Boris Johnson’s Announces Full Capacities But Will

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

Do you think we'll ever "get back to normal"? If so, what needs to happen before we do? When do you think that might be?

Timelines are a guessing game. There will never be a definite end to this, although eventually it will just fade away. We’re back to normal now - it’s just a different “normal”!

I’m all for re-opening things, but to do away with masks and social distancing because Boris has had enough is not sensible in my opinion. What harm is it to insist that people wear masks on public places or indoor public places which are extra crowded?

Exactly

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

Of course lockdowns work, if they were not imposed I dread to think how many more people would have died. People trying to justify why they should not be locked down and allowed to spread the virus. Just selfish

of course they work ...thats why our deaths are one of the highest per population in the world....as for selfish you are quite possibly the most selfish person on the planet...its all about you not getting covid as been from day 1...fck people dying from what would be avoidable 18 months ago... fck old people who have fied without seeing relatives...fck people losing their businesses.....

Totally agree with davids ( comments above)states. We know lockdown works but we
have to open up sometime. As Boris said if we don’t do it now when do we open up?

Why don’t we have figures and graphs of who is dying of covid now? Is it the elderly?
Youngsters? People who been jabbed once/twice?
I’m sure I read that this delta variant is mostly hitting youngsters, are they dying of it?

We have to open up and I for one cannot wait to up in Blackpool for the game

We do. All the data is online. Hospitalizations and deaths due to covid are low, despite rising cases. This is an indication that the vaccines are working. There is data suggesting that the people most seriously effected by covid are those who havnt been vaccinated. Lockdowns were never implemented to bring the number of cases down to zero. There were there to reduce the number of hospitalizations whilst the vaccines were rolled out. Its been shit but its worked.

All seems to be heading in the right direction, which is why we are not far off opening backup. Or at least england are. Who knows what dripford might have in plan! For me, the vaccines either work or they don't so can't see how they can justify not opening everything back up now that most people have been vaccinated.

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

Of course lockdowns work, if they were not imposed I dread to think how many more people would have died. People trying to justify why they should not be locked down and allowed to spread the virus. Just selfish

of course they work ...thats why our deaths are one of the highest per population in the world....as for selfish you are quite possibly the most selfish person on the planet...its all about you not getting covid as been from day 1...fck people dying from what would be avoidable 18 months ago... fck old people who have fied without seeing relatives...fck people losing their businesses.....

And that number would be significantly higher without the restrictions.

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

It seems pretty clear that if you lockdown everything that infections from covid will shrink but that the moment any restrictions are lifted cases will rise again. Are you advocating that we remain locked down forever in order to prevent as many people as possible from being infected?

Not at all, quite the opposite in fact. Considering deaths are currently in the single figures per day and hospitalisations are way down I don't see why lockdown needs to continue beyond the set end date. I don't agree with Johnson's "every restriction ends completely" approach for July 19th. I don't see any real need to rush people back to the offices where in a lot of cases WFH has been shown to be just as, if not more, productive as in the office. Why not allow the workers to stay at home if they want to? And I don't think telling everyone that the need to wear masks has ended is sensible. At this stage it's barely being enforced and people who don't want to wear it already aren't, why not just keep it as a soft restriction.
Unlike limited capacities and social distancing, WFH and masks aren't really negatively impacting anything so why not keep at it whilst we wait for the vaccination roll out to complete.

Are there any graphs available for the amount of people who have died directly or indirectly as a result of lockdown for reasons other than covid? Have SAGE or any of the other "modellers" given an estimate of how many people will die from undiagnosed or untreated illnesses over the next few years due to the obsession with covid infections to the exclusion of everything else?

The ONS has released the 10 leading causes of death on a month by month basis for July to December 2020 and January to May 2021.

July
August
September
October
November
December
January
February
march
April
May

Section 4 or 5 in each month compares the top 10 causes of deaths with the 5 year average. Obviously there's a lot of graphs to look through so that'll scare Skidemin off. But comparing the 5 year average we can see that in the majority of months, cause of deaths were lower than the 5 year average.
I'll attach 3 of the graphs just to give you an idea of what I mean but please do click the links to see for yourself. At the very least just to see whether I'm cherry picking the best data to suit my point.

Aug.png

Dec.png

Jan.png

As for future models, there very possibly could be some released but none that I can recall seeing.

What is the point of the wonder vaccine we were all promised would "set us free" when it's now becoming clear that it will do no such thing?

Isn't it? Compare where we are now to where we were a few months ago. Most of the hospitality industry is open, indoors and out. You're allowed to gather in groups and see your friends and family. There's no restrictions on travelling around the UK. Sporting events and concerts have been given the go ahead to have large crowds, in some cases full capacities. Whilst not completely back to normal we're a fair chunk of the way there and it's still early days.
The vaccination rollout has only really been going for half a year. It was never going to be "right you've had your jab, now you can do anything you like". There's still a decent chunk of the population who haven't had their first jab let alone their second and it was always going to take a while. Vaccinations are a form of herd immunity which I think if I recall for Covid was estimated to be around the 70% mark. Opening everything up too early before that threshold is reached would just mean more lockdowns at a later date.

When would you have "set us free"? March, when people in their 50's and 60's were still unvaccinated? Earlier or later than March?

Yes - lockdowns will always mean that the infection rate for covid will fall but at what cost? Do you think it's possible to eradicate covid forever? Like we've managed to get rid of the common cold and flu? That'll never happen.

No, not at all. But we can definitely reduce it to the same level of impact as the cold and flu

I am genuinely interested in how you feel life should be from now on - permanent lockdown? No point in vaccines - they don't appear to be "setting us free". If you were PM (or FM) at what point would you think it safe to not be in total lockdown - if ever?

As I've said, that's quite incorrect. Lockdowns have served their purpose and don't need to be extended and I think the vaccine rollout is going extremely well and is well on it's way "to setting us free". If I were PM I'd be perfectly happy for us to be out of total lockdown, which we have been for months.

Anyways, I think that's covered everything. Apologies if I did miss something

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

Of course lockdowns work, if they were not imposed I dread to think how many more people would have died. People trying to justify why they should not be locked down and allowed to spread the virus. Just selfish

of course they work ...thats why our deaths are one of the highest per population in the world....as for selfish you are quite possibly the most selfish person on the planet...its all about you not getting covid as been from day 1...fck people dying from what would be avoidable 18 months ago... fck old people who have fied without seeing relatives...fck people losing their businesses.....

What a load of crap you speak it is not about me getting covid but about, my family, friends and all people who are subjected to selfish thoughless people who do not give a rats arse whether they pass covid on or not these are the people who are selfish, if you cannot see that then you calling me selfish is like calling the
Kettle black.

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

you havent cleared anything up though..... youyve initially put up graphs re cases as some sort of proof of lockdowns working.... if these graphs proved anything of the sort youd be getting them 24/7 from the media /government...
yes after deaths and cases SKY ROCKETING { cases and deaths QUADRUPLED within a week after lockdown , and QUADRUPLED AGAIN.they then a few months later plateaued.... not sure many expected the virus to not at some point plateau as all things do ..
btw there is a saying...the proof of the pudding etc ..... well our deaths per million people are the highest of all the large countries { 20mill people or more } in the northern hemisphere , not just this but the other counties that locked down hardest followed similar pattern and are also right up there in the deaths per million group....
....yes of course lockdowns work
are graphs better to look at.......100% yes if they prove a point ...yours certainly did not as the measurements { amount of positive cases } were taken from hugely different amount of test samples.... of course results are going to be different with a million tests to what they are with 3k.... will add PHE did not produce that graph for idiots to draw the conclusions you just did...accessing data is indeed easy understanding it is too TRY AGAIN ...

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

Of course lockdowns work, if they were not imposed I dread to think how many more people would have died. People trying to justify why they should not be locked down and allowed to spread the virus. Just selfish

of course they work ...thats why our deaths are one of the highest per population in the world....as for selfish you are quite possibly the most selfish person on the planet...its all about you not getting covid as been from day 1...fck people dying from what would be avoidable 18 months ago... fck old people who have fied without seeing relatives...fck people losing their businesses.....

And that number would be significantly higher without the restrictions.

of course it would.....

Is his, the new norm.100000 cases a day.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... is-johnson

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

you havent cleared anything up though..... youyve initially put up graphs re cases as some sort of proof of lockdowns working.... if these graphs proved anything of the sort youd be getting them 24/7 from the media /government...
yes after deaths and cases SKY ROCKETING { cases and deaths QUADRUPLED within a week after lockdown , and QUADRUPLED AGAIN.they then a few months later plateaued.... not sure many expected the virus to not at some point plateau as all things do ..
btw there is a saying...the proof of the pudding etc ..... well our deaths per million people are the highest of all the large countries { 20mill people or more } in the northern hemisphere , not just this but the other counties that locked down hardest followed similar pattern and are also right up there in the deaths per million group....
....yes of course lockdowns work
are graphs better to look at.......100% yes if they prove a point ...yours certainly did not as the measurements { amount of positive cases } were taken from hugely different amount of test samples.... of course results are going to be different with a million tests to what they are with 3k.... will add PHE did not produce that graph for idiots to draw the conclusions you just did...accessing data is indeed easy understanding it is too TRY AGAIN ...

waw...

Is his, the new norm.100000 cases a day.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... is-johnson

indeed cases are on the u , i wonder what comes next....... A} best lockdown...lockdowns are the dogs bollox.. westcoast even has a graph that doesnt prove it....
B} open up and live with it.. because lockdowns did not work

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

you havent cleared anything up though..... youyve initially put up graphs re cases as some sort of proof of lockdowns working.... if these graphs proved anything of the sort youd be getting them 24/7 from the media /government...
yes after deaths and cases SKY ROCKETING { cases and deaths QUADRUPLED within a week after lockdown , and QUADRUPLED AGAIN.they then a few months later plateaued.... not sure many expected the virus to not at some point plateau as all things do ..
btw there is a saying...the proof of the pudding etc ..... well our deaths per million people are the highest of all the large countries { 20mill people or more } in the northern hemisphere , not just this but the other counties that locked down hardest followed similar pattern and are also right up there in the deaths per million group....
....yes of course lockdowns work
are graphs better to look at.......100% yes if they prove a point ...yours certainly did not as the measurements { amount of positive cases } were taken from hugely different amount of test samples.... of course results are going to be different with a million tests to what they are with 3k.... will add PHE did not produce that graph for idiots to draw the conclusions you just did...accessing data is indeed easy understanding it is too TRY AGAIN ...

waw...

i await borris, witty or whoever to produce these graphs as proof of lockdowns working....
we both know damn well they will not

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

how sure do they want to be.. the NHS was not swamped and did not come close... in fact the highest bed occupancy in 2020 was in the January prior to covid.....

So the lockdowns worked then?

did they...?
keep playing Borris { your hero } says......

Number of cases by date since testing began. Lockdown periods in red, partial lockdowns in light red:

Lockdown 1.png

I'm only going off of the England lockdown dates, but England makes up about 90% of the Covid cases in the UK so the trends will follow England's case data.

Lockdowns:
- 23rd March – 4th July
- 5th November – 2nd December
- 3rd December Tier system brought into effect.
- 6th January – 12th April.
- Hospitality allowed to open with outdoor seating only.
- 17th May. Hospitality allowed customers indoors.

And to compare with the above and dispel the arguments that Covid is only seasonal or that cases directly correlate with increased testing, number of daily tests carried out:

Testing 1.png

i know you love a list / link / graph but what point are you making here....it certainly doesnt prove that lockdowns worked even if your talking purely about covid and not throwing in the thousand and one negatives surrounding lockdowns

I thought it was fairly obvious what point I was trying to get across. You think lockdowns don't work yet every time a full lockdown was introduced case numbers quickly plateaued before falling. Then, when lockdowns started easing case numbers rose again. Rinse repeat.
And as I said, the second graph is to show that Covid isn't just seasonal or simply down to number of tests done. Cases are much higher now in July than in March despite testing being much higher in March and the weather now being less suitable for spreading a respiratory virus. Likewise, many more cases in January with much less testing than currently.

So now we've cleared that up. Why do you think those graphs don't prove lockdowns worked in reducing Covid cases and slowing the spread?

And yes I do enjoy a good list/link/graph/etc. Usually it holds a bit more weight than a screenshot off facebook, a "my mate told me..." or, as we usually see, having nothing at all.
The data is easily accessible for anyone to look at and personally I think it's a better method of communicating a point than babbling in confusing half sentences filled with full stops and other nonsense.

you havent cleared anything up though..... youyve initially put up graphs re cases as some sort of proof of lockdowns working.... if these graphs proved anything of the sort youd be getting them 24/7 from the media /government...
yes after deaths and cases SKY ROCKETING { cases and deaths QUADRUPLED within a week after lockdown , and QUADRUPLED AGAIN.they then a few months later plateaued.... not sure many expected the virus to not at some point plateau as all things do ..
btw there is a saying...the proof of the pudding etc ..... well our deaths per million people are the highest of all the large countries { 20mill people or more } in the northern hemisphere , not just this but the other counties that locked down hardest followed similar pattern and are also right up there in the deaths per million group....
....yes of course lockdowns work
are graphs better to look at.......100% yes if they prove a point ...yours certainly did not as the measurements { amount of positive cases } were taken from hugely different amount of test samples.... of course results are going to be different with a million tests to what they are with 3k.... will add PHE did not produce that graph for idiots to draw the conclusions you just did...accessing data is indeed easy understanding it is too TRY AGAIN ...

waw...

i await borris, witty or whoever to produce these graphs as proof of lockdowns working....
we both know damn well they will not

And I await you to post any shred of evidence that lockdowns don't work. There is a first time for everything after all

Lockdowns, vaccines or various restrictions ALL have a effect on new infections to a greater or lesser extent but in my opinion the biggest effect on the consequence of being infected with the virus is the vaccines.

Since before the vaccine roll out started in the UK we have been told that the greatest benefit will be the effect they have on the numbers admitted to hospital and those who develop serious disease and sadly die. I have not heard from any politician or scientist that the vaccines will prevent you from catching the virus but they will reduce the risk of serious disease but not in 100% of cases.

Sadly covid is with us and will be forever so with the vaccines having such a significant effect on hospitalisations and deaths there was always going to come a time when a decision to return to "Normality" was going to be made. July 19th provides the date when ALL over 40's will be double dosed or have the maximum protection provided by the vaccines so surely it makes sense to move forward. The PM is not saying don't wear a face mask in crowded indoor areas he is leaving that to the individual and I think many people will continue to do so. Also after July 19th there will be a 6 week circuit breaker that the summer school holidays will provide.

The biggest thing that resonated with me yesterday was the narrative from the PM has changed and gone are the days of politicians saying every death is a tragedy and we mourn ever loss, now the narrative is there WILL be more infections, there WILL be more hospitalisations and there WILL be more deaths.

To me the PM was saying yesterday that science has done ALL that it can and it's time we learn to live with this virus. No doubt he is rolling the dice here but by the time schools return in September ALL adults in the UK will have had both doses.
That will put the UK in the best possible place that the vaccines can provide, let's hope it's enough.

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

Do you think we'll ever "get back to normal"? If so, what needs to happen before we do? When do you think that might be?

Timelines are a guessing game. There will never be a definite end to this, although eventually it will just fade away. We’re back to normal now - it’s just a different “normal”!

I’m all for re-opening things, but to do away with masks and social distancing because Boris has had enough is not sensible in my opinion. What harm is it to insist that people wear masks on public places or indoor public places which are extra crowded?

I suppose the harm is the "insisting" part.

If people want the comfort of wearing them and they feel that they offer the protection that enables the wearer to feel safe they should absolutely be able to wear them.

But if people don't want to wear them they should be free to not wear them without being vilified by those who choose to wear them.

Lockdowns, vaccines or various restrictions ALL have a effect on new infections to a greater or lesser extent but in my opinion the biggest effect on the consequence of being infected with the virus is the vaccines.

Since before the vaccine roll out started in the UK we have been told that the greatest benefit will be the effect they have on the numbers admitted to hospital and those who develop serious disease and sadly die. I have not heard from any politician or scientist that the vaccines will prevent you from catching the virus but they will reduce the risk of serious disease but not in 100% of cases.

Sadly covid is with us and will be forever so with the vaccines having such a significant effect on hospitalisations and deaths there was always going to come a time when a decision to return to "Normality" was going to be made. July 19th provides the date when ALL over 40's will be double dosed or have the maximum protection provided by the vaccines so surely it makes sense to move forward. The PM is not saying don't wear a face mask in crowded indoor areas he is leaving that to the individual and I think many people will continue to do so. Also after July 19th there will be a 6 week circuit breaker that the summer school holidays will provide.

The biggest thing that resonated with me yesterday was the narrative from the PM has changed and gone are the days of politicians saying every death is a tragedy and we mourn ever loss, now the narrative is there WILL be more infections, there WILL be more hospitalisations and there WILL be more deaths.

To me the PM was saying yesterday that science has done ALL that it can and it's time we learn to live with this virus. No doubt he is rolling the dice here but by the time schools return in September ALL adults in the UK will have had both doses.
That will put the UK in the best possible place that the vaccines can provide, let's hope it's enough.

Unfortunately these rules will not apply here in the Democratic Republic Of Drakeford

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

Do you think we'll ever "get back to normal"? If so, what needs to happen before we do? When do you think that might be?

Timelines are a guessing game. There will never be a definite end to this, although eventually it will just fade away. We’re back to normal now - it’s just a different “normal”!

I’m all for re-opening things, but to do away with masks and social distancing because Boris has had enough is not sensible in my opinion. What harm is it to insist that people wear masks on public places or indoor public places which are extra crowded?

Exactly

So when I’m on an empty train from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth I have to wear a mask even though no one else on the train!! There are people living outside big towns/cities and public transport is not rammed.
So why should I wear a mask? If I was in London on the tube and it was packed I probably would wear a mask, should be individuals choice and circumstances.

Lockdowns, vaccines or various restrictions ALL have a effect on new infections to a greater or lesser extent but in my opinion the biggest effect on the consequence of being infected with the virus is the vaccines.

Since before the vaccine roll out started in the UK we have been told that the greatest benefit will be the effect they have on the numbers admitted to hospital and those who develop serious disease and sadly die. I have not heard from any politician or scientist that the vaccines will prevent you from catching the virus but they will reduce the risk of serious disease but not in 100% of cases.

Sadly covid is with us and will be forever so with the vaccines having such a significant effect on hospitalisations and deaths there was always going to come a time when a decision to return to "Normality" was going to be made. July 19th provides the date when ALL over 40's will be double dosed or have the maximum protection provided by the vaccines so surely it makes sense to move forward. The PM is not saying don't wear a face mask in crowded indoor areas he is leaving that to the individual and I think many people will continue to do so. Also after July 19th there will be a 6 week circuit breaker that the summer school holidays will provide.

The biggest thing that resonated with me yesterday was the narrative from the PM has changed and gone are the days of politicians saying every death is a tragedy and we mourn ever loss, now the narrative is there WILL be more infections, there WILL be more hospitalisations and there WILL be more deaths.

To me the PM was saying yesterday that science has done ALL that it can and it's time we learn to live with this virus. No doubt he is rolling the dice here but by the time schools return in September ALL adults in the UK will have had both doses.
That will put the UK in the best possible place that the vaccines can provide, let's hope it's enough.

Unfortunately these rules will not apply here in the Democratic Republic Of Drakeford

We have come to end of restrictions and most know it (except drakeford) vaccine is a permanent solution and that's reached enough people to break cycle of deaths.ect ? Lockdown worked to stop spread and that's run its course ... if people think lockdown didn't work simply use the equation if one person as covid put him in room with no contact no one else gets covid ... put same person in a crowded room and untold numbers of people will catch covid it's that simple...

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

Do you think we'll ever "get back to normal"? If so, what needs to happen before we do? When do you think that might be?

Timelines are a guessing game. There will never be a definite end to this, although eventually it will just fade away. We’re back to normal now - it’s just a different “normal”!

I’m all for re-opening things, but to do away with masks and social distancing because Boris has had enough is not sensible in my opinion. What harm is it to insist that people wear masks on public places or indoor public places which are extra crowded?

Exactly

So when I’m on an empty train from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth I have to wear a mask even though no one else on the train!! There are people living outside big towns/cities and public transport is not rammed.
So why should I wear a mask? If I was in London on the tube and it was packed I probably would wear a mask, should be individuals choice and circumstances.

Is it your personal train? Love to know where you catch am empty train so can take photo for prosterity.... common sense says train carriage empty no need to wear one while its empty... but do think need a coupl more months if wearing masks inside places just to get maximum vaccination done before winter problems accure..

Don’t worry about it. Boris has jumped the gun over this and will have to backtrack. I’d be very surprised if we reach the new season before restrictions of some sort have to be re-imposed. At the moment, the number of cases is doubling every 9 days which means at some point there will be restrictions put on, even if it isn’t a full lockdown. This will happen until they are sure that the NHS isn’t going to be swamped.

Mark Drakeford is just being sensible, not promising something which he really has no control over.

I really want to get back to live football, but I think we have some way to go yet before we get anything like back to normal.

And if we do go back, it’s going to be vaccinated season ticket holders only for a while.

Do you think we'll ever "get back to normal"? If so, what needs to happen before we do? When do you think that might be?

Timelines are a guessing game. There will never be a definite end to this, although eventually it will just fade away. We’re back to normal now - it’s just a different “normal”!

I’m all for re-opening things, but to do away with masks and social distancing because Boris has had enough is not sensible in my opinion. What harm is it to insist that people wear masks on public places or indoor public places which are extra crowded?

Exactly

So when I’m on an empty train from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth I have to wear a mask even though no one else on the train!! There are people living outside big towns/cities and public transport is not rammed.
So why should I wear a mask? If I was in London on the tube and it was packed I probably would wear a mask, should be individuals choice and circumstances.

Is it your personal train? Love to know where you catch am empty train so can take photo for prosterity.... common sense says train carriage empty no need to wear one while its empty... but do think need a coupl more months if wearing masks inside places just to get maximum vaccination done before winter problems accure..

When we’re on our way back from Blackpool on the Sunday night after City play up there, I’ll post a video for you to see how empty the train will be. When you state common sense by not wearing a mask on an empty train, are you stating I should break the law by not wearing a mask with all the CCTV in the train.. hhmmmm
Don’t want to be breaking the law..

westcoast

proof indeed ....considering the huge negative effects of lockdowns including avoidable deaths dont you think the onus of proof should lie with those who imposed the lockdowns and those that supported them. ?
your graphs by no stretch of the imagination prove any such thing...infact what they do show is that 90% of covid deaths occurred during lockdown and that both cases and deaths shot up ... as it happens there were almost identical spikes after lockdown in other countries ..
the proof of them working ? ....well its all zero sum.. if figures go down they work , but if numbers go up { which they did in spades } lockdowns have also worked as it would have been worse { there is no evidence of this unless you think some shocking figures regarding how many deaths there have been is proof of something working } ....oh and they plateaued and fell ,yep thats what has happened with every other epidemic without the silver bullet lockdowns...
seems to me there are people that would claim these as working even if our numbers were double or treble... no matter how bad , and they are as bad as it gets already ..lockdowns worked... say it enough and you believe it...
yes mate the data is easily accessible and our numbers are piss poor....
going forward our cases are once again shooting up.... are we locking down or is it a case of we have to live with it..... its the later....and should have been the later all along... god knows how many human sacrifices some people want to make...but its been enough already just because the media do not put lge tables up do not think its not happened and is still happening....

by davids

I suppose the harm is the "insisting" part.

If people want the comfort of wearing them and they feel that they offer the protection that enables the wearer to feel safe they should absolutely be able to wear them.

But if people don't want to wear them they should be free to not wear them without being vilified by those who choose to wear them.
davids

Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:16 pm

Wearing a mask is not to make the wearer feel safer, but to help prevent the wearer from spreading the infection to others, and particularly in closed spaces such as a train, a bus, or a shop. That is why the transport unions are against this proposal. I really don't like wearing a mask, particularly when wearing glasses in a supermarket as they get steamed up, but would not want to work in a closed space if people don't have to wear their masks there.

You would only need one person without a mask in those places for the infection to spread like a wildfire.

And that number would be significantly higher without the restrictions.[/quote]


of course it would.....[/quote]

A virus is transmitted through social interaction. A lockdown massively reduces social contact. So how have the lockdowns not reduced the rate of transmission/number of people with covid then?

And that number would be significantly higher without the restrictions.

of course it would.....[/quote]

A virus is transmitted through social interaction. A lockdown massively reduces social contact. So how have the lockdowns not reduced the rate of transmission/number of people with covid then?[/quote]


Another interesting point is flu deaths non existent last winter why? Because no interaction with the masses because they were kept indoors.... cannot understand how anyone can think that lockdown didn't reduce infection rates?

And that number would be significantly higher without the restrictions.

of course it would.....

A virus is transmitted through social interaction. A lockdown massively reduces social contact. So how have the lockdowns not reduced the rate of transmission/number of people with covid then?[/quote]


Another interesting point is flu deaths non existent last winter why? Because no interaction with the masses because they were kept indoors.... cannot understand how anyone can think that lockdown didn't reduce infection rates?[/quote]

I dont get it either. If I can't go to the pub then I cant catch/spread the virus. Nor can the millions of other people who go to the pub, nightclubs, cinemas, offices etc. Still waiting for an answer as to how this has no influence on infection rates....

And that number would be significantly higher without the restrictions.

of course it would.....

A virus is transmitted through social interaction. A lockdown massively reduces social contact. So how have the lockdowns not reduced the rate of transmission/number of people with covid then?

Another interesting point is flu deaths non existent last winter why? Because no interaction with the masses because they were kept indoors.... cannot understand how anyone can think that lockdown didn't reduce infection rates?[/quote]

I dont get it either. If I can't go to the pub then I cant catch/spread the virus. Nor can the millions of other people who go to the pub, nightclubs, cinemas, offices etc. Still waiting for an answer as to how this has no influence on infection rates....[/quote]



Same goes for vaccines? Whilst theres a risk and it doesnt prevent covid it's no coincidence that with a majority of Wales vaccinated once or twice there's only 4 deaths in a month..... the big question though? Is the whole world in on the conspiracy of covid..

According to Reuters, the UK now has the highest daily rate of new infections in Europe. This has come about following the Government's decision to delay closing the border with India allowing the Indian or delta variant to flood into the UK.

The news on tv has suggested that in the light of these rapidly worsening figures some of the European holiday destinations may now block British tourists from entering their countries.

Apparently, the rates for England are the highest in four months.