first time and then repeat the process a few years later when outgoings were far in excess of incomings

As you rightly say, a lot of it has been transferred but you say that as if it's to his detriment, when the facts seem to show that he has taken back said debt on a personal basis, i.e. as Vincent Tan and not as Cardiff City plc

Surely, that has to be a positive as it stands, as it means the club do not owe that money and Vincent Tan is personally liable whether he stays or goes...?

I may have that wrong and I may soon be enlightened; but it seems to use that against the current owner misses the actual situation by some distance...

no mate.... and im not anti Tan or anti loans.... my post is a reply to what i thought a biased post where whats good for the goose wasnt good enough for the gander....im not anti or pro either....but if your going to go on about people being payed to run the club...or debt it really should be applied equally....

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

The two men are completely different entities so it is difficult to compare...

Sam created the 'modern' Cardiff City and his vision, enthusiasm and determination to build the club through its Youth Academy is undeniable to most

He did leave us with a lot of debt but he also put a lot of money in (not necessarily his own) that he was entitled to claim back after his tenure finished

Vincent Tan is a completely different kettle of fish; a money orientated man, who sees everything on a balance sheet

He has ploughed a lot of personal money into the club and that needs to be remembered, as it not only paid off the debt that was owed prior to his arrival but also supported the spending spree that saw his ownership take us to the Premier League for the first time and then repeat the process a few years later when outgoings were far in excess of incomings

As you rightly say, a lot of it has been transferred but you say that as if it's to his detriment, when the facts seem to show that he has taken back said debt on a personal basis, i.e. as Vincent Tan and not as Cardiff City plc

Surely, that has to be a positive as it stands, as it means the club do not owe that money and Vincent Tan is personally liable whether he stays or goes...?

I may have that wrong and I may soon be enlightened; but it seems to use that against the current owner misses the actual situation by some distance...

no mate.... and im not anti Tan or anti loans.... my post is a reply to what i thought a biased post where whats good for the goose wasnt good enough for the gander....im not anti or pro either....but if your going to go on about people being payed to run the club...or debt it really should be applied equally....

I'm not having a go at you. I always read your posts with interest because you post well regardless of whether we will always agree or not

But you cannot reasonably compare the two on equal terms when it comed to 'debt' because their approach to it were polar opposites

For the record, I loved (most of) Sam's time here but I am not anti-Tan. Like you, I just want the best for our club; and for now (given the world situation) it is in relatively safe hands andxa lot better off than many around us, including a certain club that the Championship Play-offs are 'make or break'

Dodgy owner is an understatement? Latest whiz when journalists questioned his wealth he posted a video of his supposed luxury pad! It turns out it belonged to someone else as he took video off the internet..... thought I read why cant we have owner like him a little while ago?

Someone did say that. It made me laugh.

Tbh I would chuckle to myself if we got a new owner thats as dodgy as the venkies or him after whats been said on here?

Imagine we got an owner who borrowed the money to buy us, loaned more money to buy players then paid himself a wage to service that loan. Then when he finished at our club told us we had to pay the 28 million back. Threatened us with court and administration if he wasn’t paid. All the while says he loves the club.

Or we could have an owner who paid off the debts we were facing being wound up for, stabilised us, took us to the premier league for the first time in decades. Put his money in, never paid himself a wage, put his best guys in charge of running us, transferred a substantial amount of that investment into equity. Continues to subsidise the club during a pandemic including buying the best striker we have had in ten years. Lives in Malaysia and can’t get over much. But keeps paying the bills.

Which would we prefer?

VTs investment is loans from himself and his other businesses....yes we were being wound up but the debt wasnt paid off it was transferred to being a debt to him and added to... 200 i think is a bit more than 28.....??????????
and yes TRANSFERRED....it means moved from one place { debt } to another { equity } ..not written off....
best guys...... really ? and you dont think they get paid far more than Sam was ...
as for threats...they are just that and VT has made a few himself....and no doubt would go further than threats as would anyone that was owed money that was not forth coming...
or does VT one day walk away in this fairy tale happy smiling but with no money...
VT..has done lots of good here but so did Sam.

100% agree that Sam did loads of good. I have said so many times. Without Sam kickstarting us we would still likely be bouncing round the bottom divisions.

Yeah I think Dalman and Choo have been assets. They were employed in his group and came to work at Cardiff. Read Warnock’s book for his opinion of those gents.

spot on we would be bouncing around the bottom 2 divisions or worse.... and to be frank i dont care if he borrowed the money because nobody else was going to....but borrowing is borrowing, not its crap if one fella does it then absolutely wonderful if another borrows 10 times as much... Dalman and Choo / are substitutes for the previous best guys... the ones that thought him changing colour was not such a bad thing...

Cardiff city fans told him changing colour would be ok if aligned with significant investment. For a while most were content.

The way the debt is now is very different to how it was under Sam. Tan is 100% named on it. Solely responsible. He won’t be able to default. With Sam it was to Langstone. Ergo the court cases.

Plus (and people always miss this bit) the assets are significantly higher now than they were previously.

yes some Cardiff fans and also his advisors..... nobody actually wanted or liked red { well very few } shirts and merchandise sales fell of a cliff despite being promoted which in itself cost the club millions....
yes the club owe VT money... the money is owed
so not sure what your getting at...
should Sam have not borrowed ? because every club does/ has and will do and we certainly wouldnt be in the championship or be owned by VT right now if he had not .....
is it owners should not record their investments and losses as loans ?
or is it people owed money should just forget it ....

Quote: "nobody actually wanted or liked red { well very few } shirts and merchandise sales fell of a cliff despite being promoted..."

Again, you're being selective with your words, as the truth was that not that many people (certainly not a majority) were truly bothered by the red, so long as the club remained upwardly mobile. In truth, the protests were relatively small and they soon fell away largely due to the bullying and/or dictatorial involvement of certain individuals at the time (something you allude to above)

As for falling shirt sales, I would also put that down to the abuse some people took for daring to wear them whilst following their team

This is not a question of what was right or wrong. I personally never attended any of the so-called protests but I was against the red and made my financial protest by not buying anything in that colour and by (honestly) not taking a 'free' scarf on that horrid night

This is more about getting it right and not painting abstract pictures...

i was being selective blah blah...but...
merchandise sales off a cliff because 20k people were afraid apart from one { you } that was doing as i claimed and quietly protesting...
and i have zero idea how we are now blue with everyone being so not bothered....its a mystery...


i cant say youve been selective because youve been so contradictory... defo abstract though as your in denial of your very own thoughts.... which btw were inline with the feelings of most....

Ridsdale done his bit. He along with others on the board got the stadium built .
Sam saved us.Tan I would say got us promoted under Malky (not to many protests about Red that day) Probably that's when Tan should have sold us to an oil rich Arab.
If it wasn't for Sam we'd be Cardiff City AFC AFC.

Ridsdale done his bit. He along with others on the board got the stadium built .
Sam saved us.Tan I would say got us promoted under Malky (not to many protests about Red that day) Probably that's when Tan should have sold us to an oil rich Arab.
If it wasn't for Sam we'd be Cardiff City AFC AFC.

Yep...!

Nothing abstract in that...